What Are You Playing 5: New Thread+

[Zevox]

So, after playing through Psychonauts 2, and seeing how cheap the original was on PSN, I decided to pick that up, and just finished re-playing it. Honestly, I was surprised by how much clunkier it was than I remember. I mean, yeah, it's a PS2/X-Box era game, but still, I genuinely thought it was closer in overall feel to the sequel than it really is. The lock-on mechanics and camera in particular caused plenty of problems for me that were not present in the sequel at all, and everything about the movement - especially on your levitation ball - felt stiffer. And oh god, I'd forgotten what a PITA the Meat Circus was. I mean, I vaguely remembered it being hard, but mostly I recalled the sequence where you're ascending the circus while the water rises below you; but worse than that part were the escort sequence and the rail grinding sequence, which had me cursing the game.

All in all, while still a good game, the only thing I can really give it over its sequel is that the Milkman Conspiracy is still the best level in the series.

Also, still playing Nickelodeon All-Stars online. Its performance is not as consistently good as I'd been hoping, and it's annoyingly a lot harder to find matches quickly sometimes than I'd expect for a week-old game, but it's performing well enough on average to keep me playing. I feel like I've gotten a decent hang of Toph, so I've dabbled a bit with other characters the last couple of days - Aang, Korra, and Danny Phantom. All fun, although honestly Aang and Danny have a lot of moves that are fairly standard across a lot of the game's characters, so they can feel a bit similar to play at times. Especially when juggling opponents with up light attacks. Which makes me like Korra a bit more than them, since she at least has a couple of more unique mechanics in her favor - even if she's still not nearly as unique feeling as Toph.

Speaking of, I am kind of disappointed with both Aang and Korra's movesets, especially compared to Toph's. Both of their bending is largely relegated to just "punch/kick with elemental effect on it," rather than anything bigger or more creative. Hell, neither of them so much as has a projectile move. Aang gets his Air Scooter, but it's a kind of a mediocre, awkward to use move; and otherwise his biggest airbending technique is to blow a little gust of wind out of his mouth for his down strong attack. And Korra's only move that isn't mostly just a punch or kick is her down special, where she skates across the ground by bending the earth itself... which to my recollection was Toph's technique in the show, not hers, and isn't that good of a move anyway.

By comparison, Toph throws boulders, forms earth platforms under her feet in the air, heaves huge chunks of earth out of the ground, and creates earthen statues to strike her opponents - yeah, she actually plays like I was expecting the benders to, doing cool things with her bending. I mean, I do still enjoy playing Aang and Korra, but damn do I wish they'd gotten the same kind of treatment as Toph.

[factotum]

It turns out that act bosses in Diablo 2 really don't have an answer for a Sorceress hiding around the corner dropping constant Hydras on them...those have to have been the easiest boss fights ever. And Frozen Orb is so good against large groups of monsters it's hard to decide which one to max out first!

[BloodSquirrel]

Anyone know any hack+slash games with actual gameplay deeper than PoE or Diablo style where you just run into your enemy and hope you have the stats to win? I'm talking about actual dodge mechanics and such.

I mean... if you try that in later Acts in PoE (or in the endgame) you'll get splattered pretty quickly. Dodging is pretty important in PoE past the first couple of acts.

[Man_Over_Game]

For me, Shadow of War had everything I wished the original was going to have, since my three complaints about the first game was that it was too short, got way too easy once you upgraded into a unstoppable force of absolute destruction, and you never really got to do much with that army you spent half the game building.

My big complaint with it is how long it friggin' takes. Between all of the cutscenes and starter missions, it takes a long-ass time before you get to the meat-and-potatoes part of the game where you're capturing forts and developing an army, which is a damn shame for folks who already were getting used to it from the first game.

Overall, though, I thought it was an improvement to the first. It doesn't feel like much more than 'more', but improving on perfection is still an impressive feat.

[GloatingSwine]

I mean... if you try that in later Acts in PoE (or in the endgame) you'll get splattered pretty quickly. Dodging is pretty important in PoE past the first couple of acts.

TBH it probably won't get you past the second screen of PoE once you run into the league mechanic which is always tuned way higher than acts.

You do, of course, need to focus on your stats because if you don't have enough life and resists everything will one shot you not just elites, but PoE is such rocket tag from so early in that if you're not getting out of the way of almost all attacks you're going to be dying over and over.

[Anteros]

TBH it probably won't get you past the second screen of PoE once you run into the league mechanic which is always tuned way higher than acts.

