Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic remake announced

[Corey]

I actually named a character Revan in two different MMOs.

In line with the ambiguity in KOTOR, the first one was female and the second male.

I'm surprised to learn that subsequent Star Wars canon has him definitively male and more or less solidly identified with the Dark Side.

[Zevox]

Imagine if the maps were more like Skyrim.

Please no. The last thing that I want in, well, any game I'm interested in, is for them to be taking design cues from Bethesda. Pointlessly huge spaces that are either largely empty or dotted with shallow, uninteresting side-quests that you need to traverse to get to anything worthwhile is not something I enjoy. Linear and to the point is perfect area design for a story-centric RPG, IMO.

Imagine if the space combat sections involved dogfighting mechanics.

That seems quite unnecessary. The game is almost entirely on foot, no need to try and force it to be Tie Fighter for a couple of brief sections as well. The effort that would require wouldn't be worth the payoff; better to spend it elsewhere.

Imagine dialogue trees with more varied and subtle options, and a timer to keep you thinking on your feet.

Why on earth would you ever want a timer on something like that? Heavens no, don't put time pressures on making dialogue choices in a game like KotOR.

Imagine if the combat allowed you to move while you attacked or used a force power, instead of making you wait two seconds because you scooched a couple feet to the left to attack that other guy.

That would require the game mechanics to change to being those of an action-RPG, rather than a "real time with pause" one where turn-based mechanics are (badly) hidden beneath real-time progression of events. Which, as has been mentioned previously, I'd be down for, but not everyone would. I think if they were to change the combat system (and I do think the game would be better off if they did), going fully into the turn-based route would probably please more fans of the original than the action route.

I actually named a character Revan in two different MMOs.

In line with the ambiguity in KOTOR, the first one was female and the second male.

I'm surprised to learn that subsequent Star Wars canon has him definitively male and more or less solidly identified with the Dark Side.

Pretty sure that canon version of him was Light Side male, actually. Everyone just talks about him as Darth Revan because that was his role in the backstory of KotOR.

[Fyraltari]

Pretty sure that canon version of him was Light Side male, actually. Everyone just talks about him as Darth Revan because that was his role in the backstory of KotOR.

And because we don't know what name the player picked during character creation.

[AvatarVecna]

Please no. The last thing that I want in, well, any game I'm interested in, is for them to be taking design cues from Bethesda. Pointlessly huge spaces that are either largely empty or dotted with shallow, uninteresting side-quests that you need to traverse to get to anything worthwhile is not something I enjoy. Linear and to the point is perfect area design for a story-centric RPG, IMO.

I'm not looking for pointlessly huge or littered with sidequests, I'm not talking about how it affects the plot. I'm talking about environmental storytelling. I'm talking about maps that aren't essentially 2D that inexplicably have 3D character models walking around them. I'm talking about NPCs that aren't just standing in place doing nothing just waiting to deliver their one line when you stumble upon them (and also them delivering their one line grinds whatever you were doing to a halt because of how the dialogue system works). The closest KotOR got to actually taking advantage of being 3D maps is the occasions where they had ramps instead of just flat floors everywhere. Tatooine had slight hills which was good? But like imagine if - god forbid - Taris had stairs, where there's multiple elevations in the same area, and you could jump over the ledge to get to lower areas if you wanted to. You know, take advantage of having a 3D environment and let the characters interact with it in a way that's different from if the game was a top-down 2D map.

That seems quite unnecessary. The game is almost entirely on foot, no need to try and force it to be Tie Fighter for a couple of brief sections as well. The effort that would require wouldn't be worth the payoff; better to spend it elsewhere.

Those parts are already in the game, except right now instead of being exciting space combat they're a very straightforward "break the targets" minigame. The choices are "remove it entirely", "leave it alone", or "make it fun".

Why on earth would you ever want a timer on something like that? Heavens no, don't put time pressures on making dialogue choices in a game like KotOR.

Because deliberating for 5 minutes over which of 5 dialogue choices to make isn't how conversations work and it kinda breaks immersion when Bastila's impatient conversation grinds to a halt while she patiently waits for you to snark at her? Like idk what to tell you, but the Telltale model of dialogue has gotten awfully popular for a reason.

