What Are You Playing 5: New Thread+

[Zevox]

After a week of playing him, I'm getting much more confident in my ability to play Happy Chaos in Guilty Gear Strive. He's got a learning curve, but he's thankfully not as rough to get the hang of as a puppeteer like Zato or a... whatever you'd call Jack-O's bizarre play style. And I'm very much enjoying him, and all the goofy little touches to his character. Like how when he stands up after a knockdown, he's actually a second copy of himself emerging from beneath his own (presumably "dead") body and tossing it off-screen as he does. Dude has so much magic at his disposal that he just does that for kicks.

Also, surprisingly, he seems to be legitimately popular online. The period of seeing a lot of people playing him has lasted longer than it did with the last two DLC characters, despite him having a notable learning curve to get over. Today's the first day since he came out that I fought more people playing other characters than I did Happy Chaos mirror matches, and I still had a two of those (out of five or six different opponents). That's really weird, for a character that I've seen a lot of people call one of or the hardest and most technical to play in the game (though as mentioned above, I disagree with the assessment that he's the hardest, personally). But hey, Happy Chaos mirror matches are fun, especially when the opponent lets the intro rock, so I'm not complaining.

To be honest, Final Fantasy has never had the best stories, I believe the first came out at a time where 'you elf, evil pig man stole princess, go collect triangles and stab him' was a deep plot for a game.

Sure, but to be fair, the first Final Fantasy isn't the one that usually gets praise for its story. That one's mostly just an old-school dungeon crawler, the actual story is pretty bare-bones. It's usually 6 and 7 that seem to be the main ones getting that praise, and sometimes 4.

That said... yeah, I kind of agree. Granted, I haven't played the entire franchise, and notably have not played 6, but what I've played of Final Fantasy hasn't really impressed me story-wise with the sole exception of 7 Remake. Setting that aside, they've ranged from decent but nothing special (like 4 and 12), to a candidate for the worst story I've ever seen in a video game (13).

I have not played 14 though, since I don't play MMOs, so no opinion on that one.

Never felt that myself. Interactivity and nonlinearity are what I like TTRPGs for, but videogames can't really go anywhere near that. So a well-crafted linear story is much preferable, to me, to a branching-but-still-very-limited story.

Agreed completely. There are certainly cases where games can make branching stories work to great effect (Fire Emblem: Three Houses comes to mind, for instance), but in general I would say that a linear story is the style I feel video games are better suited to. Trying to emulate tabletop games with things like player-defined main characters and tons of branching options has a cost, robbing you of the ability to really develop the main character (since the player needs to be able to define what their personality, beliefs, actions, etc are) and limiting the sort of storytelling that can be done. Or, alternatively, massively multiplying the work load on the developers, since each branching option is additional work that must be put into the game when it's made, since unlike a tabletop game nothing can be done on the fly.

[Rynjin]

I think it's still more possible to get invested in a strictly linear story when it's presented as a videogame than as movie or what-have-you. Take, as an example, Persona 3--I've played both the video game version (the Playstation Portable variant, at any rate), and watched the four feature-length animes that tell the same story, and I was far more affected by the ending of the video game than that of the movie, simply because the game had given me a couple of days' in-game time to meet up with the important characters and see how their stories had played out, whereas the ending of the movies seemed rushed in comparison.

Exactly, thank you for proving my point. The narrative was enhanced by the interactivity. You were able to interact with the character on your own terms, to an extent, and build a personal relationship with them that would not be present in a movie.

Most WRPGs have the llusion of interactivity. Nothing of what you do really matters--all the branches are the same, just dressed up differently. At least JRPGs are honest about it. And FFXIV downright lampshades that fact, with dialog options (few of which change things) like "no matter what I say, I'm going to end up doing this, right?"

The illusion of choice is the same as the choice, if the illusion remains unbroken.

I
Basically I am saying that there's more than one kind of interactivity, and that video games are in no way an inferior way of telling stories or creating art. That kind of talk is just reductive when your beef is with cutscenes.

Again, thank you for agreeing me while thinking you are disagreeing. Video games are an inferior storytelling medium save for the ability to interact. Leaning away from that interactivity thus directly harms your narrative.

Phoenix Wright is a great example. Everyone praises the games for their stories. The anime was a giant flop, despite being largely identical narratively.

Why? Because the interactive nature builds a naturally stronger engagement with the material.

No accounting for taste, I suppose. Discount Gabranth isn't that great a character, and ARR in general was mostly a setup for everything else, with quite a few unlikeable characters and long-winded plots that can later on be summarized in a few lines, but Heavensward was interesting to me simply because the characters involved had moments of growth, of change, and you were there for it - and quite possibly had a journey of your own to make (oh, the Vault and doing the Dark Knight questchain afterwards...). And I think that long cutscenes are still a necessary evil - you simply cannot develop a character properly without many moments where that change can be made gradually, organically, slowly enough that you don't notice it at first.

