Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

[Taevyr]

Time travel might make that slightly less weird.

They should make this into some sort of ground rule for movie directors/writers: if one can say this about the plot of your movie and be correct, you might want to rethink it.

[InvisibleBison]

Spoiler

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They should make this into some sort of ground rule for movie directors/writers: if one can say this about the plot of your movie and be correct, you might want to rethink it.

I'm pretty sure this and the post you quoted should be in spoilers.

[theangelJean]

Spoiler: discussion of what is and isn't a spoiler

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I'm pretty sure this and the post you quoted should be in spoilers.

While the quoted post is from a spoiler section, I thought the time travel element was pretty well established in the current chapter of Darths & Droids. I'm pretty sure that the newbies have heard that the sequel trilogy has something weird going on by now, so the idea that time travel might make something less weird isn't a spoiler in itself?

[SirKazum]

Spoiler: discussion of what is and isn't a spoiler

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While the quoted post is from a spoiler section, I thought the time travel element was pretty well established in the current chapter of Darths & Droids. I'm pretty sure that the newbies have heard that the sequel trilogy has something weird going on by now, so the idea that time travel might make something less weird isn't a spoiler in itself?

Spoiler: Replying to spoilered post inside spoiler

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You may have a point there, but if it were me, I'd still keep it all within spoilers just to be on the safe side. You never know how much this sort of indirect, general comment (which I've done off-spoiler myself, I admit) may color their reading.

That's if they (the "haven't-watched-sequels-stuff" squad) are still reading this thread anyway, with the potential spoiler minefield it can get to be sometimes

[KillianHawkeye]

It's less the firing (though it's on the heavy side) and more the pulling back of the string. Firing an already loaded and ready bowcaster is easier.

I didn't think it actually had a string. It's just a big, crossbow-shaped blaster, isn't it?

[Anonymouswizard]

I didn't think it actually had a string. It's just a big, crossbow-shaped blaster, isn't it?

I believe it actually fires a quarrel. Not sure why, but it apparently does.

[Aeson]

I believe it actually fires a quarrel. Not sure why, but it apparently does.

As for the idea that the bowcaster fires quarrels of some description, Chewie never seems to need to load prior to shooting or reload between shots, there doesn't appear to be room for a magazine - certainly not one large enough to fit something that I'd describe as a quarrel rather than as a bullet - and Chewie doesn't seem to have quarrels on his person (the items on his bandolier are more appropriately sized for magazines for rifle-caliber bullets, if anything, and, again, I can't recall ever seeing him (re)load the bowcaster, so it's not clear that his bandolier actually holds specialized ammunition for the bowcaster), and the audio-visual effects for the bowcaster are very similar to those used for blasters. The idea that bowcaster shots were meant to be fundamentally distinct from blaster shots seems to me more than a little suspect, regardless of what Disney or EU material has to say on the matter.

As to the idea that the bowcaster is a fancy high-tech crossbow, I would point out that the 'bow' and 'bowstring' of Chewie's bowcaster can be observed during firing in the scene where Han fails to sneak up on a scout trooper on the forest moon of Endor, and there is no indication that either so much as twitches during firing. If the bowcaster is a crossbow, then so is a rifle with a recurve bow tied to the barrel.

Pretty much the only reason to think that a bowcaster is anything other than a blaster stylized to look like a crossbow is that it looks something like a crossbow; prior to TFA, there wasn't even any real indication in the films that it was a notably more powerful weapon than for example a stormtrooper's blaster carbine.

[Gez]

I remember reading some description that the globes on the tips of the bow were electromagnet thingies so it worked kind of like a coilgun except without a coil. And yeah, it shoots a fancy hi-tech quarrel that wreathes itself in plasma when accelerated.

It's all a bunch of expanded universe nonsense, to be sure, but that's what happens when you put a plasma crossbow and let other people try to make sense out of it.

[Anonymouswizard]

I never said it made sense. But if you're quibbling about bowcasters firing quarrels then there's some space wizards who'd love to discuss realism with you.

Personally, I assume that it holds just enough quarrels that we never have to see Chewie reload on screen. It's not realistic but it's enough for me.

[Aeson]

I never said it made sense. But if you're quibbling about bowcasters firing quarrels then there's some space wizards who'd love to discuss realism with you.

Personally, I assume that it holds just enough quarrels that we never have to see Chewie reload on screen. It's not realistic but it's enough for me.

In visual media, if you want to have thing A and thing B be two different things, you have to show that they're different; if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and acts like a duck, then it is a duck. If the bowcaster was meant to be a crossbow, it'd act like one; if the bolts it produced were meant to be plasma-coated quarrels rather than blaster bolts then there ought to be something differentiating them from blaster bolts or we ought to see the quarrels or something so that the audience can see that it's not just another blaster variant; instead, we have something that looks like a blaster with a bow attached at the muzzle, which produces bolts that look, sound, and behave like blaster bolts do.

