Villainous Competition XLII: Caine?!

[mattie_p]

I provided some constructive feedback on one of these builds as it was taking shape. I feel that disqualifies me, even if I had the time to invest.

[jdizzlean]

still not even a hint of ajudge... call and move on, or wait longer?

[mattie_p]

I'll do something this weekend for you. So there's a hint. I barely remember which build I gave feedback to anyway.

[Beni-Kujaku]

still not even a hint of ajudge... call and move on, or wait longer?

For 4 builds, I should be able to do it this week-end.

[loky1109]

It's good news!

I barely remember which build I gave feedback to anyway.

You deliberately were talking pause. )))

[Beni-Kujaku]

Judge, judge, judge your builds, gently down the stream
Merrily, merrily, merrily d&d's just a dream

Spoiler: Blackleaf the Brutal: 13.5

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Originality: 2.5: Your feats, and generally your classes, are as bland as can be (except maybe the FotF dip), but the concept of it is extremely unique. Animating trees then possessing them infinitely without ever exposing yourself is pretty interesting.

Elegance: 4.5: Almost nothing is out of place, and your goal is very apparent in the build. This is very nice. The barbarian dip is a bit inelegant, but nothing awful. Plus, the build is very thematic. Nice.

Power and Competence: 2: Let's be honest, this will work against NPCs and villagers, but PCs will make short work of you. 2 trees against a level 10+ party will not do much, even if one is raging. And since it takes you a full-round to animate then enter a new tree, a PC party will have time to hack you down before you can overwhelm them. Also, they will find a way to attack you when you try to jump from one tree to another, if only by readying an attack action. There's no real mechanical combo here.

Memorable Villainy: 4.5: Now that's a fight I can see happening in a campaign. Some suspense, a bit of a puzzle fight, some reusability if they don't understand how to exorcize the ghost... The brutal has everything. Maybe have a better scaling power and it would be perfect.

Total: 13.5 There are a lot of good things here, and it would make for a really good fight/chapter of a campaign. I'm not sure it can keep up at high level against a party of its CR, though.

Spoiler: One Paw Cat: 8.75

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Those damned old men! We can never trust them!

Originality: 3.25: A rakshasa with vow of poverty is definitely... original (but see below). And Forsaker is always welcome. Warshaper is overused, and most of your feats are staples (except maybe Stormguard warrior).

Elegance: 1: Using the infinite Warshaper reading is nonsense and everybody knows it. Using SS rituals to change your subtype only to gain more power with next to no fluff justification is not something that I like either. And no less than 4 dips in the build. Not ideal.

Competence/Power: 2: Okay, so. You are Lawful Evil. The [Good] subtype allows you to take feats that require Good alignment, but Exalted feats do not require Good alignment. They require exalted status, which can only be acquired by good deeds. Bluff doesn't change anything to that. Even if you somehow get these Vow feats, you'll lose them as soon as you do an evil deed. Like, I don't know, plotting the demise of a paladin and their party. You're practically immune to spells allowing spell resistance (the rakshasa alone already kind of was, and with Forsaker, it becomes almost overkill), but lose your own spellcasting, and have almost no mobility option except your natural 40ft speed. Any party with a level 5 wizard will just kite you with Haste. Or BFC you. You'll have a hard time breaking a simple wall of stone. Forsaker is probably more of a detriment than anything, and most of your tricks outside your spellcasting require you to give up some of your attacks which, except if you really go the "warshaper gives infinite attacks", will be a problem for your damage output. And if you do go the infinite attack interpretation, there's no point in increasing your to-hit.

Memorable Villainy: 2.5 It's always nice to have some simple quirks to your villains. "Impassable spell resistance" is one such trick, as is "death of a thousand claw cuts". So that's interesting. But the fact that you're changing your focus completely for the final fight, from spellcaster to heavy-hitter, or the fact that you have no apparent motivation ("revenge for taking my stuff" doesn't make for a really interesting storyline) make OPC a not so good villain in my opinion. Also your fight is not that different from a regular rakshasa early on, and becomes even more bland in the late game.

Total: 8.75 This is not really the good comp for exalted feats (some may argue no comp is a good comp for VoP). And if you do get VoP, you have to have some spellcasting to make up for the lost versatility. Also saying that Forsaker and Tomes should stack because the opposite is dysfunctional while arguing that Warshapers give you as many attacks as you want because it's badly written is a level of hypocrisy I can't get behind.

Spoiler: Tomas Stone: 12

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The effigy is so mindless that it doesn't even have a tactics per level!

Originality: 4: Using effigy to remove every class levels and only leave the animal's hit dice while keeping the fighter feats on a lycanthrope is a very unique idea, and I can't not reward it. Effigy itself is not often seen, neither is corrupt creature. You have my attention.