One of the better narrative games I've played recently is God of War 4...and it keeps cutscenes to a minimal. There are relatively few moments where your control is COMPLETELY taken away, and those moments are pretty brief as well.

This is also the game that has the most effective character development for Kratos in the entire extended franchise...all of which, previously, relied purely on static cutscenes for their storytelling.

Basically, I didn't have any issues with cutscenes. You can't tell a complex story without them, and though FFXIV does sometimes make you read a lot instead of playing the game, I don't mind that. Same as I didn't mind Planescape: Torment's extensive dialogues, really - I spent maybe 10% of that game in combat if not less.

But dialogue IS a form of interactivity. Dia, meaning two. There are two parties interacting with the game at any one time. You (through the playable character) and whoever you are talking to. For our purposes this can even be multiple people in-game talking with you, because it's really one subject: the game.

Final Fantasy XIV instead has a lot of MONOLOGUES. One thing is talking: the game, again, but now entirely without your input or interaction. You are being lectured to by a variety of cardboard cutouts who are varying degrees of annoying (especially Minfilia and Diet Kain), and your only method of further interaction with them is through a series of some of the most mind numbingly boring, tedious, pointless bull**** I have ever been forced to sit through in a game.

I still have nightmares about the post-ARR slog of 200 unskippable ****ing quests that have nothing to do with anything and wish I could get those hours of my life back. Every time I think about them I can feel the happier memories I have of the game getting sucked into that black hole, because I was largely dead inside by the time I even got to Heavensward.

So, admittedly, I may be a little too harsh on Heavensward's narrative because of that...but that's sort of the point. The narrative isn't engaging enough on its own to fix the huge disconnect between the narrative and the gameplay. They actively hinder each other, because ZERO attempt is made to actually make use of the strength of games as storytelling medium.

[Spacewolf]

I've just about finished post Shadowbringer/ pre endwalker stuff and it just had one of the best sequences I've played in a long time for story. I do think ARR does a bad job of introducing you to characters, maybe because you were supposed to have come from whatever ff14 was before it got a soft reboot and you are already supposed to know them? (Just a guess I have no evidence for this.) Heavensworn meanwhile has a good story and fantastic music but some of the worst pacing I've seen in a game nothing is done once they have to do it multiple times, even down to main story beats. But Shadowbringer has honestly blown me away it's 8 am and I've been playing for the last 8 hours because the story sucked me in so much, even managed to make me tear up afew times. It'll be going on the list of recent games whose stories will leave a lasting impact.

[Rynjin]

That's really great, and I'm sure it's as awesome as people keep telling me. But it's extremely difficult to justify the cost and/or time required to slog through the roughly 120-150 hours of gameplay (ARR through Stormblood) to "get to the good stuff".

For reference, that is like asking someone to play 3 games because the 4th is really good, or to watch about 6-7 SEASONS (of extra long, 24 episode seasons no less) of a tv series before it "gets good".

Maybe if the gameplay was good enough to stand on its own, but...it's an MMO. It requires juuust enough of my attention that I can't just do something else at the same time (which I CAN while watching a tv series, mind you), but not enough to ever fully engage because it's literally just pressing the same buttons on your rotation in the same intervals repeatedly, because that's all MMOs are; Cookie Clicker with better graphics which ban you if you ever automate the process.

[Spacewolf]

I'm not convincing you to do anything. I've been talking about my experiences playing the game since I started playing and this seemed a decent point to put where I'm upto and my thoughts since I last posted about heavensward where it was dragging. And this was such a high point. What you do with that information is upto you but I don't really care if you play or not.

As for difficulty, yea no. I've had alot more difficulty with this game than Sekiro, God of War, Monster Hunter or any other game I've played recently. Kind of an absurdist position to hold to be honest.

[Anonymouswizard]

Sure, but to be fair, the first Final Fantasy isn't the one that usually gets praise for its story. That one's mostly just an old-school dungeon crawler, the actual story is pretty bare-bones. It's usually 6 and 7 that seem to be the main ones getting that praise, and sometimes 4.

That said... yeah, I kind of agree. Granted, I haven't played the entire franchise, and notably have not played 6, but what I've played of Final Fantasy hasn't really impressed me story-wise with the sole exception of 7 Remake. Setting that aside, they've ranged from decent but nothing special (like 4 and 12), to a candidate for the worst story I've ever seen in a video game (13).

I have not played 14 though, since I don't play MMOs, so no opinion on that one.

I picked 1 exactly because it doesn't get praised for it's story, while 2 upped the ante on the story 1 was already an improvement. The stories improved as the games went along in the 8 and 16 bit eras, but sadly the storytelling never advanced

Although I've also never played 14, because online multiplayer isnt for me.

