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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing 5: New Thread+

    I bought Rebel Inc. and been playing it quite alot. I'm having a lot of fun. I've only ever played it on casual as I'm playing as each governor on each map with casual before I up the difficulty. And this way with each successful win, I unlock another advisor. I would say I have about 6-8 advisors left to unlock and I just finished all the maps with the General. Next up is the Banker and I have no idea what her special abilities are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triaxx View Post
    If I'm recalling correctly Rogue has a natural Vamp effect and so benefits from hitting a lot. That and boosting Parry. Damage avoided is even better than damage healed.
    Ya, he does, but it just doesn't feel like it's enough to compensate for the lack of other heal sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    So far, normal enemies are usually dead or almost dead by the time I get done unloading 4 arts into them. And that's with me playing on hard and not going out of my way to level. I'm about level 10 so far and just leaving the first area, so maybe it'll get harder. So far though, the dps you get just from spamming the arte that goes along the ground from the main character is about double of anything else I can do. The animation is twice as fast as most of the others and it's ranged. Definitely not balanced for this stage of the game. I'm sure higher level artes will come along and outshine it though, which may make longer comboes more valuable.
    Hm, are you playing on the default difficulty? I don't get enemies dying in one combo (of artes and normals, not just four artes) until I'm overleveled compared to them, but I turned my difficulty up to moderate, since that's what I tend to play Tales games on.

    And I believe the arte you're referring to is Demon Fang, the shockwave one? I throw that around occasionally when I want to keep my distance from enemies (such as some that I've run into recently that like to spit poison in the area around them), but I definitely don't think it's the best tactic generally. If you can break an enemy quickly and get a full combo going, ground combo into launcher artes (Rising Wyvern/Severing Wind) into an air combo keeps the target locked down while doing a lot of damage. Though Demon Fang spam can quickly build up that blue meter on enemies for the duo attack once I've done some damage via a combo like that.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Back to Deadfire, I am determined to finish it this time. I let it slide last time as I think I walked into a DLC area (the iceberg) which has one of my least favorite endgame/postgame tropes for this genre: Fighting the same high level enemies over and over that aren't particularly challenging for my near max level characters, but have such a ridiculous amount of health that the fights just drag on. Trying to solve a water/puzzle area and I just groan when I uncover another band of enemies that drag things to a screeching halt.

    Got my backer code for Wrath of the Righteous, and I'm really keen to play that one once Deadfire is over, but my experience with Kingmaker tells me I should probably wait for at least a few months worth of patches first.

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    Also, about Wrath of the Righteous, I'm hearing some insane chatter on the internet in the vein of "oh, AC 60? you have to boost that to 70s at the least" and the like. Probably meant for the lategame, but nevertheless, does that hold any water, or is it some Hardest difficulty + optional content + classic forumgoer exaggeration?

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    Also, about Wrath of the Righteous, I'm hearing some insane chatter on the internet in the vein of "oh, AC 60? you have to boost that to 70s at the least" and the like. Probably meant for the lategame, but nevertheless, does that hold any water, or is it some Hardest difficulty + optional content + classic forumgoer exaggeration?
    I own but never ran the original Adventure Path (I really wanted to, but just couldn't commit to it before I stopped playing), but it was designed to showcase the Mythic Rules, so players would reach power well past max level Pathfinder characters by adventure 3 (out of 6) or so.

    But I love "Storm the depths of Hell!" adventures and always regretted not getting it to the table, so I'm looking forward to experience it in this form at least.
    Last edited by Dire_Flumph; 2021-09-12 at 12:15 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: What Are You Playing 5: New Thread+

    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    Also, about Wrath of the Righteous, I'm hearing some insane chatter on the internet in the vein of "oh, AC 60? you have to boost that to 70s at the least" and the like. Probably meant for the lategame, but nevertheless, does that hold any water, or is it some Hardest difficulty + optional content + classic forumgoer exaggeration?
    They are talking about Core/Unfair and higher difficulties likely.
    Seriously, in Core difficulty, most cultist have like 21-24 AC. You are level 2-3 by then, so yeah, their attack bonus/AC is immense.

    Heck, I originally planned to make my Oracle an Archer, but in Core, I'm using Divine Ray 1/2 the time (1d3 Divine damage, save for half instead of Regular/Touch) because auto hit.

    If playing Normal or easier, 60 will be fine/unneeded.

    I'm trying Core just to get achievements.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Valerie: Fighter/Stalwart Defender. Same feat line as my bard.