The two most reasonable conclusions to draw from what is shown in the films are that the bowcaster is a blaster stylized to look like a crossbow or that the bowcaster is a weapon which uses a slightly different operating mechanism ('justifying' the bow part of the weapon) to produce the same effect as a blaster - i.e. a bowcaster is to a blaster more or less what coil guns, electromagnetic rail guns, pneumatic guns, and conventional firearms are to one another.

Also, as to your implication that I'm being pedantic and over-analyzing something, my response to you is that an exercise in critical thinking is never wholly wasted whereas blind acceptance of the statements of authority, whether due to respect for that authority or due to apathy or disinterest in the subject matter, breeds a certain laziness of thought - especially when what that authority claims to be the case is so clearly unsupported by the evidence as is the case for the claim that bowcasters are crossbows that coat their quarrels in some kind of plasma. Moreover, suggesting that critical thought either should not or cannot be applied to a setting merely because magic exists within that setting is simply offensive, especially when it comes to something as simple as weapon classification by observable characteristics and there is no indication that the setting's explicit magic has anything to do with the setting's notionally-technological systems.

[memnarch]

Aye, I'm still around, though generally busy enough to only skim the comments and rarely make a post these days. And most of my thoughts about the comic and things end up on website under the comic anyway, so I end up feeling a bit like Old Grandad the Troll sometimes.

[Kantaki]

New comic

Err Phasma?
Before you push the Off-button, please consider what happened to the first Peace Moon. Or the defence station.
Be smart, not Tarkin.

Spoiler: The Force Awakens

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Huh, interesting changes. I think in the movie Phasma caved pretty much immediately to save her bacon, didn't she?
Much better showing here.
Also, better reason to "help".

[137beth]

I'm getting flashbacks to OOTS Book 2.

[Fyraltari]

Wait the pilot on the right doesn't have NPC speech bubbles. Who is that and who is playing him?

[dmmaus]

Wait the pilot on the right doesn't have NPC speech bubbles. Who is that and who is playing him?

Snap Wexley, Sally.

[Fyraltari]

Oh look! The name "First Order" actually makes some sense now!

---

Snap Wexley, Sally.

Thanks!

[SirKazum]

Wait... WAIT!

Spoiler: Big Episode IX spoilers

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Is Palpatine, after he "somehow" returns (I'll never get over that), merely a client who placed a huge order of however many planet-destroying battleships he's got with Nute's organization?

[Fyraltari]

Wait... WAIT!

Spoiler: Big Episode IX spoilers

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Is Palpatine, after he "somehow" returns (I'll never get over that), merely a client who placed a huge order of however many planet-destroying battleships he's got with Nute's organization?

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Possible. He might also be Nute in Palpatine's body.

[137beth]

Spoiler

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Possible. He might also be Nute in Palpatine's body.

Spoiler: Episode IX

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Nute in Palpatine's body seems more likely to me.

[Fyraltari]

Problem is, it's a bit obvious, isn't it? It'd work, but it wouldn't be very surprising.

[b_jonas]

Spoiler: Big Episode IX spoilers

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Is Palpatine, after he "somehow" returns

Spoiler: episode IX

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I still don't understand why some people find Palpatine's return odd.

Palpatine faked his death in the least implausible way. He fell down a hole in his own throne room, so clearly he could have prepared that hole as a way to escape if the situation gets hot. This is in a universe with force fields that slow down your fall, and where Luke fell down a bottomless pit and survived. This is what we normally call a Disney death, its goal is that the villain can either stay dead or be revealed to have survived depending on what works better in a sequel.

Palpatine was already a powerful Force user, studying the secrets of the Dark Side and Dearth Plagueis. So now in Rise of Skywalkre he returned as a Force Lich. Rey revives him deliberately because an undead lich is more powerful than a living human.

Palpatine also acquired the Lost Orb somehow. Instead of putting it in an obvious moon-sized battle station to project power, he hides it in one of a swarm of a thousand identical ships, so that any one of them could be a planet killer and there's no way for the good guys to know which ship that is until it's too late.

[Kantaki]

Spoiler: episode IX

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I still don't understand why some people find Palpatine's return odd.

Palpatine faked his death in the least implausible way. He fell down a hole in his own throne room, so clearly he could have prepared that hole as a way to escape if the situation gets hot. This is in a universe with force fields that slow down your fall, and where Luke fell down a bottomless pit and survived. This is what we normally call a Disney death, its goal is that the villain can either stay dead or be revealed to have survived depending on what works better in a sequel.

Palpatine was already a powerful Force user, studying the secrets of the Dark Side and Dearth Plagueis. So now in Rise of Skywalkre he returned as a Force Lich. Rey revives him deliberately because an undead lich is more powerful than a living human.

Palpatine also acquired the Lost Orb somehow. Instead of putting it in an obvious moon-sized battle station to project power, he hides it in one of a swarm of a thousand identical ships, so that any one of them could be a planet killer and there's no way for the good guys to know which ship that is until it's too late.