Elegance: 3.5 It's a bit messy, and the reading that you keep your fighter bonus feats is questionable, but apart from that, this is pretty focused, and we can see where you're going.

Power and Competence: 3 +1 bonus for how much you stuck to te theme. The effigy's whole point is unarmed combat. However, losing all your fighter HD hits pretty hard, since you don't lose CR accordingly. You're still a construct legendary tiger with fighter feats, which can be devastating if you can place a charge.

Memorable Villainy: 1.5: This is not really a villain. It's mindless and can't plot the demise of the heroes. It can kill people but not hate them. No villain would accept that in their club.

Total: 12: I liked a lot (maybe a bit too much) the main concept of only leaving the tiger's HD while keeping the Fighter feats. Surprisingly, a similar tactic might be more advantageous in IC than here, since you still increased your CR.

Spoiler: thdd... stpd... That one spell weaver: 12.5

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They always say whatever a martial artist can do, a spellcaster can do it better. Never has it been truer.

Originality: 2.5: Using the rules of the competition to get more caster levels is pretty expected. Using spellcasting to get as many combat feats and then just beating your opponent down with your frail spell weaver arms... is not. The specific feats you took are not that original either.

Elegance: 3: The build itself is extremely simple. Just advance spell weaver as much as possible to take advantage of "Monstrous Humanoid HD=1/3 CR", then take a few levels to improve your strikes. Not much room for inelegance. It's just that there are a few things that you don't seem to really use very much. Residual Metamagic doesn't help you at all since the only spell that you couldn't persist that Residual allows you to is Veil of Undeath, which is already 10 min/level (or 5 hours, even of you don't extend it). Same with the monk level, which is a bit superfluous since it mostly gives you feats you could already take with Heroics/Mirror Move.

Competence/Power: 1.75 -> 4 Of this, 2 point is penalty because your build relies on Simulacrum and Summon Monster to make use of your main tactics, and has many other spells known that are clearly not buffing or debuffing (Stasis clone? Transmute Rock to Steel? Summon Monster VII!?). Apart from that, you're a level 30 spellcaster. There's not much more to it than that. That's solid. Using spellcasting mostly to get combat feats that you may have gotten otherwise by simply taking fighter levels is obviously not the most optimized way to use it (not counting the fact that you're not really using your 8 arms to cast multiple spells in combat), but the result is very powerful with a lot of options. The only real problem I see is that you have to get close to use your full combo (Knock down only works in melee, so Great throw doesn't trigger if you're not close to the opponent), and your mobility is a tiny bit lacking (I would have liked Haste instead of Dispel Magic). Also, Heroics can't be persisted, so if the DM doesn't allow to Mirror Move a lot of your feats, your build struggles a lot to get online (another -0.5 penalty). Removing most of the penalty because of judge ruling, and increasing the score a bit due to disputes


Memorable Villainy: 3 The concept is pretty nice, I like the whole "master of all martial arts because they copied the style of many masters" thing. However, there isn't much lore or personality to it. There was something with the Astral Plane going on at the beginning but nothing came of it. I would have liked to see something made of it (even though it would have been difficult with the impossibility to use Plane Shift. But having a villain having a lair in the Astral Plane using the timelessness to have Mirror Move last forever and slowly gain all the feats of martial artists coming to fight them would be pretty interesting.

Total: 10.25-> 12.5 This is really the incarnation of how casters can do anything, but it's really only got one trick that works questionably.

Have a good read!

[jdizzlean]

⟨ ǂʃǂǃǃǀǁǁɕʃ ⟩. Disputes.

Hello, Beni! I glad to see your judging! Thank you very much!

Spoiler: Disputes

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Competence/Power: 1.75 Of this, 2 point is penalty because your build relies on Simulacrum and Summon Monster to make use of your main tactics, and has many other spells known that are clearly not buffing or debuffing (Stasis clone? Transmute Rock to Steel? Summon Monster VII!?).

I think this should be in Elegance part. But anyway. I have disagreements.

Stasis clone have been using strongly outside battle, I don't think this is count.
Transmute Rock to Steel. Yes, you are right. But what did I write in the entry?

Plus he can prepare a battlefield with combo Transmute Rock to Steel and Sirellyn's Superior Magnetism and fight right above this place, but I am not sure if it would be a violation against “only buffs or debuffs” restriction or not. And if you think it is - don’t mind.

I think there are no any Limitations to only has spell in known.

Summon Monster and Simulacrum. I asked chair about this:

You wrote "any entry utilizing spellcasting/psionics can ONLY use buffs or debuffs".
Would it be against spirit of the rules use summons outside of fight for taking buffs through it?

And answer was: "No."