But yes, there's a reason no JRPG makes it into my list of top video game stories. They just spend too much time as treating story as separate to gameplay (even the amazing MegaTen series).

[Rynjin]

As for difficulty, yea no. I've had alot more difficulty with this game than Sekiro, God of War, Monster Hunter or any other game I've played recently. Kind of an absurdist position to hold to be honest.

Up to the end of Heavensward, I died exactly three times; all in the same dungeon, and all due to my friend pulling the entire dungeon and failing to keep aggro because he was both used to playing a higher level character and more stubborn than a mule as me and our healer begged him to just...not.

But to be honest I don't really value the kind of "difficulty" MMOs and JRPGs in general tend to bring regardless. Huge numbers is not difficulty, it's just tedium.

If there's something besides big numbers later in the game...cool? I guess? But if after 100+ hours of playtime the game failed to introduce anything meaningfully new (every boss boils down to "Don't stand in bad circles or lines, mash buttons, sometimes kill a big obviously glowy enemy/object to not die"), then that's on the game.

[factotum]

But yes, there's a reason no JRPG makes it into my list of top video game stories. They just spend too much time as treating story as separate to gameplay (even the amazing MegaTen series).

Maybe it's because I grew up with gaming in the days when the entire story was told in the back of the cassette inlay for you to read while waiting for it to load, but I've never had a problem with that sort of disconnect. Sure, when the story and gameplay are blended seamlessly it's a wonderful thing--Bastion springs to mind, with the entire story told in narration while you actually play, which worked beautifully--but to me it's not really necessary. Heck, if the gameplay is good enough I can forgive a really crappy story (see: Mass Effect 2), whereas a really good story attached to a really bad game just doesn't work for me.

[Cespenar]

Heck, if the gameplay is good enough I can forgive a really crappy story (see: Mass Effect 2), whereas a really good story attached to a really bad game just doesn't work for me.

That's sort of true, even to a narrative lover. There is definitely a force multiplication between story and gameplay, but it might be skewed a bit towards gameplay. "Gameplay^2 * Story" could very well be the equation, now to think about it.

[Anteros]

Nobody asked for it to be free. They decided to make it free, then lock something that has ALWAYS BEEN FREE behind one of the grindiest battle passes in the entire industry and some of the most expensive, but least impactful cosmetics in the industry as well (not as bad as Valorant's $100 weapon skins).

People care about cosmetics. They know this. They are preying on peoples' desire to customize their Spartan as they have been able to do for free since the very first game.

They aren't "preying" on anyone. They're selling a product. You're perfectly free to not buy it. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if there were actual gameplay elements for sale, but as far as I can tell there's a perfectly level playing field even if you never pay a single cent. If a studio wants to supplement their income by selling purely optional cosmetics that don't effect thee gameplay at all, that you don't even see because it's a FPS? Good for them. If it's not important enough to you to spend money on cosmetics then don't. No big deal.

Sure, but to be fair, the first Final Fantasy isn't the one that usually gets praise for its story. That one's mostly just an old-school dungeon crawler, the actual story is pretty bare-bones. It's usually 6 and 7 that seem to be the main ones getting that praise, and sometimes 4.

That said... yeah, I kind of agree. Granted, I haven't played the entire franchise, and notably have not played 6, but what I've played of Final Fantasy hasn't really impressed me story-wise with the sole exception of 7 Remake. Setting that aside, they've ranged from decent but nothing special (like 4 and 12), to a candidate for the worst story I've ever seen in a video game (13).

As someone who played through 6 for the first time as an adult...nostalgia is doing a lot of heavy lifting in regards to people's opinions on that story. It's as bare-bones as can be for the most part. Characterization consists of things like "here's a caveman character. He's now in your party and will travel with you forever for....reasons."

Even the ones most people would consider the golden age of Final fantasy like 7 through 10 tend to break down if you actually stop and think about the ridiculous aspects of their stories. I don't know why that studio is incapable of telling a good story, but at this point it's a pattern.

If there's something besides big numbers later in the game...cool? I guess? But if after 100+ hours of playtime the game failed to introduce anything meaningfully new (every boss boils down to "Don't stand in bad circles or lines, mash buttons, sometimes kill a big obviously glowy enemy/object to not die"), then that's on the game.

You can boil anything down to its bare bones and make it sound dumb. Sekiro is just "press R1 to parry the enemy in a pre-determined pattern that they follow every time." Dark Souls is just "Don't stand in the glowy things or face tank the giant slow moving enemy" A lot of the time it's the actual execution that adds difficulty, not the concept.

