A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    bladescape's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Really? He kinda broadcast his reason, and after I checked, it's pretty legit.
    I feel like I've missed something here.

    From what I can tell, both have 0 posted.

    Mr Popo mentions that "Of the two Emmy is the one that SHOULD have been here by now"

    I'm not sure I follow?

    (It's not impossible I've straight missed something)
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    I feel like I've missed something here.

    From what I can tell, both have 0 posted.

    Mr Popo mentions that "Of the two Emmy is the one that SHOULD have been here by now"

    I'm not sure I follow?

    (It's not impossible I've straight missed something)
    Forum activity.


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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Ahh. Fair.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    1 hour left - if you have any action to send in or last minute changes, now is the time!

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    And that's the end of the Night Phase! No more actions/changes will be accepted. I'll doublecheck the actions and Day will start... eventually.

    - - - Updated - - -

    After Jeen's exit, all rush to the room,
    Of the arrested, for evidence, clue.
    Nothing was found, over all settled gloom.
    Day 1 seemed for nothing, all they'd been through.

    Each went to their room, taking on their role,
    Hoping their talents may aid in the search.
    Setting to their task, they each take a stroll,
    Some looking for proof, or how to besmirch.

    With morning comes breakfast: bread, milk, eggs, crepe.
    But not all showed up for the morning feast.
    Poisoned in his room, you all find bladescape.
    Found with him a man of the cloth, a Priest.

    Time to accuse once more - but this time who?
    To those that yet remain, begin Day 2.

    bladescape and Priest Helenus, Town, were poisoned.




    Day 2 Ends Tuesday, Sept. 14 at 11:30 PM EST /
    Wednesday, Sept. 15 at 4:30 AM Snow's time? /
    Wednesday, Sept. 15 at 5:30 AM CEST
    Last edited by CaoimhinTheCape; 2021-09-13 at 07:57 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Rogan to start because Blade said we should look into Rogan and then Blade died. The rest of my review of day one to come.
    Last edited by gac3; 2021-09-14 at 02:48 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    I'm gonna run to do a blade ISO to see what useful info can be gained, but I'll put a quick vote on Emmy to start out. You're online, let's get some thoughts flowing, yeah?


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  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Spoiler: bladescape ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Welcome Mr Popo I hope you enjoy the stay.
    Typical early randvote.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    WAIT.

    Do I know you Mr Popo.

    I think I do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also wanna say that Snow is just town rn so there's that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If Mr Popo is who I think they are then they don't even get a townread for their opening so far. =P

    I respect you too much my good sir.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Good Sir Goof, I recommend you ignore such heathenous activity of peasantfolk. They know not their position compared to your own incomparable position.

    Let it be known that you are a knight of much renown. I've only joust come to this decision.
    I should probably reevaluate Mr Popo more critically at some point - having a style of play I like doesn't make them towny. But I like effort because the more effort that goes into the game, the more likely scum is to get caught, so tryharding tends to be a pretty pro-town move (even if I know full well it can be a great bluff sometimes, and Mr Popo even acknowledges exactly that).

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    I mean, I'd say that claiming a role that's guaranteed to be town is pretty deserving of a townread, but ymmv.

    ...now how paranoid should I be about the fact you're townreading me?

    I've worked out what I'm doing for my RP and will get to work on putting together a scene. No song ideas yet, though!
    I pulled the Snowblaze quote to see if the full context would better explain the smiley, but I'm still not really able to sus any deeper meaning behind the smiley. It's probably just that Snowblaze is being paranoid and bladescape was amused by that, but I worry I'm missing out on something that made blade suspect Snow (especially when, a few blade posts back, Snow was a town lean). Idk I'm probably just trying to read deeper into it because this ISO is surprisingly sparse of actual analysis to dig into.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Why was AV suspicious again? I'll reread but don't recall a specific case

    - - - Updated - - -

    My next post will have gamestate thoughts but I'll be writing it as a letter rp because that sounds fun
    Calling out Mr Popo on being very gung-ho about killing me for no publicly-stated reason, and promises more thoughts to come.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    JeenLeen

    (RP post delayed due to irl/distraction)
    Oh well, maybe later. The next one is big enough that I'll need to break it into chunks:

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    I won't say anything other than Mr Popo used to play here.

    He's also a good player.

    He's also going a lot harder than I think we're used to around here lmao.

    Migraine abating and I have some free time so I now gotta take gamestate reads and turn them into Medieval prose.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just getting it out before I have to prosify everything:
    Libro is also town.

    Another thing:
    Popo should know that I can probably fake that opener as wolf.

    I suspect his read is more "These other people are probably scum so that puts you towny and you're doing initial reads" but still kinda meh.

    PSA:
    Popo will say "This person is definitely wolf" while he doesn't believe it that seriously. He uses certainty of statement to garner gamestate reads.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I removed the hideous colour.

    Also given I've randed wolf all my games on this site since I returned so far you'd think "weird/different" would be a good thing.

    But then I guess Snow gave me a townread for being different last game and we all know how well that turned out. =P
    Ha! I see what you did there. Don't worry blade, it'll come back around.

    bladescape giving us more information about popo, but I'm not sure if it's quite as useful this time. I could hazard a guess about the reasons why, but a lot of it could make scum consider possibilities I'd rather went unconsidered, so the only one I'll state is that I think the activity level could easily be attributable to having returned to WW on this forum, with a few old familiar faces in the mix even.

    *nodnod*

    Murska does that a lot too. Seems to be a thing the old guard does to newer players who don't have good poker faces yet. Also probably works well on veterans who try to play as honest townies even when lying would be better for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Dearest,

    It pains me to bring such word to your ears, but the Queen and Princess have come to conflict now. I find myself, even now, embroiled in such politics, although I long for the estate on which we shared so many years. But, alas, duty calls and as such I have but to provide council and participation in this playground of paranoia as noble and servant alike narrow their eyes at each other and attempt to root out those who follow the Queen's way.

    Of such, of course, I have but a perspicacious mind. Many acknowledge it, but I find myself ill-inclined to put such strenuous effort upon my own brain when I have other matters to attend to. Still, perhaps informing you of my situation and beliefs will find an ease that not only are my discoveries kept safe, but that you may live vicariously through my words and perhaps experience the daily discussion and investigation yourself.

    Though the paranoia is but tedious.

    Of good news to share, it seems that an old friend has returned. Count Popo, if you recall him from his visit to our estate. He grows weary with life but still musters spryness I envy and an energy and vigour I cannot hope to match with my now aching bones. He has seemed good to be around thus far, but I know his wily words are difficult to distinguish and risk much in considering him perhaps a safe friend. I will of course gladly work with him, but his words are of poison should he harbour affection towards the Queen, and I must analyse each missive from him within such consideration. One thing that perhaps abates my concern is how their viewpoint matches mine at times.

    Of similar virtue, a lovely chamber-maid who bears the name of Snow. She has perhaps been the most enthusiastically ardent in her attempts to defend the Princess, and I cannot help but find sincereness in her pleas. There is little concern I have of her to be one of a more fluid integrity, and I cannot help but thing she is of sound mind and astute observation. I cannot help but attribute her insistent defense of the Princess is a perfect elaboration on how our dear Princess has touched the minds and hearts of the common folk, of which she is a most courageous supporter.

    Alongside her, the Countess Libro is of utmost virtue, if I am to believe the titles. Though I am not one for much pomp and vigour, I do note that of much recent history that title has been one that has aligned itself with the Princess' cause. I find it unlikely that they would bring such valour to her highnesses name while also harbouring ill-will. I refuse to believe such loyalty would be betrayed by venom.

    There is also the matter of the poet and playwright Xi, of which I cannot help but swoon in awe of their creative prowess. Of course, their obvious loyalty to the Princess is of import as well, but perhaps I am too blinded by their words and wit to concern myself with the more trivial or political matters regarding them.

    I have more concerns of the accountancy of Gac. A willful man, he has pleaded forgetfulness in the face of the royal court, and I cannot help but wonder if this were perhaps a ruse. I am of little mind to hang one such as him over such a small violation of social etiquette, but I must keep such concerns alive, and not let such information to die in the drains of our memories.

    But most of my concerns dwell at the feet of Jeen from house Leen. Marquis Leen is of great concern, whose arguments flit between concern that the young servant Snow's plan comes from a place of ardour or a place of devious trickery. I am most concerned that he suggested such a thing as to trial Snow, as if we could not investigate the quality of her plan without knowing her allegiance.

    More-over, their reaction to suspicion in light of their opinions has not roused much sympathy in my heart. I would be fine seeing them and their family hang, for the good of the Princess and those that serve her.

    Forever yours,

    With as much love as the starlight sky dares bequeath upon these mortal eyes,

    Asterion 'Blade' Feneris, of the Moonlit Scape


    - - - Updated - - -



    This is a hilarious post if you know the original context this is referencing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If my experience tells me anything it's that it's not as open/close as it looks right now.

