Shadow Adept vs. Shadowmage

[Buufreak]

How is a sorcerer/wizard multiclass without Ultimate Magus in any way just as powerful as a sorcerer with a full casting advancement prestige class?

In short, it's not. But I don't think that is what he is trying to say? If it is that he is saying sorcerer 10/ (insert overspecialized wizard here) 10, then he is simply wrong.

[LordofBones]

According to CEC, a shadowmage is an illusionist specialized in shadow descriptor spells.

[CopperElfCleric]

We are talking at cross purposes. I struggle to understand what is meant by this.



Sorcerer/ Shadow Adept 10 a is thing. Sorcerer 10/Shadowmage 10 and Sorcerer 10/ Phantasmist 10 are not a thing. If you are talking about homebrew prestige classes, just tell me that is the case and put me out of my misery

In what game is that not a thing? Well yes... homebrew is canon... what is the difference when any yahoo with clout can create an article in dragon magazine?

What makes an author published in DM any better than what you or I have spent time on?

My PrC's are no better or less than theirs. Are yours? Again, this is basic... common. From 1ED to 5ED... D&D is not built to be black and white.

What skilled DM will say no to a CN Moon elf Assassin? It fits the D&D standards, doesn't break the rules and adds to PC development.

{scrubbed}

[noce]

My PrC's are no better or less than theirs.

I think that what he's trying to say is that published PrCs can be accessed by everyone that owns the book, so when someone talks about a Shadowcraft Mage everyone else can understand what he's saying.
On the other hand, saying a Shadowmage is fantastic cannot be understood by most readers, since we don't even know if you intend a Specialist Wizard focusing on the Shadow sub-school, a homebrew PrC, or just any caster focusing on Shadow sub-school.

It certainly is fantastic to play a shadow-themed caster, but we cannot say much more than that without knowing about your PrC.

[Buufreak]

Noce has the right of it. You can house rule and homebrew anything you want. But when you have no point of reference for said things, us as readers have no idea what you are talking about and have to default to information we are privy to, such as the books in print that we own or the srd.

[redking]

In what game is that not a thing? Well yes... homebrew is canon... what is the difference when any yahoo with clout can create an article in dragon magazine?

What makes an author published in DM any better than what you or I have spent time on?

I'm not impunging your homebrew prestige classes. I'm saying that I don't know what they are, what they can do, or what they offer in comparison to the shadow adept.

In your original post you ask people if they'd choose shadow adept, which they know or can find out about with a google search, or your homebrew shadowmage which no amount of searching can unearth.

Perhaps if you'd post your shadowmage and phantasmist then people would have a basis on which to judge and answer your question.

[CopperElfCleric]

I don't know of any prestige classes called 'shadowmage' or 'phantasmist'. I use shadowmage as a catch-all for someone that focuses on the Illusion (Shadow) subschool. There is no reason that a shadow adept cannot also be a shadowmage. Shadow magic is just magical technique, independent of the source of power (weave or shadow weave).

If you want to specialize in something, sorcerer as the base class is a poor choice.

The Shadowmage first appeared in 2ED D&D. I made a 3.5 version for our personal gaming group. But Shadowmage is a real thing that is canon in D&D 2ED.

[CopperElfCleric]

In short, it's not. But I don't think that is what he is trying to say? If it is that he is saying sorcerer 10/ (insert overspecialized wizard here) 10, then he is simply wrong.

My typo... My bad. Buufreak is correct.

I've never seen any reason to drop 2 CORE arcane spellcasting classes on a PC, unless said arcane spells come from a PrC.

So a Sorcerer 10/ Phantasmist 10 is just a 20'th level arcane caster that specializes in phantasms.

Same with a Sorcerer 10/ Shadowmage 10.

In 1ED Advanced D&D, and 2ED you had the Illusionist. A separate core class from a "Magic-User". Wizards and Sorcerers didn't exist back then.

If it doesn't sound CORE, or Forgotten Realms specific, then my gaming group created it as a home-brew.

Shadowmage is canon 2ED, Phantasmist is just a home-brew specialist not unlike the Shadowmage.

I once remember a game back in 1994, where a Shadowmage at level 18 destroyed everything with sheer shadow spells.

The spells Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation, along with their Greater counterparts are sometimes even better than any Conjuration or Evocation spell by itself.

[CopperElfCleric]

I'm not impunging your homebrew prestige classes. I'm saying that I don't know what they are, what they can do, or what they offer in comparison to the shadow adept.

In your original post you ask people if they'd choose shadow adept, which they know or can find out about with a google search, or your homebrew shadowmage which no amount of searching can unearth.

