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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Since this is apparently a One Piece thread now (come back tomorrow, it will be a Star Wars thread), could Luffy have gotten that knife scar before he gained his magic fruit powers?
    Yes.

    Like immediately before it. He stabbed himself in the face* to prove to Shanks how tough he was, and then pretty much straight after that stole and ate the devil fruit (he still has the plaster on his face).



    * This is the real reason taking Django's chakram to the back of the head didn't worry him much, there ain't a lot of brain in there.

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Taevyr View Post
    For comic characters: Plastic Man. Morrison made a point of it in his JLA run that it's mainly his goofy personality holding him back, as he's terrifying when he gets serious: his stretching ability is functional shapeshifting, due to him "having complete control over his molecular structure". Functionally, this means he can shapeshift without any constraints in size or form, and he once commented the hardest part of imitating a person is properly stretching vocal cords to imitate their voice. He's got some degree of superhuman agility and can add muscle to gain superhuman strength (to a degree) as well. The only drawback is that he tends to keep the colours of his outfit/body, but whenever he needs to get serious he can change even that with a bit of effort. He can pretend to be anyone and anything, and is brilliant at it when his goofiness doesn't get in the way. And he doesnt even need to imitate people or things to stay beneath notice: he's infiltrated areas or meetings by simply hiding inside someone and waiting.

    Additionally, he's essentially indestructible: Batman's secret plan to defeat him in Tower of Babel involved deep-freezing and shattering him as nothing else would work. When Ra's al Ghul did exactly that, he was perfectly fine after the Flash puzzled him back together aside from the emotional trauma. Heat melts him, but even then he can still slither around and eventually returns to normal. During a JLA adventure that involved travelling to Atlantis 3000 years in the past, he was ripped to crumbs and scattered across the atlantic ocean: the league returned to the present thinking he was dead, while he managed to pull himself together a few days after they returned, having spent the past 3000 years doing so.

    Also, he's immune to mind control due to his brain not being organic anymore, and functionally immortal due to the rest of him not being organic either.

    As for mundane abilities: he was a quite capable professional thief before he gained his powers, and regularly mentions that he essentially still has the mindset of a criminal and a thief: in Injustice, he single-handedly broke out every superhero and -villain locked up in the Regime's prison at the bottom of the Mariana Trench by knocking out the flash by "infiltrating his windpipe", pretending to be the Flash in a meeting with Cyborg to "discuss potential points of entry for Plastic-man" and thus being told by Cy where he could access the prison, and then infiltrating the place. When the dome was pierced by Sinestro, he sealed it with himself and still got away once everyone else had left.
    Very much this. Don't forget that also in the Injustice verse Batgirl describes him as one of the most powerful beings on the planet.
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  3. - Top - End - #63
    Banned
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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Vahnavoi View Post
    God damn it people, you aren't talking of the same thing I am.

    Tankobon volume 4, page 153. Luffy gets directly hit in the back of his head. He takes the chakram off and walks off with a minor cut. In volume 5, page 74, he catched Captain Kuro as Kuro is slashing him across his torso, once again surviving with minor cuts.

    If that's not proof of beyond human durability against slashing attacks, what is?
    He's clearly beyond "real life" human durability to cutting attacks. Just like everyone else in his setting and any comic ever. Pre-haki he has no more explicit resistance to cutting attacks than any other named character in his setting. Sure, shonen characters are tougher than real humans, but it's not an actual part of his power set. It's like how Batman can have his head smashed into concrete hard enough to shatter it and keep standing, yet still be a normal human within the setting.

    His real super power is being stupid enough to think that drinking milk or eating meat heals wounds and somehow warping reality so it works.

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    He's clearly beyond "real life" human durability to cutting attacks. Just like everyone else in his setting and any comic ever. Pre-haki he has no more explicit resistance to cutting attacks than any other named character in his setting. Sure, shonen characters are tougher than real humans, but it's not an actual part of his power set. It's like how Batman can have his head smashed into concrete hard enough to shatter it and keep standing, yet still be a normal human within the setting.

    His real super power is being stupid enough to think that drinking milk or eating meat heals wounds and somehow warping reality so it works.
    I have now headcanoned that his devil fruit has Awakened already and he can "stretch" reality to cause things like that.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    A problem with discussing "underestimated" in terms of comic book characters is that the rules (and the canon) are so fuzzy that writers can pretty much always justify whatever they want a superhero to be able to do. "Underestimated" implies that there's a power level that we don't acknowledge or that somehow holds up in that universe's rigid power structures, but those don't really exist in comic books so it's difficult to both identify an underestimated character and also not find a story in which they're actually given their time to shine.

