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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    At about 2:27, does it look to anyone else like the sandstorm is blocking the lighting bolt?
    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Spoiler: Lightning
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    Not sure--it looks like the lightning is kicking up a cloud of dust and debris, just short of Spidey.

    Alternatively, the dust cloud could be interposing itself between Spidey and the lightning, but that's not my sense of what's happening. It looks more as if the lightning is walking its way towards Spidey and churning up a cloud as it goes. I really don't have the sense that the dust in this scene is moving of its own volition.
    There are two "lightning and sand" shots - one at 2:13, and the one you two are discussing at 2:27. The latter one could potentially be dust being thrown/churned up by the lightning, but the former definitely isn't - the sand is swirling in the air before the lightning even touches the ground. Personally I don't think it's a coincidence that both times we see lightning we see sand as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    Hmm, well if he found the one winning path, then he had to have viewed at least the five years until getting to the events of Infinity War. It's probable that he would have learned that he'd permanently lose the time stone in the process of those events.

    What are the chances, then, that he'd be curious to look a little farther into the future to get the most of his last chance with the stone? I'd say decently good.
    I assume you meant the events of Endgame in the bold bit there.

    However, you're also assuming he can do that. The time stone he has was present for the events of Endgame, by virtue of having been borrowed from the past and used for the Third Snap (to bring everyone back) and the Fourth Snap (to kill Thanos and his army), then returned to the past of that same timeline without creating a branch. So seeing far enough to know "we succeed in undoing the Snap" doesn't mean he saw anything past Endgame where there is no more time stone.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigoDragon View Post
    The wibbly-wobbly bit about this is that that the events of Loki start at the end of the first Avengers movie. The fact that Dr. Strange saw several million futures and that in Endgame they killed an alternate timeline Thanos as well as their own tells me that the multiverse was well established by the time Strange was looking.
    See above - that he saw a bunch of possibilities and identified the one with the Third and Fourth Snaps as the "right one" doesn't tell us how far past those events he Saw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    That Loki's person frame of reference effectively "begins" at the end of the first Avengers movie but the actual events of the series itself take place both across the timeline entirely and also in various special realms that exist entirely outside any possible frame of reference. Who knows when the multiverse is technically established to exist? Arguably it already always had the moment it started.
    This too. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's quite possible that everything Strange saw with his divinations, however far they went, is now invalid.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    It looks like Peter's name was cleared though (given that he's not in jail and all), so the issue now is being an unwanted celebrity and the effect that's having on his aunt and friends. Not great certainly, but Earth-199999 is a universe where Peter doesn't have a massive rogues' gallery running around to endanger them at every turn either - and even if he did, there are many other public heroes not to mention SHIELD and SWORD who have his back and can help with that. Given that state of affairs, rewriting reality is a massive step especially if it can potentially undermine one or both of those other safeguards - which it looks like is almost exactly what ends up happening.
    Alternatively, he could be out on bail pending trial. There are probably enough other heroes who are willing to vouch for him (and he did help save the universe) that he could probably get bail.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    Alternatively, he could be out on bail pending trial. There are probably enough other heroes who are willing to vouch for him (and he did help save the universe) that he could probably get bail.
    Having War Machine vouch for you is probably a better advocate in front of a judge than Tony Stark.

    ( thinks of the Iron Man 2 congress scene, but there are dozens of other good examples )
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    Alternatively, he could be out on bail pending trial. There are probably enough other heroes who are willing to vouch for him (and he did help save the universe) that he could probably get bail.
    This was my thought too. It would give a bit of tension to the first act, before everything goes haywire.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Or the spell Strange casts changes things. Hard to press charges on someone when you don't know who they are.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Can someone explain to me how / why people think Dr. Strange is a Skrull?

    If we had a Skrull Spellcaster, wouldn't he pick something else if he were doing a world changing spell?
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Can someone explain to me how / why people think Dr. Strange is a Skrull?
    Sure.

    A portion of Forum Goers, including me, feel that the Dr. Strange in the preview is acting somewhat out of character.

    A subset of that group, NOT including me, feel that this will turn out to NOT be Dr. Strange but someone masquerading as Strange, or someone mind-controlling Strange and that's why he's acting out of character.

    A subset of that group hypothesis that the imposter might be a Skrull.