    Harrim: Mostly Cleric, but I added 1 level of Freebooter Ranger to get Martial Weapons this time... feats are more valuable than levels, and a 1 level pause in casting level is worth it to get him more weapon options (including Dwarven Waraxes). Same Feat line as my bard, then going into at least Augment Summoning, and selective channelling once he's been sitting on a Charisma bonus long enough.

    Tristan: I'm trying something new with Tristan... Cleric 6, Empyrean Sorcerer 4, Mystic Theurge 10. Cleric 6 because the Healing Domain bonus is so useful (Empowered Cures for free? Thank you!). All spellcasting is Wisdom, and Empyrean is appropriate for him. In going sorcerer, I'm avoiding any touch spells, because post-Vordakai, he's not so good at them. He's DEFINITELY going to be full summons, and going to be using the staff that gives your animated dead +3 weapons. Between their meat-shield properties and the little bit of damage they do, they've really saved my bacon in the past.
    Valerie got respeced as a Kinetic Knight, which was not great, then as a Fighter 4/Kineticist. Kineticist, with water and the shield, and she's doing pretty well.

    I retrained Harrim to get rid of the ranger level. He's lost some skill points, and I had to spend a feat on Martial weapons, but I think it was a better choice.

    And Tristan as a Mystic Theurge is really great. There's the blank spot where you're going from Cleric through Sorcerer to Mystic Theurge... but it wasn't too bad, since it hit about the time I've going through the Troll Fortress so, if nothing else, he could Acid Splash the ones brought down by others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    They are talking about Core/Unfair and higher difficulties likely.
    Seriously, in Core difficulty, most cultist have like 21-24 AC. You are level 2-3 by then, so yeah, their attack bonus/AC is immense.

    Heck, I originally planned to make my Oracle an Archer, but in Core, I'm using Divine Ray 1/2 the time (1d3 Divine damage, save for half instead of Regular/Touch) because auto hit.

    If playing Normal or easier, 60 will be fine/unneeded.

    I'm trying Core just to get achievements.
    That's nice to hear. I'll stick with whatever is closest to a sensible tabletop-level optimization then, if there is such a setting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    Also, about Wrath of the Righteous, I'm hearing some insane chatter on the internet in the vein of "oh, AC 60? you have to boost that to 70s at the least" and the like. Probably meant for the lategame, but nevertheless, does that hold any water, or is it some Hardest difficulty + optional content + classic forumgoer exaggeration?
    I'd like to know if WoR has the same world map / kingdom management thing going on as Kingmaker. I got extremely annoyed with all that mandatory downtime activity and gave up on Kingmaker, but a game without such component might be more fun. Just don't want to twiddle my thumbs for hours on end waiting for enough time to pass and the next event to proc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    That's nice to hear. I'll stick with whatever is closest to a sensible tabletop-level optimization then, if there is such a setting.
    My difficulty settings, if you're interested:

    Overall difficulty: Normal

    Tweaked:

    Number of enemies: Enlarged
    Additional enemy behaviors
    Critical hits: Normal (default: Weak)
    Death's Door: On
    Party damage taken: 1.0 (default .8)
    Remove status on rest: was on for a while, but after the early game I took it off.

    Basically, this results in individual combats being challenging, but without the issue of potentially death spiraling over the course of a day and being forced to rest frequently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    That's nice to hear. I'll stick with whatever is closest to a sensible tabletop-level optimization then, if there is such a setting.
    The power level is VERY high in the game due to mythic feats and the mythic paths on the main char.

    At level 11, mythic rank 3 a random encounter I had just travelling was 2 Nabasu, 2 Derakni and a Nalfeshnee (roughly CR 15-16 on tabletop). They died in about 2 rounds (though it was a 6 person party).

