A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Sugapoof because i was going to vote BCH and you beat me too it.
    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Oh man. I forgot this game started. I need to catch up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay... So Mr. Popo claimed? But then said "don't give hints as to who the princess is not... I might be the princess. Does that mean they didn't claim?

    This is not a "this seems Wolfy" post as much as "is this what happened" post.
    Yes. That is what happened. I don't know whether the claim is real.

    Also: how do you forget a game started... when you already posted in it?

    Also also: I'm the Princess. Honestly. Definitely not lying.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

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  2. - Top - End - #62
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Oh man. I forgot this game started. I need to catch up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay... So Mr. Popo claimed? But then said "don't give hints as to who the princess is not... I might be the princess. Does that mean they didn't claim?

    This is not a "this seems Wolfy" post as much as "is this what happened" post.
    I think so.
    Here's the order of relevant things I saw:

    1. Mr. Popo claimed the Countess role.
    2. Libro maybe implied a counterclaim. Not really clear what he meant.
    3. Mr. Popo responded (jokingly?) as if Libro was asking about "Count" vs "Countess" as opposed to a claim.
    4. During later discussion, Mr. Popo said he might be the princess. Which I read as them backing off from their prior claim, but it wasn't explicitly that.

    Now, to me, that does read as wolfy. But, since the wolves supposedly know who the unclaimed roles are, it looks non-wolfy since I can't see a wolf fakeclaiming Countess when they know Countess is in play. So ends up as confusing.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Oh man. I forgot this game started. I need to catch up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay... So Mr. Popo claimed? But then said "don't give hints as to who the princess is not... I might be the princess. Does that mean they didn't claim?

    This is not a "this seems Wolfy" post as much as "is this what happened" post.
    To help, the snowy person who is also on fire asked the Countess to claim, and then I immediately did so in a cross post that I was already making when she asked.

    This can be found on the previous page, and is why the identity of the Countess shall remain a mystery for the ages. Is it Mr Popo, who is clearly a person of masculine persuasion? According to the roles given out this game by the game host, I am forced to agree that I am now a lady person.

    However, in case that's wrong, I am also the Princess who is hiding in plain sight, because I don't like giving hints to the disloyal maggots where I am and am not, and I would like to encourage others not to in the likely event of my own demise where I can't protect the Princess anymore, who is me probably.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Also: how do you forget a game started... when you already posted in it?
    If not that I already know someone I want to move my vote onto, that misstep is enough to make me vote gac3 D1. Does seem odd.

    Also also: I'm the Princess. Honestly. Definitely not lying.
    You posted after Mr. Popo claimed, but did not claim then. So I'm assuming you're lying.
    If not, want to throw a bold to back that up?

    Eh... I was going to wait until 5 pm to post this, but I'll go ahead and post it now.




    After a little more thought, I started having second thoughts about Snowblaze's plan. I wrote up my arguement against it shortly after my first post, but was waiting to post it until giving others' time to vote and talk.
    But then I accidentally closed Notepad and lost it. So trying to write it up again.

    Would wolf!Snowblaze propose this plan?
    How bad is it if we mislynch town!Snowblaze? (Keeping in mind we will probably mislynch D1 anyhow.)

    I realized this plan effectively eliminates a large amount of the Town's power, at little to no risk to wolves.
    The Princess is revealed, but her vote is nullified. She becomes a null player.
    The Countess is revealed, but since the wolves know who the Princess is, she won't help catch wolves.
    The handmaidens are occupied, and thus won't stop the wolf NK or other actions.

    This effectively gives the wolves free reign to target with minimal risk of getting caught, and, while it creates a town-verified duo, they only have 1 vote between them. And the Baron (if even Town) can't communicate with either to expand a private network.
    So, yeah, there's watcher powers and maybe the Guard(s) could catch someone, but it's less likely if those roles are occupied. That's a good setup for the wolves to have time to hunt out the rest of Town and be able to overwhelm the Countess and Princess via controlling the lynch, especially if (as the plan is going as intended) wolf!Snowblaze has a lot of towncred and thus coasts safely.

    Now, Snowblaze's plan does have some merit. Not saying it doesn't. But I'd trust it a lot more if we knew Snowblaze's alignment. So I propose lynch her.
    If she's town, we go ahead with the plan; with little evidence pro or con anyone, her death at least yields some info and is probably better than mislynching someone else. Princess could claim N1 or probably wait until D2 if feeling that way.
    If she's a wolf, we know the plan is pro-wolf and avoid it. Either way, we're off to a fair start: a good strategy, or a wolf dead D1.