    I can't remember where, but I read a comment about a Flash v. Superman fight once that said "Superman is undeniably stronger than any other member of the Justice League, unless a writer wants him not to be." Batman will always have a gadget, the Flash will always just go faster, etc. The physical laws of the universe will allow this no matter what, because they're more malleable in comic books than in any other genre of fiction: the only real question is whether or not the writers will be able to sell this victory to the audience.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Mordar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    A problem with discussing "underestimated" in terms of comic book characters is that the rules (and the canon) are so fuzzy that writers can pretty much always justify whatever they want a superhero to be able to do. "Underestimated" implies that there's a power level that we don't acknowledge or that somehow holds up in that universe's rigid power structures, but those don't really exist in comic books so it's difficult to both identify an underestimated character and also not find a story in which they're actually given their time to shine.

    I can't remember where, but I read a comment about a Flash v. Superman fight once that said "Superman is undeniably stronger than any other member of the Justice League, unless a writer wants him not to be." Batman will always have a gadget, the Flash will always just go faster, etc. The physical laws of the universe will allow this no matter what, because they're more malleable in comic books than in any other genre of fiction: the only real question is whether or not the writers will be able to sell this victory to the audience.
    This is part of why I considered "underestimated" to mean "underestimated by the general real-world public"...not by the in-the-know or long-term comics fans, by the writers, or by "in-universe" fictional people. Using net-average power (not internet-average ) understanding or opinion of the characters, which are the furthest from net-expert power understanding/opinon.

    That does kind of limit us to big name characters, so obviously we have to scale it to account for characters like Purple Man.

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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    TeChameleon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ionathus View Post
    A problem with discussing "underestimated" in terms of comic book characters is that the rules (and the canon) are so fuzzy that writers can pretty much always justify whatever they want a superhero to be able to do. "Underestimated" implies that there's a power level that we don't acknowledge or that somehow holds up in that universe's rigid power structures, but those don't really exist in comic books so it's difficult to both identify an underestimated character and also not find a story in which they're actually given their time to shine.

    I can't remember where, but I read a comment about a Flash v. Superman fight once that said "Superman is undeniably stronger than any other member of the Justice League, unless a writer wants him not to be." Batman will always have a gadget, the Flash will always just go faster, etc. The physical laws of the universe will allow this no matter what, because they're more malleable in comic books than in any other genre of fiction: the only real question is whether or not the writers will be able to sell this victory to the audience.
    Eh- I was mostly thinking of a handful of different things- characters who perform consistently lower than a handful of dramatic spikes in power (Iceman being the poster child for this), characters who some writers (but not all) seem to think sort of suck and so write them at a lower level, and, of course, characters like Aquaman who the general public thinks 'Super Friends' when his canonical portrayal in his home media is more 'kicks Cthulhu's *** on an annual basis'.

    ... kind of heroic jobbers, I guess?
    Last edited by TeChameleon; 2021-09-03 at 09:11 PM.
    Times being what they are, the stars aligning and the End of All Things barely registered as background noise.

    At a bit of a loss as to what to do next, and with bills to pay, a certain Elder Thing has taken up bartending.

    This is...

    The Last Call of Cthulhu

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Lord Raziere's Avatar

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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    Quote Originally Posted by TeChameleon View Post
    Eh- I was mostly thinking of a handful of different things- characters who perform consistently lower than a handful of dramatic spikes in power (Iceman being the poster child for this), characters who some writers (but not all) seem to think sort of suck and so write them at a lower level, and, of course, characters like Aquaman who the general public thinks 'Super Friends' when his canonical portrayal in his home media is more 'kicks Cthulhu's *** on an annual basis'.

    ... kind of heroic jobbers, I guess?
    A lot of shonen side characters could probably qualify.

    Sure someone like Tenten or Choji aren't going to face chakra parasite gods any time soon but if you met them on the job, it'd better not be a mission to assassinate you because they still are badass ninja trained from childhood to use lethal weapons to fight and kill.
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2021-09-03 at 09:35 PM.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: Consistently Underestimated super-characters

    Moon Knight, seems like a Batman ripoff, but he has super powers (occasionally).

    He can drain someone's powers/abilities by touch. He once stole Thor's name briefly to wield Mjonor, this was Age of Khonshu arc when he was acting as Avatar of his god. Since if "he is Thor", he can wield it.
    But that arc is over so, don't expect that feat anymore.

    When Moon is full he has Hulk Strength, but without that he can usually lift at least 450 pounds due to his god.

    Granted, he (and everyone else) thinks he is crazy since he sees to talk to himself (talking to his god that only he can see).

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