A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #661
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    CaoimhinTheCape's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Actually, a couple questions I meant to ask:

    What did people think of Night Talk only? Particularly asking the Mafia members, since this theoretically made things harder for you by not coordinating during the Day.


    What did people think of swapping roles around? Annoying and needlessly complicated? Or a change of pace partway through the game?

  2. - Top - End - #662
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Seriously had a f-ton of fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supagoof View Post
    Well, I had an absolute blast. I really, really loved the game being based on analysis, not the mech. Mech is booooring. Analysis is fun. Even when I was pushed for scumread, my mind was always "why?" and it forced me to knock some dust off of deep analytical questioning where it hadn't before.

    Things I didn't do well -
    I was lead astray in the trust train. Found myself saying "Uh-huh, that makes sense..." far too often.
    I didn't research nearly at all to the level others did.
    I missed night one action. I let that level of guilt also lead me astray.

    Things I did do well -
    Had fun. Speaking of which, did I earn Popo bucks?
    Learned more about you guys, and this will help in the future. Note - "Never trust AV"
    Got inspired to write some really good parodies - hope you enjoyed them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Don't feel guilty about playing a bad guy role to the best of your ability. You did great, you murderous scum.
    Hey, mech can be pretty fun. At least if it is slightly more complicated than "detect evil".

    The guards were not that good for any side. Probably a bit more useful for scum early on, but better for town later. They are effective to make fake claiming dangerous. They are less useful to find new roles unless you can limit the options by some other means.
    That being said, my own guard usages were not really helpful.

    The Prince power was more useful for scum. The extra info about the way the roles changed made it easy for us to track roles.

    The king was neutral. Both sides could use it to accurately determine one past role and get a good guess for the new role. (A prince could influence things in favor for scum)

    The maiden was neutral as well. For town, the kill protection was strong, for scum the protection from scries.

    The Baron was a bit easier for scum to use (better knowledge about the targets) but otherwise neutral.

    The Priest was more useful for town, but scum could gain something nice from it as well. We could identify gac as Baron by seeing his targets.

    The Princess would have been a great boon for town. Unkillable at day, so they could have played aggressive. An inactive with this power was really bad luck.

    The countess could have been more powerful as well, if Libro had used his position of trust some more.

    In a similar game, it might be interesting to add a neutral role who could see the unused roles instead of giving scum this power. Maybe allow this neutral to use the power of one of the inactive roles each night, so there is an active component as well?




    It's actually hard to resist agreeing with some of the more active players. They spend so much work in constructing the cases, how could they be wrong? Unless you spot a grave mistake, that is. (Or you know they are wrong, since you know the real alignment of the target)

    Never trust AV? Well... I told you to lynch her! In fact, this game I was voting for each and every of my team mates. That's a really good track record.

    I liked all of the RP posts this game. I had set me a target of one letter per day, but failed miserably... But still, it was fun to read what you all came up with. And having fun is the most important thing.




    Oh, I don't doubt I did well this match. Far from perfect, but well. However, in general I like to be honest. And it's frustrating when I have to balance being honest with my own victory condition AND the way things can be interpreted by you all.




    Since all wolves* are in agreement about the chat:
    Wolf chat is this way

    * Technically, Emmy didn't say she is fine with sharing, but since the whole chat only contains one post... I can't imagine she would mind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Actually, a couple questions I meant to ask:

    What did people think of Night Talk only? Particularly asking the Mafia members, since this theoretically made things harder for you by not coordinating during the Day.


    What did people think of swapping roles around? Annoying and needlessly complicated? Or a change of pace partway through the game?
    Night talk only is fine. Sure, it makes coordination harder, but you can always try to plan ahead a bit. Wolves had a number of advantages, we could take that disadvantage as well.
    I guess the Baron power might have been frustrating sometimes, since you had to wait a whole day before you could take full advantage of the thing. Maybe allow one post per member at the first day next time?