[Anonymouswizard]

Cosmetics definiy impact my gameplay even if I never see them. In Fallout games (3+) I personally can spend a lot of time on my face and won't wear certain pieces of armour due to how they look. As a kid I spent literally hours messing with the Army Painter in Dawn of War. To me changing the way a character looks affects my enjoyment, I've loved going through DMC5 and seeing all the cutscenes again with the alternate costumes.

That said, in a free game charging for cosmetics is acceptable. It very much sounds like Halo: Infinite is taking it too far, but being legitimately free is reason to charge for this stuff.

[LibraryOgre]

I tried out Minecraft 1.18 this past weekend, and I don't think that I enjoy the cave update.

The world is significantly hollowed out, which is detrimental to my preferred way of mining through large solid chunks of stone for resources. Here, I keep digging into huge caverns (many which are underwater) so I spend a lot more time fighting angry mobs and trying to find a good digging spot than actually digging.

It also does weird things to underground structures. I found an abandoned mineshaft that was long expanses of wooden bridges in large otherwise empty caverns. It doesn't feel like a mine anymore (at least I can bring an axe and collect all the free wood).

I dunno, I'm not feeling it. I went back to 1.17 and it feels more my style. I do like digging way under Y=0, and there are still plenty of caves to find. I think 1.18 just gets overzealous about cave gen.

I've run into similar issues, but I'm trying to vibe with it. I think one of my big problems is spawning in nowhere near a village. Like, I explored the entire starting map you receive, taking three days (for the first two, I didn't have enough wool to make a bed), and found not a single village. I can play the dude way out in the wilderness, sure, but I like having a village to fix up and villagers to trade with. Gives me goals other than "Get stuff".

In my preference, the Starting Chest would either include a bed or 3 wool of a single color, so I can just make a gorram bed.

[The Glyphstone]

I picked up Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 over the latest Steam Sale. Still learning the ropes and how to micro my ships properly, like point blank torpedo salvos.

[DigoDragon]

I've run into similar issues, but I'm trying to vibe with it. I think one of my big problems is spawning in nowhere near a village. Like, I explored the entire starting map you receive, taking three days (for the first two, I didn't have enough wool to make a bed), and found not a single village. I can play the dude way out in the wilderness, sure, but I like having a village to fix up and villagers to trade with. Gives me goals other than "Get stuff".

Starting near a village is definitely a big deal! I've resorted to looking up "top 10" Seed lists and picking out ones that look promising to start me near a village that I can have fun working on. My favorite locale for a village is near a big body of water.

Fishing is strangely peaceful on a boat.


I learned that villagers ignore your bed if you place it one block higher than the floor around it. I usually put it on a pair of blocks to give it the height. Useful so that they don't steal your spot at night.

In my preference, the Starting Chest would either include a bed or 3 wool of a single color, so I can just make a gorram bed.

I wish the starting chest was standardized. Sometimes you get three tools and a bunch of logs to work with, other times you get two planks and a raw fish. XD

[LibraryOgre]

Starting near a village is definitely a big deal! I've resorted to looking up "top 10" Seed lists and picking out ones that look promising to start me near a village that I can have fun working on. My favorite locale for a village is near a big body of water.

Fishing is strangely peaceful on a boat.


I learned that villagers ignore your bed if you place it one block higher than the floor around it. I usually put it on a pair of blocks to give it the height. Useful so that they don't steal your spot at night.

Good to know! I'm making villager breeding pits (i.e. buildings with three beds and a chest full of food), and trying to get a good mix of skills. really wish a cleric was easier to get, but my current place is great... near a good sized body of water, a small plain, and some dramatic hills. Not too far from a forest, even.

Never found a village in a jungle biome.

I wish the starting chest was standardized. Sometimes you get three tools and a bunch of logs to work with, other times you get two planks and a raw fish. XD

So long as I have an axe and a pick, I'm happy. But a bed would be so useful, even if you wind up having to drag it with you every night.

[Rynjin]

They aren't "preying" on anyone. They're selling a product. You're perfectly free to not buy it. I'd be more inclined to agree with you if there were actual gameplay elements for sale, but as far as I can tell there's a perfectly level playing field even if you never pay a single cent. If a studio wants to supplement their income by selling purely optional cosmetics that don't effect thee gameplay at all, that you don't even see because it's a FPS? Good for them. If it's not important enough to you to spend money on cosmetics then don't. No big deal.

Have you been missing for the last 5 years? This is a solved argument. Research has shown monetization like this (not just lootboxes, but rampant microtransactions) is psychologically damage to young people in particular.

But more to the point, no company gets a pass on consumer unfriendly practices just because something else is free. And that's what this is: consumer unfriendly. It's too expensive, and actively REMOVES CONTENT from the game that has always been in it.

Microsoft isn't going to give you a pat on the back for defending their multibillion dollar company on the internet.