You do, of course, need to focus on your stats because if you don't have enough life and resists everything will one shot you not just elites, but PoE is such rocket tag from so early in that if you're not getting out of the way of almost all attacks you're going to be dying over and over.

Always love comments like this. Like I haven't played past the second screen of PoE and am completely ignorant of it. It's a massively popular game. It's probably safe to assume that people talking about it have actually played it.

Sure, you have to dodge some things. Especially from elites and bosses. There is still a lot of just walking into a mess of enemies and watching them explode. To the point where it makes up the majority of gameplay. It's boring. Or at least I'm bored of it.

Honestly, PoE is always such a cluster on the screen that it just doesn't feel good to me to play. Half the time you can't even tell what hit you when you do get hit. Even watching pro players stream it's common to see them die and not even know what killed them.

[BloodSquirrel]

Always love comments like this. Like I haven't played past the second screen of PoE and am completely ignorant of it.

So... don't say objectively incorrect things about it? There are a lot of reasons why PoE might not be your style of game, but there certainly isn't a lack of dodging in in. Even normal enemies can splatter you if you don't splatter them first. Or they can splatter you from off-screen sometimes.

[Thomas Cardew]

For me, Shadow of War had everything I wished the original was going to have, since my three complaints about the first game was that it was too short, got way too easy once you upgraded into a unstoppable force of absolute destruction, and you never really got to do much with that army you spent half the game building.

-snip-

Anyway, eventually an update allowed recruiting Uruks from online play, so you can grab stupidly powerful followers by avenging or invading someone who has strong captains in their game... assuming you can actually take them down. One of the main differences between the two games is that once you've become an unbelievable killing machine, the sequel has enemies who can still challenge you, which is something I really wanted in the original.

-snip-

I think they're crazy for taking that option away.

So I am enjoying myself. There are definitely some flaws and sticking points but if what you wanted was more (yes), harder (yes), and to use your army (meh, personally I preferred to clear to board and go solo) it definitely delivered on those fronts.

I haven’t seen many/any good uruks in the few online vendetta missions or invasions I’ve done so far. Most vendettas have been against trivial Uruks that I suspect just managed to gank someone speed running through. The hardest was an arrow immune that was weak to executions… The online siege was against someone who’d done shoved the best of the junk uruks in that they had. A couple of arrow immune but flammables, a sickly, etc.

Agreed! That sounds awesome!
 

As someone with several complete playthroughs of Shadow of War, I'll warn you Brutal was the least fun difficulty. I played through the game on Gravewalker and Brutal once each just to see if I could do it, but Nemesis was the difficulty I was wishing for since the first game. Fights on Nemesis are challenging and can be overwhelming if you make mistakes or get surprised, but Nem isn't punishing or unfair like the highest difficulties are designed to be.

Yeah, I tried our Brutal because I'm actually usually a fan of "Take more damage deal more damage" game modes (eg. Heaven or Hell in Devil May Cry 3, Critical Mode in Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix+) but it just feels like such a slog, especially since you don't start out with things I'm pretty sure you started with in the first game (like EXECUTIONS of all things). Think I'll torque it down because I was very much not having fun.

So I stuck out brutal and am solidly in the mid game. The beginning on brutal… just sucked. You don’t have any of the tools you need. You literally get one shot by captains and 2 shot by grunts. You can easily attract an extra captain because you don’t damage fast enough. Die to the same captain several times and he grows out of control.

The decision to not give you XP for killing grunts hurts most here. I think it was a really bad choice. At the beginning, it’s annoying because you only get XP for missions and captains and it railroads you onto the story to get your necessary unlocks. Later, it’s annoying because you only get XP for missions and captains so why would I waste time clearing trash? Which is sad because it’s a lot of fun, it’s too bad that the devs made it feel like a waste of time.

After you hit about lvl 10-20 and get a bunch of skill points things become more manageable. I think the big unlocks for me were fatal might/counter to clear out trash and do damage faster since I’m already getting 1 and 2 shot. Plus all the just basic things like … ranged detonate and executions. There’s still some unfair moments, particularly coming out of last stands.

That said my biggest nemeses in the game are… slightly uneven ground and loss of camera control. Run up on a pile of rubble and you get stuck rolling against an invisible wall instead of jumping off. Movement in general is amazing so when it sucks it really sucks. Normally you can flip, dash, and jump with freedom I imagine a spiderman game would envy. Then there’s the times I spent 10 seconds rolling into a wall instead of climbing up it… Or when I’m running away, only to get forced to spin around because another captain showed up, or someone caught fire, or enraged. And now I’m facing the wrong direction. Or when Bruz immediately shows up post fight … at least he usually left me smiling, his voice actor was great.