    Tangent: belief of claims
    I'm leaning to believing what folk have said about their Roles thus far. Not that it necessarily means a ton, but at least believing Snowblaze means that lynching Snowblaze won't destroy her plan via eliminating the Princess or Countess.
    I believe Rogan's claim, though admittingly his claim isn't saying a lot (basically claiming not Princess, Countess, or handmaiden.)
    Before Libro's post, I mostly believed Mr. Popo, but not 100%. Now unsure of what I think. While I agree that AvatarVecna's death gives some info on me and others... well, if she flips Town, Mr. Popo's vote-rationale sounds like a wolf trying to appear towny to justify the vote. But I guess also reasonable as a townie. Hard to read.

    Did Libro counterclaim Mr. Popo?
    I dislike Libro's maybe-implied-counterclaim, while he explicitly states he's on break and thus sets the groundwork that he doesn't have much time to post and has a rationale for not being able to clarify anytime soon. It feels like something a wolf might say to get a wagon on Mr. Popo, only for the wolf to be able to clarify "too late" during the weekend when posting might be low.

    Though I guess I'm paranoid enough to contemplate that the wolves might be trying to gain towncred via both of them being wolves and hoping at least one becomes trusted. But that seems unlikely between role-switchers that could fail, watchers that could see a supposed-Countess targeting, and Guards maybe able to confirm an unswitchable Role. But that's probably too bold a move for wolves to make. On the other hand, I could see wolves doing that if they had sufficient numbers (4+?) and knew there was no Countess in play.
    ...urgh, confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    So I could see a world where you are a wolf, suggest a plan you know will fail, telegraph this possibilty AND get away with it. Those are things I propably won't have to worry about, I know. But I still have them in my mind and you might remember something about me: I still have to learn when to shut up!

    All in all, I think you are more likely to be town than wolf. But I respect your skills enough to think you could fake this. And I would like to know if I am the only one who thinks that way.
    I could see that scenario, but I think it more likely that wolf!Snowblaze would plan for the plan to succeed (to gain towncred), but that the plan isn't actually as good for town as it sounds.
    But, yes, I also have a complimentary paranoia about Snowblaze.

    I'm pretty sure the wolves do not contain all of Snowblaze, Libro, and Mr. Popo. Seems too bold to do two schemes D1 (Libro-maybe-counterclaim-Popo in a double-fakeclaim-Countess move, and Snowblaze's plan). So if two of those three wind up flipping wolf, I trust the third. Yet, the longer I let the paranoia stew, the more I could consider it as possible. So crazy a gambit the wolves feel compelled to take it, since no way the Town would believe it. And not like any seers exist in this game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Note: when I wrote the long chunk of stuff above, Snowblaze's claim was "not Countess or Princess". I also take her latest claim as joking, but, uh, felt like I wanted to clarify since that context did maybe-change.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2021-09-10 at 09:38 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Libro maybe implied a counterclaim. Not really clear what he meant.
    That's not how I read it at all. If Libro were counterclaiming me they would have said so. More likely, they don't think anyone but a wolf would just start claiming stuff for no reason and promoting a mass claim, which is terrible in this setup. If Libro were a wolf they would welcome such a mass claim.

    They just have to keep looking and they will see I explicitly said it was a bad idea and that no one else should claim today, otherwise it becomes easy to narrow down where the Princess is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Yes. That is what happened. I don't know whether the claim is real.

    Also: how do you forget a game started... when you already posted in it?

    Also also: I'm the Princess. Honestly. Definitely not lying.
    It is an honor to meet you, my lady.

    I, too, am a pretty pretty Princess.

    - - - Updated - - -

    JeenLeen is moving off of the avatar of death and destruction and voting for the most villagery person in the game, who happens to be my twin sister, the Princess.

    I am not sure that's an optimal move for a member of either faction, to be really frank.

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    Jeen's assessment is correct. Anyone is free to say "I'm the Princess!". If it's not in bold, I will not pay attention to it and it's up to player speculation. This could lead to any number of players claiming to be Princess without any GM verification, just like people claiming Innocent Child in another game.

    If the actual Princess says the words "I'm the Princess" but does not bold it, votes will still count against her up until she makes the claim in bolded text.

    Rules as written are what I stated above and what I'm going with. Princess is a very powerful role by design - if someone soft claims Princess then they are not confirmed by me and can still be voted or counterclaimed per normal.

    As for whether soft claiming is a good strategy or there are ways around it, I won't comment.
    Thanks for the clarification. I might not like the rules as written, but I don't blame you.

    However, I will blame anybody using the option of claiming without bolding. If you want to have the protection of beeing a princess, you should pay the prize as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Oh man. I forgot this game started. I need to catch up.

    Okay... So Mr. Popo claimed? But then said "don't give hints as to who the princess is not... I might be the princess. Does that mean they didn't claim?

    This is not a "this seems Wolfy" post as much as "is this what happened" post.
    Hello Gac, nice to see you.