I'm requesting confirmation from chair.

using summons for buffing/debuffing seemed entirely within the context of the restriction's spirit to me, and frankly i thought was a neat way to go about it -- jdizzlean

Residual Metamagic doesn't help you at all since the only spell that you couldn't persist that Residual allows you to is Veil of Undeath, which is already 10 min/level (or 5 hours, even of you don't extend it).

I use Residual Metamagic for slot economy.

2. Extended Summon Monster VII (9th lvl slot) - Celestial Baleen Whale/Celestial elephant;
3. Extended Summon Monster VII (7th lvl slot via Residual Magic) - Ferrumach;
4. Extended Power Leech on Ferrumach (7th lvl slot);
5. Extended Power Leech on Celestial Baleen Whale (5th lvl slot via Residual Magic);

Yes, I can do it without RM, but extra 9th lvl slot never is excess.

the only spell that you couldn't persist that Residual allows you to is Veil of Undeath, which is already 10 min/level

And how RM can help me if I for some reasons want persist Veil of Undeath (I don't want this at all, I even take Dispel Magic in order to end this spell early, but...)? O_o

Same with the monk level, which is a bit superfluous since it mostly gives you feats you could already take with Heroics/Mirror Move.

I take Int to AC (+17) from monk, too. I'd like to take more Monstrous Humanoid's HD, but them unfortunately ended. (((
And if I can't copy Improved Grapple with Mirror Move monk isn't unnecessary.

not counting the fact that you're not really using your 8 arms to cast multiple spells in combat

If all goes good - of course I don't. But if somebody will dispel my buffs... Oh, yes, I’ll gonna use my arms to cast multiple spells simultaneously.

Knock down only works in melee, so Great throw doesn't trigger if you're not close to the opponent

I don't see problems.

Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee

The subject gestures as if making a melee attack, but the result of the attack affects a target within range.

The subject uses its normal melee attack bonuses and deals damage normally if it hits

I see regular melee attacks. Yes they hit far away, but in other respects nothing changes.

and your mobility is a tiny bit lacking

Sorry, what? I can walk on air. I have Teleport, Earth Glide, Shadow Hand teleportation maneuvers, and Plane Shift SLA. Is this lacking of mobility? Well, I don't know what is mobility.
Hey! I can take Mobility via Heroics and Mirror Move, it's fighter feat, too! ;)

Also, Heroics can't be persisted

Oh. We have old, old a bunch of debate here, but I agree with your view. My bad.
But I still can Extend Heroics. Ten hours is something.
And I really need only Improved Grapple (I have from Monk) and Martial Stance. I think I can afford one-two 4th level slots.

[Beni-Kujaku]

About how it should be elegance penalty instead of power: in fact this should be Use of SI. However, this is not a category in this competition, and the description of the Power category mentions "Can it do what the concept asks of it?". I feel like the "concept" represents the restrictions on the builds

Stasis clone have been using strongly outside battle, I don't think this is count.
Transmute Rock to Steel. Yes, you are right. But what did I write in the entry?

I see no reason why you could be able to use non-(de)buff spells outside combat. The restriction was on your spellcasting in general, and Stasis Clone is definitely not it.

using summons for buffing/debuffing seemed entirely within the context of the restriction's spirit to me, and frankly i thought was a neat way to go about it -- jdizzlean

Oh, ok. +1.5

I use Residual Metamagic for slot economy.
And how RM can help me if I for some reasons want persist Veil of Undeath (I don't want this at all, I even take Dispel Magic in order to end this spell early, but...)? O_o

My bad for not reading the feat properly. I only saw it used in the shadowcraft mage, and didn't notice it was the same spell twice, which makes a lot more sense. Still, I don't feel like it's the best use of this feat , and the fact that it appears at the very end of the build, when you've already been doing your combos for a while doesn't make it seem well integrated. I would have preferred something more general, I think. Maybe Dragontouched-> Practical metamagic.

I take Int to AC (+17) from monk, too. I'd like to take more Monstrous Humanoid's HD, but them unfortunately ended. (((
And if I can't copy Improved Grapple with Mirror Move monk isn't unnecessary.

I would have liked it to be more outlined. You're not even saying that you're replicating Improved Grapple in the "Overall Tactics" paragraph. Still, +0.25, since you like AC.

I see regular melee attacks. Yes they hit far away, but in other respects nothing changes.

There's nothing like "melee attacks". An attack is "in melee" if you use it to attack an enemy within your reach by touching them directly. Blood Wind even specifically says the attack is counted as a thrown weapon. Knockback doesn't work.

