How can Sunny is able to fly?

[Precure]

Is it due to some kind of inner magic? Or it's just the gas, as claimed by several forum members? My search on internet gives me contradictory information.

[InvisibleBison]

According to the Monster Manual, "[a] beholder's body is naturally buoyant. This buoyancy allows it to fly at a speed of 20 feet."

[KorvinStarmast]

Or it's just the gas, as claimed by several forum members?

A steady diet of pinto beans and jalapeños covers most of that.

[elros]

According to the Monster Manual, "[a] beholder's body is naturally buoyant. This buoyancy allows it to fly at a speed of 20 feet."

That would explain why V is able to fly faster than Sunny can turn.

[Living Oxymoron]

That would explain why V is able to fly faster than Sunny can turn.

This is a very good point.

[brian 333]

Helium, not hydrogen, or they would be a race of Hindenbergs.

I played them as distant relatives of gas spores, so their floating was not magical in nature but came from gas bladders. Your campaign may have different rules.

[Emanick]

A beholder is actually just a Koffing that has received a special eyestalk-laden coating that contains an artificial eye. That explains why beholders have never managed to take over the world: they eventually evolve into Weezing before their plans can advance that far, and a Weezing is too hard to apply the beholder coating to.

[skim172]

Beholders have 8 independently moving eyes at the tips of 8 independently moving tentacles. The amount of neurons and brainpower required to receive, process, and combine eight separate visual inputs would be incredible. I think we can reasonably assume that the majority of their body mass would be taken up by their extremely large brain and very complex nervous system required to operate their visual processing. The rest of their body is taken up by their giant central eye and the huge mouth - which would require considerable musculature itself.

The amount of hydrogen needed to lift a Beholder's considerable mass would be enormous. There simply is no way they could also incorporate a large enough gas bladder to be able to provide enough upwards buoyancy ... under Earth-like circumstances.

But maybe the Earth of the Stick-verse isn't like our Earth.

1) Perhaps the Earth of the Stick-verse has much, much denser atmosphere than our own. So Sunny requires only a very small gas bladder.

2) Perhaps the Earth of the Stick-verse is actually really, really tiny and thus has negligible gravity. We just haven't noticed because everyone in the Stickverse is incredibly heavy - they all have skeletons made out of gold or something - except for Sunny.

3) All the scenes we've seen so far in the comics are actually taking place underwater. Extremely clear water. People in the Stick-verse all have gills.


Alternatively, it's something to do with magnets. Magnets are some kind of witchcraft that can solve everything, according to the many reputable free energy wackos that I subscribe to on Youtube.

[Emanick]

Beholders have 8 independently moving eyes at the tips of 8 independently moving tentacles. The amount of neurons and brainpower required to receive, process, and combine eight separate visual inputs would be incredible. I think we can reasonably assume that the majority of their body mass would be taken up by their extremely large brain and very complex nervous system required to operate their visual processing. The rest of their body is taken up by their giant central eye and the huge mouth - which would require considerable musculature itself.

The amount of hydrogen needed to lift a Beholder's considerable mass would be enormous. There simply is no way they could also incorporate a large enough gas bladder to be able to provide enough upwards buoyancy ... under Earth-like circumstances.

But maybe the Earth of the Stick-verse isn't like our Earth.

1) Perhaps the Earth of the Stick-verse has much, much denser atmosphere than our own. So Sunny requires only a very small gas bladder.

2) Perhaps the Earth of the Stick-verse is actually really, really tiny and thus has negligible gravity. We just haven't noticed because everyone in the Stickverse is incredibly heavy - they all have skeletons made out of gold or something - except for Sunny.

3) All the scenes we've seen so far in the comics are actually taking place underwater. Extremely clear water. People in the Stick-verse all have gills.


Alternatively, it's something to do with magnets. Magnets are some kind of witchcraft that can solve everything, according to the many reputable free energy wackos that I subscribe to on Youtube.

Since we know beholders are extremely magical creatures whose eyes run on magical energy, I think both the most obvious and the most likely answer is "it's magic." There's no reason why magical energy can't be crushed into a very small space, as far as we know, so I buy that most of the beholder's body really is that buoyant, and thus its brain and nervous system don't have to occupy very much space.