    Yes, Mr. Popo claimed Count. And I think his claim still stands, but he doesn't want the princess to revial herself. Or anybody claiming not Princess, which would reduce the number of people who could be the Princess.
    On the other hand, it is very much possible for nobody to be the Princess yet.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    The Princess is revealed, but her vote is nullified. She becomes a null player.
    Wait, does a confirmed Princess lose her own vote? I thought it was only the votes against her that were nullified. But the rules are a little like time zones in terms of how confident I am in understanding them.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    I know I am being vague about everything else, but I am still the Count. That is and was my claim.

    But like, everyone is also the Princess. It's a funny thing, that. You would think that the game host was trolling us, but we are definitely all Princesses as well as our real roles.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Yes, Mr. Popo claimed Count. And I think his claim still stands
    This was supposed to be above previous.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    The description of the Princess says "Once per game, you may publicly declare yourself Princess (by bolding words to the effect of Claim: Princess). The Narrator will confirm your role. Going forward, your vote count at the end of each Day will be set to 0, regardless of how many people voted you. After revealing yourself, the only Night action that can target you is the Mafia kill." The bolded part makes me think it's only votes against the Princess that are affected. Or is there some other part of the rules I'm missing?

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Also also: I'm the Princess. Honestly. Definitely not lying.
    You are THAT close to earning a vote from me. But I will let you off since you seem to be joking and I have you on my don't kill day 1 list.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    The description of the Princess says "Once per game, you may publicly declare yourself Princess (by bolding words to the effect of Claim: Princess). The Narrator will confirm your role. Going forward, your vote count at the end of each Day will be set to 0, regardless of how many people voted you. After revealing yourself, the only Night action that can target you is the Mafia kill." The bolded part makes me think it's only votes against the Princess that are affected. Or is there some other part of the rules I'm missing?
    No. That's my bad.
    For some reason, I misread "vote count" as an awkward way of saying "the value of your own vote", and so misread it as the Princess' vote changing from 1 to 0. Not that votes against the Princess count as 0, which is obviously the correct and logical interpretation.

    That does make Snowblaze's plan more pro-town.
    But I still find it iffy in that it basically directs the Handmaidens to known targets, letting wolf NKs goes relatively free and wolf King/Princes get targets they know they can target.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Wait, does a confirmed Princess lose her own vote? I thought it was only the votes against her that were nullified. But the rules are a little like time zones in terms of how confident I am in understanding them.
    I think this is correct but to be sure one need only refer to the first post of the game.



    Hi Batcathat, can I interest you in a dead lich today? I mean, they're already dead, we're just going to make them another kind of dead, which is arrested.

    Take that, "god" of destruction. You're in a castle dungeon cell. I know you can teleport, but that's the plan we're going with.

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    Personally I kind of like to dunk them in "holy water", aka Popo's urine. Sacre-licious!

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Now, Snowblaze's plan does have some merit. Not saying it doesn't. But I'd trust it a lot more if we knew Snowblaze's alignment. So I propose lynch her.
    If she's town, we go ahead with the plan; with little evidence pro or con anyone, her death at least yields some info and is probably better than mislynching someone else. Princess could claim N1 or probably wait until D2 if feeling that way.
    If she's a wolf, we know the plan is pro-wolf and avoid it. Either way, we're off to a fair start: a good strategy, or a wolf dead D1.
    Is it just me or does Jeen's reasoning here seem a little odd? Lynching someone to judge if their plan is pro-wolves or pro-town instead of just dissecting the plan and judging it on its own merits?

  14. - Top - End - #74
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    The description of the Princess says "Once per game, you may publicly declare yourself Princess (by bolding words to the effect of Claim: Princess). The Narrator will confirm your role. Going forward, your vote count at the end of each Day will be set to 0, regardless of how many people voted you. After revealing yourself, the only Night action that can target you is the Mafia kill." The bolded part makes me think it's only votes against the Princess that are affected. Or is there some other part of the rules I'm missing?
    I agree with this interpretation. The princess can vote, but can't be voted. Well, technicaly she can be voted, but those would not count.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    That does make Snowblaze's plan more pro-town.
    But I still find it iffy in that it basically directs the Handmaidens to known targets, letting wolf NKs goes relatively free and wolf King/Princes get targets they know they can target.
    Yeah but she's the Princess, she can do what she wants. It's up to all of us to follow the idea or not, and I put in a kindly and respectfully worded letter to her highness (which is also me) that we should not follow this particular plan, as villagery as the intent is, it is also quite pro-disloyal in effect.

    And we must remember to word it respectfully as we are talking to royalty, my dear JeenLeen fighting machine.

    Apologies, my lady. I didn't recognize you without your dress. I look forward to your becoming the new queen someday as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Is it just me or does Jeen's reasoning here seem a little odd? Lynching someone to judge if their plan is pro-wolves or pro-town instead of just dissecting the plan and judging it on its own merits?
    No, it is not only you.