That would require the game mechanics to change to being those of an action-RPG, rather than a "real time with pause" one where turn-based mechanics are (badly) hidden beneath real-time progression of events. Which, as has been mentioned previously, I'd be down for, but not everyone would. I think if they were to change the combat system (and I do think the game would be better off if they did), going fully into the turn-based route would probably please more fans of the original than the action route.

This is probably the fairest response. Basically anything messing with the combat system is threatening to gut the original in ways people won't like because nostalgia. I think the combat should be better, but I can also acknowledge that part of me would want something like "a 1st or 3rd person shooter, but with force powers instead of guns", and I know that a big portion of the fanbase wouldn't be happy if KotOR became Force Unleashed.

[Anonymouswizard]

And because we don't know what name the player picked during character creation.

We also don't know what gender the player picked, but apparently they're male.

Actually, that annoys me. I've seen people occasionally claim it's 'fair' that Revan is male and the Exile is female, but Revan has a much larger presence in the franchise. Which wouldn't be inherently problematic, but the stories casual fans are most likely to have experience with are already dominated by male characters. I feel that it would have been much, much better for Revan to have been a woman and the Exile to be a man.

A minor detail I like in KotOR2 is that female Revan is the idea presented first, you have to correct Atton (I think) to get the game to assume male Revan. After seeing men so often presented as the default it was a nice touch.

ETA: for the record my preferences would be unchanged maps, more mobile minor NPCs (and have every major NPC look like they're doing something) unchanged or turn based combat, remove the space combat sections entirely.

[Dire_Flumph]

I think I might have preferred an animated movie to preserve the story (which was *BY FAR* the best part) into current canon. I'm curious to see how this develops, but the gameplay of the original has not held up at all for me over the years, so replays never get off of Taris.

[GloatingSwine]

Pretty sure that canon version of him was Light Side male, actually. Everyone just talks about him as Darth Revan because that was his role in the backstory of KotOR.

Depends which canon.

In KotOR2 Revan was always the opposite of whatever your Exile was.

Everything else can be safely ignored.

[Zevox]

I'm not looking for pointlessly huge or littered with sidequests, I'm not talking about how it affects the plot. I'm talking about environmental storytelling. I'm talking about maps that aren't essentially 2D that inexplicably have 3D character models walking around them. I'm talking about NPCs that aren't just standing in place doing nothing just waiting to deliver their one line when you stumble upon them (and also them delivering their one line grinds whatever you were doing to a halt because of how the dialogue system works). The closest KotOR got to actually taking advantage of being 3D maps is the occasions where they had ramps instead of just flat floors everywhere. Tatooine had slight hills which was good? But like imagine if - god forbid - Taris had stairs, where there's multiple elevations in the same area, and you could jump over the ledge to get to lower areas if you wanted to. You know, take advantage of having a 3D environment and let the characters interact with it in a way that's different from if the game was a top-down 2D map.

That's not Skyrim though, that's any modern 3D game. Skyrim is most known for its open-world style of game design, so that's what you invoke when you make that comparison.

Those parts are already in the game, except right now instead of being exciting space combat they're a very straightforward "break the targets" minigame. The choices are "remove it entirely", "leave it alone", or "make it fun".

Those parts are already fine as simple, brief mini-games. They don't need to be anything more. Personally, I'd rather pick "remove it entirely" than "devote a bunch of time to revamping it into something far more involved that it was before, despite it being such a minor part of the original game."

Because deliberating for 5 minutes over which of 5 dialogue choices to make isn't how conversations work and it kinda breaks immersion when Bastila's impatient conversation grinds to a halt while she patiently waits for you to snark at her? Like idk what to tell you, but the Telltale model of dialogue has gotten awfully popular for a reason.

If it breaks immersion for you, just make your choice quickly. Don't force that on people for whom that isn't an issue. (And I have no idea what you mean by "Telltate model of dialogue" or why you think it's popular. I don't believe I could name you any game where there's a forced timer on your dialogue choices.)