    Im at level 15 now mythic rank 5, and casually pounced and killed a balor on the surprise round while wandering the Abyssa city in Act 4. That said the last “boss” I fought had something like 53 AC so the big fights are still challenging.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    I'd like to know if WoR has the same world map / kingdom management thing going on as Kingmaker. I got extremely annoyed with all that mandatory downtime activity and gave up on Kingmaker, but a game without such component might be more fun. Just don't want to twiddle my thumbs for hours on end waiting for enough time to pass and the next event to proc.
    Not so much, but there is some. Instead there's the armies of crusade mode, where you have armies of people you make fight other armies. Each army has a movement pool each day and they can move to fight demon armies, and some demon armies can also move and fight your stuff. It's fun in a HoM&M way but it's not as well done as the best HoM&M.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    Not so much, but there is some. Instead there's the armies of crusade mode, where you have armies of people you make fight other armies. Each army has a movement pool each day and they can move to fight demon armies, and some demon armies can also move and fight your stuff. It's fun in a HoM&M way but it's not as well done as the best HoM&M.
    Is it something you can skip via setup, or do you hurt yourself if you don't engage with it (i.e., you have to spend time on it no matter what)?
    Last edited by Brookshw; 2021-09-12 at 08:13 PM.
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    Took me three tries to get all the Act 1 quests done before visit from
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    There is likely a perfect way to do the quests (I just suffered fatigue/exhaustion a lot trying to rush to next area).

    Most commonly prepared spell Lesser Restoration to remove fatigue so I had a few more hours.

    I know, some area could just be reached after
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    I loved that you could trick the enemy to kill each other at the Library.


    I was so fatigued I failed Athletics check to sneak around pillars though at Tower. But I didn't mind a fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Hm, are you playing on the default difficulty? I don't get enemies dying in one combo (of artes and normals, not just four artes) until I'm overleveled compared to them, but I turned my difficulty up to moderate, since that's what I tend to play Tales games on.

    And I believe the arte you're referring to is Demon Fang, the shockwave one? I throw that around occasionally when I want to keep my distance from enemies (such as some that I've run into recently that like to spit poison in the area around them), but I definitely don't think it's the best tactic generally. If you can break an enemy quickly and get a full combo going, ground combo into launcher artes (Rising Wyvern/Severing Wind) into an air combo keeps the target locked down while doing a lot of damage. Though Demon Fang spam can quickly build up that blue meter on enemies for the duo attack once I've done some damage via a combo like that.
    I'm playing on hard, but like I said, very early game. I'm working this week so I won't make any more progress for another few days at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    Is it something you can skip via setup, or do you hurt yourself if you don't engage with it (i.e., you have to spend time on it no matter what)?
    There is an auto crusade mode, like the auto kingdom mode, but it locks you out of the secret ending and there are a couple of neat things you can get only through the crusades.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    I figure Kinetic Knight makes her not get any burn while attacking with her touch attack "sword". The penalty from Tower shield is offset from it being a touch attack.
    That is only relevant until you hit level 6 kineticist. At that point, you are simply ignoring the 1 burn cost to use kinetic blade and can simply swing away all you want. I'd rather wait several levels than completely lock myself out of using kinetic blasts as a ranged touch attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Might have to respec her, then. Kinetic Knight has been underwhelming, and I've been using Earth, which leaves them at melee attacks. Since I'm higher level (5/6), Infusion Specialization might make it worthwhile... but the fact that she gets free trip attacks with every hit has also been AWESOME. I've taken Trip and Improved Trip as bonus feats, so she gets a +4 on her trips, and when she knocks someone down, everyone gets AoO on them. But the lack of AoO on melee attacks is pretty rough.
    Infusion specialization does make it worthwhile. Once you can ignore 2 points of burn, composite kinetic blades are deadly, but you need to be using almost exclusively fire if you want to keep touch attacks.

    I wonder how Nok-Nok would do if he went rogue/kineticist, with a kukri in his off-hand?
    Probably scary. I don't use the goblin. Never found him really interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I'm playing on hard, but like I said, very early game. I'm working this week so I won't make any more progress for another few days at least.
    Well, now I'm extra confused. You said you finished the first act, right? I'd take that to mean that you've defeated the first Lord? Because I was definitely running into enemies too tough to die to just four artes well before then, and apparently I'm on a lower difficulty than you.
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    Been poking at Wrath of the Righteous a bit. Basically I can divide the game into two portions:

    1) The character creator. This is a load of fun, although I still wish the documentation on some things was better - e.g. the feat descriptions for the ten zillion Weapon Focuses are just the same thing, with <NameOfWeapon> slotted in, when what a person really wants to see at that stage is the actual weapon description. But messing around with all the races and classes and subclasses and spells and feats is a blast; there's all these character concepts just begging to be played. Which brings us to

    2) Actually playing the game. Here there are more problems. Let us further subdivide into story and gameplay.