    Guarantee one of Jeen/Gac is red tho.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm tempted to make a case on R_A for memes.

    (Context: As wolf last two games I cased R_A D1 and tried to flip them.)
    what I can glean from this:

    Popo is a townlean, but a risky one in blade's mind, because he's tricky. Nothing new there.

    blade trusted that Snowblaze is genuine, as is Libro.

    blade is lightly townleaning Xihirli based on RP, but isn't sure that's a good basis for a townlean, especially D1.

    blade is concerned about gac and is lightly scumleaning him, but so far it's not really enough evidence to have earned a vote.

    blade was very interested in seeing JeenLeen hang, which occurred and provokes some change in thoughts later in the ISO.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Popo is very good at finding town and as wolf good at hiding his wolf buddies.

    He can and will change those reads on new info. Don't think it's as set in stone as he takes it. He just evaluates the most likely targets for the day and moves in on that.
    *nodnod*

    If he was the kind of person who defends his D1 reads to the end of time, unwilling to consider new evidence, he wouldn't be anywhere near the kind of player you felt the need to warn us about.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    For what it's worth if this flips green I'd want to relook at Rogan
    Rogan did a few shifty things, even if there's people I'm rating lower. With JeenLeen gone, I've got a pressure-vote on Emmy to show up. I'd be fine going for Rogan, but for the moment I'd like to dig into the ISOs that popped up overnight - they've almost certainly got some juicy details in them that'll be fun to analyze, and there's promise of even more to come. And while I'm vaguely comfortable-ish clearing Popo on activity alone for the moment, I don't feel comfortable doing that for more than one person at a time...and gac isn't the "recently returned to our little community" guy, so he gets the cross-examination first. Rogan still definitely in my scum leans atm though.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    To re-eval:
    Rogon

    To keep an eye on:
    Mr Popo

    To protect:
    Libro/Snow

    Basic thoughts from beneath a headache
    The only one that didn't get a mention in that initial "my leans" RP letter is Rogan, who has since attracted attention. Nothing particularly surprising there.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Me pregame: I'm gonna be casual this game.
    Mr Popo: *Exists*
    Me: Well there goes my plans.



    I'm not going to lie, my favourite part of that post was the whole "Bladescape can do everything so far as wolf."

    Because it's true.

    And I was going to call you out on that if you tried to hard-town me because I was already sus of the early "Blade is town" approach you had. Mostly because I know you know I can do this as wolf. And while I'm not AS good as I was before I took my 6 year hiatus (maybe) Mr Popo is always aware of Blade's wolf range, given the number of fun games we've had.

    I want to verify, btw, that this could all come from a wolf Mr Popo. Absolutely keep an eye on him as the game goes.

    BUT that being said I'm leaning towards him being town this game.

    The reason?

    His thoughts on several things have matched mine. Other than how hard he stuck on AV early on when I already flipped onto Jeen for the "Kill Snow to check the plan" post, he's fairly consistently in the same vein of thought as me.

    There is one possible sus part:
    He had Rogan as towny up until I voiced to re-check him.

    It's decently possible if Rogan is w that Mr Popo is possibly wolf too. Not guaranteed. Not "Lock that vote in if one of them flips". Just a possibility. Because Rogan had a good D1 in terms of post quality, but his positioning in thread was weird. That's why I made my "re-assess" post. And immediately after that Mr Popo tumbles the guy down the list. If he's town it's because he actually re-assessed.

    If it's wolf it's because he knows that I know him defending Rogan here would not be in line with the level of thought process I'd expect from him here.


    Either way. I'll try to do gamestate thoughts later but I gotta do work now so I'll be back in like...

    9ish hours?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also unpairing is simple but also complex.

    It's called "Check who each person could be a wolf with."

    Because if there's 3 wolves and one person could only be wolf with one person then no matter how sus they act they're probably town.

    That being said, this is subject to wifom and you have to have good reason to unpair but anyway.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also Mr Popo get some rest.

    But why Emmy? Of the 0 posters?

    Or did Emmy actually post today.
    Bolded the section I feel is relevant. A rogan reevaluation/cross-examination needs to happen - idk if it'd be a smoking gun pointed at Popo, but the change in position just because blade spoke out against Rogan isn't a good look.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    I feel like I've missed something here.

    From what I can tell, both have 0 posted.

    Mr Popo mentions that "Of the two Emmy is the one that SHOULD have been here by now"

    I'm not sure I follow?

    (It's not impossible I've straight missed something)
    Quote Originally Posted by bladescape View Post
    Ahh. Fair.
    This was a quick little exchange explaining how one weird thing blade noted about Popo wasn't actually all that weird.


    Step 1) Dig into gac3's ISOs and see if anything feels like scum trying to look like town.

    Step 2) Re-ISO Rogan, re-evaluate.

    Step 3) ISO Popo properly and see what can be gleaned.


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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Somehow I feel like I know less D2 than I did D1, I felt so confident about Jeen that him flipping town made me question all my reads. I'll probably try to reevaluate everyone from scratch, starting with the people who already have votes.

    Now that AV and Popo are agreeing with each other, I'm getting a little paranoid that they're both wolves, based mostly on how screwed we'd probably be if that was the case. Less of an accusation and more of a "Hey, wouldn't it be horrible if...?".

    Oh, and the day on the "converted" time for EoD is wrong (but the date is right so it doesn't really matter).
    Last edited by Batcathat; 2021-09-13 at 12:27 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    RIP bladescape. It is possible for you to be town after all.

    Hmm. Iíll start by poking Book Wombat.

    I feel like thereís exactly one wolf in Rogan/Batcathat. Re-evaluating both of those is my first task for today.

    Willing to help with unpairings at some point but Iíll be busy IRL this morning so analysis will have to wait.
    Last edited by Snowblaze; 2021-09-14 at 11:08 AM.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    I've cut down the post to just the ISOs to...demonstrate what I'd like to talk about. I'm gonna go through these ISO reactions, underlining things I want to mention.

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Supagoof: 2 posts... One which boils down to "I vote BCH" and one pointing out my tendency to refer to them as sugapoof. Literally nothing to go on. So inactive.

    Libro: 4 posts. Counterclaimed Mr. Popo's. Vote Mr. Popo. Said they wouldn't get anywhere with their analysis without information. Given the fact that the countess is a confirmed town role and they have not been counterclaimed, seems they are likely telling the truth.

    Xi: 9 posts. Votes Libro because its fun to kill libro. Weighed in against the role reveal plan. Some fluff posts. Voting Mr. Popo because of the counter claim. Stated that they see Mr. Popo's plan, removed vote, defended Jeen (in a way that makes sense and I agree with), and expressed a desire to find a new wagon. Voted an inactive. Then didn't catch Jeen actively stating their princess claim was fake and switched a vote to me. So all in all, town lean? Voting me makes sense though a wolf could easily do that too. The defense of Jeen was fair and looks even better after the flip. Supports pushing more discussion. Overall I got town read here.

    Bladescape: 10 posts. Voted Mr. Popo for opening post. Two posts which contributed nothing. Questioned why AV was suspicious and promised more thoughts to come. Voted Jeen, did not include reasons. Non contribution post mainly focused on saying "Mr. Popo is a good player but plays hard." Finally got some fluff filled reads. Note to self: Finish reading the long Bladescape fluff post filled with their reads. They also stated that its not normally open/close and then stated that I am either red or Jeen is. Not sure what makes them confident that that is the case. Defending Popo's style. Then two posts stating we should look at Rogan if Jeen flips green... Well Jeen flipped blue so, I assume that still applies. Will come back to Blade. Need to read the long fluff post before I give a verdict on if I think they are town or wolf or what. Overall, their other posts are not overly helpful for analysis.

    JeenLeen: 11 posts. Lock town.

    Book Wombat: 11 posts. RNG Rogan vote. Presented the possibility that the Princess or Countess is not in use. Pretty sure this is narrator confirmed to not be the case? Suggests the countess should sacrifice their self for the princess after the reveal. Agreed but also, the reveal isn't necessary for that. OMGUS on Mr. Popo. Stated their vote was not actually OMGUS. Noncontributing post. "I didn't know Mr. Popo called me out. I wouldn't have voted them had I known." "I might be lying to appear town." Weighed in about their random vote. Vote count list. Overall has contributed nothing yet has posted a good bit. This would be more suspicious but... this is pretty much bar for the course for Book. However they seem very nonchalant about their "hey, maybe I am a wolf" which does stand out as something I don't remember them doing before. So maybe a wolf who is trying a balls out "hey guys, I'm wolfy" strategy or just Book not caring how their posts look. I respect either but am unsure which it is.