This is probably the fairest response. Basically anything messing with the combat system is threatening to gut the original in ways people won't like because nostalgia. I think the combat should be better, but I can also acknowledge that part of me would want something like "a 1st or 3rd person shooter, but with force powers instead of guns", and I know that a big portion of the fanbase wouldn't be happy if KotOR became Force Unleashed.

Honestly, I wouldn't be that happy with The Force Unleashed gameplay either - The Force Unleashed is fairly medicore as action games go. Star Wars has already done much better than that with Jedi: Fallen Order, for instance.

Depends which canon.

In KotOR2 Revan was always the opposite of whatever your Exile was.

Everything else can be safely ignored.

Um, no, in KotOR2 Revan's identity - and whether they went light or dark side - is defined by your conversation with Atton about them at the start of the game.

[Lord Raziere]

Because deliberating for 5 minutes over which of 5 dialogue choices to make isn't how conversations work and it kinda breaks immersion when Bastila's impatient conversation grinds to a halt while she patiently waits for you to snark at her? Like idk what to tell you, but the Telltale model of dialogue has gotten awfully popular for a reason.

This is probably the fairest response. Basically anything messing with the combat system is threatening to gut the original in ways people won't like because nostalgia. I think the combat should be better, but I can also acknowledge that part of me would want something like "a 1st or 3rd person shooter, but with force powers instead of guns", and I know that a big portion of the fanbase wouldn't be happy if KotOR became Force Unleashed.

1. I tried telltale dialogue once in Witcher 3, and I didn't like it because I didn't play it again, thats something I don't want in my dialogue because I'm not someone who can decide that fast, I need time to think what my character would say.

2. I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that people somehow think that KOTOR's combat was apparently tactical enough for them to want more of it, when I've replayed the whole game recently and its basically "use dark side force powers, auto-win even though your still light side", or that people think Star Wars should have tactical turn based combat when thats never been the vibe I've gotten from that universe, Star Wars is popcorn action flick, it likes it epic spectacles, I've never seen Star Wars be cerebral enough to think that tactical turn based combat would be what I want from it, and the combat of Kotor is easy! you can't be really have tactics if its so easy you can win by just doing damage so well it doesn't matter, you just kill everything, there is no strategy to that.

[Fyraltari]

Depends which canon.

In KotOR2 Revan was always the opposite of whatever your Exile was.

Everything else can be safely ignored.

Nope, Atton says Revan was a dark-side female and you get to correct him or not.

Also, let me tell you that if they do remaster The Sith Lords, I am not looking forward to HD Darth Sion.

[Anonymouswizard]

2. I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that people somehow think that KOTOR's combat was apparently tactical enough for them to want more of it, when I've replayed the whole game recently and its basically "use dark side force powers, auto-win even though your still light side", or that people think Star Wars should have tactical turn based combat when thats never been the vibe I've gotten from that universe, Star Wars is popcorn action flick, it likes it epic spectacles, I've never seen Star Wars be cerebral enough to think that tactical turn based combat would be what I want from it, and the combat of Kotor is easy! you can't be really have tactics if its so easy you can win by just doing damage so well it doesn't matter, you just kill everything, there is no strategy to that.

A) the combat certainly needed rebalancing, not removal entirely (although IIRC 2 didn't do it that will 3). This is a thing the remake could do.

B) I have dyspraxia, which means I'll find action based combat inherently more difficult. This even stops me completing many shooters on Easy. So I have an inherent preference for not doing this. Oh, and I don't get to see the ending of Dark Souls because of my really slow reaction times.

C) nobody really expects it to change.

D) turn based combat can be just as cinematic if presented correctly.

E) nobody really expects it to change anyway.


Although if we were talking about KotOR 3, eh I'm less invested. I'd still prefer a move towards TBC, but if it moved towards action I'd be more likely to accept it

[AvatarVecna]

That's not Skyrim though, that's any modern 3D game. Skyrim is most known for its open-world style of game design, so that's what you invoke when you make that comparison.

You misunderstanding what I meant to be "I want the bad parts of skyrim" doesn't change what I meant, especially now that I've clarified what I meant. Are you going to comment on whether or not what I actually meant would be a good change, or keep harping on me for making a comparison you don't like?

