A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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    Default Re: Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

    Corellia's a pretty old part of the EU and Hal's home planet there, but I mostly know of it because it's the last planet of SWTOR's original class stories, right before Ilum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    Corellia was just referenced in comic. I can't tell if memnarch is being deliberately vague in recognising the word Corellian "from somewhere" or if they're just as forgetful as I am. I had to Google to check if I only knew it from SWTOR, or if I really had seen it only four weeks ago... (The August 14 comic was the one that linked here - I wonder if anyone noticed when it was first published in late July?)

    I'm still fairly sure I've been to Corellia in SWTOR, though. And I don't know if the phrase "Corellian Syndicate" comes from there or from Da&Dr.
    The Millennium Falcon is canonically a Corellian Engineering Corporation YT-1300 Light Transport, something I learned from all the time I spent playing through the whole X-Wing series.
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    "Corellian" - and thus the implied concept of a "Corellia" - first appeared in Star Wars in A New Hope, when Han boasted that "I've outrun Imperial starships - not the local bulk cruisers, mind you; I'm talking about the big Corellian ships, now" while he and Obi-Wan were discussing passage to Alderaan in the Mos Eisley cantina. I don't recall if Han himself was ever identified as being Corellian in the Original Trilogy, but he was certainly accepted as such in the EU very early on.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirKazum View Post
    Also, a "Corellian Corvette" was a popular vessel, don't remember where it was used in the movies but I think it was.
    The term "Corellian corvette" was not to my recollection used in the movies. However, "Corellian Corvette" is one of the more common names that EU material (particularly older EU material, though that may also describe the type of ship as a "Rebel Blockade Runner;" more recent EU material might use some part of "Corellian Engineering Corporation CR90 Corvette" instead) applied to the type of ship which carried Princess Leia in the opening scene of A New Hope; at least one more such vessel appears in Return of the Jedi as part of the Rebel fleet attacking the Death Star at Endor. Tantive IV, the specific corvette featured in A New Hope, reappears at the end of Rogue One and - apparently, despite Darth Vader ordering its destruction during the events of A New Hope - as part of the fleet that shows up to attack Exegol at the end of The Rise of Skywalker.

    The films contain at least two other types of ship, both featured in the Prequel Trilogy, which could fairly reasonably be referred to as "Corellian Corvettes" but which usually aren't what is meant when that term is used:
    - Most reasonably, the Corellian Engineering Corporation CR70 Corvette, a predecessor of the CR90, which featured as Senator Bail Organa's personal starship at the end of Revenge of the Sith.
    - Slightly less reasonably, the Corellian Engineering Corporation Consular-class Cruiser, sometimes also called a "Republic Cruiser," which featured as the type of ship which carried Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi to the Trade Federation command ship over Naboo. This type of ship is canonically unarmed in the standard pre-Clone Wars configuration, so "cruiser" is probably meant to indicate something more along the lines of a pleasure cruiser than the warship classification; given its size and apparent similarity to the CR70 and CR90, a warship version of it would most likely be used for the same roles as these and thus should most appropriately be classified similarly, so it could therefore could be termed a corvette - though Star Wars (especially EU Star Wars) is not especially consistent with its classification conventions.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2022-09-12 at 07:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

    Wow, amazing reply! And yeah, I think the "Corellian Corvette" from the old flight-sim games is specifically the same model of ship as the Tantive IV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by memnarch
    I'm not really sure what Snoke and Kylo count as, if they're Sith or just something else.
    There was only one Sith, and that was Anakin.

    Unless you're talking about the movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 137beth View Post
    There was only one Sith, and that was Anakin.
    But the Sith are just a legend!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    But the Sith are just a legend!
    He was the Legend!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 137beth View Post
    There was only one Sith, and that was Anakin.

    Unless you're talking about the movie.
    In the comic Anakin claims the title of Sith, but really so could any Jedi who wanted to. IIRC D&D doesn't have the Light Side/Dark Side distinction, and thus no real distinction between Jedi and Sith. Anakin was, as far as we know, the first Jedi to claim the title, but you could argue that's just him snapping after everything and that the 'real' Sith are just the Jedi equivalent of Boogeymen.