    Explained.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    Alternatively, he could be out on bail pending trial. There are probably enough other heroes who are willing to vouch for him (and he did help save the universe) that he could probably get bail.
    Also, he wouldn't be on trial in New York for a murder he allegedly committed in London in any case. Extradition would potentially introduce some delays.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    I feel like extradition being on the table is a pretty good reason to NOT grant bail. But we'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Can someone explain to me how / why people think Dr. Strange is a Skrull?

    If we had a Skrull Spellcaster, wouldn't he pick something else if he were doing a world changing spell?
    IIRC Strange has been impersonated by a Skrull in the comics, magic and all. But I would much prefer the variant/possessed/impostor approach.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-08-25 at 09:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Wintermoot View Post
    Sure.

    A portion of Forum Goers, including me, feel that the Dr. Strange in the preview is acting somewhat out of character.

    A subset of that group, NOT including me, feel that this will turn out to NOT be Dr. Strange but someone masquerading as Strange, or someone mind-controlling Strange and that's why he's acting out of character.

    A subset of that group hypothesis that the imposter might be a Skrull.

    Explained.
    To build on this, Marvel has already used the "x character was secretly a Skrull" to poke fun at a character acting out of character (in a way that was necessary for the movie to happen) in a related movie to this one.

    Spoiler: spoiler
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    I'm talking about Far From Home, where the end-credits scene showed that "Nick Fury" was actually a Skrull the whole time.


    So the idea has already been planted in the viewer's mind, and Marvel is known for taking casual throwbacks and making them plot points. I don't think we're going to have Skrull!Strange, but I can see the train of thought.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    That Loki's person frame of reference effectively "begins" at the end of the first Avengers movie but the actual events of the series itself take place both across the timeline entirely and also in various special realms that exist entirely outside any possible frame of reference. Who knows when the multiverse is technically established to exist? Arguably it already always had the moment it started.
    Again, "wibbly-wobbly". I think the term fits perfectly here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I assume you meant the events of Endgame in the bold bit there.

    However, you're also assuming he can do that. .
    Yes, I meant Endgame. That typo is on me.

    And yes, there are assumptions here. I mean, we all are speculating theories here (it's a big part of the discussion, no?). ;)

    Until the movie says that Strange couldn't do that, the possibility remains that he could have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Having War Machine vouch for you is probably a better advocate in front of a judge than Tony Stark.
    If Tony believed in me the way he belied in Parker, I personally would pick Tony to vouch for me. Would it be a hot mess in the court room?

    Probably! But somehow Tony manages to make it work out in the end. ... except maybe for the Ultron incident, but it was that one time. XD
    Last edited by DigoDragon; 2021-08-26 at 07:31 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Tony never ended up in Jail even when he was actively engaging in highly illegal international military action. You could do far, far worse than to have Stark in your legal corner.

    Although it begs the question. Parker isnt officially an Avenger, but he is Stark's protege and presumably is officially registered under the Sokovia Accords. So maybe he's not in trouble for the death of Mysterio in and of itself, but for going off the books, just giving away all that tech without consulting the office, and never calling the incident in. And he gets let out because he did try and ask for help and Nick Fury shut him down.
    Last edited by Keltest; 2021-08-26 at 07:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    But can people explain to me why a Skrull magician choose to cast a world ending spell, a spell that he volunteers when asked ( he could always say no ), where he gets pushback from his colleagues Wong, and he still does it.

    Why would a Skrull who is trying to remain secret do such a thing? A Skrull must have a goal even if the goal is just to remain secret, what goal is this furthering? And why didn’t he do world changing spell prior to Peter asking him? What makes this specific request special?
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  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Originally Posted by Keltest
    Parker isnt officially an Avenger….
    He’s not in residence upstate, but Stark did tell him, “You’re an Avenger now,” at 1:04:55 in Infinity War. Sounds official enough.

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    But can people explain to me why a Skrull magician choose to cast a world ending spell, a spell that he volunteers when asked ( he could always say no ), where he gets pushback from his colleagues Wong, and he still does it.

    Why would a Skrull who is trying to remain secret do such a thing? A Skrull must have a goal even if the goal is just to remain secret, what goal is this furthering? And why didn’t he do world changing spell prior to Peter asking him? What makes this specific request special?
    It's a WILD and BASELESS speculation. Why would we need to explain... you know what, never mind.