Those parts are already fine as simple, brief mini-games. They don't need to be anything more. Personally, I'd rather pick "remove it entirely" than "devote a bunch of time to revamping it into something far more involved that it was before, despite it being such a minor part of the original game."

I think it's weird to cut the space combat out of a space opera but I guess if you're more in it for the western stuff I can see why it might not interest somebody. I'd rather the game was made "more" instead of "less", and it's not like they haven't done mechanics like this in other games to provide groundwork, rather than building such a thing from scratch.

If it breaks immersion for you, just make your choice quickly. Don't force that on people for whom that isn't an issue. (And I have no idea what you mean by "Telltate model of dialogue" or why you think it's popular. I don't believe I could name you any game where there's a forced timer on your dialogue choices.)

"I haven't heard of it, so it must not be popular or good"

Honestly, I wouldn't be that happy with The Force Unleashed gameplay either - The Force Unleashed is fairly medicore as action games go. Star Wars has already done much better than that with Jedi: Fallen Order, for instance.

It's just an obvious example highlighting differences in approaches to gameplay. If you'd prefer a comparison to Dark Souls or Fallen Order or just a broad sweeping gesture to 3rd-person shooter games like I also made, that also works for getting my point across.

[halfeye]

"I haven't heard of it, so it must not be popular or good"

That may be a good principle, but in my experience timers on anything in any game are very, very bad.

[Zevox]

You misunderstanding what I meant to be "I want the bad parts of skyrim" doesn't change what I meant, especially now that I've clarified what I meant. Are you going to comment on whether or not what I actually meant would be a good change, or keep harping on me for making a comparison you don't like?

I'm not harping on it, I'm explaining why what you said created a misconception about what you meant. I would think most people would want to know that.

And as I said, what you meant is pretty much normal for any 3D games these days, so unless the remake is very 1:1 "the original but with modern graphics," it's just what I'd expect to happen. All well and good.

I think it's weird to cut the space combat out of a space opera but I guess if you're more in it for the western stuff I can see why it might not interest somebody. I'd rather the game was made "more" instead of "less", and it's not like they haven't done mechanics like this in other games to provide groundwork, rather than building such a thing from scratch.

The space combat isn't anything more than a minor mini-game in this Star Wars game as-is - and there's plenty of Star Wars where it's not a part of the game at all. It's kind of different enough from the ground-based, D&D-esque combat that KotOR has that making it more than a minor mini-game just becomes a distraction from the point of the game. And it's not like they necessarily have that groundwork from other games, developers don't all just share their resource and coding, and this developer in particular apparently has mostly just worked on ports in the past.

"I haven't heard of it, so it must not be popular or good"

Not the point, the point was to express my confusion as to what you were referring to, so you could explain if you want to. And apparently you're just going to ignore my point about how it should be a non-issue since nothing stops you from making choices quickly, whereas your suggestion does stop those who want time to think from having that?

[AvatarVecna]

I'm not harping on it, I'm explaining why what you said created a misconception about what you meant. I would think most people would want to know that.

And as I said, what you meant is pretty much normal for any 3D games these days, so unless the remake is very 1:1 "the original but with modern graphics," it's just what I'd expect to happen. All well and good.

That's fair enough, I suppose. I still feel "why do you want the bad parts of a skyrim" is a very weird way to have read what I initially said.

The space combat isn't anything more than a minor mini-game in this Star Wars game as-is - and there's plenty of Star Wars where it's not a part of the game at all. It's kind of different enough from the ground-based, D&D-esque combat that KotOR has that making it more than a minor mini-game just becomes a distraction from the point of the game. And it's not like they necessarily have that groundwork from other games, developers don't all just share their resource and coding, and this developer in particular apparently has mostly just worked on ports in the past.

*shrug* Starfinder is popular enough. D&D-ish in star wars setting having vehicle mechanics maybe isn't as weird or difficult or unwanted as you're making it out to be?

Not the point, the point was to express my confusion as to what you were referring to, so you could explain if you want to. And apparently you're just going to ignore my point about how it should be a non-issue since nothing stops you from making choices quickly, whereas your suggestion does stop those who want time to think from having that?