    2a) Story. This is mostly fine, in a total fantasy nonsense sort of way. I'm a bit irritated at instantly being the super special chosen one, yet again (it's a party-based RPG, can't we all be chosen ones?) and I find myself mostly incapable of investing in any of the characters. They're fine, in the way a brown linoleum countertop is fine; perfectly adequate for the job but you're never really gonna get excited about it. On the plus side, it isn't falling into Obsidian's bad habit of seeing if it's possible to actually drown a human being in lore dumps, which puts it on the right side of the knife's edge balance between fun fantasy nonsense and tedious, self-important windbag fantasy nonsense.

    2b) Gameplay. It's all combat. I'm fine with this, but there's something really, really repetitious about Righteous' dude-slaying so far. I mean sure there's like a zillion special abilities to fire off, but the resting system is extremely punishing so have fun trying to figure out if this is the fight to burn your once-a-day ability on. To be fair this probably improves at higher levels, but the flip side of fair, low levels exist, and require mulching just an acre of bad guys to get through. I think it's mostly because terrain is almost completely irrelevant - the number of encounters that can be described as "you mean X cultists/demons/spiders in a featureless 30x50 room" is huge, which pretty much kills anything beyond the most simplistic of positional tactics. That leaves pushing the shiny button to activate your character build; it's almost literally just back-to-back white room combats so beloved of the char ops folks, and after the seventh small room with two rando oblivious dudes standing in it waiting to get ground into hamburger, I find ennui starts to set in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post

    2b) Gameplay. It's all combat. I'm fine with this, but there's something really, really repetitious about Righteous' dude-slaying so far. I mean sure there's like a zillion special abilities to fire off, but the resting system is extremely punishing so have fun trying to figure out if this is the fight to burn your once-a-day ability on. To be fair this probably improves at higher levels, but the flip side of fair, low levels exist, and require mulching just an acre of bad guys to get through. I think it's mostly because terrain is almost completely irrelevant - the number of encounters that can be described as "you mean X cultists/demons/spiders in a featureless 30x50 room" is huge, which pretty much kills anything beyond the most simplistic of positional tactics.

    That leaves pushing the shiny button to activate your character build; it's almost literally just back-to-back white room combats so beloved of the char ops folks, and after the seventh small room with two rando oblivious dudes standing in it waiting to get ground into hamburger, I find ennui starts to set in.
    This why I love hexes: Slumber is 1/target not 1/day.

    Terrain matters with stairs, the water elemental moves slowly and can't reach beside them, but not many kit/hit+run him.

    The Tower was decent with choices to push pillars instead of just fighting outright.

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    The lack of terrain advantages is one thing that does annoy me, yeah. I got super pissed off when my main character died from enemy archers shooting THROUGH A BOOKSHELF I had specifically parked myself behind to be safe when the combat started.

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    Do I need to play kingmaker before wrath of the righteous? Are they related at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zevox View Post
    Well, now I'm extra confused. You said you finished the first act, right? I'd take that to mean that you've defeated the first Lord? Because I was definitely running into enemies too tough to die to just four artes well before then, and apparently I'm on a lower difficulty than you.
    Yes. Usually 4 demon fangs plus whatever the other character throws out has them very low. It's worth noting that if you demon fang in melee range it hits twice. I'm hovering at about level 10 and have the best weapon possible for this point, so maybe that's the difference.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2021-09-14 at 01:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Do I need to play kingmaker before wrath of the righteous? Are they related at all?
    Not in the slightest. While there are a couple of Adventure Paths that are connected to each other (Rise of the Runelords, Shattered Star, and Return of the Runelords form a complete "Runelords" saga, and I think there's a sequel to Legacy of Fire), they're mostly self-contained. It was one of the mandates for Paizo actually that Golarion would be mostly a static setting; unless you're playing an explicit sequel no other AP is assumed to have taken place at all, so there's not the issue Forgotten Realms had of there being some earth shattering crisis every couple years that needed a completely new batch of high level heroes to solve for...some reason.

    The CRPG seems to assume that Kingmaker DID happen with a few references to "a new kingdom over by Brevoy" but their plots don't mesh even though Brevoy is actually the adjacent kingdom to the southeast of Mendev (where Wrath takes place).

    Similarly, if they were to do Iron Gods next, I doubt it would do anything more than make references to the other two, even though it ALSO takes place in the same general area (directly south of Mendev and west of Brevoy in Numeria).
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2021-09-14 at 01:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Not in the slightest. While there are a couple of Adventure Paths that are connected to each other (Rise of the Runelords, Shattered Star, and Return of the Runelords form a complete "Runelords" saga, and I think there's a sequel to Legacy of Fire), they're mostly self-contained. It was one of the mandates for Paizo actually that Golarion would be mostly a static setting; unless you're playing an explicit sequel no other AP is assumed to have taken place at all, so there's not the issue Forgotten Realms had of there being some earth shattering crisis every couple years that needed a completely new batch of high level heroes to solve for...some reason.

