Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

[theangelJean]

New comic:
Do PIE fighters have a "forward"?
I thought the position of the pilot inside was fairly manoeuvrable.
Also if they were based on pies in the first place, they wouldn't have a "front". Although that might imply that they fly more like saucers, rather than the vertical alignment we normally see them in the films.
X-wings, on the other hand, clearly have an longitudinal axis. Three distinct orthogonal axes, come to that.

[Aeson]

Do PIE fighters have a "forward"?
I thought the position of the pilot inside was fairly manoeuvrable.

TIE Fighter cockpits are never shown rotating independently of the hexagonal wing panels in the movies - whether in the Original or the Sequel Trilogy - and the axis running from the center of the cockpit out the window ahead of the pilot always appears to be aligned with a major axis of the hexagonal wing panels whereas if the cockpit could rotate independently of the wing panels you'd expect that you would at least occasionally see an alignment of the cockpit and the wing panels which isn't that.

Also, other TIE-series craft seen in the films - Darth Vader's fighter, the TIE Bombers (and the blink-and-you'll-miss-it TIE Shuttle, although that one's pretty difficult to make out) seen in The Empire Strikes Back, the TIE Interceptors seen in Return of the Jedi, and most of the EU TIE variants - all have a pretty clear-cut longitudinal axis.

Also if they were based on pies in the first place, they wouldn't have a "front". Although that might imply that they fly more like saucers, rather than the vertical alignment we normally see them in the films.

I don't think that they used pies (or saucers or other similarly-shaped things) as markers for the fighters in the Darths & Droids game, I think Jim just misremembered the name of the fighters and the name that he used is the name that stuck with the group - the GM names the fighters TIE Fighters when the party escapes the Peace Moon, but Jim names the fighters PIE Fighters a session or two later when the Peace Moon scrambles fighters to deal with the Rebel attack.

[MinimanMidget]

I don't think that they used pies (or saucers or other similarly-shaped things) as markers for the fighters in the Darths & Droids game, I think Jim just misremembered the name of the fighters and the name that he used is the name that stuck with the group - the GM names the fighters TIE Fighters when the party escapes the Peace Moon, but Jim names the fighters PIE Fighters a session or two later when the Peace Moon scrambles fighters to deal with the Rebel attack.

As of Rogue One, they were originally named TIE fighters by Jim, then renamed to PIEs by Jim one movie later.

[theangelJean]

I don't think that they used pies (or saucers or other similarly-shaped things) as markers for the fighters in the Darths & Droids game, I think Jim just misremembered the name of the fighters and the name that he used is the name that stuck with the group - the GM names the fighters TIE Fighters when the party escapes the Peace Moon, but Jim names the fighters PIE Fighters a session or two later when the Peace Moon scrambles fighters to deal with the Rebel attack.

Apparently my headcanon is inaccurate. (Also I'd forgotten how long-running this comic was.) I could have sworn there was a fighter misnamed for a food item which was standing in as a mini. But I finally trawled through both sections of the comic you were referring to, and you're right, I was mistaken.

As an aside, I've been pondering the wisdom of having my 8-year-old's first Star Wars experience be Darths and Droids. She loves comics and graphic novels, we've read her all of the OoTS books and 13 volumes of Girl Genius and she regularly re-reads them. She doesn't like live action where there's any kind of danger, so she's not ready for the movies any time soon. We have "8 minute Star Wars stories" (I think it's ages 3+) and she loved that. I'm a bit worried D&D would completely ruin the movies for her - I'm just imagining "they ruined Jar-Jar!" But she walked in while I was archive trawling and read a few pages - I'd started from Ep IV - and now she wants to read from the beginning, so ... Too late?

[Kantaki]

To be fair, it's Jar Jar.
I don't think reading Darths and Droids first will make that experience any worse.
A bigger issue might be that some elements of the comic work better if you know the movies.
("Jar Jar, you are a genius"*, Vader's identity...)

*I still would wear that one as a shirt. Just to see the reactions.

[SirKazum]

I could have sworn there was a fighter misnamed for a food item which was standing in as a mini.

IIRC, the model for the Millennium Falcon comes from a sandwich. I think that little pilot's cabin that sticks out was an olive or something. You could be getting that memory mixed up with the name of the PIE fighters...

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I also want to say that they used food as props in the giant battle of Attack of the Clones, for structures and vehicles. But I'm too lazy to double check that.

[VoxRationis]

They absolutely did that, but that wasn't directly related to the naming of the TIEs/PIEs, given the time gap.'

Edit: Also, during the strips where such food-based representation was happening, all the vehicle classes had very sober, non-food-related names associated with them.