[NeoVid]

Getting legitimately good Uruks when you're first building your army does take some luck, just because there's less to choose from and they're much weaker at low levels... which is why I got addicted to the Fight Pits minigame when I started out. I spent a crazy amount of time leveling my troops by playing Orcémon. Took me a while to realize that the rules are pretty different in the Fight Pits than in the open world, a lot of abilities are deactivated there, such as any summoning skill... But eventually I learned to just throw my most expendable losers in the Fight Pits, so they'd either win and get better, or die to someone I could recruit in their place. Getting some Fight Pits victories is also an advantage because it unlocks fortress upgrades, which will be invaluable later.

By the way, I mentioned that there's a technique for getting your followers +20 levels in a single mission. It's actually simple, and also powerlevels Talion, so let me explain:

Find an uruk with an easily triggered Mortal Fear, like fear of burning, or fear of one of the monsters you can get the ability to summon. Level him up by challenging him with a death threat, and then let him kill you. Now you've got an enemy with an unfairly high level advantage... who can also be forced to retreat when you use a single ability against him. Start ordering any of your troops who need levels to attack him, then as soon as the mission starts, set off his Mortal Fear. Your guy will instantly win the mission since his opponent retreated, gain a ton of levels due to his target's level advantage, and you'll get a pile of XP for Talion while you're at it.

Useful side effects of this method: The allied captains you level this way are very likely to develop the trait Hatred of Cowards, which is an excellent enrage effect, they'll gain a bunch of loyalty thanks to you assisting them in their missions, and... well, the number of interactions you'll have with the target you're exploiting will make him despise you so much it'll have some effects I don't wanna spoil.

[Rynjin]

That said my biggest nemeses in the game are… slightly uneven ground and loss of camera control. Run up on a pile of rubble and you get stuck rolling against an invisible wall instead of jumping off. Movement in general is amazing so when it sucks it really sucks. Normally you can flip, dash, and jump with freedom I imagine a spiderman game would envy.

Yeah, no. NONE of the Spider-man games envy the level of movement available in Shadow of War, except MAYBE the one for the N64? It especially doesn't hold a candle to the newer PS4 one.

It's not nearly as good as a ton of other games I've played either in terms of movement. It's a slightly jankier Assassin's Creed in that regard.

[factotum]

Find an uruk with an easily triggered Mortal Fear, like fear of burning, or fear of one of the monsters you can get the ability to summon. Level him up by challenging him with a death threat, and then let him kill you. Now you've got an enemy with an unfairly high level advantage... who can also be forced to retreat when you use a single ability against him. Start ordering any of your troops who need levels to attack him, then as soon as the mission starts, set off his Mortal Fear. Your guy will instantly win the mission since his opponent retreated, gain a ton of levels due to his target's level advantage, and you'll get a pile of XP for Talion while you're at it.

In Shadow of Mordor it was possible for an orc to lose their disadvantages if they killed you and levelled up, does that not happen in Shadow of War?

[Erloas]

The difficulty swings on Back 4 Blood seem pretty big, some runs it seems like there isn't much between safe rooms, and others just tear teams up.
It is hard to judge though because the quality of players changes so drastically from one round to the next, since I'm playing with randos. That is to be expected, but even being well out of practice for shooters I've ran into a lot of players that I can tell are just bad. The game is fun when you find some good players though.

[NeoVid]

In Shadow of Mordor it was possible for an orc to lose their disadvantages if they killed you and levelled up, does that not happen in Shadow of War?

They will get stronger (sometimes a lot stronger, I've seen a Berzerker go from having 3 Enrage traits to *7*), but the chance of them losing a mortal weakness looks to be very low. I think I've seen it happen once or twice in all my playthroughs.

Of course, now that I've said that, the RNG will go completely against everyone here who tries the exploit, but that's the way it is.

[Anteros]

So... don't say objectively incorrect things about it? There are a lot of reasons why PoE might not be your style of game, but there certainly isn't a lack of dodging in in. Even normal enemies can splatter you if you don't splatter them first. Or they can splatter you from off-screen sometimes.

Because it doesn't have proper dodge mechanics. Sure, you'll die if you stand in fire or something. Or stand still and let an enemy beat on you. Or more likely just because you can't see what's happening due to the sheer amount of visual vomit on the screen. But proper dodge mechanics? No.

If you just consider Diablo/WoW style "don't stand in the glowy stuff" as dodging then it qualifies I guess, but that wasn't what I was looking for. It's literally exactly what I was trying to rule out when I said I wasn't looking for games where you just walk into enemies and survive based on stats. There's a reason glass cannon builds aren't a thing in games like PoE even outside of hardcore. Dodging isn't really a thing. You're going to have to facetank damage at some point.