    Here's why. The Skrull WANTS to end life on earth to make way for Skrull colonization. You see unlike the nice skrulls from Captain Marvel, this Skrull works for the evil skrulls that want to colonize earth. However, when they super-skrulled him up, he ended up with powers over Magic which have all kinds of dumb rules they didn't account for. Why oh why couldn't he just get Thor powers or Giant-man powers. Why did he have to end up with ridiculous Dr. Strange powers.

    He tried casting a spell to destroy all life and it didn't work. But he figured out he needs a focus, a well-meaning shlub to make an ill-conceived wish that can power the magic.

    So when Peter comes asking for a simple "make everyone forget" spell he realizes this is a chance to use Peter as the focus for this spell.

    As an aside, this also allows him to pass the buck, the shift the blame. So that when anyone comes looking for who did this terrible thing, he can point them to Peter instead of himself.

    So he starts casting the spell but the Peter starts interrupting. The Skrull didn't anticipate that he focus could affect the spell JUST BY TALKING. If only he understood these whack dumb powers better. So at the end it DOESN'T wipe out all the humans, just does something else stupid. Rips open space time and dumps a bunch of multiversal garbage into the world.

    There. That's why. That's your answer.
    Last edited by Wintermoot; 2021-08-26 at 11:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    But can people explain to me why a Skrull magician choose to cast a world ending spell, a spell that he volunteers when asked ( he could always say no ), where he gets pushback from his colleagues Wong, and he still does it.

    Why would a Skrull who is trying to remain secret do such a thing? A Skrull must have a goal even if the goal is just to remain secret, what goal is this furthering? And why didn’t he do world changing spell prior to Peter asking him? What makes this specific request special?
    I am personally against the "Skrull Mage" theory. But something... strange... is almost certainly going on with Strange in that trailer.

    If it ends up just being "he felt extra cocky today" then I'm going to be disappointed.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    And by adding the word "Multiverse" they transformed their incompetence into genius.
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    The line between incompetence and genius is branding
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by False God View Post
    And by adding the word "Multiverse" they transformed their incompetence into genius.
    I wouldn't call it genius, more like acceptance.

    Comic book style superhero worlds fundamentally don't work. They lack verisimilitude is massive ways that there simply is no easy way to write around. It's possible to write around this for a while, and Marvel materialized a truly massive bag of tricks in order to do so, but eventually the strain grows too great. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, a show widely criticized for issues that in most cases traced to the impossibility of building a coherent backdrop to sustain its story, represents the first real casualty of this issue. Marvel smartly, rather than trying to sustain a coherent storyline, has decided to break coherency entirely an embrace the madness (to some extent they were already doing this, with movies like Thor: Ragnarok). At some point going weird is the only option, and honestly, I give Marvel credit for going weird in a big way, even if it will mean their future stories are rather less approachable than before.
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    I wouldn't call it genius, more like acceptance.

    Comic book style superhero worlds fundamentally don't work. They lack verisimilitude is massive ways that there simply is no easy way to write around. It's possible to write around this for a while, and Marvel materialized a truly massive bag of tricks in order to do so, but eventually the strain grows too great. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, a show widely criticized for issues that in most cases traced to the impossibility of building a coherent backdrop to sustain its story, represents the first real casualty of this issue. Marvel smartly, rather than trying to sustain a coherent storyline, has decided to break coherency entirely an embrace the madness (to some extent they were already doing this, with movies like Thor: Ragnarok). At some point going weird is the only option, and honestly, I give Marvel credit for going weird in a big way, even if it will mean their future stories are rather less approachable than before.
    Actually, I was referring to all of Sony's attempts at a Spiderman franchise up to this point.
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by False God View Post
    Actually, I was referring to all of Sony's attempts at a Spiderman franchise up to this point.
    Ohhh you meant Marvel turned Sony's incompetence into genius.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    even if it will mean their future stories are rather less approachable than before.
    How so?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Sam Raimi's Spiderman was 19 years ago now. Not everyone will have seen it, including many teenagers, who are a main audience. I mean, it's probably watchable without knowing exactly who Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus from these movies are, but still.
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I am personally against the "Skrull Mage" theory. But something... strange... is almost certainly going on with Strange in that trailer.

    If it ends up just being "he felt extra cocky today" then I'm going to be disappointed.
    With Multiverse of Madness coming up, it might be to foreshadow that some kind of Macguffin or villain is influencing his mind already?
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I am personally against the "Skrull Mage" theory. But something... strange... is almost certainly going on with Strange in that trailer.