    Kylo is just a Jedi/Force User (I'm not sure if D&D restricts the title to official Cheddar* Monks).
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    As for Snoke I've forgotten if D&D has established him as a force user, but he gets the same deal.


    As for the movies
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    Kylo is a Dark Jedi and Knight of Ren, which I believe are two different things and not mutually exclusive. If you take TFA era commentary I believe that Snoke is not a Sith but his order, if any, are unknown. By Resurrection of the Emperor he's a Sith in all but name, and possibly a Sith in name as well.


    On that note
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    The comic's Knights of Ren, force users or not? I don't remember them using it explicitly on screen, and they can easily be turned into Kylo's bodyguards or personal hit squad.



    * Which after all these years still sounds nothing like Jedi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
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    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Cheddar* Monks
    * Which after all these years still sounds nothing like Jedi.
    I'm not sure where you're from, but in some Australian accents they're reasonably similar. Probably because we don't pronounce our "I" as either [[aɪ]] or [[ɑɪ]], but with more of an elongated schwa at the start a more closed version of the back vowel, making probably more like [[ʌˑɪ]]; and we don't bother with the rhotic "ar" so we get another vaguely-open back vowel instead. So we get [[ˈdʒe̝dʌˑɪ]] as a half-rhyme with [[ˈtʃe̝dʌ]]. (Apologies to those whose devices won't display IPA.)

    edit: some Australian accents; and I'm not a phonologist so I had to revise this a few times.
    Last edited by theangelJean; 2022-09-21 at 12:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    I'm not sure where you're from, but in some Australian accents they're reasonably similar. Probably because we don't pronounce our "I" as either [[aɪ]] or [[ɑɪ]], but with more of an elongated schwa at the start a more closed version of the back vowel, making probably more like [[ʌˑɪ]]; and we don't bother with the rhotic "ar" so we get another vaguely-open back vowel instead. So we get [[ˈdʒe̝dʌˑɪ]] as a half-rhyme with [[ˈtʃe̝dʌ]]. (Apologies to those whose devices won't display IPA.)

    edit: some Australian accents; and I'm not a phonologist so I had to revise this a few times.
    I live about 150 miles from Cheddar Gorge. While you could mangle the first syllable to be close enough, I've been to where the cheese comes from and there they don't rhyme.

    Like, I legitimately spent years wondering what the bloody cheese that supposedly sounds like Jedi is. You might think it's obvious from the comic, but I'm fairly certain that Jim is not just the kind of player who misremembered names, I'm fairly certain he's the kind of player who'll use a silly term to mess with the GM

    And it might be ten to seven, but I've had a lot of trouble sleeping and could murder an IPA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I live about 150 miles from Cheddar Gorge. While you could mangle the first syllable to be close enough, I've been to where the cheese comes from and there they don't rhyme.
    Okay, now I really want to know what distinction you're making.

    Here's "Cheddar" as pronounced by a local starting at 1:25, and an Australian in the rest of the video - yes, we completely mangle it, but we're using the same phonemes.

    Here's Jedi as pronounced by Alec Guinness starting at 0:17,

    as pronounced by Frank Oz as Yoda starting at 0:51,

    and in a similar Australian accent to the above.

    I can hear the difference between the English, American and Australian accents. But other than the voiced vs unvoiced consonants (CH vs J), I can't hear the distinction within the same accent. Is it a different vowel?
    I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.

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    Default Re: Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

    I'm not on WiFi, so I'll watch later, but in my experience it really is a different vowel sound* (with cheddar having the shorter vowel). I get now that it's an accent dependent joke, but at least for me it wasn't obvious for years.

    * I am not a linguist, this is just guesswork from what I regularly hear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Like, I legitimately spent years wondering what the bloody cheese that supposedly sounds like Jedi is. You might think it's obvious from the comic,
    Was it really years? Jim says “a type of cheese” in #3, and “Cheddar” first in #75 then several times later. That's only half a year.