[Anonymouswizard]

You don't need a dedicated dodge move to dodge property. It helps, especially if it has Invincibility frames, but it's not a requirement for proper dodging.

That said, in my current DMC5 playthrough I'm only using normal dodges if an enemy enters a state where they don't stagger (at least from Yamato hits), otherwise I just try to Air Trick through the attack. I did use Dante's Trickster dash more, but I still often defaulted to Air Trick over it. I've also noted that Judgement Cut could potentially be used as a dodge, but I don't have the timing down to pull it off.

Also, although it's been a while since I played it, didn't Diablo 3 have a dodge move? Or am I misremembering, I swear the right stick had a short ranged dash with Invincibility frames.

[BloodSquirrel]

Sure, you'll die if you stand in fire or something. Or stand still and let an enemy beat on you.

It's literally exactly what I was trying to rule out when I said I wasn't looking for games where you just walk into enemies and survive based on stats.

These two things are not compatible. You've really got no business being snippy with other people for not knowing what you meant when what you said was the exact opposite.

[Cespenar]

And now I’m facing the wrong direction. Or when Bruz immediately shows up post fight … at least he usually left me smiling, his voice actor was great.

The VAs/orcs' characterizations/humor combo was what gave the game its extra spice, really, in my opinion. Rarely did any "action" game put an actual smile on my face but this series.

[Resileaf]

Also, although it's been a while since I played it, didn't Diablo 3 have a dodge move? Or am I misremembering, I swear the right stick had a short ranged dash with Invincibility frames.

The demon hunter did. Most classes have a dodge of some kind, but I imagine you're thinking specifically of the demon hunter.

[Man_Over_Game]

The demon hunter did. Most classes have a dodge of some kind, but I imagine you're thinking specifically of the demon hunter.

He's referring to the dodge roll that console players could use with the right joystick. It was an attempt to help console players compensate for the lack of accuracy that PC players would get with the mouse. The dodge was finnicky, had lag frames, and it only ever made you dodge basic attacks (not special abilities). It basically just made your Dodge chance 100% for a second. Generally-speaking, you were just better off running away.

What Anteros is referring to are things that are a lot more responsive, where reaction time and precision matters a lot more. D3 and PoE are not those kinds of games, where something like Hades is.

[Resileaf]

Oh, huh. I had no idea that console Diablo 3 made that kind of change.

[Man_Over_Game]

Oh, huh. I had no idea that console Diablo 3 made that kind of change.

Yeah, it could only roll in 4 different directions, relative to the direction you were already facing while maintaining that facing. That way, you could roll to the side or backwards without ever changing your facing (so you could keep spamming Arcane Orb, I guess?). It was still pretty useless and dumb, though, since it doesn't take much to Teleport behind you and then turn around to keep blasting.

That being said, console D3 has better multiplayer (being forced onto the same screen means you're always working with your friends instead of playing several solo games simultaneously) and the classes that don't rely on precision feel a lot more enjoyable (like the Barbarian or Wizard). Of course, the classes that do rely on a lot of precision (Demon Hunter, Monk) feel a lot worse. It was interesting how different it felt despite how few differences there were.

[Anteros]

These two things are not compatible. You've really got no business being snippy with other people for not knowing what you meant when what you said was the exact opposite.

Context matters. Other people seem to have understood me well enough. You're right that I could have probably been clearer though.

[NRSASD]

Finished Echoes of the Eye and it was glorious. I finished Outer Wilds and was thoroughly pleased with what was on offer, so a second helping of delightful goodness was unexpected but thoroughly appreciated.

Really, really liked the themes that it covered. The wife and I discussed all the various bits of the story over the following three days, and now we’re waiting with bated breath for our friends to finish it so we can chat with them about it.

Playing Deep Rock Galactic once again. It’s probably my favorite cooperative game right now.

[Man_Over_Game]

Finished Echoes of the Eye and it was glorious. I finished Outer Wilds and was thoroughly pleased with what was on offer, so a second helping of delightful goodness was unexpected but thoroughly appreciated.

Really, really liked the themes that it covered. The wife and I discussed all the various bits of the story over the following three days, and now we’re waiting with bated breath for our friends to finish it so we can chat with them about it.

Playing Deep Rock Galactic once again. It’s probably my favorite cooperative game right now.

I will have to get that for me and my wife, it looks like a blast.

You should check out It Takes Two. Seems like it'd be right up your alley.

