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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kornaki View Post
    I feel like the starting premise is bad here, you can't actually see a beam of light that bypasses you. Whatever it is, it ain't light that you're seeing cut through space.
    They aren't seeing a beam of light that passes them by - they're seeing beams of light emitted by the massive energy beam fired by the Peace Moon. Which is consistent with the explanation - even if the Peace Moon fired something through hyperspace somehow, you wouldn't be able to see it unless the light it emits also travels through hyperspace for some reason.

    Hence, the only explanation is that the light is normal light which travelled the normal way, and the source of the light traveled back in time 50 years to make it so you can see it.

    Improbable, but still makes more sense than "the light got to you in real time because it's some sort of super-light that traveled across 50-light years in a second and is an incidental byproduct of this superweapon that was designed to destroy stuff instead of making super-light"

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    So, Galen did deliver on what he was asked. You just have to aim it differently than usual.

    The Powerpoint stuff is still a terrible crime, obviously.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Improbable, but still makes more sense than "the light got to you in real time because it's some sort of super-light that traveled across 50-light years in a second and is an incidental byproduct of this superweapon that was designed to destroy stuff instead of making super-light"
    Or "we forgot that light has a speed and does not propagate instantaneously and also the beam travels across space almost instantly because we have no notion of the scales involved in interplanetary travel" which is probably what it was in the movie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    So, Galen did deliver on what he was asked. You just have to aim it differently than usual.

    The Powerpoint stuff is still a terrible crime, obviously.
    How, exactly, would you aim a weapon like that? You'd need to cross-reference historical records going back at least to the time it would (negatively) take for your beam to reach your intended target. And if there's something in the way, you'd have to move it and recalculate.

    Then again they have hyperspace travel.
    I'm pretty much the opposite of concise. If I fail to get to the point, please ask me and I'm happy to (attempt to) clarify.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    How, exactly, would you aim a weapon like that? You'd need to cross-reference historical records going back at least to the time it would (negatively) take for your beam to reach your intended target. And if there's something in the way, you'd have to move it and recalculate.

    Then again they have hyperspace travel.
    You look where you target is now and at what speed it's moving, you plan out its trajectory, you calculate how long it would take for your beam to reach any point on that trajectory and you fire at the place where the two match. Just loke how you'd aim a normal weapon, but in reverse.

    Space is basically just empty stuff with tiny objects floating around separated by huge stretches of nothing. The chance of you accidentally hitting something unintended are (quite literally) astronomically low.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2022-01-18 at 10:09 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Star Wars never really had a clear idea of what "light" is exactly. I mean, they seem to think you can make sabers out of the stuff!


    The whole thing about the Hosnian system exploding in the Takodana night sky is absurd. Even if you use time travel to justify that the photons from the explosions are visible instantaneously 50 LY away, given the distance, it shouldn't be that large in the sky. Just a small point.

    Here's an example. The outermost planet in our Solar system, Neptune, has a major axis (largest diameter) of 60 au. 50 light years is 3162050 au. So if you are 50 light years away from Sol, and looking right at it, all the planets that orbit around our Sun will be in a cosmic cone that originates from your eye, is over three million astronomic units long, and 60 au side at its end. To find out the angle of this cone, you use the arctangent of (60 / 3162050), and long story short, that's about 0.001°. Yay maths! Yay trigonometry!
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    Star Wars never really had a clear idea of what "light" is exactly. I mean, they seem to think you can make sabers out of the stuff!
    It can't have been called a "light" saber because it's a "saber" that glows, a relatively lightweight "saber," a fancy high-tech sword that somehow uses light in its operating mechanism, or for any other reason than that the blade is "made of light?" Is the Darksaber made of "dark?" Are the projectiles/beams produced by turbolasers, laser cannons, and superlasers necessarily lasers despite displaying few of the properties of real lasers?

    The whole thing about the Hosnian system exploding in the Takodana night sky is absurd. Even if you use time travel to justify that the photons from the explosions are visible instantaneously 50 LY away, given the distance, it shouldn't be that large in the sky. Just a small point.
    I'd argue this one's more of a JJ Abrams problem than a Star Wars problem - remember his 2009 Star Trek movie?

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    I'd argue this one's more of a JJ Abrams problem than a Star Wars problem - remember his 2009 Star Trek movie?
    No, because I haven't watched it.