    Though on the other hand, I still have no idea if Padawan being a “woven rug” and the Sarlacc being a “buttered snail” are supposed to be puns and what they refer to. Plus of course there are lots of strip titles that are obscure puns that refer to song lyrics, and I likely don't understand half of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    Was it really years? Jim says “a type of cheese” in #3, and “Cheddar” first in #75 then several times later. That's only half a year.
    And I was still wondering what cheese Jedi sounds like, because round these parts it doesn't sound like cheddar. To me it just read like Jim trying to mess with the GM by using a random word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    I can't even mangle the "Ch" sound into a "J" listening to the Australian example. In all the videos it's clear people are saying Cheddar and Jedi. I get what they were going for and it works as a "Jim is being weird/dumb" joke, but the pronunciation never worked for me either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    I'm not sure where you're from, but in some Australian accents they're reasonably similar.
    It might just be monophtonghization in jedi producing the same syllable as the terminal one in cheddar (if pronounced in a non-rhotic fashion). I'm no expert on Australian dialects and sociolects, however, so I'm not sure how common smoothing is thereabouts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    I can't even mangle the "Ch" sound into a "J"
    I mean, those two affricates form a voiced/voiceless pair. They couldn't be more similar while still distinct.
    Last edited by Metastachydium; 2022-09-21 at 06:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    It might just be monophtonghization in jedi producing the same syllable as the terminal one in cheddar (if pronounced in a non-rhotic fashion). I'm no expert on Australian dialects and sociolects, however, so I'm not sure how common smoothing is thereabouts.
    That's similar to what I was trying to describe a couple posts ago, until Anonymouswizard said the difference was the first syllable.
    edit: ahh, I wasn't thinking of smoothing, just the rhyming parts of the words up until the ɪ in Jedi. We have some smoothing but not usually for the "I" sound.
    I mean, those two affricates form a voiced/voiceless pair. They couldn't be more similar while still distinct.
    Exactly! Well, almost, "ch" is usually aspirated as well in English. If you whisper "jump" you almost get "chump" - bit more air in the shushing part of the sound, and you're there. In theory. "Jed-" and "Ched-" should be just as similar.

    In practice, given how many different pronunciations of "ch" there are in different languages, I guess I shouldn't be surprised if people form them differently in different dialects as well. Or that there are different vowels to go with them, for that matter.
    Last edited by theangelJean; 2022-09-21 at 07:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    until Anonymouswizard said the difference was the first syllable.
    Citation please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    until Anonymouswizard said the difference was the first syllable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Citation please.
    Ooh! I misinterpreted you, then:

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    While you could mangle the first syllable to be close enough, I've been to where the cheese comes from and there they don't rhyme.
    Right then. I thought you meant that the first syllables were not close enough to even rhyme, unless you mangled them. If it's the "ar" vs the "aye" you're talking about, then no, they don't rhyme. But in General Australian I'd call it close enough to be a half-rhyme, like "clothe" and "close" - same starting vowel sound, different ending. And we elongate the "a" sound in "Cheddar" a tiny bit to make up for dropping the "r".
    Last edited by theangelJean; 2022-09-21 at 10:23 AM.

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    "Cheddar" and "jedi" are not supposed to sound the same, it was a running gag that Jim would provide spontaneous explanation that made no sense. Like "droid" -> "butler", and who can forget "tuna booze oil"?
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    But this raises the question: was Anakin the Leicester Monk? Because Leicester cheese is red (orangish) while Cheddar cheese is white (yellowish).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    But this raises the question: was Anakin the Leicester Monk?
    My guess would be Livarot (take that, France!).

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    If you want an evil cheese for the Sith, I suggest casu marzu.
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    I've still never heard the word "cheddar" pronounced with a hard I sound the way Jedi always is...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    "Cheddar" and "jedi" are not supposed to sound the same, it was a running gag that Jim would provide spontaneous explanation that made no sense. Like "droid" -> "butler", and who can forget "tuna booze oil"?
    Yes, but part of the joke was that tuna booze oil was Ben mishearing the GM describing them stepping on "to Naboo's soil" and Jim providing spontaneous explanation - that made no sense for the situation, but was a plausible description of "tuna booze oil". I've had to go back many times to check that it wasn't Jim who misheard, but it's got to be Ben, as there are only two players plus the GM at that point and they all speak in that panel. In the case of "Jedi" Ben repeated it correctly and it was Jim who misheard.

    Now I'm wondering if he misheard it as "Cheddar-y".
    I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.

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    Is the D&D site down for other people?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 137beth View Post
    Is the D&D site down for other people?
    I'm not having any problems.
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