[Dire_Flumph]

Finished Echoes of the Eye and it was glorious. I finished Outer Wilds and was thoroughly pleased with what was on offer, so a second helping of delightful goodness was unexpected but thoroughly appreciated.

Really, really liked the themes that it covered. The wife and I discussed all the various bits of the story over the following three days, and now we’re waiting with bated breath for our friends to finish it so we can chat with them about it.

I mostly loved Echoes of the Eye, but I had to leave it for gaps of time and come back because

Spoiler: Echoes of the Eye spoilers

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I got really frustrated with the Shadow World portions. A lot of what I love about the game was suddenly taken away, everything is dark making exploration more of a chore than a wonder, and your jetpack is gone removing the freedom of movement you enjoy in the rest of the game. And then you have to avoid enemies all of a sudden, turning things into a frustrating game of repetition stealth.

But in the end, I did love it and I'm replaying the main game over again now (turns out I forgot a lot of specific puzzle solutions in the last 2 years). Adds more than I thought it would to the lore of the game and gave me a lot to mull over afterwards. Easily one of the best games of the last five years or so, and the DLC was a great addition.

[NeoVid]

The VAs/orcs' characterizations/humor combo was what gave the game its extra spice, really, in my opinion. Rarely did any "action" game put an actual smile on my face but this series.

Oh yes, the personalities and emergent stories you get out of them are one of the truly great things about the game. Feels weird now that I was uncertain about that at first. I kind of thought they were going too far when I learned they had a professional comedian voice a joke orc, The Agonizer... but I changed my mind when Mr The Agonizer happened to be overlord of one of the zones I was taking over, and his line when I was about to kill him was, "Hey, if you let me go, you'll *really* scare the other orcs by being such an unpredictable wild man!"

[Zevox]

After finishing Psychonauts, I decided I want to replay the 2018 God of War. Partly to refresh my memory of the story for when Ragnarok hits next year, partly just to re-experience a great game.

And yeah, it is striking just how immediately you can tell how damn good this thing is. There's subtlety for the writing of Kratos' relationship with Atreus right from the get-go, with him struggling with his inability to express his actual feelings to the boy, or really any feelings at all other than anger, and trying his damnedest to keep that particular feeling in check whenever it rears its ugly head. Everything looks great, and the gameplay feels wonderful, so smooth and responsive. I've actually turned the difficulty up compared to my first time through, to the "Give me a Challenge" difficulty (basically Hard), and it's certainly noticeable. Enemies are definitely more numerous and hit a lot harder, and I think they may be a bit more aggressive as well, though with being over three years since I last played it that could also be misremembering. And yet it's one of those games that can be hard as hell, yet never truly frustrating, between those great controls and the very well-done, satisfying combat system. One of those kinds of games where losing a fight a couple of times just makes eventually overcoming it that much more satisfying.

It's just such a wonderful game. Hard to believe it spawned from the same series as the original God of War trilogy, which, while fun action games, were never nearly this good in so many ways. Especially the writing - this is by far the biggest jump in writing quality within any game series that I can think of. I'm not far in (just met the second of the Dwarf brothers), but I very much look forward to seeing it all again. And I really hope that its sequel can live up to it next year.

[Frozenstep]

Finished Echoes of the Eye and it was glorious. I finished Outer Wilds and was thoroughly pleased with what was on offer, so a second helping of delightful goodness was unexpected but thoroughly appreciated.

Really, really liked the themes that it covered. The wife and I discussed all the various bits of the story over the following three days, and now we’re waiting with bated breath for our friends to finish it so we can chat with them about it.

Spoiler: Echoes of the eye spoilers

Show

Glorious indeed. I find myself relating to that one alien you can find in endless gorge, the one you only see a shadow of as they flick through the projector slides showing their old home. Even though they're in a simulation of their home, the nostalgia is just too strong. It really struck me.

And now I feel like them, spending time watching/hearing about others playing outer wilds for their first times just to experience it again.

[factotum]

I went into the Maggot Lair with my summoner Necro in Nightmare difficulty. That place is just *so bad* for a summoner build, with all those narrow passageways where maybe one or two of your minions at most can get into easy attack position. I'm considering respeccing to include Corpse Explosion--I don't normally take it for a summoner because I need the corpses for my meat (or rather, bone) shield, but I think it would speed things up immensely in confined places like that.

[Cespenar]

I kind of thought they were going too far when I learned they had a professional comedian voice a joke orc, The Agonizer...

Huh, didn't know that, but it makes sense, considering the care and effort that apparently went into the characterizations.