I don't really know how to respond to somebody saying "have you tried using your imagination to pretend the game handled dialogue better?".

It's comparable to IRL D&D and PbP D&D handling RP: IRL, you've kinda gotta improvise and think on your feet and really get into character; if you take several minutes to figure out what you wanna say, the game's gonna move on without you, and you have to live with your choices. It requires you to either think about the kind of person you are ahead of time so you don't get caught off-guard by every random question and having to philosophically debate yourself to figure out how you feel about a thing while people are waiting around, or it requires you to just RP on instinct, feeling your way through the kind of person you wanna be. Either way, you've got to live with your choices. Having to make choices under pressure that are tedious to undo gives them more mental weight and immerses the player better in the game.

Meanwhile in PbP, you can deliberate for days on end, and that exact situation happens so much because people are so bad at figuring out how they wanna roleplay that most PbP games die the second dice haven't been rolled for a few in-game minutes.

There are important differences - primarily that KotOR is not a social game the way D&D is. But Idk, for some reason I'd rather more games existed that pushed players to get better at handling social situations under pressure, rather than game design that encourages them to ignore issues until they decide on which path is the perfect one for dealing with the problem. Timers in dialogue make choices feel more important, and "you can imagine the game made the decisions feel more important because some people are bad at thinking quickly" isn't exactly convincing me it's a bad idea to want games that deliver a better dialogue experience.

[Lord Raziere]

I dunno, I don't think timed dialogue is better personally. its already a bit of a hurdle to look at these short dialogue choices which might not entirely inform me of what I'm going to be saying, which might not have a choice I agree with at all so I have to decide which one is less bad, and so on, and your asking me to make it snappy? with like bioware dialogue trees? early bioware era dialogue trees? no way. bioware dialogue tree is not something you can snap decision with, they need you to think, especially when your doing something like that investigation quest on Dantooine where you have to hear everyone's story and the evidence over and over again to catch the details that are out of place then present it to the jedi your working with.

like that whole spiel about figuring out the character before the game even begins for a videogame, your just asking me to look up all the answers online in a guide so that I can write them all down and refer to that rather than think, when I want to discover and think through a roleplaying game as I go. like its just asking me to spoil the game for myself so I get the outcome I want.

[Anonymouswizard]

Eh, KotOR is different to RL role-playing. I'm perfectly fine not having the timer, it means that slow readers aren't unfairly punished.

At the table with my friends I have to think quickly so that the rest of the table isn't sitting around bored. The NPCs in KotOR don't get bored waiting for me to make up their mind, so I don't see why I need the pressure.

Especially as there can easily be eight options too choose from. While this isn't Planescape: Torment with it's constant repeated options with the 'lie' tag or twenty different responses to one question, but the conversations haven't been designed with quick responses in mind.

[Zevox]

That's fair enough, I suppose. I still feel "why do you want the bad parts of a skyrim" is a very weird way to have read what I initially said.

Because what you and I consider the "bad parts of Skyrim" are also popular parts of it. Hence the explosion in popularity for Bethesda in particular and open-world game design in general that followed in its wake. Like it not, that's Skyrim's legacy in gaming.

*shrug* Starfinder is popular enough. D&D-ish in star wars setting having vehicle mechanics maybe isn't as weird or difficult or unwanted as you're making it out to be?

*looks up what Starfinder is* An unrelated sci-fi tabletop RPG? Doesn't seem terribly relevant here. Nor does it really address that, in making a video game, time and resources would need to be devoted to expanding this in the way you suggest, which are things that the developers will have a finite amount of.

I don't really know how to respond to somebody saying "have you tried using your imagination to pretend the game handled dialogue better?".

The game handles dialogue fine. It allows you to make your choice as you will. If you want to do that quickly without thinking much, you can. If others would rather take their time considering it, they can. Both work. Under your alternative, only your preferred method works. Seems to me like you're advocating creating a system that handles dialogue worse as a consequence.