    Every single one of Jeen's posts makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. Which is a pretty neat trick, as Popo is hairless. He's a genie, not a monkey.

    Spoiler
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    He's also a lady, and royalty baby.


    I am trying to talk Jeen down and get on the same page, but I am not forced to vote for Vecna today, is what I am saying.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Is it just me or does Jeen's reasoning here seem a little odd? Lynching someone to judge if their plan is pro-wolves or pro-town instead of just dissecting the plan and judging it on its own merits?
    The reason I propose this is because I think we (as the Town with limited intel) necessarily can't know as many details as the wolves know. I can see the plan as made by a townie or a wolf, and as either pro-town or pro-wolf. (And not mutually exclusive: a townie can (and I definitely have as town) propose a pro-wolf plan thinking it's a good move for town. And the wolves might propose a pro-town plan by accident, or even for towncred if they think it's not too anti-wolf.)

    Since there's unknowns that make it hard to tell if the plan is a sound one, I'd like to know the alignment of the person proposing it. I trust Snowblaze's reasoning abilities, so if she as Town proposed it, I'd go with it being a good plan.

    But I can get your point. But for the D1 lynch we have so little to go on, I find it useful. Usually when there's nobody I strongly suspect, I like to lynch the person whose death will yield the most info about survivors' alignment, I don't think Snowblaze's death will do that, but it will yield useful info about the source of her plan.

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Alright let's kill Libro it's been ages since the last good ol' rousing round of kill libro.
    Ok, listen Android 16, I know you want to kill Libro and only Libro all day every day, but if you take a look at Vecna for a moment, you will see that Vecna is an undead abomination comprised of 10.78% of Son Libro's DNA.

    I trust that if you scan them, you will find that these parameters are acceptable.

    Besides, I have it on good authority that Libro is a one post wonder and clearly loyal to the Princess this game, which is also Libro.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    But for the D1 lynch we have so little to go on, I find it useful. Usually when there's nobody I strongly suspect, I like to lynch the person whose death will yield the most info about survivors' alignment, I don't think Snowblaze's death will do that, but it will yield useful info about the source of her plan.
    I prefer finding arguments that lead to the arrest and exile of disloyal persons.

    I find the game is easier to solve when the disloyal persons are already rounded up and in prison.

    Can I re-interest you in a re-death for the un-dead abomination Vecna who is at the very least not clearly and obviously loyal to the crown?

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    But I can get your point. But for the D1 lynch we have so little to go on, I find it useful. Usually when there's nobody I strongly suspect, I like to lynch the person whose death will yield the most info about survivors' alignment, I don't think Snowblaze's death will do that, but it will yield useful info about the source of her plan.
    That's not the worst explanation but something still feels off to me, so lacking better ideas I'm gonna say JeenLeenfor now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    That's not the worst explanation but something still feels off to me, so lacking better ideas I'm gonna say JeenLeenfor now.
    By "off", do you mean it is basically an argument to arrest a loyal person for the purposes of confirming that they are loyal, rather than based on suspicion of disloyalty?

    Spoiler
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    Because yes, it's off like all the lights in rural North Korea.


    - - - Updated - - -

    To make Popo's position clear: it is an argument that could be used against any person who proposes any idea that may in fact be pro-town or not.

    We'd better make sure they're town before we follow the plan, which we are also not going to follow and we already decided that.

    So, Jeen can assist me with destroying an actual suspect today or I can join you on voting for Jeen.

    There may only be room in this game for one Genie, but I am continuing to give Jeen rope to hang someone else with rather than himself. It's always possible they are just an accidentally disloyal looking pretty pretty princess.

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Yes. That is what happened. I don't know whether the claim is real.

    Also: how do you forget a game started... when you already posted in it?

    Also also: I'm the Princess. Honestly. Definitely not lying.
    Because I am not in other games right now and have school and overtime and got into the habit of only checking like every other day and after posting the first time I got busy. I honestly even now don't remember if this started yesterday or two days ago. (I plan to check after this reply.)

    Then someone said this makes me look vote worthy. I didn't spot anyone accusing me of being inactive or not talking, so what is the point of anyone, wolf or town, being all "I forgot the game was happening, if they aren't either telling the truth or defending against inactive targetting.

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Time for me to read how this game works lol. Throwaway vote on Libro in case I fall off the face of the Earth - that way I'm still voting the least active player.
    For reference, here is the avatar of death voting for obviously loyal one post wonder Libro.

    Between the two of them, I literally always hit Vecna.

    If Jeen would like to push the Avatar of Death into an early prison cell, Popo could use the extra muscle. This one might put up a fight.