    (Or any other real Star Trek stuff. It's a franchise I only know through cultural osmosis because nerds can't help but talk constantly about Picard and Kirk and Spock and Worf.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    Star Wars never really had a clear idea of what "light" is exactly.
    “Light” is what English-speaking people call lamps that are fixed onto the ceiling or electric torches that you carry with you. So basically any object that deliberately shines bright is called a “light”. In Star Wars, this is applied consistently to glowing hot plasma sword blades and glowing plasma torpedoes shot from blasters or fighter ships.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    I believe they're also called lightsaberz because they're really good at helping you to lose weight. Just ask Anakin, or Luke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I believe they're also called lightsaberz because they're really good at helping you to lose weight. Just ask Anakin, or Luke.
    Darth Maul.
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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    “Light” is what English-speaking people call lamps that are fixed onto the ceiling or electric torches that you carry with you. So basically any object that deliberately shines bright is called a “light”. In Star Wars, this is applied consistently to glowing hot plasma sword blades and glowing plasma torpedoes shot from blasters or fighter ships.
    Did you know the Millennium Falcon is supposedly flying at nearly 50 000 times the speed of light in normal space, on its sub-light engines? True story. That's why it could go to Bespin so quickly without a hyperdrive. Actually, it's not clear at all that hyperspace is needed at all with this kind of speed.

    Note that the X-Wings and TIE fighters are even faster. And people wonder why the empire didn't bother putting hyperspace drives in the TIEs.
    Last edited by Gez; 2022-01-19 at 02:28 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

    Memnarch, this extra is played by Carrie Fischer's real-life daughter. That's it, that's the joke.

    Spoiler: Also, regarding today's comic
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    Is Uncle Owen a shapeshifter, or does he regularly have reconstructive facial surgery?
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2022-01-20 at 08:01 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Spoiler: Also, regarding today's comic
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    , is Uncle Owen a shapeshifter, or does he regularly have reconstructive facial surgery?
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    His wife is a master of disguise, with decades of experience. His face just looks different because he got twenty years older since we last saw him.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    Did you know the Millennium Falcon is supposedly flying at nearly 50 000 times the speed of light in normal space, on its sub-light engines? True story. That's why it could go to Bespin so quickly without a hyperdrive. Actually, it's not clear at all that hyperspace is needed at all with this kind of speed.

    Note that the X-Wings and TIE fighters are even faster. And people wonder why the empire didn't bother putting hyperspace drives in the TIEs.
    What happened to the Falcon just having a backup hyper drive?

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    What happened to the Falcon just having a backup hyper drive?
    An invention of the WEG Star Wars RPG, AFAIK. There's no mention of it in the movies. Granted, there's also no mention of "megalights" in the movies. The point is that it doesn't make sense and if you try to find some consistency or logic, you will have to retcon stuff.

    I just found it funny that on Wookieepedia, someone took a line from one of the Disney canon spinoff novels, and extrapolated from it that the sublight engines go several thousand times the speed of light. That felt like a good encapsulation of how much scientific sense Star Wars makes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    An invention of the WEG Star Wars RPG, AFAIK. There's no mention of it in the movies. Granted, there's also no mention of "megalights" in the movies. The point is that it doesn't make sense and if you try to find some consistency or logic, you will have to retcon stuff.

    I just found it funny that on Wookieepedia, someone took a line from one of the Disney canon spinoff novels, and extrapolated from it that the sublight engines go several thousand times the speed of light. That felt like a good encapsulation of how much scientific sense Star Wars makes.
    Also "megalight" should really equal one million light-something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gez View Post
    That felt like a good encapsulation of how much scientific sense Star Wars makes.
    I think it saves one a lot of heartache to think of Star Wars as a fantasy series that happens to have spaceships and robots rather than sci-fi of any description. I mean, that might be getting into the weeds of what does or doesn't define sci-fi, but I like to think of it that way in terms of intention at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKazum View Post
    I think it saves one a lot of heartache to think of Star Wars as a fantasy series that happens to have spaceships and robots rather than sci-fi of any description. I mean, that might be getting into the weeds of what does or doesn't define sci-fi, but I like to think of it that way in terms of intention at least.
    You're telling that the story about the space-farmboy becoming a space-knight with the help of a space-wizard and a space-knave to rescue a space-princess ins space fantasy? Unbelievable!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    You're telling that the story about the space-farmboy becoming a space-knight with the help of a space-wizard and a space-knave to rescue a space-princess ins space fantasy? Unbelievable!
    Of course not! For fantasy you need a space evil sorcerer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Of course not! For fantasy you need a space evil sorcerer.
    He showed up in the sequels!
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    Quote Originally Posted by theangelJean View Post
    How, exactly, would you aim a weapon like that? You'd need to cross-reference historical records going back at least to the time it would (negatively) take for your beam to reach your intended target. And if there's something in the way, you'd have to move it and recalculate.