    Gac3: 11 posts. Voted Sugapoof for a dumb reason. A noncontributing post. Posted that they "forgot the game had started" despite having posted twice. Defensive post about their forgetting, pulling the classic "if I was a wolf, why would I lie about this." Called out Mr. Popo who had called them out. Continued harassing Mr. Popo. Continued to contribute nothing except arguing with Mr. Popo about their claims. Voted an inactive. Three noncontributing posts making excuses and promising future posts that would contribute. Another post focused on Mr. Popo and next to nothing else. So far has not contributed anything useful and only seems to be concerned with defending themselves, not helping town. Not a good look and not quite their normal style. Definitely suspicious. But also they have claimed privately so that's a point in their favor, assuming I can believe them.
    What a fun read! Oh, what's the underlining about? That's the analysis. That's it. Most of this post? It's not analysis of the ISOs, it's summaries of the ISOs. Analysis is "here's what happened, and here's what I think about it". Most of what's happened, we don't even really get a "I'm not sure if this really says anything about the gamestate", it just gets stated and he moves on to describing the next post.

    Here's the analysis isolated for our viewing pleasure:

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Supagoof: ...
    Literally no analysis, but at least understandable since Supagoof doesn't seem to be participating.

    Libro: Counterclaimed Mr. Popo's. [...] Given the fact that the countess is a confirmed town role and they have not been counterclaimed, seems they are likely telling the truth.
    "The locktown role hasn't been counterclaimed, so they're probably town." Wow hot take there.

    Xi: Voting me makes sense though a wolf could easily do that too. The defense of Jeen was fair and looks even better after the flip. [...] Overall I got town read here.
    "Voting me makes sense but it's not alignment indicative" so this is technically analysis but it's not actually saying anything.

    Bladescape: They also stated that its not normally open/close and then stated that I am either red or Jeen is. Not sure what makes them confident that that is the case. [...] Then two posts stating we should look at Rogan if Jeen flips green... Well Jeen flipped blue so, I assume that still applies. Will come back to Blade. Need to read the long fluff post before I give a verdict on if I think they are town or wolf or what.
    Calls out an apparent inconsistency between blade's words and actions, and yet doesn't really scumread them for it. Sees that Bladescape said "if jeen good, check rogan" and wants to check Rogan, even though the only actual analysis he has on blade is leaning scum. Ultimately doesn't weigh in on blade's alignment, saying he'll come back to it later. Now hear me out on this theory:

    If scum was doing something like...ISOing half the players in the middle of the night phase, and they know that a particular person is going to die, they're not going to scumread that player. They know the dead player will flip townie, and they don't wanna be scumreading somebody who's about to be confirmed town because it makes people trust the rest of their reads less. They don't want to provoke an argument with dangerous townies by disagreeing with them on reads too much, but they don't wanna look like they're pocketing them either, so the safest place is a middle ground of:

    "I'm not sure how to feel about that person I guess I'll look later OH NO THEYRE DEAD AND IT TURNED OUT THEYRE TOWN well let's at least honor the dead townie's wishes"

    gac3's analysis of bladescape honestly reads to me like "the only thing I've got a serious opinion on here is that blade was being inconsistent, but Popo and AV are both townreading blade and I don't want them jumping down my throat, and I don't want the others not trusting my reads, so I'll play it safe for the moment". It's very wishy-washy and doesn't even really have a reason to be.

    JeenLeen: ...
    No analysis, but that can't be held against gac because it was after JeenLeen flipped. At best the ISO can be used to get an idea of what opinion statements JeenLeen made that can be trusted to be genuine, so that those statements can help town figure out what to do going forward.

    Book Wombat: Presented the possibility that the Princess or Countess is not in use. Pretty sure this is narrator confirmed to not be the case? Suggests the countess should sacrifice their self for the princess after the reveal. Agreed but also, the reveal isn't necessary for that. [...] "I didn't know Mr. Popo called me out. I wouldn't have voted them had I known." "I might be lying to appear town." [...] This would be more suspicious but... this is pretty much bar for the course for Book. However they seem very nonchalant about their "hey, maybe I am a wolf" which does stand out as something I don't remember them doing before. So maybe a wolf who is trying a balls out "hey guys, I'm wolfy" strategy or just Book not caring how their posts look. I respect either but am unsure which it is.
    "That would be more suspicious, but Book usually does this, so I guess townlean. Except the Too Wolfy To Be Wolf stuff, so maybe they're wolfy after all."

    Wish-wash-wish-wash

    Gac3: So far has not contributed anything useful and only seems to be concerned with defending themselves, not helping town. Not a good look and not quite their normal style. Definitely suspicious. But also they have claimed privately so that's a point in their favor, assuming I can believe them.
    NAI. Despite what I've seen some players say, I've yet to witness any evidence that suggests townies or mafia are more likely to joke around like this. I know I personally do something like this basically every game - voting myself, putting myself at the bottom of my own scumreads list, ISOing myself and scumreading everything as a joke. It's funny, and it's a thing I do regardless of alignment, and I've not really noticed patterns of people joking around only when they're town, or only when they're scum. I've seen people say "scum takes the game less seriously" and I've seen people say "scum isn't gonna throw away the rare opportunity to be scum", but I don't really buy into either of those.

    FoS on gac3 for all this Information Without Analysis (and as night-talking to bait people into night-debates, too). Slight FoS on Mr for somehow clearing gac based on all this nothingness.
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-09-13 at 01:14 AM.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: AvatarVecna's Afterlife 2

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    Aspiring optimizers can try their luck in Zinc Saucier XXXIX: Hoist The Colors High

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    It's always AvatarVecna time.

  12. - Top - End - #192
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Rogan to start because Blade said we should look into Rogan and then Blade died. The rest of my review of day one to come.
    I'd appreciate if you would actually do a review on me instead of voting on me in grounds of "The person who wanted a review got attacked"

    But I am going to assume you plan to include that into your next post.
    Personally, I won't be able to write much today, but intend to do so tomorrow. I have to work today, which costs time and energy. Right now I am on my way to work and will use the time in the train for this post from mobile.
    Spoiler: Tangent
    Show

    I can guarantee you I will never lie about my RL in order to further my position in this game. It's something deeply unsportsmanlike. My impression is that there is a lady's and gentleman agreement to not lie about your RL, so I will always trust you if you say you are busy and won't judge a lack of activity harshly. But it's not a get out of jail for free card either.



    While there was no full review for myself, someone mentioned he (or she?) Thought I would change my stances too often. This feels like an unfair judgment.
    Spoiler: Explanation. Better read this after you looked at my day 1 again?
    Show

    I changed my stance on one player, namely Mr Popo. But this changes always were the result of new info.
    At first, he claimed a unique, unchanging Town only role. I won't vote there.
    His behavior is alien for me. He rings multiple alarm bells for me. There is a soft counter claim. Still, nothing definite, so he stays in the group of people I am not going to lynch.
    Next thing a counter claim. Popo lost the reason I believe him to be town. That's the last drop in an ocean of red flags. I vote him.

    Next thing is an explanation. It's multiple experienced players agreeing about the explanation. It's not an explanation I like, but I can see it as a possibility and I don't want to tunnel on a villager again. So I unvote and reconsider.


    Spoiler: About Jeen
    Show

    He was a good target. He even said so himself. He could not give me a good explanation for his bad plan. It was / is a bad Plan! It won't get better since it was proposed by a villager.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Spoiler: More RL stuff
    Show

    ****! I hate being invested in this game soo much. I missed my station (again) while being busy with the game.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions


    More Mafia

  13. - Top - End - #193
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Batcathat

    - randomly voting me.

    - joking about killing AV.

    - townreading Xihirli. I like this, itís some good in-depth analysis. The paranoia at the end could be seen as hedging but BCH is paranoid in general so I donít think itís wolfy here.

    - fluff.

    - time zone stuff.

    - paranoia about me. I feel like thatís the sort of thing wolves would want to encourage... but, like I said earlier, Batcathat is paranoid in general. (I think theyíre more likely to be paranoid as town - though Iíve never actually played with town!BCH before.)

    - mechanics speculation. (Side-note: that quoted BW post is pinging me a lot.)

    - more mechanics.

    - yet more mechanics. Although Iíd like to note that itís mostly in response to other peopleís mechanics talk, offering clarification/reactions. Which is fine.

    - first to vote Jeen; obviously that doesnít earn as much towncred given the flip but I still think itís mildly towny as it was a valid point and one I agreed with.

    - reads list; nothing particularly controversial but thereís enough there to stop me invoking ďreads list without many readsĒ.

    - post 140 was my major point of suspicion. Mostly because of the suggestion of alternate wagons but lack of an attempt to actually create one.

    - lots of agreeing with me. Which is fine. Probably not trying to pocket me. They didnít respond to my asking them to start an alternate wagon.

    - starting day two with more paranoia.