[Tiltowait]

Beholders have 8 independently moving eyes at the tips of 8 independently moving tentacles. The amount of neurons and brainpower required to receive, process, and combine eight separate visual inputs would be incredible. I think we can reasonably assume that the majority of their body mass would be taken up by their extremely large brain

Maybe the brain is stored in hammerspace the Astral Plane, it's like astral projection in reverse.
Now there's an adventure hook, you're a mercenary team of ... uh, copyrighted creatures, hired to cut the silver cords on some scary monster's astral brain.

[Dion]

They’ve been flying around in a silly wooden boat for the last 7 years.

I don’t think this universe has the same buoyancy rules ours does.

Edit: oh wow! They met Julio and started flying around in the impossible airship in comic 389/390! We’ve had 15 years to get used to the silly in-universe buoyancy rules. I’m not going to worry about a beholder.

[Yanisa]

Since we know beholders are extremely magical creatures whose eyes run on magical energy, I think both the most obvious and the most likely answer is "it's magic." There's no reason why magical energy can't be crushed into a very small space, as far as we know, so I buy that most of the beholder's body really is that buoyant, and thus its brain and nervous system don't have to occupy very much space.

However, it isn't magic. The flight ability of beholders is classified as an Extraordinary Ability, which are specifically described as "nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics".

So any theories about magic, or different universal proporties are useless. A Beholder could function in an anti magic field on Real Life earth as if, according the writers. We are better off not to think about it.

[Emanick]

However, it isn't magic. The flight ability of beholders is classified as an Extraordinary Ability, which are specifically described as "nonmagical, though they may break the laws of physics".

So any theories about magic, or different universal proporties are useless. A Beholder could function in an anti magic field on Real Life earth as if, according the writers. We are better off not to think about it.

I wasn't saying that a beholder's buoyancy was magical. I was saying that magic it makes it possible for it to float, because it theoretically allows the area that should be taken up by the brain, nervous system, etc. to be much smaller. Thus, plenty of its body volume can be freed up to be filled with lighter-than-air gas.

Also, beholders come into being through explicitly magical processes, which means their biological structure can be as ridiculous as you want it to be - their bodies are inherently unnatural and did not develop through any kind of coherent process like evolution.

Is there an actual way to make its body make physical sense under real-world physics? Maybe not, but you can at least try and make it as believable as possible, and the existence of magic helps with that, IMO.

[RatElemental]

Also, beholders come into being through explicitly magical processes, which means their biological structure can be as ridiculous as you want it to be - their bodies are inherently unnatural and did not develop through any kind of coherent process like evolution.

I'm pretty sure beholders are aberrations, which means they came into existence due to the influence of the far realms. Which is where all the stuff that's even weirder and scarier than anything else in D&D lives or comes from. They can tell physics to sod off, it's weird cthulhu magic.

[Emanick]

I'm pretty sure beholders are aberrations, which means they came into existence due to the influence of the far realms. Which is where all the stuff that's even weirder and scarier than anything else in D&D lives or comes from. They can tell physics to sod off, it's weird cthulhu magic.

I'm not sure how compatible the existence of the Far Realms is with the OOTSverse cosmology. It could exist, but it's not intuitively to me clear how.

Also, I'm told that, according to Lords of Madness, apparently beholders reproduce by dreaming other beholders into existence, which means that as far as I'm concerned, their very existence is inherently magical and unnatural (though not necessarily in a "Far Realms" sort of way). That said, the Forgotten Realms wiki claims that beholders give birth in a natural, albeit weird and asexual way, so maybe that has been retconned or something.

[pearl jam]

spiders also have 8 eyes, albeit without the eyestalks, but they don't have, to my knowledge, abnormally large brains to handle them, thus I'm not sure it's a reasonable assumption to make that beholders' brains must necessarily be abnormally large to handle their eyes. they don't have any other limbs that require managing, for instance.

[hamishspence]

Also, I'm told that, according to Lords of Madness, apparently beholders reproduce by dreaming other beholders into existence, which means that as far as I'm concerned, their very existence is inherently magical and unnatural (though not necessarily in a "Far Realms" sort of way). That said, the Forgotten Realms wiki claims that beholders give birth in a natural, albeit weird and asexual way, so maybe that has been retconned or something.

It's Lords of Madness (3E) that has the "natural, albeit weird, way" and 5E that has "dreaming into existence".