It's comparable to IRL D&D and PbP D&D handling RP: IRL, you've kinda gotta improvise and think on your feet and really get into character; if you take several minutes to figure out what you wanna say, the game's gonna move on without you, and you have to live with your choices. It requires you to either think about the kind of person you are ahead of time so you don't get caught off-guard by every random question and having to philosophically debate yourself to figure out how you feel about a thing while people are waiting around, or it requires you to just RP on instinct, feeling your way through the kind of person you wanna be. Either way, you've got to live with your choices. Having to make choices under pressure that are tedious to undo gives them more mental weight and immerses the player better in the game.

That's a consequence of the fact that, in a tabletop RPG, you're simply speaking to another person, in-person. Video games are a different medium entirely, and can offer you the luxury of playing at your own pace, taking your time to consider what you want to say. I don't believe it's a good idea to force video games to play more like an in-person tabletop game, personally - they can offer other strengths, and it's better to play to those.

Also, I disagree that that element of tabletop roleplaying results in more immersion, personally. The only things that I find result in more immersion for me is simply better stories and characters that I want to engage with more and enjoy engaging with more, regardless of the medium. Gameplay elements in a game (video or otherwise) doesn't do that for me, no matter how structure it.

[Rynjin]

Because deliberating for 5 minutes over which of 5 dialogue choices to make isn't how conversations work and it kinda breaks immersion when Bastila's impatient conversation grinds to a halt while she patiently waits for you to snark at her? Like idk what to tell you, but the Telltale model of dialogue has gotten awfully popular for a reason.

Yeah, the Telltale model was SO popular...that Telltale went bankrupt.

[Seerow]

On the topic of combat systems, while I love the original in large part due to the D20 roots, if for whatever reason that is not kept, my first choice is turn based. However that is a far less popular option overall, and in the likely event they aim for something more action driven, I do hope we end up with something similar to the FF7 Remake. Its combat system worked for me as someone who traditionally hates action games, because the ATB system combined with the option to do auto attacks and pause/select active abilities when the ATB fills gave the option to play in a more quasi-turn based mode (albeit one that is very cinematic), while still leaving the core as an action game for those who preferred that.

[Zevox]

On the topic of combat systems, while I love the original in large part due to the D20 roots, if for whatever reason that is not kept, my first choice is turn based. However that is a far less popular option overall, and in the likely event they aim for something more action driven, I do hope we end up with something similar to the FF7 Remake. Its combat system worked for me as someone who traditionally hates action games, because the ATB system combined with the option to do auto attacks and pause/select active abilities when the ATB fills gave the option to play in a more quasi-turn based mode (albeit one that is very cinematic), while still leaving the core as an action game for those who preferred that.

Importantly, FF7R's combat is also just plain excellent as an action-RPG. It blends the RPG elements and action game elements of its combat system better than any other I've ever played, making practically every move you gain feel useful in some way due to its varied mechanics, while providing plenty of variety to them and making each character feel unique. I'm not expecting anything of the sort, but if a KotOR remake could somehow emulate that, it'd be a godsend.

[GloatingSwine]

I think it's weird to cut the space combat out of a space opera but I guess if you're more in it for the western stuff I can see why it might not interest somebody. I'd rather the game was made "more" instead of "less", and it's not like they haven't done mechanics like this in other games to provide groundwork, rather than building such a thing from scratch.

Problem is that you do the space combat so irregularly that spending a large amount of effort making a real space combat game for those sections would be a waste, but the space combat in the original is really bad, they're a very dull turret minigame.

So just ditch them. They add nothing to the experience except mild but blessedly infrequent annoyance.

Time limits to choose dialogue are bad for accessibility. Not everyone can read all the options in the time available. They only work if you boil conversation options down to a restricted and consistent set which work best with a constrained character. The only time I can think of where it really worked was Alpha Protocol where you were choosing what type of international super spy you were (Bond, Bourne, or Bauer were the three models IIRC) and crucially remaining silent was a valid option for most conversations.

It's also bad for allowing the player to do investigative exploration of your worldbuilding in conversations, that really does require a more free choice of options.

[Lord Raziere]

A) the combat certainly needed rebalancing, not removal entirely (although IIRC 2 didn't do it that will 3). This is a thing the remake could do.