    I actually feel pretty good about BCH coming out of this. Theyíre a townread, especially if skimming through recent games indicates Iím right about the paranoia.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Based on recent posts, Rogan/gac3 not w/w. One unpairing done!
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  14. - Top - End - #194
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Mr Popo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    I have baby in arm

    typing with mouse + onscreen keyboard

    i began game as priest

    n1 i was changed to king

    i have a night chat with someone villagery, they can confirm

    but no need

    keep princess hidden and safe

    countess keeps her safe when outed

    secrecy keeps her safe when countess dies

    sit back, remain calm

    analyse day one + n1

    i believe in you

    - - - Updated - - -

    my target n1 was supagoof

    action doesnt resolve because i was forcibly kinged

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CaoimhinTheCape View Post
    bladescape and Priest Helenus, Town, were poisoned.
    game only has 2 priests max

    blades priest at game start
    popo priest at game start
    i claimed d1


    there will be no counterclaims

  15. - Top - End - #195
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Batcathat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    I actually feel pretty good about BCH coming out of this. Theyíre a townread, especially if skimming through recent games indicates Iím right about the paranoia.
    Wow, I never realized how paranoid I come off but it's probably true. It'll likely only get worse going forward, I don't think I've ever been as confident in a wolf read as I was about Jeen and that certainly bit me in the behind.

  16. - Top - End - #196
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Mr Popo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I'd appreciate if you would actually do a review on me instead of voting on me in grounds of "The person who wanted a review got attacked"
    i'd add this to the above as an aside

    Spoiler: popo's coaching
    Show
    i dont want to police when people vote esp when some may never log back in some days

    but it is good practice to read your suspect and try to see how they can be a villager
    before deciding your vote is 'to kill' rather than to to nominate or placeholder or indicate suspicion

    be good jurors

    look for possible defence

    be careful who you stab with your sword to draw blood

    vote for placehold or indicate suspicion fine

    avoid final judgment until you have tried 2 see it both ways

    can your suspect still be a townie?

    we get it right today and town wins a lot

    if you already did the work, present your case

    entire town is the jury

    you prosecute they decide

    if you find a townie come forth

    present your case

    be defense lawyer

    entire town is the jury

    you town case your townie

    they decide if your case is valid enough to risk game on

    1 mafia everyone town reads wins game for scums so that route is very risky

    but you can force wolves to bus when you were right enough on several townies

    and they cant even get town read for bussing because it was forced onto them

    even a partial solve of townies all correct forces very suboptimal lynch votes onto mafias

    and forces suboptimal murders they have to try or they just lose

    but there needs to be ZERO mafia in your town pile or you lose

    its risky

    be careful

    accuse mafia correctly is direct pressure
    defend town correctly is indirect pressure

    sufficient amounts of both BREAK the mafia team's back

    be accurate now


    quality >>>>>> quantity / rushing judgment

    still i believe in this town

    you have got this! Youre all awesome

    thank u for hearing me out

    be excellent jurors
    that is town's top responsibility

    hugs to all from papa popo and daughter

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Wow, I never realized how paranoid I come off but it's probably true. It'll likely only get worse going forward, I don't think I've ever been as confident in a wolf read as I was about Jeen and that certainly bit me in the behind.
    i thought it was a hit until it was basically 2 late and it was still better than me hitting gac who was counterwagon, because jeen never princess

    gac townread overnight and can be princess

    and other wagon was me

    if i tipped i wouldnt have been able to reassess gac3 and id cost town ANOTHER wrong suspect in death

    he is clean 4 sure imo

    - - - Updated - - -

    emmy necromancer

    be very solvy villager today or this vote is to kill

    blow me away, be top tier solving

    find townies say why
    find wolves say why

    be the towniest you youve ever been
    so my vote moves to a wolf and you helped make it happen

    its never too late to solve for town and win even if top suspect

  17. - Top - End - #197
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Avatar Vecna: 13 posts. Throwaway vote. Addresses weirdness people said, focuses a lot on inactives. Responded to my "I forgot the game" and focused on the game related part to put suspicion on me instead of the utterly unrelated forgetting. Still suspected me but for better reasons than that I had already posted. Gave reasonable reads. Really lots of pointing out peoples mistakes and weirdness and generally contributing. I'm not going to finish going point by point. They are fairly town seeming. The one exception is that I cannot remember Wolf AV acting much differently. So blue but not as deep as others. Even since I started this did a better job analyzing my post than Mr. Popo did. So more points in their favor.

    Snowblaze
    :(Using orange to distinguish from vote) 14 posts. Snow starts with a big swing, asking the only two definitely town roles to claim. They are not the only ones to mention "what if the roles aren't in the game" but didn't Cape specify exactly what roles were and weren't going to be left off? Am I imagining this. This "claim" plan is the type of thing that usually is perceived as not looking good on town but its usually more "bad town move" than "wolf move". Though they do actually spend their first several posts going "mechanics mechanics mechanics", "oh yeah. I can get behind not talking about mechanics." "mechanics mechanics mechanics". "Rogan's treatment of me is wolfy... Mechanics mechanics..." Honestly, I know it's day one, but Snow normally seems... better than this? Don't they normally push people for reads? Give detailed reasons for their own? They aren't. They are all not talking about other people or getting defensive or giving a single sentence that amounts to "I townread Popo." It feels very not snowblaze.

    Batcathat 16 posts. Took a few posts but then they offered some real insight into Xi. Then some noncommittal paranoia about Snow. Some mechanics questions/comments. Called out Jeen for some questionable logic centered around "lynch them to see if their plan is a wolf ploy". Gave a read list. Really started picking up on weighing in there at the end. Overall nothing that reads too wolfy and plenty of reasons to suspect townieness but their contribution/post ratio is a bit lower than I expected. Not my top town read but I feel okay about them.

    Rogan: 28 posts:..... I still need to do but am getting too tired. Will do tomorrow.

    Mr. Popo: 33 posts when I started this. Let's get this straight, I'm not going to go post by post and say what they have done. They have started conversation and pushed us. While it might take some getting used to for me to adapt to their style, it is so refreshing and gets conversation going. I've not seen them as wolf but without a good reason to lynch they should be kept around for a little whether town or wolf. Just don't take anything they say as gospel truth or anything.. Though I think they gave me far too much credit for my first batch of posts. I'm not all that good at the analysis.

    These got longer so i decided to skip the full summary plan I used with the light posters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oddly enough I like AC's reaction to my reads or whatever better than Popos

  18. - Top - End - #198
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Spoiler: Rogan ISO
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    The idea is not bad, but it also brings some risks. You pointed some of them out (and I would be interested in your math for the Handmaidens, but this can wait until after the game) and gave your assessment about them. So, I will claim that I have no role involved and no major objections to your analysis. Minor negative points for the "Trust me" part of your argument. But it's propably too obvious for a wolf. I reserve the right to reasses my stance toward you if the princess or countesse gets ambushed tonight.
    This looks worse in hindsight than it actually is. "The idea is not bad" is almost certainly untrue for a variety of reasons...that got thoroughly discussed after this post was made. Rogan isn't looking at all the criticisms that were made and going "I think its a good plan with risks". This is also before a lot of the discussion about how we really shouldn't be giving hints at who is or isn't princess. However, I think that "don't make it easier for scum to find the princess" would be a straightforward thing people knew to start out, and didn't have to be told, so saying "I'm not the princess" is still a bad move here, even though it hadn't been made explicit in-thread why doing so is a bad idea.

    Everything from "minor negative points" onward feels like a good take - a little reserved but not willing to jump to ridiculous conclusions on flimsy evidence. This is a good early D1 take.

    Again, mixed feelings, Snow. On the one hand, you are opposed to a mass claim. On the other hand... I don't like this!
    But I like Snows songs as well, so another reason to avoid going after her.
    Snow: "Am I doing a wolfy thing like cackling lol oh well"

    Rogan: "Yeah I don't like that"

    That's a good take.

    Rogan: "I like the songs so slight townie points"

    ...that's not how leans work. RP tends to be pleasant, but it's also NAI.

    I think you are correct about the first part (King, Prince).
    You are however wrong about the second part (Baron). Snow even pointed this out in her plan. The baron can't connect anybody to this core. The princess can't be targeted after claiming. The Countess will be blocked by the handmaidens. They protect against the kill, but also prevent most other powers.
    I called snowblaze out for this "mistake" but not Rogan - likely cuz it was in a spoiler so I just missed it. In any case, it's since been pointed out to me that I was actually in the wrong and that an outed princess can't be Baron'd, so this isn't Rogan shooting down an upside to a mostly-bad plan like I accused snowblaze of doing. NAI.

    If the wolves get the countess night 1, will you change your oppinion about Snow?
    If the wolves had gotten the countess N1 (which they didn't), and JeenLeen were capable of clarifying his position (which he isn't), I imagine he'd feel similar to me. Which is to say that "The Handmaid failing to protected the outed Countess isn't the fault of the person who suggested the plan". If this had happened (which it didn't, even a little bit), it would not be Snowblaze's fault that the Handmaids were either not in play, inactive, or scum. Not unless Snowblaze was the townie-Handmaid who failed to protect the countess.