    About the role swapping, I already gave some thoughts about it in my roles review.
    It is an interesting mechanic, but it was highly in favor for the wolf team.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


    More Mafia

  3. - Top - End - #663
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Book Wombat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Thanks everyone for the game!
    \(^^)/

    Honestly didn't think anyone knew about the sig thing, something to change. Welp.
    I wonder why no one suspected AV for being the only one to point that out the day after I died.

    Was indeed a fun game, Mr Popo was... interesting.
    Rule Number One: Worship cookies!
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  4. - Top - End - #664
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Thanks everyone for the game!
    \(^^)/

    Honestly didn't think anyone knew about the sig thing, something to change. Welp.
    I wonder why no one suspected AV for being the only one to point that out the day after I died.

    Was indeed a fun game, Mr Popo was... interesting.
    I didn't knew you would do this. Kind of wish you had not done so, even if it was very useful for the wolf win. But you can read most of my struggle about this in the wolf chat.
    It was luck for my side, bad luck for yours.

    I think, it played a role that AV used this bit of info to construct a case against someone else. This way, someone else was in the focus of town instead of people wondering why you died. Of course it also helped that you died at night 2, so a lucky guess or process of elimination could have been an explanation for finding your role as well.

    By the way, you should listen to your dice some more
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


    More Mafia

  5. - Top - End - #665
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Lol, I honestly wasnt trying to soft anything with my RP. I just came up with an idea that let me RP as a Prince without actually claiming Prince.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 5
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 3
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 6

    I have no clue what Im doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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  6. - Top - End - #666
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Book Wombat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    By the way, you should listen to your dice some more
    Pfft. Reminds me of the game where I random voted both "cultists" on Day 1.
    Rule Number One: Worship cookies!
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  7. - Top - End - #667
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I'm curious to hear how Popo's solo-solving went post-death.
    I was mad at town for not resolving Rogan immediately like I said.

    And then you never dying at night would have been suspect, as I said.

    You get considered in f3 for not dying after everyone else dies.

    But if wolves win because they have partners alive, before f3, then game too short for you to die for being deep.

    GG well played for smoking me, AV.

    Deep wolves are good. Glad to have gotten punked. It's been a while since someone legit fooled me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was also disappointed at myself for not strongly towncasing goof better and Snow better.

    BatCatHat just felt like the other wolf. Shrug.

    I can't find every wolf. I usually get 2-3, and here I was, with 2-3.

    And called the bussing out, too.

    Good game. Not good enough, but it never is. Always improve.

    Rogan, sorry you don't like my style, but town never would have won this game if I didn't put your bussing to bed.

    And town didn't win because they didnt put your bussing to bed.

    AV ruled the town after I died, therefore, town didn't fight back hard enough.

    Good game.

    Individual townies gave great performances.

    Town as a whole did pretty okay.

    Wolves had a beast in AVecna. Good d1 distancing between Rogan and Vecna.

    Very well played, woofers.

    Popo get you next time!

    Adds 3 wolves to pile of accused/voted wolves.

    Sees town still dead, is sad. But hey, I was beat legitimately by good method acting.

    No one ever comes back from my assaults when theyre a wolf.

    Should have known it would have taken a God of Death to defeat the Guardian of Earth.

    Peace. Was fun playing with blades again.

    Gonna be gone now, back to the shadows with me. Got infant daughter to care for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also I loathe spoiled dead chats.

    Not because of the people in there, but because when people get spoiled, they start to form like a smug mob mentality against anyone who guessed wrong.

    It may not have happened here, but it happens a lot in spoiled spec and dead chats in places I play, so I just avoid them like the plague.

    I never even want to see inside, and I dislike spoilers.

    I also warned people about gac being town, and not to push there, in addititon to Goof, but.... I was dead, and quickly forgotten. And Snow still had popo bucks.

    Ah, Goof.

    I don't know if you earned funbucks, but you became a stronger townread than anyone except my blues due to the Xihirli unpairing, and so did Snow.

    So neither of you should ever have died.

    Hitting BatCat was easy because his iso looked like the last wolf. Shrug.

