A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #511
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Roy Greenhilt is useless?

    I don't know why certain people are trying to make a point that V is the most powerful member of the Order and if they were given more power they could end the story. Well, V has some bizarre and otherworldly things called character traits and character flaws. These make it so that they can't accomplish everything because their traits and flaws determine the choices they make.

    I don't think the case should be "If V thought the exact way I do when playing video games then the story would be over faster" because a story where people don't grow or change or realize their mistakes and overcome their flaws is really boring. Maybe in your game of D&D people don't have to change because you're just focused on stopping the bad guy, but OOTS isn't just a D&D game. It hasn't been for years.

    Maybe this isn't the point that people are trying to make anymore, but I'd just like my Hot Take to be heard here.
    And thus ends another great post by me. Unless the post was bad. Then it's another bad post. But usually I make good posts, so that's okay.

  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: Roy Greenhilt is useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    So bam! Lich fighter and lich wizard going at infinite goblins.
    Sounds like Diablo II, in the Cold Plains, if you just don't kill the fallen shamans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Can we all go back to talking about cheese?
    You are already discussing a 3.5 wizard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    , because itís literally infinite goblins! Heís going to fight them forever and ever and ever.
    If he's a Viking wizard, that's called Valhalla.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robots View Post
    Maybe in your game of D&D people don't have to change because you're just focused on stopping the bad guy, but OOTS isn't just a D&D game. It hasn't been for years.
    Our best games of D&D usually included some character growth, but, some were just dungeon crawls and also fun. It's not either or.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
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  3. - Top - End - #513
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    Default Re: Roy Greenhilt is useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Our best games of D&D usually included some character growth, but, some were just dungeon crawls and also fun. It's not either or.
    Ah, yeah. I understand it's a subjective experience.
    And thus ends another great post by me. Unless the post was bad. Then it's another bad post. But usually I make good posts, so that's okay.

  4. - Top - End - #514
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    Default Re: Roy Greenhilt is useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robots View Post
    I don't know why certain people are trying to make a point that V is the most powerful member of the Order and if they were given more power they could end the story. Well, V has some bizarre and otherworldly things called character traits and character flaws. These make it so that they can't accomplish everything because their traits and flaws determine the choices they make.

    I don't think the case should be "If V thought the exact way I do when playing video games then the story would be over faster" because a story where people don't grow or change or realize their mistakes and overcome their flaws is really boring. Maybe in your game of D&D people don't have to change because you're just focused on stopping the bad guy, but OOTS isn't just a D&D game. It hasn't been for years.

    Maybe this isn't the point that people are trying to make anymore, but I'd just like my Hot Take to be heard here.
    I'd also like to add that even a completely optimized V does not mean Roy would be useless. For example, only Roy was allowed in the Godsmoot - and were he not there, Greg would have escaped to the Dwarven lands with even more powerful vampire clerics in tow, possibly enough for Hel's gambit to have succeeded.

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Sounds like Diablo II, in the Cold Plains, if you just don't kill the fallen shamans.
    I know this aside is mostly tongue-in-cheek, but D2 has recharging spell points though, so endless attrition-free combat is a little easier to justify there.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Default Re: Roy Greenhilt is useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I'd also like to add that even a completely optimized V does not mean Roy would be useless. For example, only Roy was allowed in the Godsmoot - and were he not there, Greg would have escaped to the Dwarven lands with even more powerful vampire clerics in tow, possibly enough for Hel's gambit to have succeeded.
    (Was it ever stated that the bodyguards can't be so very perfect Godmode Sue spellcasters?)

  6. - Top - End - #516
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    Default Re: Roy Greenhilt is useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    (Was it ever stated that the bodyguards can't be so very perfect Godmode Sue spellcasters?)
    They looked to all be martials ("if you have a missile weapon, pick a vampire and shoot!") but I don't know if that's a hard requirement.

    With that said - it's highly unlikely Greg would have brought anyone with even a chance of dispelling or counterspelling his antilife shell exit gambit, so that's moot
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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  7. - Top - End - #517
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    Default Re: Roy Greenhilt is useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    With that said - it's highly unlikely Greg would have brought anyone with even a chance of dispelling or counterspelling his antilife shell exit gambit, so that's moot
    Fair enough.

  8. - Top - End - #518
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    Default Re: Roy Greenhilt is useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I'd also like to add that even a completely optimized V does not mean Roy would be useless. For example, only Roy was allowed in the Godsmoot - and were he not there, Greg would have escaped to the Dwarven lands with even more powerful vampire clerics in tow, possibly enough for Hel's gambit to have succeeded.
    Bodyguard: I guess nobody can afford wizards as bodyguards.
    Spoiler: Diablo II digression
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I know this aside is mostly tongue-in-cheek, but D2 has recharging spell points though, so endless attrition-free combat is a little easier to justify there.
    That may be so, but, if you stack enough life steal into a melee weapon, rings, circlets, and whatever else provides life steal (I think some gloves do) and use the Sacrifice combat skill, a paladin can attack for ever without ever using a mana point in his entire career. (Yeah, it's slow going, but maxed out Sacrifice does quite a bit of damage). Once the 'immunes' hit, (Patch 1.10 IIRC) I think it takes a lower resist or an amp damage wand charge (on a weapon switch) to get the life steal going on selected bosses and for the weapon damage to register.
    Drop Three perfect diamonds into a shield, use the "resist all" aura (I forget what it's called at the moment, sanctuary?) and he just stands there hitting stuff.
    Add to that a few "Replenish life +5 affixes" and Bob's your uncle.

    And yeah, I got Diablo II remastered recently, and have been an utterly naughty boy, playing when I should be doing stuff my wife wants me to do. My son's in another city, but we now and again get onto bnet and play some hard core. Gawd, that game's addictive.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-10-06 at 03:55 PM.
    Avatar by linklele
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyDaze
    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
    How Teleport Works

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