    Hard agree here. Xi is on my List of persons I don't want to remove from the game.
    Xi is fun to have in the game. I personally think Xi is also good to have in the game. But those two facts are not correlated - Xihirli isn't a townlean because she's fun to have around. That's not how leans work, and townleaning people who are pleasant to play with is setting yourself up to get pocketed.

    Dear Prince Roland
    I bring you terrible news! The Queen has tried to assassinate the Princess. But - praise the gods - the Princess was not hurt and the Queen was arrested. She is avaiting trial in the royal dungon. However, the danger is not over yet. She still has some allies hidden in the castle. Currently, we are locked in here. I hope, at least my letter will reach you, so you can learn of the events from a trusted source.
    The Princess has gone into hiding, however there is wisper she might reveal herself soon and place herself under the protection of the Countess and her trusted Handmaidens. One of the other guests of the palace, Mr Popo, claims to be the Count. Nobody objected to this till now, and I tend to believe him. Such a lie would be too easy to proove wrong.
    Personaly, I suspect AvatarVecna but I have to admit, I never liked her very much. Some time ago, I even dreamed of killing her with lightning, but she was innocent that night. Strange dream, realy, but I disgress. Pardon, Mylord.
    I also don't like this stranger named BookWombat. A gambler, for sure. Maybe I can use my contacts at the servants to gain some more inforamtion about him tonight.

    Yours truely,
    Ambassador Rogan
    Roleplay and a randvote that officially wagons me. There's no analysis hiding in the RP, at least AFAICT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Your math is fine, which I realized some minutes after I made the post. At first, I had tried to take all roles into account, which made the calculation a bit more complex. Sometimes, you miss the forest since you see so many trees.

    Well, it's not RNG random. AV

    - is allways a good day 1 target
    - had one vote already

    Currently, there are 4 players I would not vote for.
    [Rogan, Snow, Mr Popo, Xi]
    And I didn't want to start a new wagon without a good reason. (Which I currently don't have). So I picked someone with one vote, who I would not mind getting eliminated. And the thought of AV never living to see day 2 ammuses me
    1 vote isn't a wagon, especially this early D1. Randvotes are expected to be kinda scattered around by default - it's when they start stacking up that you generally need reasons. You weren't the first person to vote me, but you were the one that made me a wagon.

    I want to hear from Rogan why that list of four is people he wouldn't vote at this point in time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Of course the reasons are thin. It's day 1 and, at the time of my vote, page 1. There simply is not much to go by, so I can take an option which I amuses me. It's not like I can't change my vote again, if someone pops up who is more suspicous.
    And, as you made sure to point out, there is no reason NOT to vote for AV at the moment.

    About the time remaining... Am I getting confused by timezones again? Unless I am mistaken, the day ends on Sunday, 5AM for my timezone. So 1 day 9 hours and 45 minutes from now. Thats not what I would call a short time.
    "What does it matter that I started a wagon for basically no real reason?"

    That's not exactly a strong defense, buddy. And yes, I would be saying this even if I wasn't the wagon in question. It's not a good look to start a wagon just cuz.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Is this a counterclaim?



    Or just this joke?
    NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Thanks for the answer. And while I obviously CAN do the conversion myself, I certainly would not mind if you would include the CEST. Especialy if someone else would profit from this as well.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Okay, I want to include BatCatHat in my List of persons I don't want to remove from the game. Having someone with similar timezones can be useful.
    Now we're clearing people based on time zone similarities? I know I maybe shouldn't be harping on this so much because it's day 1, but this is the fifth person on Rogan's list of "people I won't consider voting today", and four of them are for reasons not really related to the game state at all. The only one that is is...he won't vote himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I am slightly paranoid regarding you since I remember your performance in PJ. You are increadibly good at avoiding the lynch, even if you deserve it. And in our second game together, you managed to survive a day where you were known to be the serial killer. (To be fair, your contender for the lynch was a baddy as well, so this should not count).

    So I could see a world where you are a wolf, suggest a plan you know will fail, telegraph this possibilty AND get away with it. Those are things I propably won't have to worry about, I know. But I still have them in my mind and you might remember something about me: I still have to learn when to shut up!

    All in all, I think you are more likely to be town than wolf. But I respect your skills enough to think you could fake this. And I would like to know if I am the only one who thinks that way.
    I like this post, it's similar to blade talking about popo. We've got a couple players here who haven't played with Snowblaze before, and making sure they know she's got a hell of a silver tongue is a pro-town move. It's not even scumreading her, it's just acknowledging the possibility as a result of Snow's own skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Snow had this in mind.
    The roles are not out of the game forever, so sooner or later, the bluff will be called and the wolves loose one teammember.
    Mech clarification, NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I would even say, it propably is not possible to claim Princess without using the power. Otherwise, it would be a tad bit unfair. Claiming Princess has a cost attached, not being a valid target for the Baron or the Handmaiden.
    Another post that look worse because of hindsight. Cao hadn't yet clarified that princess can hard claim without hardclaiming (and Cao do not reply to that bold "hardclaiming" as if I were claiming princess, I'm not doing a claim so it doesn't need to be confirmed or denied). Anyway, while I appreciate Rogan being concerned about outing a townie for no reason, I don't think the concern about fakeclaiming is warranted - Princess is the one role in the game where a counterclaim can be proven correct without the need for the one of the claimants to die first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I have to admit, the rules don't strictly support my idea. But I stand by the point: Being able to claim Princess (without the mechanical benefit of being unvotable, but come on... who would vote for an uncontested Princess claim, unless the person was very suspicious before and it seems like an last second try to get a second chance) without taking the drawback feels like cheating to me.
    Of course, there is a blury line somewhere. What counts as a soft-claiming, what is hard claiming? But in my mind, someone stating 'I am the Princess' without using bold should still count as using the ability.
    But this is my personal oppinion. I would be glad about a clarification from Cao.
    I'm sorry if I said something contradicting the actual rules.
    This feels pretty genuine to me. Rogan seems legitimately frustrated with the idea of somebody essentially benefitting from the princess' power without actually having it, and how the only way for the real princess to call them out would be to counterclaim (probably a bolded hardclaim), thus ruining the princess' ability to be networked with, or to vote on things going forward. It would suck for town if that happened. Luckily, as the princess, following in the footsteps of Princess Popo, I've made it illegal for anybody to pretend that they're not also the princess, which resolves this problem handily. Now, nobody gets the protection of the princess role unless they're doing a bolded hardclaim with Cao confirming. Still, this is solid townie points for Rogan IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. I might not like the rules as written, but I don't blame you.

    However, I will blame anybody using the option of claiming without bolding. If you want to have the protection of beeing a princess, you should pay the prize as well.



    Hello Gac, nice to see you.

    Yes, Mr. Popo claimed Count. And I think his claim still stands, but he doesn't want the princess to revial herself. Or anybody claiming not Princess, which would reduce the number of people who could be the Princess.
    On the other hand, it is very much possible for nobody to be the Princess yet.
    I'm actually not certain it is. OP seemed to imply that Princess/Countess are always in the game, and it would be strange if a Princess in the discard pile could get "roleswitched" by the Prince onto a player who actually has a role, but couldn't be roleswitched by the Prince after that because the Princess is immune to the Prince's power? That doesn't make sense to me. Granted, none of this is explicit, so I can understand confusion surrounding it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    You are THAT close to earning a vote from me. But I will let you off since you seem to be joking and I have you on my don't kill day 1 list.
    More of the same genuineness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I agree with this interpretation. The princess can vote, but can't be voted. Well, technicaly she can be voted, but those would not count.
    Mech clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Okay, now I have to ask... You push for an AV lynch quite hard for... No good reason at all? Or do you know something we don't?
    I mean, when I voted AV, you did not like my reasons. And I absolutely admit, my reasons are not terribly good. But I don't think you gave ANY reason at all. Well, except the name, but that's a very very weak reason.

    If you didn't claim to be married to our beloved Countess, I would vote for you now.
    You started wanting a mass claim, quickly changed your mind on this and now work against Snows Plan.
    This plan is basically forced to happen now. We can not afford to loose the Countess, otherwise the Princess can not Claim or she is basically guaranteed to die the next night. With the Countess in the open, the Princess has nothing to loose by claiming, unless she believes the plan will fail. But for the Plan to fail, we would need to be either increadible unlucky, or there is a traitor ammong Snow and you, Mr. Popo.
    A willingness to push back on Popo is something I can respect, but I'm not sure how to feel about it. Up until now, Rogan has basically been voting me in an attempt to get me to speak up more and participate, which is good. But now he's laying into the other guy on my wagon for having no stated reason and yet being very thirsty for my blood...why? It's a good question for somebody to ask, and more than a few people asked it, but Rogan seems like the wrong person to be asking. It comes across like rogan thinks he looks like he's pocketing Popo, so he wants to create some artificial friction there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show






    <Snow asking about my vote>





    So, I don't think there are good reasons to vote for AV. No good reasons not to vote her either. (which is why my vote remains here, for the moment. I want to hear more from AV).
    Voting me for inactivity is valid, but it's also easy for anybody to do, so NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    We, as in, everyone in this room.