    If Popo not actually know the answer, he guess wrong when wrong answer look correct. It happens.

    Sorry about that. At least guessed Rogan right, and Emmy, reversed on Xi when wolves bussed Xi, and found townies from bussed Xi and accused Rogan off of bussed Xi.

    But no protection for Popo means I cant do more than that. 3 wolves accused is a lot.

    If not enough then.... yeah.

    Still my fault for townclearing Vecna. Did amaze job.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Didnt read everything, here is my personal quicktopic.

    https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/3R87Cz8jDDw

  8. - Top - End - #668
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Popo View Post
    You get considered in f3 for not dying after everyone else dies.
    This is why I aimed to get handmaid. I figured everybody knows wolves know handmaid is in unused, so if prince takes it out, everybody knows wolves know I have it, so they aim the kill elsewhere. I get to kill every night, and nobody suspects me because they think I'm only safe from being perma-baned.

    But if wolves win because they have partners alive, before f3, then game too short for you to die for being deep.

    GG well played for smoking me, AV.

    Deep wolves are good. Glad to have gotten punked. It's been a while since someone legit fooled me.
    FWIW this is probably the hardest I've ever tried at a game on either side, just cuz your presence kinda pushed for that extra effort. I ruined my sleep schedule trying to keep one step ahead and I'm honestly still not entirely sure why it worked. Even UPick and PJ weren't this stressful. I might need to sit the next game out.

    I'm definitely gonna need to incorporate some of the methods you mentioned in your process, and I probably need to figure out scumleans more scientifically like is done there, rather than what I've been doing. It works well enough, but as you said, there's always room to improve.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: nothing currently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    It's always AvatarVecna time.

  9. - Top - End - #669
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Mr Popo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I'm definitely gonna need to incorporate some of the methods you mentioned in your process, and I probably need to figure out scumleans more scientifically like is done there, rather than what I've been doing. It works well enough, but as you said, there's always room to improve.
    Why I am happy you smoked me is because otherwise I am not learning something new.

    I want my guide to be a good read, a useful read.

    If someone reads my guide and then runs into you, I want them to be ready.

    I wasn't.

    Literally 500 games and no one has done what you did to me. Well played, shake hands, deeply admirable wolfing.

    Genius level. Mainly WIM, but also, the d1 unpairing usually works and it failed here for you.

    Worked on every other wolf and locked a lot of townies town, but nooooot quite good enough.

    Whenever we are GLORIOUS but noooot quite glorious enough, that means we can improve the process.

    Process worked.

    Doesn't look pretty when it keeps bumping into walls but look at end result of rounds:

    1) Villager that was really hard to sort as not wolfy, still unvoted before end of round but wagons couldnt change.
    2) Wolf
    3) Wolf
    4) Dead, but pointing at Wolf.

    Process works.

    It is sloppy, but gets there in the end and sweeps all the scums, usually. Like a Roomba.

    But even a Roomba that does the whole room over and over can sometimes get stuck and miss a spot.

    Need entire village to double check Roomba's work, see if any spots still dirty.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Supagoof View Post
    Well, I had an absolute blast. I really, really loved the game being based on analysis, not the mech. Mech is booooring. Analysis is fun. Even when I was pushed for scumread, my mind was always "why?" and it forced me to knock some dust off of deep analytical questioning where it hadn't before.

    Things I didn't do well -
    I was lead astray in the trust train. Found myself saying "Uh-huh, that makes sense..." far too often.
    I didn't research nearly at all to the level others did.
    I missed night one action. I let that level of guilt also lead me astray.

    Things I did do well -
    Had fun. Speaking of which, did I earn Popo bucks?
    Learned more about you guys, and this will help in the future. Note - "Never trust AV"
    Got inspired to write some really good parodies - hope you enjoyed them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Don't feel guilty about playing a bad guy role to the best of your ability. You did great, you murderous scum.
    I enjoyed everything about you, Supagoof.

    It makes me sad I can't join the next game you are in and just sit and enjoy the whole thing with you.