[theangelJean]

I was wondering where everyone went. I went to formulate a reply to memnarch's speculation about what was happening in the movie at this point, but I couldn't actually remember any details other than what we can see in the screen grabs. I'm probably more interested in the comic than the movie itself at the moment, and TFA hasn't yet attained rewatch value yet - compared to the OT where multiple people here know sections by heart, if not the whole thing.

And then a new comic came out. Back in a bit, off to perform chi-squared tests on all my dice ...

[ByzantiumBhuka]

Interesting developments with regard to Corey's video gaming group. I'm betting that'll play into

Spoiler: Episode VIII

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the whole Ahch-To dynamic between Pete and Corey. Some nice parallels to be made between Luke's and Corey's respective guilts.

[Kantaki]

Jim's characters talking about each other is always good.

Also, something I realized on watching Return of the Jedi again (in Concert!*): The biggest weakness of the Emperor wasn't his arrogance, but being incapable of shutting the hell up for five damn minutes!
Seriously, there are several moments where the only reason Luke snaps out of falling only because Palpatine can't keep his trap shut.

And I never realized how funny the whole Ewok battle actually is.
Like, sure, they are ridiculously effective, considering the difference in tech levels, but that's not what I mean.
Even if it is amusing...
But the strategies that don't work? It might be mean, but a fluffy little teddy-bear ineffectually hammering on the foot of a Chicken-Walker with a rock is hillarious.
Mind you, watching with an larger audience probably helped, giggles are infectious.

*Minor drawback was the orchestra playing over the dialouges sometimes, but most people there (and here) probably know those by heart anyway.

[The Glyphstone]

I always like to point out that the Ewoks were only winning for the first few minutes of the battle, when they had surprise and pre-prepared traps. Once those run out its mostly playing out like stone age koalas against soldiers should, until the heroes save the day.

[Aeson]

Also, something I realized on watching Return of the Jedi again (in Concert!*): The biggest weakness of the Emperor wasn't his arrogance, but being incapable of shutting the hell up for five damn minutes!
Seriously, there are several moments where the only reason Luke snaps out of falling only because Palpatine can't keep his trap shut.

It is perhaps worth examining what the Emperor's objective in this fight is, and asking yourself whether or not Luke killing Vader in the heat of the moment, so to speak, is sufficient for that purpose. Sure, Luke would probably regret killing Vader in a fit of rage during that fight for the rest of his life, and sure, someone like Palpatine could probably get some mileage out of throwing that in Luke's face whenever they meet, but it's the sort of thing that, upon reflection, would tend to reinforce the Jedi doctrine of being wary of your emotions and acting only when you're calm and in control of yourself.

What Palpatine really wants out of that fight isn't for Luke to kill Vader but rather for Luke to knowingly and deliberately violate his morals and choose to do (something he considers) wrong. It's one thing for Luke to beat Vader down in a fit of rage; it's something else entirely for Luke, having already beaten Vader in a fit of rage, to cold-bloodedly decide to kill Vader when he's no longer a clear threat. It's why Palpatine tells Luke he's unarmed and defenseless while prompting Luke to attempt to strike him down, it's why Palpatine and Vader keep pushing Luke to fight Vader despite Luke's obvious reluctance, it's why at the end of the fight Palpatine tells Luke to finish Vader off and take Vader's place, because in order for Luke to be well and truly fallen he needs to not only step into the darkness but embrace it.

[Kantaki]

It is perhaps worth examining what the Emperor's objective in this fight is, and asking yourself whether or not Luke killing Vader in the heat of the moment, so to speak, is sufficient for that purpose. Sure, Luke would probably regret killing Vader in a fit of rage during that fight for the rest of his life, and sure, someone like Palpatine could probably get some mileage out of throwing that in Luke's face whenever they meet, but it's the sort of thing that, upon reflection, would tend to reinforce the Jedi doctrine of being wary of your emotions and acting only when you're calm and in control of yourself.

What Palpatine really wants out of that fight isn't for Luke to kill Vader but rather for Luke to knowingly and deliberately violate his morals and choose to do (something he considers) wrong. It's one thing for Luke to beat Vader down in a fit of rage; it's something else entirely for Luke, having already beaten Vader in a fit of rage, to cold-bloodedly decide to kill Vader when he's no longer a clear threat. It's why Palpatine tells Luke he's unarmed and defenseless while prompting Luke to attempt to strike him down, it's why Palpatine and Vader keep pushing Luke to fight Vader despite Luke's obvious reluctance, it's why at the end of the fight Palpatine tells Luke to finish Vader off and take Vader's place, because in order for Luke to be well and truly fallen he needs to not only step into the darkness but embrace it.

Fair enough. I still think less would've been more.
The Dark Side being ultimatly self sabotaging isn't entirely inappropriate though.
I mean, how often did they try that whole "Deathstar" thing*? (What's the definition of insanity again?)