    Because like, if Jeen is loyal, that would be helpful to me, and if he is disloyal, I like putting disloyal people in the position of helping me arrest their fellow conspirators, and then giving them absolutely zero town credit for doing so.

    That is what makes Mr Popo laugh and laugh.

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Popo View Post
    Ok, listen Android 16, I know you want to kill Libro and only Libro all day every day, but if you take a look at Vecna for a moment, you will see that Vecna is an undead abomination comprised of 10.78% of Son Libro's DNA.

    I trust that if you scan them, you will find that these parameters are acceptable.

    Besides, I have it on good authority that Libro is a one post wonder and clearly loyal to the Princess this game, which is also Libro.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I prefer finding arguments that lead to the arrest and exile of disloyal persons.

    I find the game is easier to solve when the disloyal persons are already rounded up and in prison.

    Can I re-interest you in a re-death for the un-dead abomination Vecna who is at the very least not clearly and obviously loyal to the crown?

    Okay, now I have to ask... You push for an AV lynch quite hard for... No good reason at all? Or do you know something we don't?
    I mean, when I voted AV, you did not like my reasons. And I absolutely admit, my reasons are not terribly good. But I don't think you gave ANY reason at all. Well, except the name, but that's a very very weak reason.

    If you didn't claim to be married to our beloved Countess, I would vote for you now.
    You started wanting a mass claim, quickly changed your mind on this and now work against Snows Plan.
    This plan is basically forced to happen now. We can not afford to loose the Countess, otherwise the Princess can not Claim or she is basically guaranteed to die the next night. With the Countess in the open, the Princess has nothing to loose by claiming, unless she believes the plan will fail. But for the Plan to fail, we would need to be either increadible unlucky, or there is a traitor ammong Snow and you, Mr. Popo.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Why was AV suspicious again? I'll reread but don't recall a specific case

    - - - Updated - - -

    My next post will have gamestate thoughts but I'll be writing it as a letter rp because that sounds fun
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




    My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Okay, now I have to ask... You push for an AV lynch quite hard for... No good reason at all? Or do you know something we don't?
    I will answer all your questions as you return the favor. Who is the "we" you refer to here?

    You can speak for yourself and only yourself unless you have a chat with disloyal teammates. I will thank you not to imply that you speak for the Princess and all her loyal subjects, my dear sweet Princess. If it please you, m'Lady, of course.

    Now then. Literally all loyal people know something that every other loyal person does not.

    That is the nature of both this setup, and also, every single game of mafia in existence.

    If you care to make a case against Mr. Popo, I will advise you to make sure it is based on Mr. Popo doing or saying something that loyal persons shouldn't do, shouldn't know, or shouldn't be voting for. With reasons as to why.

    Unless, of course, you like for games to end with intelligent and active loyal townspersons dying early and then struggling to find wolves and consensus and votes and activity for the remainder of play, which, the last time I was here, was a major problem town always had.

    I mean, when I voted AV, you did not like my reasons. And I absolutely admit, my reasons are not terribly good. But I don't think you gave ANY reason at all. Well, except the name, but that's a very very weak reason.
    I strongly dislike openly taunting Vecna by saying let's get rid of them day one every game.

    I haven't played with Vecna in many, many years. Regardless of their alignment I refuse to mistreat them this way this game.

    I do believe the vote on Vecna was a hit anyway, and despite my severe reservations with both of you, I think Jeen and yourself voted correctly already.

    Now you're going off on tinfoil adventures and one of you is proposing arguments which can apply to literally every player who ever has an idea at all about how town should act in general.

    I do not believe this is wise or strong villaging, but I can only speak for myself, and what I know about this game from my privileged position of being the Count (absolutely) the Princess (as a metaphor for the fact that we shouldn't be disclaiming being the Princess at all, especially en masse on day one), a loyal townsperson.

    Vecna is currently voting for a townie, on reasons that you give when you're a wolf, and skating through the day.

    I also do not want anyone to get the wise idea that we should waste the day on someone who is not here and also has done zero disloyal things and has not posted and may never claim in time.

  25. - Top - End - #85
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Time for me to read how this game works lol. Throwaway vote on Libro in case I fall off the face of the Earth - that way I'm still voting the least active player.
    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Something about AvatarVecna's banter/joke-vote on Libro rubs me the wrong way, enough to justify an early D1 vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Dear Prince Roland
    I bring you terrible news! The Queen has tried to assassinate the Princess. But - praise the gods - the Princess was not hurt and the Queen was arrested. She is avaiting trial in the royal dungon. However, the danger is not over yet. She still has some allies hidden in the castle. Currently, we are locked in here. I hope, at least my letter will reach you, so you can learn of the events from a trusted source.
    The Princess has gone into hiding, however there is wisper she might reveal herself soon and place herself under the protection of the Countess and her trusted Handmaidens. One of the other guests of the palace, Mr Popo, claims to be the Count. Nobody objected to this till now, and I tend to believe him. Such a lie would be too easy to proove wrong.
    Personaly, I suspect AvatarVecna but I have to admit, I never liked her very much. Some time ago, I even dreamed of killing her with lightning, but she was innocent that night. Strange dream, realy, but I disgress. Pardon, Mylord.
    I also don't like this stranger named BookWombat. A gambler, for sure. Maybe I can use my contacts at the servants to gain some more inforamtion about him tonight.