[Metastachydium]

Beholders have 8 independently moving eyes at the tips of 8 independently moving tentacles. The amount of neurons and brainpower required to receive, process, and combine eight separate visual inputs would be incredible. I think we can reasonably assume that the majority of their body mass would be taken up by their extremely large brain and very complex nervous system required to operate their visual processing. The rest of their body is taken up by their giant central eye and the huge mouth - which would require considerable musculature itself.

The amount of hydrogen needed to lift a Beholder's considerable mass would be enormous. There simply is no way they could also incorporate a large enough gas bladder to be able to provide enough upwards buoyancy ... under Earth-like circumstances.

spiders also have 8 eyes, albeit without the eyestalks, but they don't have, to my knowledge, abnormally large brains to handle them, thus I'm not sure it's a reasonable assumption to make that beholders' brains must necessarily be abnormally large to handle their eyes. they don't have any other limbs that require managing, for instance.

Meanwhile, the West Indian fuzzy chiton has literally hundreds of eyes. It's also, well, a mollusc. You can imagine how brainy it is (spoiler alert: not really).
The point made is nevertheless valid: beholders are large, fully sapient organisms, from which we can infer that they have a high-powered, sizable brain. BUT! Beholders also have an unusual anatomy. Why couldn't they have an unusually shaped brain? For instance, an empty sphere lining their body, packed with neurons very tightly to reduce volume. Much of the space inside their bodies can, in the meantime, be occupied by a system of bladders and tubes, full of high-pressure low-weight gas.
(Other than that, though, yeah, aberrations tend not to make much sense, so it stands to reason that nor do beholders.)

[Dion]

On earth, at sea level, a cubic meter of air weighs about 1.25 kilograms.

If Sunny is about 2 meters in diameter, that means she would displace about 4 cubic meters of air on earth, or about 5 kilograms.

So if she were buoyant on earth, she and everything she caries together couldn’t weigh more than about 5 kg / 11 lbs.

[Riftwolf]

I'd just like to point out that Belkar's head canonically accounts for over half his body weight. The only logical explanation is he subconsciously uses psychic power to levitate his head to prevent his neck breaking. As this still functions in an antimagic field, it's an extraordinary ability. Sunny has far more braining than Belkar so can consciously manoeuvre it's psychic field.
Or, yknow, it's stick comic physics, not a real world scenario.

[Dion]

Sunny has far more braining than Belkar

I think this solves the problem right here.

[hamishspence]

On earth, at sea level, a cubic meter of air weighs about 1.25 kilograms.

If Sunny is about 2 meters in diameter, that would means she’s would displacing about 4 cubic meters of air on earth, or about 5 kilograms.

So if she were buoyant on earth, she and everything she caries together couldn’t weigh more than about 5 kg / 11 lbs.

Given that Lords of Madness lists 4000-5000 pounds as normal for an 8 ft diameter beholder, I think it's safe to say that they fiddle the laws of physics somewhat.

A point is made of how a beholder's internal organs float when removed from the body, despite the fact that they do not contain much air or natural gas - but that "freakish buoyancy" only lasts for 12 hours, unless the organs are preserved via gentle repose spells.

[brian 333]

Hydrogen as a bouyancy mechanism would make them explosively flammable. Their internal structure might be made of lithium... Oh. Wait.

That leaves helium. The next gas is nitrogen and it's exactly as heavy as air.

So, the beholder brain is non-centralized and virtually every cell in its body is a neuron, with perhaps specialized ganglia at each eye for independent local control.

The interior of every cell in its body is not filled with protoplasm: the genetic material of each cell lines the inner cell wall. The center of every cell, (which is also a neuron,) is a helium-filled ballon which allows the cells of its outer integument to be slightly heavier than air while having a rubbery toughness. To compensate for this, there are special bouyancy cells in the upper half of the sphere which are larger, but which have muscles like the chromataphors on a squid's skin allowing the beholder to compress and expand the cells to control buoyancy.

The large mouth is not for eating people, it is for masticating helium-bearing rocks. Beholders live underground to be near such rocks. Its mouth also allows it to gulp air and expel it from its hundreds of bronchial tubes which feed fresh air to the cells for respiration. Control of the air outlets allow the beholder to use jet propulsion to move.