You can boil anything down to its bare bones and make it sound dumb. Sekiro is just "press R1 to parry the enemy in a pre-determined pattern that they follow every time." Dark Souls is just "Don't stand in the glowy things or face tank the giant slow moving enemy" A lot of the time it's the actual execution that adds difficulty, not the concept.

Well, if I was able to make it through 100 hours of gameplay with next to no difficulty, it's pretty apparent that the execution ain't that complex either, eh? I even did a few of the Extremes because I wanted some weapon transmogs you can't get otherwise.

Edit: The reason, I'll expand on, is timing. Sekiro is hard because timing is hard. You have fractions of a second to react, kind of like a fighting game. Dark Souls is more forgiving, but still pretty fast.

XIV? You have literal SECONDS to move out of the way of any incoming attacks, sometimes 10-15 if the game expects you to move pretty far (sometimes the big glowy circle is the whole arena with only one safe space! Wow!). Since there's no active defense mechanics, everything else is arbitrary; normal atatck sjust...hit you, period. Same as yours, there's no aiming or timing required, you just mash your rotation until you have to move.

There's a couple characters with choice (like Ninja, which I played quite a lot of), but the other characters I played...no. You literally do just mash the same buttons in order every time, just about, for Paladin, Red Mage, and Dancer.

[Zevox]

But yes, there's a reason no JRPG makes it into my list of top video game stories. They just spend too much time as treating story as separate to gameplay (even the amazing MegaTen series).

Oh, that I don't agree with in the slightest. Gameplay and story being separate things is only natural, and JRPGs dominate my list of top video games stories. Just not Final Fantasy specifically. Despite being a big JRPG fan, I've never understood why that series in particular is the one that became big worldwide the way it did, because up until 7 Remake, it never really impressed me. I think most other long-running JPRG series are better than it, personally.

Even the ones most people would consider the golden age of Final fantasy like 7 through 10 tend to break down if you actually stop and think about the ridiculous aspects of their stories. I don't know why that studio is incapable of telling a good story, but at this point it's a pattern.

Oh, they're not completely incapable of it - 7 Remake shows that, it's quite good. (And hell, if we're talking about Square Enix in general as the studio, they've made other games with good stories - The World Ends With You and its sequel, some of the Dragon Quest games, Chrono Trigger, etc.) But yeah, if people think of FF8 and 10 as part of some golden age for the series, I can't agree with that. 10 I like the combat in, but the story is pretty weak; while 8 is probably the Final Fantasy game I like the least of all of those I tried, and only 13's existence stops it from being the one with the worst story.

9 seemed okay, but I only played a little ways into it, so I can't comment much on it. 7's story is definitely better than the rest that I've played, but not without its flaws, sure.

[factotum]

Despite being a big JRPG fan, I've never understood why that series in particular is the one that became big worldwide the way it did, because up until 7 Remake, it never really impressed me. I think most other long-running JPRG series are better than it, personally.

I'm a fairly recent convert to JRPGs, but I have to agree on Final Fantasy--I've tried several, including FF9 which is supposed to be one of the best, and none of them grabbed me in the same way that Persona or the Trails series did. Can't really identify why, though.

[Rynjin]

I'm a fairly recent convert to JRPGs, but I have to agree on Final Fantasy--I've tried several, including FF9 which is supposed to be one of the best, and none of them grabbed me in the same way that Persona or the Trails series did. Can't really identify why, though.

Probably because they're very...basic.

Pretty much all of the other big JRPG franchises took the framework that Final Fantasy had made and copied it. Then they kind of evolved into their own thing.

Final Fantasy, well, never evolved really. There are fairly distinct eras of the series (1-3 are different from 4-6 are different from 7-13, are different from 15 and 7 Remake) but with the exception of the last two, the formula has still been pretty similar overall. Turn based battlers with very basic, often character focused stories.

Other JRPGs try to do something different narratively, mechanically, or both and are better off for it.

[Ignimortis]

Well, if I was able to make it through 100 hours of gameplay with next to no difficulty, it's pretty apparent that the execution ain't that complex either, eh? I even did a few of the Extremes because I wanted some weapon transmogs you can't get otherwise.

Edit: The reason, I'll expand on, is timing. Sekiro is hard because timing is hard. You have fractions of a second to react, kind of like a fighting game. Dark Souls is more forgiving, but still pretty fast.

XIV? You have literal SECONDS to move out of the way of any incoming attacks, sometimes 10-15 if the game expects you to move pretty far (sometimes the big glowy circle is the whole arena with only one safe space! Wow!). Since there's no active defense mechanics, everything else is arbitrary; normal atatck sjust...hit you, period. Same as yours, there's no aiming or timing required, you just mash your rotation until you have to move.