    Yours truely,
    Ambassador Rogan
    <Snow asking about my vote>
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post

    Well, it's not RNG random. AV

    - is allways a good day 1 target
    - had one vote already

    Currently, there are 4 players I would not vote for.
    [Rogan, Snow, Mr Popo, Xi]
    And I didn't want to start a new wagon without a good reason. (Which I currently don't have). So I picked someone with one vote, who I would not mind getting eliminated. And the thought of AV never living to see day 2 ammuses me
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Popo View Post
    I am willing to arrest Vecna at this time. While certainly formidable as a deity, I believe this planet already has a god of destruction and death.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Of those accusing Vecna, I have a mixed read on Jeen, and if Vecna were to be disloyal I would feel better about Jeen. The big picture looks okay, but picking the wording apart gives me concerns. Rogan is fine for now, but that's not a read. That's a blind guess based on scary genie magic and little more. Reasons for voting Vecna are thin.

    "is allways a good day 1 target
    had one vote already"

    Is not great.

    "And the thought of AV never living to see day 2 amuses me" is particularly poor.

    If Vecna had anything going for them, I would look at both votes for Vecna with a suspicious eye and actually defend Vecna, despite my distaste for the undead. Lo, they are sick icky things and must be cleansed with holy fire.

    Vecna:

    As for who Vecna is accusing, I distrust the accusation of Libro, who I have no special reason to care about other than it is possible they are loyal despite being tardy. Of the things Vecna is doing, none of those read as being loyal.

    Given the relatively short time remaining in the first Day, I would advise Vecna that they may die today unless they reverse opinions and if they are going to claim it should be sooner rather than later.

    If it happens at the last minute, there are a very narrow set of circumstances where I would move my vote.

    Alternatives:

    Not Snowblaze,
    Not Bladescape,
    Not Xihirli at present
    Not BattheCat at present,
    Not anyone who has posted zero times.

    Gac3, perhaps, but an abundance of caution leads me to reserve judgment.


    My notebook is open, you can read it if you wish. I care not.



    So, I don't think there are good reasons to vote for AV. No good reasons not to vote her either. (which is why my vote remains here, for the moment. I want to hear more from AV).
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    So, I don't think there are good reasons to vote for AV. No good reasons not to vote her either. (which is why my vote remains here, for the moment. I want to hear more from AV).
    I feel additional votes here, one or two, would be a powerful motivator.

    If anyone is lost or confused, and wants for day one to not just be mechanics talk and making grand plans to confirm townies are town by arresting townies, Popo and Rogan are currently voting for someone who has a much higher chance of being disloyal than almost anyone else.

  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Popo View Post
    I will answer all your questions as you return the favor. Who is the "we" you refer to here?

    You can speak for yourself and only yourself unless you have a chat with disloyal teammates. I will thank you not to imply that you speak for the Princess and all her loyal subjects, my dear sweet Princess. If it please you, m'Lady, of course.

    Now then. Literally all loyal people know something that every other loyal person does not.

    That is the nature of both this setup, and also, every single game of mafia in existence.

    If you care to make a case against Mr. Popo, I will advise you to make sure it is based on Mr. Popo doing or saying something that loyal persons shouldn't do, shouldn't know, or shouldn't be voting for. With reasons as to why.

    Unless, of course, you like for games to end with intelligent and active loyal townspersons dying early and then struggling to find wolves and consensus and votes and activity for the remainder of play, which, the last time I was here, was a major problem town always had.



    I strongly dislike openly taunting Vecna by saying let's get rid of them day one every game.

    I haven't played with Vecna in many, many years. Regardless of their alignment I refuse to mistreat them this way this game.

    I do believe the vote on Vecna was a hit anyway, and despite my severe reservations with both of you, I think Jeen and yourself voted correctly already.

    Now you're going off on tinfoil adventures and one of you is proposing arguments which can apply to literally every player who ever has an idea at all about how town should act in general.

    I do not believe this is wise or strong villaging, but I can only speak for myself, and what I know about this game from my privileged position of being the Count (absolutely) the Princess (as a metaphor for the fact that we shouldn't be disclaiming being the Princess at all, especially en masse on day one), a loyal townsperson.

    Vecna is currently voting for a townie, on reasons that you give when you're a wolf, and skating through the day.