    Our time together was too short. Wish we had more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    As soon as I was snug in Popo's pocket, I killed him off so that I wouldn't have to worry about continuing to fool him. This is why my effort dropped off massively D4, btw: putting that much effort into WW tends to get pretty tiring for me, and continuously keeping Popo off my scent basically screwed up my sleep cycles for the past week and a half, and probably for the next week while I fix them.
    HAHAHAHAAHAAAAAA

    That makes Mr Popo feel very good.

    If you have to go that ham and that hard and screw up your real life to pull a fast one on Mr Popo then I have absolutely done my job and presented you with a worrysome challenge.

    Kudos to you, and warm appreciations for the respeck.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Honestly, I'm surprised no one realised I got N1'd because I picked up Rogan's positioning in thread D1 was wolfy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I am curious to see D1 wolfchat tho. Anyone willing to share that?
    I don't borrow dead player's reads.

    I did confirm you suspected Rogan, after I did on my own.

    Felt good man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Yeah, I doubt we would have ever won a F3 against AV. Still. At least Id be less mad at myself.
    Always ask why the most widely townread player never got night killed.

    Thats why it is dangerous to be so widely townread.

    Wolf team was able to steal handmaiden role, which means that wolves have an excuse to never be nightkilled.

    Which destroys analysis.

    Doctors destroy town analysis.

    It's usually simple: Towniest player ever lives entire game, all other wolves dead, bussed them all?

    That's bussing.

    Invert your town to wolf list at the end. Popo has done it many times.

    Doctor screws that up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    Thanks for the game!
    Dead chat.

    I really didn't expect anyone to see my sig thing, welp.
    Probably would ask that this sort of play doesn't happen in future games, because A) its not very good for town and B) it is almost the same as out of game communication, like PMing someone.

    It's a workaround the rule of no private communication.

    No rule against it, so it is legal here, no problem for me. You were creative.

    I am just suggesting this loophole get closed for all future games.

    We could have used a town handmaiden, after all.

  10. - Top - End - #670
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Honestly, I'm surprised no one realised I got N1'd because I picked up Rogan's positioning in thread D1 was wolfy.
    Can't realize things that didn't happen. Here's quotes for you:

    Quote Originally Posted by scumchat #21 (AV)
    People we shouldn't kill, and why not:

    gac3: Popo might be chasing gac down tomorrow
    AvatarVecna: scumbuddy
    Xihirli: scumbuddy
    Book Wombat: Popo might be chasing BW down tomorrow
    Rogue_Alchemist: Inactive, will self-resolve
    Snowblaze: is baiting us into killing her
    Libro: is baned tonight 9 times out of 10
    EmmyNecromancer: scumbuddy
    Rogan: scumbuddy
    JeenLeen: already dead

    That leaves our list of potential kill targets as follows:
    bladescape
    BatCatHat
    Supagoof
    Mr. Popo
    Quote Originally Posted by scumchat #28 (AV)
    Supagoof is being so quiet they're basically inactive. They might come back strong D2, but probably not too strong. Additionally, I'd rather not kill somebody who just rejoined the community.

    bladescape is supposedly gonna be more casual this game (which lines up so far), but if they switch back on, that's bad for us. Your status is going to be constantly reevaluated, and I'm already set up to throw you under the bus if a good opportunity arrives - killing blade won't look like "rogan killed blade to prevent reevaluation", because nothing can prevent anybody from being reevaluated after a D1 like that.

    Batcathat is active and townread by Popo, but that might change in re-eval, and in any case they're not the most dangerous player.

    Mr Popo has been acting confident they can't be killed the whole game. It might be a ruse, it might be the truth that he wants us to think is a ruse. Thinking about whether or not to kill Mr Popo is playing into his hands somehow, and he's another old gamer returning to the community, so I'm disinclined to kill him immediately - if that happens too often, it might drive him away, and I'm more concerned with the community than the individual game.