    I can say for sure that the only persons who could in absolute confidence say that somebody is loyal to the Queen is someone who is loyal to the queen as well. And you seem to be awfully sure about some allignments.

    I know the Princess can't be illoyal to herself, so I can speak, with absolut confidence: The Princess does not know wheter or not AV illoyal. I don't need any secret meetings (which by the rules only happen at night) to know this.

    I see you beeing very sure about something nobody loyal could know. Remember, even while everybody knows some secret nobody else knows (the role) the number of people that know things about OTHER players is very limited at the first day. This makes me suspicous of you and you only give me one reason not to vote for your arrest: You claim to be in leage with the Countess, and we can not afford to loose her.

    If Libro comes back to claim Countess, I will vote you!

    Now, about AV.. Well, if she minds my banter, I would like her to come forward and speak for herself. It remains a fact that I never played in a game with her where she lived at day 2. (Okay, she came back in PJ and was very important for the town victory, but still, she was dead day 2. I made sure about this. And was town as well. So, sorry AV!) It would still be funny for me if this curse would remain true.

    Now, I never played with you, Popo. Never read a game where you played, either. So it might be normal for you to throw around absolut statements without any mechanical backup. If someone else does know you and your playstyle, I would be glad if they could share their experience with me.
    This is a pretty solid argument for not trusting Popo on principle D1. That absolute approach to leans and votes putting people off...that's definitely understandable. But at the same time, it's also a point a wolf could make without risking much of anything. "You seem too sure of yourself" is NAI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Now, to make sure we are on the same page: Are those 6 people you are never going to vote for locked? Or is this only valid for today? Since I think day 1 is a bit early to lock people as town, unless they do something realy spectacular.

    From my side:
    Mr Popo - you are save unless you get counterclaimed.
    Snowblaze - you are save unless your plan results in a spectacular backfire.
    Xi - You are save as long as you write nice letters and there is no realy good reason to vote you.
    Rogan - I don't see my death as an advantage for town. After all, I can prommise you one thing: I won't kill a seer this game!
    BatCatHat - I like those posts for now. Plus, beeing in a similar TimeZone, so we might spend some time being active together.

    I don't have a strong scum read on anybody (well, I don't like some parts of Mr. Popo, but Count claim...). I think, AV is uncharacteristically silent, so I will stay sitting here with my vote. But honestly? If she realy is a traitor, I will feel lucky, not skilled.


    Otherwise, Mr. Popo:
    I think we can agree her. We will both do what we think is best for the Princess. May she live a long and happy live!

    I'm looking forward to hear from blades. But since I think, he is currently voting for you, I wonder if I have to take his words with a grain of salt.
    This is that clarification of why people were in Rogan's "not getting voted today" list I asked for earlier. Nothing here really strikes me as AI though (beyond the "clearing people on silly reasons" thing I already whined about, of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I am not sure about the math either. Worst case (misslynch and nightkill each day) would be:
    14 Players, 11 good, 3 bad. D1
    12 Players, 9 good, 3 bad. D2
    10 Players, 7 good, 3 bad. D3
    8 Players, 5 good, 3 bad. D4

    6 Players, 3 good, 3 bad. D5 (Depending on the roles, this might be game over)

    Now, this worst case is very, very unlikely to happen. There is a chance of handmaiden saves. And of course, getting no Wolf at all does not seem to be that likely either.

    For most of us, there are 12 players to worry about. (No need to worry about the Princess, as soon as she claims; no need to worry about yourself)
    4 missed lynches could be game over. So 12-3 means 9 persons you need to correctly identify as town.
    This seems to assume we've got a three-wolf game. It might be true, given the lack of a proper seer, and the number of people who can screw around with roles, but the math balances against town if there's four or five wolves instead (which I think Popo already pointed out in response to this post?).


    So, I think we are on the same page here. But I am a bit sceptical about one thing:
    You need to be right about those 9 Persons. If there is only one traitor and you are not willing to reevaluate? You have lost before the game is over. Thats a bit scary, in my oppinion.
    Therefore, I would like to avoid locking somebody as town this early. But as long as you are willing to change your mind when new evidence arrives, I'm fine with your current list.

    About your Role and Snows Plan... I might have an idea what you mean, but I might be wrong. And I will try to keep my mouth shut about this idea, unless someone else would realy like to talk about it.

    And I totaly agree, it's much better to be right for the wrong reasons, than to be wrong for whatever the reasons may be. But the best thing seems to be getting the right answer for the right reasons.

    But yeah, despite those differences in style, I am looking forward to solving this mystery on your side.

    But now, I think I will have to go to bed. 1:45AM... Good day / night / whatever the time of the day it might be where you live. This is for everybody. Except the traitors. They won't have a good night, now that their leader, the evil queen was arrested.
    It's good that Rogan can appreciate the value of not giving scum more information just to win the public argument. That's a bit of townlean, even if I'm generally not a fan of "intentionally not discussing things" as a playstyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Well, my idea would be: Mr Popo didn't know if the countess was an active role or not.
    In order to still allow a somewhat strong town core, he faked the claim. This way, he would get a position of trust and protection.
    But this would be extremely dangerous if the princess revealed herself, thinking herself protected. So, why would Mr Popo do something like that? Well, he might be the only town person to know the princess wouldn't reveal herself.

    I guess, Mr Popo is the princess. Many other things would make sense as well.

    But I don't trust words at this point, unless those words are spoken by the narrator.
    So.... Mr Popo are you the princess? Please bold your answer, for narrator confirmation.
    Most of this comes from a well-meaning place, I think. Standard procedure in games: if you get a claim, and then a counterclaim, you test the first claimant with a lynch. The exception is made because bold-hardclaiming princess would be a potential out for Popo here, and (at least the way Rogan thinks about the princess claim) Popo has already legitimately claimed princess. Sure, the princess should only bold-hardclaim when they're on the chopping block, but Popo is now counterclaimed by a locktown role - it's frankly a miracle he didn't die yesterday.

    ...all that being said, it's also incorrect for one reason and I'm not sure if it's an honest mistake or scum trying to pretend this is how the game works:

    Well, my idea would be: Mr Popo didn't know if the countess was an active role or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    The Mafia will always be aware of what role is not in the game.
    If Mr Popo is Mafia, and knew Countess wasn't in the game, that would mean that Libro was also fakeclaiming. That means either at least one townie was fakeclaiming Countess, or two scum fakeclaimed Countess and one of them counterclaimed the other, Day 1, for no reason. If this is what happened, it's some 5D Chess distancing. If Mr Popo is Mafia, and knew Countess was in the game, that would mean he claimed the one role where a counterclaimant would be basically guaranteed to be baned. The only way "Mr Popo is scum who fakeclaimed Countess" makes sense is if Mr Popo knows for a fact that both Handmaids were out of commission, so getting a Countess counterclaim would allow him to kill the Countess in the night without any trouble, thus making the princess vulnerable going forward as well. That's the one situation where it could really occur, but that's not what Rogan is describing.

    I think this is just a mistake cuz Rogan is kinda new, it's the kinda thing even I didn't realize initially - I generally thought it would be an awful move for scum to fakeclaim Countess, but I didn't really have a logical explanation for why exactly I thought it was stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Mr Popos post crossed mine. I think it's legit. I still want proof.

    This might not be the best move from a mechanical standpoint. But I think I have made my stance clear regarding the princess and soft claims.

    There is also another (small) danger. If there is no town Prince and the Princess is not in the game yet, soft claiming Princesss could go unnoticed.
    There are ways to check this, plus it's very unlikely. But I like to be paranoid about strange edge cases...

    (Currently writing from mobile, so please be patient... it might take longer than I like)
    I don't know why Rogan thinks the princess claim was serious, but I guess it's not as suspicious as I saw it the last time I looked at it. He's been surprisingly consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Another cross post. I still want a bolded princess claim.

    I think a Prist would have made a terrible move by claiming countess. Especially if it was posted AFTER Snow proposed her plan. The princess would feel fine about claiming and there would be nobody to protect her.
    *looks at Popo post where he claims to have been priest D1*

    I'm sure he had a chuckle over that line.