    I also do not want anyone to get the wise idea that we should waste the day on someone who is not here and also has done zero disloyal things and has not posted and may never claim in time.
    We, as in, everyone in this room.

    I can say for sure that the only persons who could in absolute confidence say that somebody is loyal to the Queen is someone who is loyal to the queen as well. And you seem to be awfully sure about some allignments.

    I know the Princess can't be illoyal to herself, so I can speak, with absolut confidence: The Princess does not know wheter or not AV illoyal. I don't need any secret meetings (which by the rules only happen at night) to know this.

    I see you beeing very sure about something nobody loyal could know. Remember, even while everybody knows some secret nobody else knows (the role) the number of people that know things about OTHER players is very limited at the first day. This makes me suspicous of you and you only give me one reason not to vote for your arrest: You claim to be in leage with the Countess, and we can not afford to loose her.

    If Libro comes back to claim Countess, I will vote you!

    Now, about AV.. Well, if she minds my banter, I would like her to come forward and speak for herself. It remains a fact that I never played in a game with her where she lived at day 2. (Okay, she came back in PJ and was very important for the town victory, but still, she was dead day 2. I made sure about this. And was town as well. So, sorry AV!) It would still be funny for me if this curse would remain true.

    Now, I never played with you, Popo. Never read a game where you played, either. So it might be normal for you to throw around absolut statements without any mechanical backup. If someone else does know you and your playstyle, I would be glad if they could share their experience with me.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Spoiler: In order of how many posts they have
    Show
    Mr Popo- Easily the most loyal, being both of the roles this game that can only be loyal.

    Rogan- Probably voted a disloyal person today for reasons which never come from their disloyal buddy.

    Batcathat- Probably loyal at this point, given a read of everything they've done and why.

    Snowblaze- Easily the second most loyal person today, having hard claimed to be the actual Princess, and proposing a plan which would destroy us all, for absolutely pro-town reasons and thought processes. This is not even sarcasm. This only comes from loyal people.

    JeenLeen- Every post makes me question his loyalty, and I will vote here if this assessment does not change and I also cannot arrest Vecna, who until recently, Jeen was keen to imprison.

    Xihirli- At this point is also obviously quite loyal to the crown, and probably the prettiest of the princesses so far.

    gac3- I would never hit here today unless like 12 other people were off the table, which is a significant improvement over previous mainly due to their acting just like a lost puppy which I imagine most loyal people feel like at the moment. Except Popo.

    bladescape- is a shining example of absolutely loyal villageriness despite being mostly a paperweight so far. Wait until he gets going.

    Book Wombat- Not today thanks.

    Supagoof- Really not today, thanks. Also imagine this is a step down from teal, not quite teal yet.

    Libro- Literally never arrest this person under any circumstances, never rescind.

    AvatarVecna- kill it with cleansing holy fire.

    Everyone who zero posted- those are the breaks. Fortunately a disloyal person already posted and it was so bad we can kill it with cleansing holy fire right now without smacking about loyal people and forcing them to claim on day one when they have done nothing wrong except being slankers.


    So I have 6 people you absolutely never vote for and three strong guesses for townies on top of those, plus a desire not to vote a zero poster, currently Emmy and Rogue.

    I would wager literally all of my teal villagers that at least one of Emmy and Rogue are also loyal to town.

    I refuse to hit any of those names today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Libro comes back to claim Countess, I will vote you!
    You do what you feel is best for town, and so shall I.

    Now, I never played with you, Popo. Never read a game where you played, either. So it might be normal for you to throw around absolut statements without any mechanical backup. If someone else does know you and your playstyle, I would be glad if they could share their experience with me.
    Yeah, Bladescape can describe for how what a walking horror I am to wolf teams, if you must know.

    Or you can sit back and see.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have a message here for the disloyal persons. Top secret, for your eyes only.

    Spoiler: Only disloyal persons may enter here
    Show

  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Popo View Post
    So I have 6 people you absolutely never vote for and three strong guesses for townies on top of those, plus a desire not to vote a zero poster, currently Emmy and Rogue.

    I would wager literally all of my teal villagers that at least one of Emmy and Rogue are also loyal to town.

    I refuse to hit any of those names today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You do what you feel is best for town, and so shall I.

    Yeah, Bladescape can describe for how what a walking horror I am to wolf teams, if you must know.

    Or you can sit back and see.
    Now, to make sure we are on the same page: Are those 6 people you are never going to vote for locked? Or is this only valid for today? Since I think day 1 is a bit early to lock people as town, unless they do something realy spectacular.

    From my side:
    Mr Popo - you are save unless you get counterclaimed.
    Snowblaze - you are save unless your plan results in a spectacular backfire.
    Xi - You are save as long as you write nice letters and there is no realy good reason to vote you.
    Rogan - I don't see my death as an advantage for town. After all, I can prommise you one thing: I won't kill a seer this game!
    BatCatHat - I like those posts for now. Plus, beeing in a similar TimeZone, so we might spend some time being active together.