There's a couple characters with choice (like Ninja, which I played quite a lot of), but the other characters I played...no. You literally do just mash the same buttons in order every time, just about, for Paladin, Red Mage, and Dancer.

It's because FFXIV is designed as someone's first MMO. I.e. you can get into it without any experience in MMOs and learn at your own pace. IME, everything before Stormblood is incredibly easy for someone who's played WoW or something similar in the past, even if they never did anything outside of heroics/normal difficulty raids. It's basically the typical MMO complexity spiral — at first even the devs aren't sure what they can actually do with the game, and then they grow more confident over time, as the players also get better.

There are several roadblock bosses that either force you to "git gud" or be carried by your party if possible: the 3.3 boss (not very hard, but plays with mechanics that haven't appeared in MSQ previously), the 4.0 final boss (actually had a decent chance of repeatedly wiping the party on release, might be powercreeped by gear now), the 5.3 boss (punishing mechanics, a couple of insta-loss moments if you mess up), and now the 6.0 level 83 boss, which is liable to stay somewhat challenging for a few patches. The glowy markers also start disappearing far more often even in normal content, replaced by other telegraphs which aren't nearly as readily apparent.

On the topic of Extremes - ARR Extremes are...incredibly basic as well. There are maybe two or three "gotcha" mechanics, but otherwise they just hit harder. It wasn't until HW Extremes that things actually started to heat up with KotR EX, for example. On the other hand, ARR actual raids (Coils) are punishing enough that you don't even get to go there in roulettes. T9 synced still requires to have a full understanding of tactics and for your healers to be focused, Savage even more so.

In short, it's not that different from any other vertical progression MMO. WoW these days lets you get to level cap in 40 hours, but you arrive there without the slightest inkling of how to actually play your class and the game (or what's going on, really). But something like vanilla WoW would've taken you 150 hours just to hit 60, and by that time you'd probably at least understand the basics.

[Anonymouswizard]

Oh, that I don't agree with in the slightest. Gameplay and story being separate things is only natural,

Why is it only natural? Why isn't it natural for an interactive medium to tell it's stories in an in interactive fashion.

If I wanted to sit down and watch a story I've still got like 13 seasons of Classic Doctor Who to get through.

Bastion was brought up earlier, and it's a great example in how you don't need dialogue trees for better presentation. It utilises both narration and item placement to give players the context for what they're playing through, and any uninteractive parts are short and player initiated (except maybe an ending cutscene? I'm only about halfway through, I'm not certain). It's great, and in many ways easier to understand than many JRPGs because I didn't get bored and start searching for a skip button six minutes into every monologue. I think it's a metaphor for acceptance of past events or something?

[DigoDragon]

Good to know! I'm making villager breeding pits (i.e. buildings with three beds and a chest full of food), and trying to get a good mix of skills. really wish a cleric was easier to get, but my current place is great... near a good sized body of water, a small plain, and some dramatic hills. Not too far from a forest, even.

Never found a village in a jungle biome.

The other option to keep villagers out is to place a piece of carpet in front of the doorway to whatever room is yours. Villagers are just tall enough that the carpet height makes them unable to pass through a two-block doorway.

I find this trick useful to keep them out of the mine entrances I build under my home base.

I don't believe I've seen a jungle biome village either. I'm lucky if I find a jungle biome at all within a couple days walk. They seem to be rare and very far away.

So long as I have an axe and a pick, I'm happy. But a bed would be so useful, even if you wind up having to drag it with you every night.

Agreed. Without a nearby village or a herd of sheep, bed materials are just hard to come by. One time I had to face cave spiders to get enough string to weave into wool.

[Eldan]

Why is it only natural? Why isn't it natural for an interactive medium to tell it's stories in an in interactive fashion.

If I wanted to sit down and watch a story I've still got like 23 seasons of Classic Doctor Who to get through.

Bastion was brought up earlier, and it's a great example in how you don't need dialogue trees for better presentation. It utilises both narration and item placement to give players the context for what they're playing through, and any uninteractive parts are short and player initiated (except maybe an ending cutscene? I'm only about halfway through, I'm not certain). It's great, and in many ways easier to understand than many JRPGs because I didn't get bored and start searching for a skip button six minutes into every monologue. I think it's a metaphor for acceptance of past events or something?

That. All of that. It may be the expectation for some genres (say, a turn-based tactical game, all of those I've ever seen have the story between missions), but it doesn't have to be for the vast variety of genres. It's a game. Players can be able to interact with the story, and during the story. And before we come down to dialogue trees again, dialogue trees can be gameplay, too. You can combine dialogue trees with resource systems. Or skill checks. Or anything else you can think of.

[Anteros]

Have you been missing for the last 5 years? This is a solved argument. Research has shown monetization like this (not just lootboxes, but rampant microtransactions) is psychologically damage to young people in particular.