    There are other assumptions I don't like. The votes for libro came before the soft counter claim. I get flashbacks for PJ. It's like me, as vig shooting AV, the Seer night 1. Sure, it didn't look good for the me on first glance. But I had no way to know I would kill the Seer. (Okay, I could have trusted the Manson claim and ask him in private if I should shoot AV, but I didn't want to claim right away)
    Xi, the one player pushing a vig lynch, was a wolf.

    I continue to get bad impressions from you, Mr Popo. Some of them might be paranoia. But there are so many things speaking against you, I can not, in good faith, ignore them. Sorry.
    As far as D1 cases go, this one ain't bad in general, but I just can't see scum!Popo claiming Countess unless the game is going extremely screwy or he's willing to take enormous risks just to make the game wackier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I would go for self preservation. The disadvantage is, of course, you might die anyway at the next day. But on the bright side, you might manage to kill a wolf.

    Still, I disagree with AV. Going for someone with 0 posts is not useful unless this vote is supposed to force a lurker to post. But lurking does not seem to fit for Emmy.

    We should go for someone more active so we actually have posts to analyze in light of the flip.
    Today is the day for considering inactives for the lynch, to prevent greater losses...but only if we're not feeling pretty sure about a different lynch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I don't see a demand for a claim? Only for activity and activity is good for town.
    But I agree in principle. Voting inactives is not the way to go, unless you are very sure the active players are all town.
    I sat up in my seat wide-eyed at the first line cuz I thought it was about Rogan discussing Popo (ie "I never asked you to claim what are you talking about") and then i saw the second line. I need to calm down, ISOs are breaking my brain lol

    But the better move of course is going for somebody suspicious.

    Currently unwilling to lynch:
    Rogan, Libro, Snow, Xi, BCH.
    They actively gave me reasons to want them alive.

    Not happy about a lynch for Emmy or Rouge.
    They are inactive and therefore, a lynch would not reveal a lot.

    AV starts to get more active, which I see as a win. We disagree about some things (and it still would be funny to see the curse in action) but I think there are better targets right now.

    Jeen... I will have to look at his posts in more detail. But I would like to avoid doing so from mobile.

    I would like to hear more from blades, but I won't put pressure there right now. He said he was busy IRL, which is something I can accept at the moment.
    This posts lists a whole bunch of people to not vote, but doesn't ruminate much on who deserves one. Probably NAI and I'm just paranoid, but slight scumlean on this. Might be trying to look more solvy than he's actually being.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    One of my problems with Mr Popo are absolute statements like that. But it might be a difference in play style.

    I don't know what I should make of him and if anything he does or suggests is really something he thinks best for town, a ruse to hide his true intentions and lure the traitors into a false sense of security, or a wolf playing too much like a wolf in order to deceive everybody.
    I think he is willing to take a risk, no matter the alignment.

    And now I am sitting here, wondering if I should trust my gut, trust some more experienced players (hoping they are not all allies) or do something different altogether.

    I think in some ways, Mr Popo is similar to AV. Both very fond of the manipulation part of the game. I tend to go against AV for the same reasons. I should leave my tunnel and read everything again, trying not to let my prejudice cloud my views.

    Unwilling to vote today:
    Rogan, Libro, Snow, Xi, BatCatHat, Emmy, Rouge.
    AV (it would still be funny, but that's not sufficient reason for a vote anymore)

    Mr Popo is in a weird spot. On the one hand, many things would make sense as a Town player, on the other hand, just as many things rubb me the wrong way.

    I think there are arguments for a vote for Mr Popo, gac, book and Jeen.

    I am going to cross out my votes and check again which of those targets will, in my opinion, yield the best results.
    It's waffling, but it's waffling between "voting somebody Rogan genuinely thinks is scum" and "voting somebody Rogan thinks will give town lots of info to go off". That's a definite struggle. I guess I could see a wolf making this without too much trouble, but it feels more like a townlean to me. Gut feeling but eh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    As much as I like you, Xi, you won't convince me to vote for someone with literally 0 posts and therefore 0 connections to any other player.



    Missing my vote, but I didn't spot anything else to be wrong. But I didn't check everything, so everybody active should take a look to see if their vote is placed correct.





    Unfortuanatly, I had some short notice change of plans, so I won't be able to be active for the next 4 hours. But I will check in again before going to bed. Don't know for sure how long, might depend on the level of activity here.
    Sorry about that.
    NAI.


    Medium Town Lean. Initially the posts I was reacting to seemed very anti-Popo (which seemed like a very bad take to me), but in the wider context of Rogan's ISO, it's clearly part of an established reaction to the idea of people fakeclaiming princess. There's a lot of good stuff in this ISO, and the bad stuff isn't that hard to write off as mistakes of a newer player, or a difference in playstyle, or just as looking worse in hindsight than it actually was in the moment. Still doesn't mean I'm comfortable writing off the bad stuff, though.

    I can see why Popo had Rogan as hard town lean near EoD1 for having "the towniest attitude" or whatever it is he said. Of course, then later when blade said Rogan should be revisited, Popo's position changed to Rogan being on the suspect list (and that was even before bladescape flipped town).

    I think the Popo ISO should be quite interesting, but I've also been up far too long. I'll get to it after I've gotten at least a nap.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: AvatarVecna's Afterlife 2

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    Aspiring optimizers can try their luck in Zinc Saucier XXXIX: Hoist The Colors High

    Quote Originally Posted by Book Wombat View Post
    It's always AvatarVecna time.

  19. - Top - End - #199
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Batcathat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    I'm actually not certain it is. OP seemed to imply that Princess/Countess are always in the game, and it would be strange if a Princess in the discard pile could get "roleswitched" by the Prince onto a player who actually has a role, but couldn't be roleswitched by the Prince after that because the Princess is immune to the Prince's power? That doesn't make sense to me. Granted, none of this is explicit, so I can understand confusion surrounding it.
    No, I think it is. The rules says "If the game begins while no one has the Princess" which seems to indicate that it's possible that no one is Princess.

    I'm at work, so more reactions and reads of my own will have to wait (no one tell my boss how much I already think of this game at work ). As a side note, Popo having a baby makes me even more impressed about his activity and energy. I'm single and childless but not even half as active.

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Aw. I was enjoying not being suspected.

    Meh... some of the points in gac3's post are fair, others not so much.

    - Caoimhin specified which roles would exist, but Princess/Countess could have been in the unused roles and not exist until swapped in by a Prince.

    - After "I can get behind talking about mechanics" the only mechanical posts I made were an explanation of my maths and correcting Jeen's statement about the Baron networking.

    - I'll admit I was... kind of slacking a bit yesterday. A combination of being consensus town and Mr Popo doing so much analysis I guess led me to sit back and let things unfold maybe more than I normally would.

    - I can't be bothered to self-ISO again to see how much I actually contributed but I'm pretty sure it's more than is suggested. I remember saying I found you/Jeen/Wombat wolfy and wasn't too confident in townreading bladescape/Xihirli.

    - I wouldn't say I've been too defensive - she says, partway through a wallpost defending herself. But there's a difference between responding to accusations and being defensive. I'm doing the former.


    Anyway, I'm on mobile and have shaky internet, but I should be back to ISO Rogan this afternoon.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Xihirli's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    As I got older, the people remembered the story but forgot me. I got to settle back into anonymity and everyone else went back to living under your shadow as if it meant nothing.
    Until that day.


    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Xi: The defense of Jeen was fair and looks even better after the flip.
    May I just disagree vehemently here? Very easy for a wolf to be like "ooh! town cred!" when a non-wolf is headed for death. If I'm a wolf, I know Jeen isn't. The fact that I was right is almost irrelevant to the soundness of my argument here.

    Spoiler: Oh and also
    Show
    A friend actually wrote this, though I helped edit. I'll chat with them if they want me to link any of you to their linkedin after this
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  22. - Top - End - #202
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    CaoimhinTheCape's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Oh, and the day on the "converted" time for EoD is wrong (but the date is right so it doesn't really matter).
    Right, I assume you mean Monday should be Wednesday. Will fix.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Okay, back.

    I townread Xihirli now.

    gac3 is... probably my biggest problem to figure out right now. My first thought when I saw their ISOs last night was "that's an awful lot of IIOA"; I still agree with AV's interpretation over Mr Popo's (though I should probably reread the latter's explanation, I only really skimmed it earlier. Though today's seemed a bit better. I think I need to see their thoughts on Rogan before I make a judgement on that.

    Going to go and do that Batcathat meta-dive I mentioned earlier, then I'll stop procrastinating and ISO Rogan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Read through Mr Popo's gac3 townread. It seems to me like he's reading a bit too much into stuff gac3 isn't really saying. But it might be I'm just not crazy (in a good way) enough to get it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay, having skimmed through Afterlife: welcome to my town core, Batcathat.

    The other residents are Libro, Mr Popo, Xihirli and... to add AV or not to add AV, that is the question... yeah. Let's do it. AV can be town, for today at least.