Spoiler: *Sequels

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Counting the fleet in Episode IX that would be four times, I think?
Probably even more if we look at the EU/Legends.
I can think of about five without checking, so higher double digits maybe?

[theangelJean]

Yay, I'm not the only one here!

Pete being the one who fixed the website and is now bringing down the law on the attackers fits with the reveal last campaign that he was previously in IT and is now a lawyer. But I can't help wondering what else is planned and whether his occupation will be even more relevant later on. (I haven't actually seen VIII and IX so I can't spoil anything.)

The out-of-game stuff so far has mainly added to the development of the characters and tied in to the plot of the films - for example the relationship between Annie and Jim being tested out through their game characters, and Ben's career change informing Obi-wan's attitude. But this is the first thing to pull multiple players away from the table. If Pete is taking legal action, what happens if they need to go to court?

I guess it is time we found out more about Corey than just "the new kid who plays computer games" though. Everyone else is a bit more fleshed out.

[137beth]

Spoiler: Episode VII

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My memory's hazy, but wasn't there snow in the lightsaber fight at the end of the movie? I'm guessing the comments about the sun being gone and dropping temperatures are to justify that.

[Aeson]

I'm guessing the comments about the sun being gone and dropping temperatures are to justify [snow at a later point in the movie].

Considering that there's snow on the ground in the part of the Peace Moon where the party is before anything ever happened to the local star, I don't think that that's how they're justifying the snow, nor that they would need such a justification.

[KillianHawkeye]

It's just a cold planet, or at least the part of they're on is.

[Gez]

It's just a cold planet, or at least the part of they're on is.

Planets in Star Wars are single-biome. I think Naboo is the only exception in that it had both water areas and land areas, a positively extravagant variety of biomes. Otherwise you've got desert planet that's all desert, swamp planet that's all swamp, ice planet that's all ice, city planet that's all city, etc.

As for the Peace Moon, it used to be the Forest Moon of Endor, so it went from being all redwood, all the time to now being all snow, all the time. I'm not sure about the reason for the biome conversion, whether it's caused by the destruction of its defense station, the digging of that giant trench, or just the fact it's been turned into a spaceship and is now sailing far away from its sun. Who knows. The important thing is that the Ewoks all froze to death.

[Kantaki]

Who knows. The important thing is that the Ewoks all froze to death.

It's spelled Ewoc*.
And they might've frozen to death, but they made a killing selling those fur blankets.

*Endor World of Opportunity and Commerce

[theangelJean]

New comic.

Yes, that is rather a lot of jacket changing.

[Kantaki]

I really didn't expect that he would take the name stealing any further.

[Anonymouswizard]

I really didn't expect that he would take the name stealing any further.

Spoiler: spoilers for the trilogy

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The Man With No Identity seems like a precursor to Han's death, but I'm betting he actually survives and escapes the forest moon.

I'm telling ya, he turns up in Campaign 9 having stolen the identity of the droid F4K3-N4M3, and reveals to Kylo that he stole his father's identity before he was conceived.

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: spoilers for the trilogy

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reveals to Kylo that he stole his father's identity before he was conceived.

Spoiler: I guess?

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I think a sperm bank would habe to be involved, then.

[Anonymouswizard]

Spoiler: I guess?

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I think a sperm bank would habe to be involved, then.

Spoiler: Ramblings of a madperson

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Not if he's really Rey's half-brother!

Actually, do we have any proof that Rey and/or Kylo aren't adopted in the D&D universe?

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: This scene in the movie

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Spoiler: Seriously, no peeking, commentators

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I wonder how they're going to justify The Man With No Name tenderly caressing Kylo'd face as he dies in this

[Kantaki]

Spoiler: This scene in the movie

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Spoiler: Seriously, no peeking, commentators

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I wonder how they're going to justify The Man With No Name tenderly caressing Kylo'd face as he dies in this

Spoiler

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Jim rolls for seduction?

[Anonymouswizard]

Spoiler: This scene in the movie

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Spoiler: Seriously, no peeking, commentators

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I wonder how they're going to justify The Man With No Name tenderly caressing Kylo'd face as he dies in this

Well clearly-

Spoiler

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Jim rolls for seduction?

You know what, I've changed my mind.

[theangelJean]

New comic. Not sure if this counts as a spoiler but ...

This can't have happened in the movie anywhere close to the comic.

As far as I remember, it happened in the movie almost exactly as it did in this comic.

The context was almost entirely different.

You know, I'm starting to wonder if we need a spoiler Darths and Droids thread as well as a non-spoiler one, like they have at the irregulars forums. Part of the discussion of the comic during the prequel and original trilogies was how they related to and diverged from the movie plots. But doing that now - even in spoiler boxes - just seems rude.

[Fyraltari]

I've got to say, reading Aurilee trying to guess how this scene played out in the movie has been tremendously enjoyable so far.