But more to the point, no company gets a pass on consumer unfriendly practices just because something else is free. And that's what this is: consumer unfriendly. It's too expensive, and actively REMOVES CONTENT from the game that has always been in it.

Microsoft isn't going to give you a pat on the back for defending their multibillion dollar company on the internet.

And no one is going to give you a medal for "protecting the children" from the evils of...having to pay for things they want. I've also never seen any actual research that having to purchase things is somehow damaging towards children. The only thing I've seen is about lootboxes because of the link to gambling.

And yes, plenty of companies absolutely get a pass on selling things like cosmetics for their otherwise free content. It turns out that you can't run a game for free, and need to make money on it. Some games like PoE or LoL use these tactics to great success, have enormous customer bases, and are widely beloved.

Well, if I was able to make it through 100 hours of gameplay with next to no difficulty, it's pretty apparent that the execution ain't that complex either, eh? I even did a few of the Extremes because I wanted some weapon transmogs you can't get otherwise.

Edit: The reason, I'll expand on, is timing. Sekiro is hard because timing is hard. You have fractions of a second to react, kind of like a fighting game. Dark Souls is more forgiving, but still pretty fast.

XIV? You have literal SECONDS to move out of the way of any incoming attacks, sometimes 10-15 if the game expects you to move pretty far (sometimes the big glowy circle is the whole arena with only one safe space! Wow!). Since there's no active defense mechanics, everything else is arbitrary; normal atatck sjust...hit you, period. Same as yours, there's no aiming or timing required, you just mash your rotation until you have to move.

There's a couple characters with choice (like Ninja, which I played quite a lot of), but the other characters I played...no. You literally do just mash the same buttons in order every time, just about, for Paladin, Red Mage, and Dancer.

I suppose that depends on what you did with that hundred hours. You already said you played with people who had far more experience than you in the game. The difficulty in something like a MMO is learning the rotations and encounters for yourself, not twitch reflexes. Having someone tell you what to expect is basically playing with training wheels. Especially if you're playing as DPS and being carried by tanks/healers who are familiar with things. Which is fine, but don't complain the game is too easy afterwards. If you want difficulty, pick a tank and go do a higher level dungeon where you have no idea about the mechanics. I guarantee you'll die a few times. Especially if you're playing with other new characters.

[Rynjin]

And no one is going to give you a medal for "protecting the children" from the evils of...having to pay for things they want. I've also never seen any actual research that having to purchase things is somehow damaging towards children. The only thing I've seen is about lootboxes because of the link to gambling.

It's not about "having to purchase things". The entire point of microtransactions like this is to prey on FOMO, which is something kids and teens are especially susceptible to.

They also don't tend to, you know, HAVE MONEY. Which is why a lot of the cash games like this make are through kids stealing their paents' credit cards and making unauthorized purchases.

Conveniently, because you have to buy Microsoft Fun Bucks (a trend I though had died in the early 2010s) to make purchases, there's a hard no-refund policy for any currency or items purchased.

And yes, plenty of companies absolutely get a pass on selling things like cosmetics for their otherwise free content. It turns out that you can't run a game for free, and need to make money on it. Some games like PoE or LoL use these tactics to great success, have enormous customer bases, and are widely beloved.

PoE and LoL largely get a pass from people because A.) they've been doing it for a long time, and B.) ...that's it really. That's the only reason. They've been doing it long enough that people don't bother to try and fight back on it anymore. And, notably, people HAVE heavily criticized Riot's other major game (Valorant) for having similar, though even more egregious, monetization to Infinite.

It also helps that they're not games made by multibillion dollar companies who are just looking to squeeze people for even more cash. Microsoft has the resources and infrastructure for a standard shipping of the game. It could have been a normal $60 with free cosmetics and people would have preferred it. I certainly would have.

If it was free, but buying the campaign unlocked all currently existing cosmetics? That would also be acceptable.

If there was a way to, for a reasonable price, purchase all cosmetics for a season, I would even be fine with that.

Charging $5 for the color blue and, again, REMOVING CONTENT FROM THE GAME TO DO SO is not acceptable.

I suppose that depends on what you did with that hundred hours. You already said you played with people who had far more experience than you in the game. The difficulty in something like a MMO is learning the rotations and encounters for yourself, not twitch reflexes. Having someone tell you what to expect is basically playing with training wheels. Especially if you're playing as DPS and being carried by tanks/healers who are familiar with things. Which is fine, but don't complain the game is too easy afterwards. If you want difficulty, pick a tank and go do a higher level dungeon where you have no idea about the mechanics. I guarantee you'll die a few times. Especially if you're playing with other new characters.