    If it ends up just being "he felt extra cocky today" then I'm going to be disappointed.
    If they're basing this on the One More Day comics plotline, which also featured Spiderman trying to find a way to erase knowledge of his secret identity, then

    Spoiler
    Show
    my money's on Mephisto, and introducing a wish-granting devil is a lot less jarring if Dr Strange is also involved.


    (And considering how poorly received One More Day was, that's a pretty gutsy move, but Civil War also improved greatly in adaptation.)
    Last edited by Azuresun; 2021-08-27 at 05:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    I swear, Feige may be deliberately dropping Mephisto Easter Eggs for the entire Phase 4 going forward just to roll with the meme. Then, he'll end up somewhere way down the line like Phase 7-8 instead of sooner.
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    If we wanna go really out there in crazy speculation, maybe Marvel stole a page from Rick and Morty and the entirety of No Way Home is in an alternate timeline.

    Though my saner idea now is perhaps there's two Dr. Stranges in play, and Peter is fighting one of them.
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    It could be a Mysterio thing. He was notable in the comics for actually being his own counterpart in the Ultimate universe.I just sent a robot version of himself over.
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    It could be a Mysterio thing. He was notable in the comics for actually being his own counterpart in the Ultimate universe.I just sent a robot version of himself over.
    If this ends with us getting another Mysterio back from the Multiverse somehow, I'm all for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Sam Raimi's Spiderman was 19 years ago now. Not everyone will have seen it, including many teenagers, who are a main audience. I mean, it's probably watchable without knowing exactly who Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus from these movies are, but still.
    Teens matter certainly, but the vast majority of Disney's money doesn't come from the films. It comes from the theme parks and resorts, and 20/30/40-somethings are the ones with the disposable income to go to those (with their families), not teenagers. The movies are a profit center sure, but their primary purpose is to provide the attractions that pull people, in droves, onto that very expensive property.

    Ergo, expect the main movies to cater to Gen Y (and X) more than Gen Z. That means seeing things like Raimi callbacks in a 2021 trailer with no explanation given for the younger fans, who they're sure can go google who that guy was at the end if they don't already know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    If they're basing this on the One More Day comics plotline, which also featured Spiderman trying to find a way to erase knowledge of his secret identity, then

    Spoiler
    Show
    my money's on Mephisto, and introducing a wish-granting devil is a lot less jarring if Dr Strange is also involved.


    (And considering how poorly received One More Day was, that's a pretty gutsy move, but Civil War also improved greatly in adaptation.)
    Spoiler: One More Day
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    Actually, OMD was about Peter trying to bring Aunt May back to life. Granted, her death was a direct result of his identity becoming public, but Peter going back into hiding was a side-effect of the spell rather than his reason for seeking it out like it is here.

    And notably, in that comic, Dr. Strange turned him down saying that what he was after was too dangerous to attempt. Similarly, Reed Richards couldn't save her either. He ended up knowingly taking help from Mephisto there, as opposed to whatever hoodwink might be happening here. That might make all the difference - the fact that Peter really shouldn't be the person trusting Mephisto of all people was a big reason people hated OMD.

    Another reason audiences and critics hated OMD was the Doylist reason for its existence - the writers being sick of writing around Peter's marriage to MJ, Stan Lee and the fans who liked it be damned. Another cost of the spell was that Mephisto ate Peter and MJ's marriage, leaving him single and swinging free (literally in some cases.) I never had a dog in that particular race but for those who were invested it was something of a betrayal. As they aren't married in the MCU, that won't be an issue here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    With Multiverse of Madness coming up, it might be to foreshadow that some kind of Macguffin or villain is influencing his mind already?
    Which might also help explain one of the most common complaints I kept seeing about WandaVision, namely where was he when Chaos Magic was running rampant next door to his own state?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    If this ends with us getting another Mysterio back from the Multiverse somehow, I'm all for it!
    My bet that if it is Mysterio somehow, it's the member of his team who recorded everything and outed Peter at the end who is actually from the multiverse which was how he fed that line to the patsy in the suit.
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  30. - Top - End - #90
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Spider-Man: No Way Home - Official Teaser Trailer, just released from Sony Pictur

    Has Marvel done so many deceptive trailers that we are just completely discounting that this might be accurate? Strange works a spell that is dangerous but within his abilities, except Peter disrupts it by throwing in a bunch of extra complications and the result is bad?

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