    Then again they have hyperspace travel.
    Actually, the target will be in exactly the place you see it in from the position of the weapon, since the light from the target has travelled for the same 50 years the weapon needs to reach it. So what you see is the position of the planet 50 years ago, right before the weapon hit.

    The bigger problem is that you probably can't target it precisely enough considering the distance involved. In billiard, a few millimeters to the left or right can mean the difference between hitting your target or missing it, especially on long pots. In astronomical distances, a millimeter off will probably make you miss your shot by millions of miles.
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    Default Re: Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

    SirKazum: yes, and on the flip side of the coin, it's best to think of Discworld as sci fi that happens to involve dragons and wizards.

    Morgaln: a spacecraft like that would have some capability for course correction built in. You don't have to aim it impossibly precise, it can just correct its direction when it gets closer to the target.

  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Heh, I just realized Darth Vader is the Black Knight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    He showed up in the sequels!
    I was actually referring to Vader. Evil Sorcerers can be martially skilled, and Vader is explicitly referred to as one in the first film. While Palpatine fits the archetype even better, it just means we have two 'evil sorcerer' characters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    Darth Maul.
    Don't forget Obi Wan! Freakin' nothin' left of him but clothes after his light saber diet!
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    Default Re: Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

    I think it saves one a lot of heartache to think of Star Wars as a fantasy series that happens to have spaceships and robots rather than sci-fi of any description. I mean, that might be getting into the weeds of what does or doesn't define sci-fi, but I like to think of it that way in terms of intention at least.
    SirKazum: yes, and on the flip side of the coin, it's best to think of Discworld as sci fi that happens to involve dragons and wizards.
    Personally, I tend to feel that sci-fi and fantasy are essentially the same genre (especially soft sci-fi and readily-available/common-magic fantasy), it's just that one calls its magic 'technology' while the other calls its technology 'magic.' Star Wars and Star Trek have the trappings of a sci-fi setting while Discworld has the trappings of a fantasy setting, more or less, thus Star Wars and Star Trek are (soft) sci-fi while Discworld is fantasy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeson View Post
    Personally, I tend to feel that sci-fi and fantasy are essentially the same genre (especially soft sci-fi and readily-available/common-magic fantasy), it's just that one calls its magic 'technology' while the other calls its technology 'magic.' Star Wars and Star Trek have the trappings of a sci-fi setting while Discworld has the trappings of a fantasy setting, more or less, thus Star Wars and Star Trek are (soft) sci-fi while Discworld is fantasy.
    I mean, Girl Genius has a character essentially transported from 300 years before the main plot refer to mad scientists as wizards, and despite Sparks taking offence to the term it makes complete sense when you look at the objects they make. There's even a near certainty that a prophecy out the rightful king returning might come true, but the behind the scenes work to make that happen is addressed (and the prophecy is almost certainly apocryphal).

    However I personally tend to put Star Wars in the fantasy pile. At lot of it has to do with how the franchise revolves around a pair of religions who's practitioners use magic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I mean, Girl Genius has a character essentially transported from 300 years before the main plot refer to mad scientists as wizards, and despite Sparks taking offence to the term it makes complete sense when you look at the objects they make. There's even a near certainty that a prophecy out the rightful king returning might come true, but the behind the scenes work to make that happen is addressed (and the prophecy is almost certainly apocryphal).

    However I personally tend to put Star Wars in the fantasy pile. At lot of it has to do with how the franchise revolves around a pair of religions who's practitioners use magic.
    I have heard the term Science-Fantasy used for SW in the past.

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    Default Re: Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

    The distinction between sci-fi and fantasy is blurry, but that's not their fault. All genre classification (and to a certain degree, all classification) is like that.

    Where's the line between thriller, detective fiction, spy fiction and horror?
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