    I don't have a strong scum read on anybody (well, I don't like some parts of Mr. Popo, but Count claim...). I think, AV is uncharacteristically silent, so I will stay sitting here with my vote. But honestly? If she realy is a traitor, I will feel lucky, not skilled.


    Otherwise, Mr. Popo:
    I think we can agree her. We will both do what we think is best for the Princess. May she live a long and happy live!

    I'm looking forward to hear from blades. But since I think, he is currently voting for you, I wonder if I have to take his words with a grain of salt.




    BatCatHat: Supagoof,
    Mr Popo: Bladescape,
    Supagoof: gac3,
    Libro: AvatarVecna, Xihiril,
    Rogan: Book Wombat,
    BatCatHat: Snowblaze,
    AvatarVecna: Rogan, Mr Popo,
    Snowblaze: JeenLeen,
    JeenLeen: BatCatHat,

    I think, this is the current vote count. But feel free to double check, it can be easy to miss something. Especially if someone voted after I started to write this post...
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


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  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    I am a little fuzzy on the math, but in a 14'er like this, 8 townies may not be sufficient because it is only one more than half, and one of those rounds come endgame is no arrest and wait in the worst possible case scenario.

    So you need an extra villager because of the extremely pro-disloyal even number advantage the traitorous maggots have.

    I have 9 townies instead of 8, which means you can no arrest later in the game if I was extremely wrong.

    As long as all 9 of those names are town we win.

    If someone wants to tell me which if any of those names are not town I am now open to hearing that, as a conversation starter.

    I have proposed a theory. Now, as my peers, you review it, and tell me why it is wrong if it is.

    Being a fair judge here, I probably have gac3 too high and that one is probably the only actual danger of going deep, because I wanted a 9th name and was excited to think of a reason why gac was town.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Now, to make sure we are on the same page: Are those 6 people you are never going to vote for locked? Or is this only valid for today? Since I think day 1 is a bit early to lock people as town, unless they do something realy spectacular.
    This is my methodology and applies to my reads and my role this game.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Everyone else can do as they will, but I intend to convince all of you that the blues are town and not to be touched, and the teals are beyond consideration for the foreseeable future unless I am very wrong.

    You can consider the blue names in the event the POE (process of elimination) list hits townies a lot. Never is a long time and also not applicable when the POE is very wrong.

    Otherwise, you do not rearrange the POE without extremely strong reasons.

    It forces the disloyal people into the uncomfortable position of needing to murder people who are not optimal murders simply because they can't arrest them.

    From my side:
    Mr Popo - you are save unless you get counterclaimed.
    Since I have claimed two roles it seems silly to counterclaim me as I am obviously lying about one or both claims. Besides, I also claimed a role that isn't even in the game.

    No town points for it anymore, but people can tell me why I did that if they want.

    Snowblaze - you are save unless your plan results in a spectacular backfire.
    I strongly encourage everyone not to follow that plan, but you're all autonomous beings.

    Xi - You are save as long as you write nice letters and there is no realy good reason to vote you.
    Generally you need positive reasons why someone is guilty as opposed to a lack of reasons why they are innocent, because I am afraid innocent people are often not particularly good at generating bulletproof reasons why they are town.

    Particularly when they aren't here.

    Rogan - I don't see my death as an advantage for town. After all, I can prommise you one thing: I won't kill a seer this game!
    In addition to being lock town when Vecna is not, you are also independently villagery for your distrust of me in particular and suspicion that I have falsely claimed and that it must be wolfy of me. You remind me of nearly everyone I have ever met who has played with me for the first time.

    BatCatHat - I like those posts for now. Plus, beeing in a similar TimeZone, so we might spend some time being active together.
    BatCatHat is snug as a bug in a rug in my town list. There is just no disloyal agenda about any of their posts.

    I don't have a strong scum read on anybody (well, I don't like some parts of Mr. Popo, but Count claim...). I think, AV is uncharacteristically silent, so I will stay sitting here with my vote. But honestly? If she realy is a traitor, I will feel lucky, not skilled.
    This is a guessing game. It's better to be lucky and accurate than skilled and whiffing it.

    Otherwise, Mr. Popo:
    I think we can agree here,
    Despite an extreme difference in styles, you can be the lawful Rogan to my chaotic Popo.

    You shall be the paladin in shining armor who fights evil the proper way, and I shall be the distrustful sneaky rogue that sneaks up behind evil liches and stabs them with magic daggers.

    While they're busy fighting you properly I will make them regret looking at you at all.


    Meanwhile, if all votes on Libro could vanish, that'd be pretty gosh darned swell.

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