The muscles of the buoyancy cells can 'shiver' to warm the helium for greater buoyancy and the bronchial tubes can force air through them to cool the helium. Helium can be expelled at dire need, but it takes a lot of chewing to replace, so beholders would rather carry smooth, shiny rocks under their tongues as ballast.

They have no anus. The mouth serves as their digestive organ, and undigestible materials are spit out.

Beholders are not animals, they are fungi. They are genetic relatives of the gas spores, and their procreation method is similar. As the time of their death approaches they begin to amass a bed of organic matter and they expel masticated but undigested helium-bearing rock into the mix. Since certain minerals and compounds are more abundant in neural tissue, they crave brainy creatures to add to their stockpile. If possible they keep one or two alive to tend and turn the mulch.

In the final stage of their life they become sessile and settle into the mulch with only their eyestalks showing. They sprout rhizomes that then spread through the mulch and bud.

Although hundreds of buds form, only the first half-dozen to become motile actually become beholders because the late bloomers are tasty sources of vitamins, minerals, and much-needed helium. The dying parent is also a good source of delicious helium, and the offspring that develop the use of their antimagic eye first generally get the most. Leaving the nest early risks being a runt, while waiting too long risks being eaten.

In a beholder colony that desires to expand, budding youngsters are taken away to minimize cannibalism and fifty surviving offspring can result rather than the more typical 1-8.

Runts and late bloomers can happen, but beholders typically eat them. Those which escape can sometimes survive for a time in less hospitable locations, but to successfully procreate these creatures must eventually find a source of hydrogen-bearing rock.

TLDR: Beholders are rubber balls filled with billions of helium balloons.

[Dion]

I think it's safe to say that they fiddle the laws of physics somewhat.

That’s preposterous!

Next you’ll tell me that hitpoints are ridiculous, and no matter how many experience points O-Chul has earned by killing things in combat, he still wouldn’t be able to swim in a vat of acid.

But here we are. Beholders float and O-Chul swims around in acid.

[Riftwolf]

Hydrogen as a bouyancy mechanism would make them explosively flammable. Their internal structure might be made of lithium... Oh. Wait.

That leaves helium. The next gas is nitrogen and it's exactly as heavy as air.

The wiki entry for beholders (which I can't find atm) listed a magical lighter-than-air inert gas that the beholders digestive system produces that accumulates at the top of the beholders head. So the real question is how is Sunny flying upside down without a mouthful of toots.

[Precure]

The wiki entry for beholders (which I can't find atm) listed a magical lighter-than-air inert gas that the beholders digestive system produces that accumulates at the top of the beholders head.

So, it's BOTH because of the inner magic and the gas.

[Dion]

It’s a quantum mechanics thing, like Bioshock Infinite.

[JonahFalcon]

This entire conversation reminds me of this.

[OracleofWuffing]

Found a Lords of Madness book.

Perhaps the most unusual shared feature of a beholder's internal organs is their freakish buoyancy. Even when separated from the remainder of the body, these organs float like balloons, despite the fact that they rarely contain any appreciable volumes of air or natural gas. [...] This natural buoyancy allows a beholder to fly, its motions and movement controlled by bursts of air expelled from its thousands of spiracles.

So, it's not so much a "Gas Bladder and Orifice" system, but that a beholder's internals are made of an aerogel-like material and it has and is constantly using thousands of exhaust orifices in every which direction.

Of course, this is assuming that Sunny is a beholder, which has yet to be proven in-universe.

[Dion]

Found a Lords of Madness book.

So, it's not so much a "Gas Bladder and Orifice" system, but that a beholder's internals are made of an aerogel-like material and it has and is constantly using thousands of exhaust orifices in every which direction.

Is that the same Lords of Madness listed above that says beholders are 8 feet in diameter and weigh 4000-5000 lbs?

Assuming they're perfect spheres (and also assuming a "pound" is the same in all universes) that would make a beholder about 0.24 g/cm^3.

That makes a beholder:

* 1/4th the weight of a person the same size (so they are fairly light)
* 80 times heavier than aerogel
* 185 times too heavy to float like a balloon.

It's very possible this Lords of Madness book doesn't tell the whole story.

Perhaps beholders have some type of repulsor device that allows them to float, like a star wars land speeder.