    I'd prefer to kill bladescape, of this list, with Batcathat as my backup. If I were feeling particularly spicy, I might target Mr Popo on the assumption that this whole thing has been an act because he's convinced the wolf-team is bad and that wolf team also isn't going to take risks like "kill somebody who is highly likely to be baned". If I were taking the most fun option (but not the one that I think would give us the best chance of victory), I'd play a mindgame of my own and kill gac3 - eliminate one of the people on Popo's public shortlist of scum suspects. It's sorta like dumping wine bottles all over the table - I'm not setting him up for a specific poisoned wine bottle, as much as just trying to get him thinking in circles of what we're trying to say with that kind of kill.
    Targeting blade was just a matter of eliminating people who would be bad NK targets - no scumbuddies, nobody getting wagoned tomorrow, no inactives, nobody who's probably baned. Popo is maybe baned, Libro is definitely baned (except apparently not lol), Libro/goof/RA are inactive...there weren't really many good options left for guaranteeing the kill goes through.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-09-24 at 05:33 PM.


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    It's always AvatarVecna time.

  11. - Top - End - #671
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Mr Popo has been acting confident they can't be killed the whole game. It might be a ruse, it might be the truth that he wants us to think is a ruse. Thinking about whether or not to kill Mr Popo is playing into his hands somehow, and he's another old gamer returning to the community, so I'm disinclined to kill him immediately - if that happens too often, it might drive him away, and I'm more concerned with the community than the individual game.
    No worries, I had a 4 week window where I could plausibly play again because vacation and wife giving birth so I was at home a lot.

    Now with 3 week old daughter and nearly 2 year old son, and wife needing my help, this is quits again for the foreseeable future.

    You can't drive me away, I quit!

    I was always going to be a cameo here. Wanted to play with AV and Bladescape again specifically, and they did not disappoint.

  12. - Top - End - #672
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Popo View Post
    No worries, I had a 4 week window where I could plausibly play again because vacation and wife giving birth so I was at home a lot.

    Now with 3 week old daughter and nearly 2 year old son, and wife needing my help, this is quits again for the foreseeable future.

    You can't drive me away, I quit!

    I was always going to be a cameo here. Wanted to play with AV and Bladescape again specifically, and they did not disappoint.
    <3

    I'm just sad it was only for a day lmao.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Can't realize things that didn't happen. Here's quotes for you:





    Targeting blade was just a matter of eliminating people who would be bad NK targets - no scumbuddies, nobody getting wagoned tomorrow, no inactives, nobody who's probably baned. Popo is maybe baned, Libro is definitely baned (except apparently not lol), Libro/goof/RA are inactive...there weren't really many good options left for guaranteeing the kill goes through.
    Well, I stand corrected haha.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  13. - Top - End - #673
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Hey Vecna, this game ended my town winning streak.

    I mean, the memes game did as well, but that was an entirely image based game.

    This was the proper game that ended my town dominance. Quite the feather in your cap, you proper Capo di Tutti Capi.

  14. - Top - End - #674
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    i just realized I had a near epic day one when I made the third vote on Vecna.

    Oooooooooooo that stings a bit.

  15. - Top - End - #675
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Popo View Post
    No worries, I had a 4 week window where I could plausibly play again because vacation and wife giving birth so I was at home a lot.

    Now with 3 week old daughter and nearly 2 year old son, and wife needing my help, this is quits again for the foreseeable future.

    You can't drive me away, I quit!

    I was always going to be a cameo here. Wanted to play with AV and Bladescape again specifically, and they did not disappoint.
    No worries, I was in your shoes at one point too. See you in about a decade, congratulations on the parenthood.

    Also, there isn't a rulebook on parenting. As long as you love them, you're doing it right. Remember that on the tough days.
    Spoiler
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    Legionary of Protection
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-kat View Post
    It wasn't that easy. Supagoof's just that good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is LLD, which, I shouldn't have to tell you, will not bow to your math because it was DESIGNED to ruin it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Summary:
    Supagoof has won the game and withdrawn. He was Epic

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