Sorry, what? I can walk on air. I have Teleport, Earth Glide, Shadow Hand teleportation maneuvers, and Plane Shift SLA. Is this lacking of mobility? Well, I don't know what is mobility.
Hey! I can take Mobility via Heroics and Mirror Move, it's fighter feat, too! ;)

Walk on Air doesn't increase your speed in combat. In fact, it actively decreases it. Teleport and Plane Shift aren't usable to move yourself in combat (also Teleport is not a buff, so you can't use it). However, I did miss Shadow Blink. Shadow Stride is an acceptable mobility option, but in the end, it's only a 20ft improvement once per encounter. Shadow Blink is much better. +0.5
[/SPOILER][/QUOTE]

[jdizzlean]

we're putting our house on the market this weekend, so I may be moving soon. I'll get a table up when I can, to finalize the round, and likewise get a new round up when I can sit in front of a computer again...

[Thurbane]

we're putting our house on the market this weekend, so I may be moving soon. I'll get a table up when I can, to finalize the round, and likewise get a new round up when I can sit in front of a computer again...

I feel that: we just bought our first place, and will be moving in the next few weeks.

Hope it all goes smoothly for you.

[Thurbane]

Just popping a table here for when the chair is ready for the final reveal:

Name	Competitor	Description	Judge 1 Score	Total Score	Placing
Blackleaf, the Brutal		?E Treant Ghost RHD +4/Barbarian 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Frenzied Berserker 5	13.5	13.5	1st
One Paw Cat		LE Rakshasa, Outsider(good subtype), Fighter 1 /Forsaker 1 /Marshal 1 /Invisible Eye Monk 2 /Warblade 1 /Warshaper 4	8.75	8.75	4th
Tomas Stone		?E Effigy Were-Legendary Tiger Half-Ogre Wolf totem Barbarian 2/Fighter 8	12	12	3rd
⟨ ǂʃǂǃǃǀǁǁɕʃ ⟩		?E Spell weaver-30/Monk 1/Swordsage 2	12.5	12.5	2nd

[jdizzlean]

apologies for the extended delay. we are under contract, and every waking moment is either spent at work, or packing I hope to be able to close the round, and start the next soon!

we close the 7th, I pray to have everything settled within a week after that, but I'm also having a new pc built... life is crazy right now!

[H_H_F_F]

It's been a couple of weeks since the 7th. I would know, because it's my birthday.
Any updates, Jdizzlean?

[H_H_F_F]

I... Declare... A coup!!!


Well, not really a coup. More like a regency or something. Point is, the chair hoped to be here weeks ago, and the round's been concluded for weeks before that. No hard feelings on my part, but I'd like to keep the competition going while Jdizzlean takes care of his IRL stuff, which should obviously take precedence for him. I've tried to get in touch with him a few days ago, but he hasn't responded. Hopefully, (and I think realistically,) his stuff will be settled before we conclude next round and he'll be able to step right back in his place for round 44. For now, I have a concept ready to launch for next round, and am fully prepared to start it once we finish up this one.

All participants of this round: please PM me which entry is yours, so we can do a reveal and start round 43.

[H_H_F_F]

I only got a response from one of our participants...

New round starts in 24 hours. If you guys want to do a proper reveal before that, please let me know which entry is yours.

[loky1109]

ciopo didn't enter forum this year, and I don't know who is third.

Upd: Eurus maybe. Was today.

[mattie_p]

I assisted ciopo with a few minor things, so I know which entry. Pm Sent

[H_H_F_F]

And... here's the reveal!

Name	Competitor	Description	Beni-Kujaku's Score	Total Score	Placing
Blackleaf, the Brutal	Eurus	?E Treant Ghost RHD +4/Barbarian 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Frenzied Berserker 5	13.5	13.5	1st
One Paw Cat	Ciopo	LE Rakshasa, Outsider(good subtype), Fighter 1 /Forsaker 1 /Marshal 1 /Invisible Eye Monk 2 /Warblade 1 /Warshaper 4	8.75	8.75	4th
Tomas Stone	loky1109	?E Effigy Were-Legendary Tiger Half-Ogre Wolf totem Barbarian 2/Fighter 8	12	12	3rd
⟨ ǂʃǂǃǃǀǁǁɕʃ ⟩	loky1109	?E Spell weaver-30/Monk 1/Swordsage 2	12.5	12.5	2nd

That's it for this round! Congratulations Eurus for the gold, and to loky for silver and bronze. You'll get 'em next time, Ciopo. And thank you for judging Beni! much appreciated.

Next round will go up in a few hours.

[H_H_F_F]

New round here.

[loky1109]

I should say thanks to mattie_p.
Talk with you after Gojira round gave me Tomas Stone idea.

[loky1109]

I almost forgot!
Ciopo, one thing I want say for you.

Heroes POV: We found a mentor for the scrappy kid, He comes Maximilian approved, a palpable aura of good emanates from him...

This doesn't work.
First, paladin can't detect Good, only Evil (yes, there are spell for that, but who should use it???)
Second, good subtipe doesn't remove your Evil alignment, and Detect Evil still catch you.