    That leaves gac3/BW/Rogan/Emmy/Supagoof/rogue.

    Three wolves in there? Is that plausible?

    - - - Updated - - -

    gac3 isn't w/w with Rogan or Supagoof, so either
    a) my towncore is wrong
    b) the team is exactly Book Wombat/Rogan/Supagoof
    c) there's a wolf in the inactives

    Of which c) is the most probable imo.

    I'm normally against "lynch the inactives" but I think this game might be an exception.

    That being said I'm not voting for Emmy rn. Partly because she's already lead wagon, and partly because I don't want to mislynch her after last game.

    (Also is it bad that just the act of creating a POE makes me paranoid it's wrong? Probably. As long as I re-evaluate every day it's still a good strategy, though.)
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Meh, I can't be bothered to push through my utter lack of motivation to ISO Rogan. I'll go reread the thread, see if I find anything I've missed or new unpairings within the POE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Tired and slowly losing focus. I'll take a break. But first:

    Things had, indeed, gone wrong. Not only had an innocent guard been arrested, the conspirators had poisoned that nice noble who'd praised her yesterday.

    She could be next. And she really didn't want to die, especially when - no. She refused to think about it. She was not going to die.

    And the best way to make sure that happened was to find the queen's followers. There would be no more quiet observation. She was going to have them arrested. Whatever it took.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  25. - Top - End - #205
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Supagoof's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Literally no analysis, but at least understandable since Supagoof doesn't seem to be participating.
    This would be correct, as I don't check my PC very often on the weekends. Need to get back into the habit of checking the site from my phone.

    Worse though is I did not get a night action in. So I'm sitting here guessing based only on the townreads. I likely would have targeted Rogan because other people I would have targeted (who are Snow - because she is very good on both sides of the coin in these games, BCH - because he has peeked my interest as being very good in these games, or Mr. Popo - let's see what the new guy is doing) I would choose not to target right away since being second to lowest on action resolution would likely have resulted in no result - given the interference and such.

    I will happily thrown myself on the sword for such a misstep, as that does move forward with what my role is - guarding the princess. But since I can do more good alive then dead, let's see who is pinging as suspect this time after I have a chance to catch-up in more detail...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    - - - Updated - - -

    gac3 isn't w/w with Rogan or Supagoof, so either
    a) my towncore is wrong
    b) the team is exactly Book Wombat/Rogan/Supagoof
    c) there's a wolf in the inactives
    Ok, having read through today (because I need more time to read through everything that happened after I stepped away day 1) I've got to agree with a lot of stuff Snowblaze is saying. So, to help

    Rogan - you're the next contestant on "What are you up too?"

    Because I'm not with gac3, but I'm not against him, nor am I with Book Wombat/Rogan - so I choose Rogan for 2 reason.
    1. I would have looked into him night one, but failed, so I might as well find out today.
    2. I'm definitely not with him, but I agree with Snowblaze that hidden amongst the inactives is a likely case.
    Last edited by Supagoof; 2021-09-14 at 11:25 AM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Legionary of Protection
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-kat View Post
    It wasn't that easy. Supagoof's just that good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is LLD, which, I shouldn't have to tell you, will not bow to your math because it was DESIGNED to ruin it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Summary:
    Supagoof has won the game and withdrawn. He was Epic

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Struggling to parse your second reason there: Rogan isnít one of the inactives. Those are EmmyNecromancer and rogue_alchemist, neither of whom have posted at all.

    Good luck catching up with day one, and I look forward to seeing more thoughts once you have.
    I have returned.

    Werewolf games won: 8
    Werewolf games lost: 6
    Games as town: 8
    Games as neutral: 2
    Games as wolf: 4
    Games narrated: 1
    Deaths: 7

    I have no clue what Iím doing, but you still shouldn't trust me.

    Extended Signature

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Xihirli's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    We had started telling stories, sharing secrets. I canít remember who started it now, it might have even been me. They were innocent enough. One girl described how she had stolen a bottle of wine out of her fatherís old cellar, hoping that out of the dozens he wouldnít notice one go missing. Regrettably, it had been some rare bottle they were saving as a twenty-year anniversary treat.
    They noticed.


    I'd be happy to join in on EmmyNecromancer since she apparently was online but isn't posting.
    Like if she's trying to fly under the radar, it's not working, but say something please.
    Last edited by Xihirli; 2021-09-13 at 01:19 PM.
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  28. - Top - End - #208
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    I ended up with less time than I thought. I'll just update my earlier list for now and will hopefully have time to reread some posts in greater detail later tonight or tomorrow.

    Also, a purely technical question for the more experienced players (which is pretty much all of you)... what's the easiest way to gather all of a player's posts so far? Going page by page allows me to quote all the posts I'm looking for but it's kinda slow while using the search function I can find all at once but it seems I still have to click them to quote them or read the entire post. Am I missing some better method?

    • gac3 ó Hard to say, I keep kinda flipping back and forth. Definitely someone I have to look at in greater detail.
    • AvatarVecna ó Feels even more town than before but nothing solid.
    • Xihirli ó I'm still leaning town and for mostly the same reasons. Arguing against her own credibility for defending Jeen is funny but I feel like its something she'd do whether town or wolf.
    • Batcathat ó Probably less trusted now but even more stunningly handsome.
    • Book Wombat ó Pretty much same as gac.
    • Rogue_Alchemist ó No idea at this time.
    • Snowblaze ó Still leaning town, though maybe less than before. I agree with gac about Snow maybe not acting quite like herself, but her explanation is decent, so I remain unsure.
    • Libro ó Pretty much guaranteed town at this point.
    • EmmyNecromancer ó No idea at this time. I'm a little vary of voting for her, just because I remember how useful her inactivity was for us (that is, the wolves) last game. Though in that case she had posted, even if it was very little and rather cryptic, so it's not quite the same situation.
    • Supagoof ó Good to see that he's active again but not really any read on him yet. Wonder what it says about my self-esteem that Goof calling me good at these games makes me suspicious?
    • Mr. Popo ó Still leaning town, I think? I should reread his many posts but the fact I haven't played with him before in combination with his odd (if entertaining) style makes him hard to read.
    • Rogan ó Yet another I'm flip-flopping on.

  29. - Top - End - #209
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Supagoof's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowblaze View Post
    Struggling to parse your second reason there: Rogan isnít one of the inactives. Those are EmmyNecromancer and rogue_alchemist, neither of whom have posted at all.

    Good luck catching up with day one, and I look forward to seeing more thoughts once you have.
    Just agreeing with your logic (since I had note caught up with day 1 yet), not saying Rogan was an inactive. I guess I should have stated that point clearer. Still - not 100% sure on Rogan. I would love to hear more from him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Supagoof ó Good to see that he's active again but not really any read on him yet. Wonder what it says about my self-esteem that Goof calling me good at these games makes me suspicious?
    What can I answer for you? I'm an open book.

    Day 1 - I posted early and got 2 in before I wandered off. Been called Sugapoof before, probably will be again. Also, if you're old school enough, my alter-ego is Graklok. Sorry I didn't give much more read then those 2 posts day one. Because I am old school, I was used to having more then 1 game at a time, so back in the day - I was either switching between multiple games which forced me to be here posting more often, or narrating them, or both. I am attempting to get back into checking more often as it requires more effort now then it did with multiple games. Odd, but that way worked for me. Not used to the new style - which is my fault after being gone for about a decade. Would have thought to get back into the cadence again with Afterlife, but hard to do when I got lynched day 2.

    So - on the "don't look at the 3-card monte" game Mr. Popo is playing, and after reading his dizzying/epic novel amount of posts, he is pinging as sus still on my radar. Might be trying to do sooo much song and dance that you're so busy watching the show, you aren't paying any attention to what's going on backstage. I do love the logic he puts into it, and can see some meta-reasoning in it as well. I don't trust him, but I don't distrust him yet right now either. Ponders about him and Snowblaze working together to mask each others scent. I may just point at him for forcing me to read so much.
    Last edited by Supagoof; 2021-09-13 at 02:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-kat View Post
    It wasn't that easy. Supagoof's just that good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is LLD, which, I shouldn't have to tell you, will not bow to your math because it was DESIGNED to ruin it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Summary:
    Supagoof has won the game and withdrawn. He was Epic

  30. - Top - End - #210
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Book Wombat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Love Letter Mafia

    I kinda like the fact that I usually seem a bit suspicious but not enough to warrant a lynch.
    Voting for EmmyNecromancer too I guess?

    Vote Count:
    Rogan (2): gac3, Supagoof
    EmmyNecromancer (4): AvatarVecna, Mr Popo, Xihirli, Book Wombat
    Book Wombat (1): Snowblaze

    Posted but didn't vote (2): Batcathat, Rogan
    No posts today (3): EmmyNecromancer, rogue_alchemist, Libro
    Out (2): JeenLeen, bladescape
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