Spoiler: Rise of Skywalker

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Or worse, he found a way to copy the Orb.
All those ships could carry one.
If there's only one Orb it's easy, it's on the ship that demonstrated the new super gun.

(Or the Orb's hidden in Palpatine's fortress or wherever and the ships are just relays so he can blow stuff up without risking his energy source.

Huh. Peace Moon III?

[Anonymouswizard]

Spoiler: episode IX

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I still don't understand why some people find Palpatine's return odd.

Palpatine faked his death in the least implausible way. He fell down a hole in his own throne room, so clearly he could have prepared that hole as a way to escape if the situation gets hot. This is in a universe with force fields that slow down your fall, and where Luke fell down a bottomless pit and survived. This is what we normally call a Disney death, its goal is that the villain can either stay dead or be revealed to have survived depending on what works better in a sequel.

Palpatine was already a powerful Force user, studying the secrets of the Dark Side and Dearth Plagueis. So now in Rise of Skywalkre he returned as a Force Lich. Rey revives him deliberately because an undead lich is more powerful than a living human.

Palpatine also acquired the Lost Orb somehow. Instead of putting it in an obvious moon-sized battle station to project power, he hides it in one of a swarm of a thousand identical ships, so that any one of them could be a planet killer and there's no way for the good guys to know which ship that is until it's too late.

Spoiler: Episode IX

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Mostly because Sheev's death was presented as a death, and so people are less annoyed about him returning than him returning without explanation. Meanwhile Luke's survival was clearly shown, they're different situations.

That said I'm not convinced Palpatine will return in Campaign IX. Yes, he could be revived and have ordered a fleet of Star Destroyers with Mute, but he could also be Mute in Palpatine's body or Snoke's original body. Anything is possible.

But if Palpatine does return I'm sure the WIs will actually give an explanation.

[b_jonas]

Spoiler: Episode IX

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But if Palpatine does return I'm sure the WIs will actually give an explanation.

Spoiler: The Last Skywalker movie spoilers

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The part of why Palpatine survived works both in the movies and Da&Dr, but almost everything else about Palpatine differs. His personality is completely different in the comics and the movies. He's still a powerful force user either way. In the movie, he's the master manipulating Snoke and Kylo Ren and Rey. I don't think that will work in Da&Dr, but I have no idea what his role will be and how he's related to the First Order. He might be working together with Rey, given that both of them are played by Pete, but then why does Rey betray and resurrect him?

[Anonymouswizard]

Spoiler: The Last Skywalker movie spoilers

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The part of why Palpatine survived works both in the movies and Da&Dr, but almost everything else about Palpatine differs. His personality is completely different in the comics and the movies. He's still a powerful force user either way. In the movie, he's the master manipulating Snoke and Kylo Ren and Rey. I don't think that will work in Da&Dr, but I have no idea what his role will be and how he's related to the First Order. He might be working together with Rey, given that both of them are played by Pete, but then why does Rey betray and resurrect him?

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When is Palpatine played by Pete?

[b_jonas]

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When is Palpatine played by Pete?

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In the comic version of Episode 9: The Last Skywalker, when he decides to make a better villain character so they don't always have to fight Nute or incompetent villains. He becomes a lich, because his limited success with Chirrut and Rey confirms his previous thoughts that mortal bodies are weak. He min-maxes to research a better form of Force Lightning, at the cost that the heroes can reflect it back to him.

[KillianHawkeye]

Spoiler

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In the comic version of Episode 9: The Last Skywalker, when he decides to make a better villain character so they don't always have to fight Nute or incompetent villains. He becomes a lich, because his limited success with Chirrut and Rey confirms his previous thoughts that mortal bodies are weak. He min-maxes to research a better form of Force Lightning, at the cost that the heroes can reflect it back to him.

Are you from the future?

[b_jonas]

Are you from the future?

No. I came from the past and go to the future.

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: Latest comic, no movie stuff

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Phasma being Valorum/Grievous makes sense and certainly explains the... odd speech pattern. What's interesting is that the comic has treated Phasma as female so far. I guess the organic parts came from a woman, but does that "make" Valorum trans, or does he still sees himself as a man and never bothered to explain to anyone. Or maybe they don't care about gender at all?

[Metastachydium]

Spoiler: Latest comic, no movie stuff

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Phasma being Valorum/Grievous makes sense and certainly explains the... odd speech pattern. What's interesting is that the comic has treated Phasma as female so far. I guess the organic parts came from a woman, but does that "make" Valorum trans, or does he still sees himself as a man and never bothered to explain to anyone. Or maybe they don't care about gender at all?

Spoiler

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Well, she(?)'s mostly a robot and considers robotic creatures inherently superior to organic ones. Robots "reproduce" asexually, so gonochorism should be of precious little interest to her(?); consequently, a linguistic category that is ultimately a means of giving (perceived) sex a grammatical marker in language might not be something she(?) cares about much. Also, he wasn't supposed to be female, Annie.