You actually have to play about 90% of XIV solo, and I never asked for advice on rotations (mostly because my friend had only ever played Bard as a DPS). Red Mage in particularly was piss easy to figure out. Chuck rocks, blast light, chuck wind, blast lightning, dash in now dash out tell me whatcha gonna do now...che!

That's about it, save for the rare occasions when you need to press a different button because the healer is behind their own rotation, because you can also heal yourself and Verraise dudes.

When I played out of group (pure matchmaking) I also usually went with Paladin just because Tanks queue faster, so trust me: I tried.

Tanks (or at least Paladin) seem nigh unkillable in that game compared to other MMOs, so the only real danger is people being annoyed that you don't know the optimal pulls for each individual dungeon so you can complete it in 12 minutes instead of 15.

[Anteros]

Well, I certainly agree that FFXIV's rotations were easy and a little boring. That's one of the reasons I quit the game. I'm just saying that running 7(?) year old dungeons with groups of people who have done them a million times isn't a great indicator of difficulty.

Re Halo: I don't really consider things like armor color to be "content." For me, the free multiplayer is great because it's letting me play with friends who otherwise wouldn't buy the game. If selling cosmetics is responsible for that, then I'm all for it. My biggest gripe with the game is that the campaign apparently doesn't have co-op.

[Rynjin]

Well, I certainly agree that FFXIV's rotations were easy and a little boring. That's one of the reasons I quit the game. I'm just saying that running 7(?) year old dungeons with groups of people who have done them a million times isn't a great indicator of difficulty.

Bit less than that. ARR came out in 2013. I tried it initially in 2015 as a Pugilist, but found it insanely boring and quit. I got deeper into it in 2016 when I had a friend to play with, so not too long after Heavensward came out. It took me years of off and on play to make it to the end of Heavensward, because I wasn't really financially in a position to pay that much money for a subscription.

Re Halo: I don't really consider things like armor color to be "content." For me, the free multiplayer is great because it's letting me play with friends who otherwise wouldn't buy the game. If selling cosmetics is responsible for that, then I'm all for it. My biggest gripe with the game is that the campaign apparently doesn't have co-op.

I consider it content, and I feel like most people would agree. It's important to me, especially since the first season's theme is Reach, which I have a lot of emotional attachment to; it was the last game I ever played with any regularity with my old friends from high school.

Like I said, I wouldn't have an issue if there was a way to drop a reasonable amount of money and just get everything. Obviously, I bought the Battle Pass access to get the Reach armor core in the first place, and I found that a reasonable investment.

But the way you have to buy a lot of stuff piecemeal (something they didn't reveal until a couple weeks in), and the sheer, staggering amount of money it adds up to to get everything...it's just scummy, and I won't reward it with more money.

[Anonymouswizard]

So as hinted at earlier in the thread I'm giving Bastion another go. Got one core left, so I figure I'm in for the mid-game twist.

Honestly, the main issue I'm having is that the gameplay is pretty meh. I've been mainly using the Fang Repeater and War Machete, and recently switched out the former for the Scrap Musket, but it just doesn't feel quite there. With a bit of refinement and more commitment to either the hacking and slashing or shooting might have helped it feel better, as it is I'm uncertain I'll be doing more than one full playthrough. It's functional and there's variety, but it's not quite there.

So yeah, it's finishing Bastion and then on to Transistor for me.

[IthilanorStPete]

So as hinted at earlier in the thread I'm giving Bastion another go. Got one core left, so I figure I'm in for the mid-game twist.

Honestly, the main issue I'm having is that the gameplay is pretty meh. I've been mainly using the Fang Repeater and War Machete, and recently switched out the former for the Scrap Musket, but it just doesn't feel quite there. With a bit of refinement and more commitment to either the hacking and slashing or shooting might have helped it feel better, as it is I'm uncertain I'll be doing more than one full playthrough. It's functional and there's variety, but it's not quite there.

So yeah, it's finishing Bastion and then on to Transistor for me.

I loved Bastion when I first played it, but the basic gameplay was probably my least favorite part of it. I generally liked the later-game weapons more, though, for whatever that's worth.

[Anonymouswizard]

I loved Bastion when I first played it, but the basic gameplay was probably my least favorite part of it. I generally liked the later-game weapons more, though, for whatever that's worth.

Well I'm possibly halfway through the weapons, there's a lot of lockdc options in the Forge. I'm considering switching to the Scrap Musket and Fang Repeater for the next level.

The gameplay is definitely the weak point though, and the Proving Grounds have just kind of become not fun. But the Scrap Musket finally feels satisfying to use, especially with the rifled barrel upgrade, so maybe the early weapons are just overly focused on being the boring practical options.

Yes, I know spend most of my time now rolling before firing my musket in the direction of enemies. If I can get next to a gasfella it seems to just take one or two hits.