    The CRPG seems to assume that Kingmaker DID happen with a few references to "a new kingdom over by Brevoy" but their plots don't mesh even though Brevoy is actually the adjacent kingdom to the southeast of Mendev (where Wrath takes place).

    Similarly, if they were to do Iron Gods next, I doubt it would do anything more than make references to the other two, even though it ALSO takes place in the same general area (directly south of Mendev and west of Brevoy in Numeria).
    Fair enough. Thanks. I didn't care for kingmaker, but I enjoy high power settings, and the concept of this new game so I may grab it and see if a few years of polish have fixed my gripes with the original.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    My difficulty settings, if you're interested:
    Thanks, those seem fine, though I was more concerned by the more day-to-day design decisions like low level mooks with 18-20 stats and +1-2 weapons like back in Kingmaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    The power level is VERY high in the game due to mythic feats and the mythic paths on the main char.

    At level 11, mythic rank 3 a random encounter I had just travelling was 2 Nabasu, 2 Derakni and a Nalfeshnee (roughly CR 15-16 on tabletop). They died in about 2 rounds (though it was a 6 person party).

    Im at level 15 now mythic rank 5, and casually pounced and killed a balor on the surprise round while wandering the Abyssa city in Act 4. That said the last “boss” I fought had something like 53 AC so the big fights are still challenging.
    Ohh, so the inflation is because of the mythic stuff. That makes more sense. Still, it's inflation, though, which leaves me a bit on the fence. Guess I'll have to experience it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    2b) Gameplay. It's all combat. I'm fine with this, but there's something really, really repetitious about Righteous' dude-slaying so far. I mean sure there's like a zillion special abilities to fire off, but the resting system is extremely punishing so have fun trying to figure out if this is the fight to burn your once-a-day ability on. To be fair this probably improves at higher levels, but the flip side of fair, low levels exist, and require mulching just an acre of bad guys to get through. I think it's mostly because terrain is almost completely irrelevant - the number of encounters that can be described as "you mean X cultists/demons/spiders in a featureless 30x50 room" is huge, which pretty much kills anything beyond the most simplistic of positional tactics. That leaves pushing the shiny button to activate your character build; it's almost literally just back-to-back white room combats so beloved of the char ops folks, and after the seventh small room with two rando oblivious dudes standing in it waiting to get ground into hamburger, I find ennui starts to set in.
    That was my take on Kingmaker as well, so this is a bit disheartening to hear. I mean, I loved Icewind Dale too back in "the days", but that was two decades ago.

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    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: What Are You Playing 5: New Thread+

    So survived Tower Defense (no buildings destroyed but many crusaders are mourning), but can't figure out how to attack the Garrison.


    Online says I need to have saved Thieflings in Market, but no idea who they were.
    Could be a bug or I'm lost.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    So for those playing Wrath how does the kingdom stuff compare to Kingmaker. I enjoyed kingmakers stuff for awhile but then you just realise all the events just circle around again and don't have any impact on the actual world which to be fair was one of my main issues with Kingmakers world, it's staticness. Is it more tied into the main game this time or is it still off doing its own thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cespenar View Post
    That was my take on Kingmaker as well, so this is a bit disheartening to hear. I mean, I loved Icewind Dale too back in "the days", but that was two decades ago.
    If anything I'd say Righteous is, at least very very early game, substantially worse. Kingmaker at least was mostly outdoors, with some variety in enemy types. The first chunk of Righteous is a Dungeon, followed by fighting through a keep (so above-ground dungeon). I really am talking about just a sequence of rooms containing a small number of baddies guarding some inconsequential bit of loot.
    Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
    When they shot him down on the highway,
    Down like a dog on the highway,
    And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.


    Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Wow, my experience with WOTR seems to be entirely contrary to what you guys are experiencing. Or, to be more precise, I am reacting to the game very differently. I am having a blast and the only real hangup that gets me is the chose of the developers to make you pick your feats before your class features (which locked me out of getting selective channel or boon companion when I would otherwise qualify for it). But, I am already level 9 and into the second Act of the game. World (Wound) exploration!
    Last edited by Eldonauran; 2021-09-14 at 10:08 AM.

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