Perhaps if you'd post your shadowmage and phantasmist then people would have a basis on which to judge and answer your question.

The Shadowmage:

Some spellcasters who discover the existence of the Plane of Shadow learn how to tap directly into its power using the weave, altering their magic slowly to take advantage of its effects. Others are more reckless, hurling themselves into the mysteries of shadow magic immediately to acquire all the gifts available to the casual student and discover secrets unavailable to all but the most dedicated. These latter spellcasters are the shadowmages, who make great sacrifices with respect to some aspects of the Art in order to reap greater benefits elsewhere.

Most shadowmages were previously sorcerers or wizards, and these are the ones who stand to gain the greatest power from adopting this path. Any spellcaster can tap the Plane of Shadow through the Weave, however, and a few bards and beguilers have also been known to make this choice.

Requirements
To qualify to become a Shadowmage, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:

Alignment: Any non-good.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 8 ranks.
Feats: Spell focus (Illusion, Enchantment or Necromancy)
Spellcasting: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.

Class Skills:
The shadowmage's class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Disguise, Hide, Knowledge (all skills taken individually), Profession, and SpellCraft.

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features
All the following are Class Features of the shadow adept prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shadowmages gain no proficiency with any weapon, armor, or shield. Armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble, and double the normal armor check penalty applies to Swim checks.

Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new shadowmage level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class granted him access to 3rd-level spells before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, and so on), except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. This essentially means that he adds the level of shadowmage to the level of whatever other spellcasting class granted him access to 3rd-level spells, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.

If a character had more than one spellcasting class that granted access to 3rd-level spells before he became a shadowmage, he must decide to which class he adds each level of shadowmage for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Advanced Shadow Magic: Starting at 1st level, from now on, your spells tap the Plane of Shadow directly through the Weave.

The saving throw for every spell you cast from the schools of enchantment, illusion, and necromancy increases by +2. You also get a +2 bonus on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance with spells from these schools.

Shadow Magic proves less than optimal for effects involving energy or matter. Your effective caster level for spells you cast from the schools of evocation or transmutation (except spells with the shadow or darkness descriptor) is reduced by one.

Shadow Mastery (Ex): At 1st level a shadowmage automatically adds two shadow spells to his spellbook every time he gains a level that grants access to a new spell level. Furthermore, any time the shadowmage learns a new shadow spell, he treats that spell as if he had mastered it with the Spell Mastery feat.

Darkvision (Ex): At 2nd level, a shadowmage can see in the dark as though he were permanently affected by a darkvision spell. If the shadowmage already has darkvision, then its range is doubled..

Shadow Defense (Ex): At 3rd level, a shadowmage gains resistance to the kinds of spells that are favored by Shadow Magic. He gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells from the schools of enchantment, illusion, and necromancy, as well as spells with the shadow or darkness descriptor.

Afraid of the Shadows:(Sp) At 4'th level the Shadowmage may draw forth a twisted reflection of your foe from the Plane of Shadow. The image unerringly touches the subject, causing Wisdom damage equal to 1d6 points +1 point per four caster levels (maximum +5). A Will saving throw halves the Wisdom damage. This ability takes one standard action.

Deadly Shade (Sp): At 5th level the shadowmage creates tendrils of darkness that flow from the ground like smoke, filling the area with writhing, shifting darkness. The area of deadly shade is filled with shadowy illumination, as per darkness. In addition, each time you use this SLA you decide if you wish the spell to deal or absorb damage.

If you choose to deal damage, anyone within the area who suffers hit point damage from any source must make a Fortitude save. Failure indicates that the subject gains a negative level. Success prevents the negative level, but if the individual is damaged again within the area, he must attempt a new save. These negative levels fade in 1 hour per caster level, and they never cause permanent level loss.

If you choose instead to have the deadly shade absorb damage, all creatures within the area gain DR 4/- and energy resistance 4 against all energy types. (This stacks with other forms of resistance or other sources that grant DR X/-.) This SLA takes a standard action and has a range of 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels, an area of 30-ft.-radius emanation, and lasts 1 round/level. A Fort save negates and the target can use its SR if it has any.

Clinging Darkness {Sp): At 6th level you cause shadows to ooze out of the floors, the walls, even the air, filling the area with wisps of writhing blackness. Creatures within the area become coated in these clinging shadows.

Any creature within the area affected by this SLA, or that enters the area on its turn, must make a Reflex save or become immobilized.

Each round on its turn, an immobilized subject can attempt a new saving throw to end the condition. Because of the subject’s condition, this save is a full-round action (but does not provoke attacks of opportunity). If an immobilized subject succeeds on its save, it still needs to save again at the start of its next turn in order to avoid succumbing to the darkness again. This SLA takes a standard action and has a range of 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels, an area of 20-ft.-radius emanation, and lasts 1 round/level. A Ref save negates and the target can use its SR if it has any.

Superior Darkvision (Su): At 7th level, a shadowmage can see through any form of normal or magical darkness without hindrance.

Tomb of Night (Sp): At 8th level the shadowmage can solidify extraplanar shadow, creating a solid prison of darkness. This SLA immobilizes the subject in a prison of shadowstuff. This prison blocks both line of effect and line of sight to the creature inside it, and is impenetrable from the outside. The creature inside the prison takes 3d6 points of cold damage at the beginning of each round that it remains inside the prison.

Once each round as a standard action, a creature caught in the prison can attempt a Fortitude saving throw against the spell’s original DC to break out of the prison. Success means that the creature can move out of the prison, and the prison fades to nothingness. Failure means that the creature gains one negative level. This SLA takes a standard action and has a range of 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels, it can affect one Huge or smaller creature and lasts 1 round/level. A Fort save negates and the target can use its SR if it has any.

Ephemeral Storm (Su): At 9th level, anytime the shadowmage is reduced to 0 hitpoints the air explodes with shadowy tendrils that slice like blades. Targets of ephemeral storm must make a Fortitude save or die. Those who succeed take 5d6 points of damage. If the targets fail their save and die, then the shadowmage absorbs all targets remaining hitpoints at the time of their death until she reaches her full max hitpoints. If the targets succeed at a Fortitude save, then the shadowmage heals the 5d6 points of damage instead. This supernatural ability has a range of 25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels centered on the shadowmage, and targets one living creature/2 levels, no two of which are more than 20 ft. apart. A Fort save grants partial and the target can use its SR if it has any.

Shadow Double (Su): Once per day, a 10th-level shadowmage can use a standard action to create a double of himself woven from shadowstuff. The double has the ability scores, base AC, hit points, saves, and attack bonuses of its creator, but no equipment. (Any apparent clothing or equipment is nonfunctional.) Since it can use anything its creator can, the double can attack the creator's enemies if given a weapon or item with which to do so. Alternatively, it can function as the target of a project image spell, duplicating the creator's actions and functioning as the origin of the creator's spells when it is within his direct line of sight. Mentally commanding the double is a free action. Using it as the originator of a spell counts as an action of the sort needed to cast the spell for both the creator and the double. Causing either the creator or the double to leave the plane they share dismisses the double.

The double lasts 1 round per caster level. The death of the double does not affect the shadowmage or vice versa. If its creator dies, the shadow double still lasts until its duration expires.

Shadowmage	Hit Dice: d4
CL	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special	Spells per Day
1st	+0	+0	+0	+2	Advanced shadow magic	+1 level of existing spellcasting class
2nd	+1	+0	+0	+3	Darkvision	                        +1 level of existing spellcasting class
3rd	+1	+1	+1	+3	Shadow defense +2	        +1 level of existing spellcasting class
4th	+2	+1	+1	+4	Afraid of the shadows	        +1 level of existing spellcasting class
5th	+2	+1	+1	+4	Deadly Shade	                +1 level of existing spellcasting class
6th	+3	+2	+2	+5	Clinging darkness	        +1 level of existing spellcasting class
7th	+3	+2	+2	+5	Superior darkvision	        +1 level of existing spellcasting class
8th	+4	+2	+2	+6	Tomb of night	                +1 level of existing spellcasting class
9th	+4	+3	+3	+6	Ephemeral storm	        +1 level of existing spellcasting class
10th	+5	+3	+3	+7	Shadow double	                +1 level of existing spellcasting class

[CopperElfCleric]

If I understand it correctly, CopperElfCleric calls a wizard [specialization: illusion] who mostly uses Illusion (Phantasm) spells a phantasmist and just assumes that everybody else knows what he's talking about.

He propably has similiar names for "specialists" in other subschools: shadowmage, glamourist, patternist, etc.

Yes, yes. Absolutely. Spot on. Just like the Beguiler, the enchanter, The elementalist. Same concept.

[redking]

May as well post all your homebrew prestige classes in a central thread so people know what you are talking about when you reference them.

[CopperElfCleric]

May as well post all your homebrew prestige classes in a central thread so people know what you are talking about when you reference them.

My bad. thought it was obvious.

[truemane]

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