B) I have dyspraxia, which means I'll find action based combat inherently more difficult. This even stops me completing many shooters on Easy. So I have an inherent preference for not doing this. Oh, and I don't get to see the ending of Dark Souls because of my really slow reaction times.

C) nobody really expects it to change.

D) turn based combat can be just as cinematic if presented correctly.

E) nobody really expects it to change anyway.


Although if we were talking about KotOR 3, eh I'm less invested. I'd still prefer a move towards TBC, but if it moved towards action I'd be more likely to accept it

Kay.

B) that sucks dude. I wish we could both have what we want, but I don't think programming is there yet to make a game able to be played in two completely different styles of combat. I like playing Dark Souls and have the reaction time for parries, I just haven't gotten past Quelagg yet. I've completed DS3 though. not without help mind you, but I've done it.

my opinion on the open world thing, is that would work better for some planets than others. Sure, Kashyyk or Manaan, those can be linear, but when your on Dantooine or Tatooine its kind of weird that your play area is either arbitrarily restricted by these czerka marker things that one point are nonsensically placed to funnel you down a corridor, while Dantooine is a place that is supposed to be a bunch of plains but really your traversing what is essentially a bunch of a very shallow and wide canyons due to the box your in and its a little off.

[halfeye]

Problem is that you do the space combat so irregularly that spending a large amount of effort making a real space combat game for those sections would be a waste, but the space combat in the original is really bad, they're a very dull turret minigame.

So just ditch them. They add nothing to the experience except mild but blessedly infrequent annoyance.

Dull, unskippable and way too difficult, ditch them for sure.

[Anteros]

Or flesh them out. The space combat in ToR mmo is actually quite good. It's basically a rails shooter like Starfox or something. It's not something you'd want to grind every day like the mmo wanted you to, but for individual missions it's enjoyable.

I actually named a character Revan in two different MMOs.

In line with the ambiguity in KOTOR, the first one was female and the second male.

I'm surprised to learn that subsequent Star Wars canon has him definitively male and more or less solidly identified with the Dark Side.

Is there really any canon aside from the MMO? Because even as someone who played and enjoyed the MMO, I don't consider the hack job they did to the lore canon. The individual class storylines are good, but once they tried to move out into the wider universe the wheels fell of really fast.

[Fyraltari]

Is there really any canon aside from the MMO? Because even as someone who played and enjoyed the MMO, I don't consider the hack job they did to the lore canon. The individual class storylines are good, but once they tried to move out into the wider universe the wheels fell of really fast.

Darth Bane is Darth Revan's #1 fanboy. though he seems to focus solely on Revan's life before Kotor I and has now knowledge of the events of the MMO (because his books were written before the MMO came out).

[Anonymouswizard]

Kay.

B) that sucks dude. I wish we could both have what we want, but I don't think programming is there yet to make a game able to be played in two completely different styles of combat. I like playing Dark Souls and have the reaction time for parries, I just haven't gotten past Quelagg yet. I've completed DS3 though. not without help mind you, but I've done it.

my opinion on the open world thing, is that would work better for some planets than others. Sure, Kashyyk or Manaan, those can be linear, but when your on Dantooine or Tatooine its kind of weird that your play area is either arbitrarily restricted by these czerka marker things that one point are nonsensically placed to funnel you down a corridor, while Dantooine is a place that is supposed to be a bunch of plains but really your traversing what is essentially a bunch of a very shallow and wide canyons due to the box your in and its a little off.

While we're likely going to disagree on turn based versus actionised anyway. But yeah, there's a lot of games which I can't play, and Dark Souls is pretty much one of them because of all the rolling (and parrying).


Honestly, **** open worlds for the next five years. They're overdone and often used as an excuse to clutter the game with busywork. I wouldn't mind a redesign of the maps, especially Dantooine, to better represent what it's supposeed to look like, but at the end of the day searching for the cave with all the lightsaber crystals is will be just as fun or annoying whatever the map.

Or flesh them out. The space combat in ToR mmo is actually quite good. It's basically a rails shooter like Starfox or something. It's not something you'd want to grind every day like the mmo wanted you to, but for individual missions it's enjoyable.

I don't think Mass Effect suffered from a lack of space combat minigame, and KotOR wouldn't either.

[Lord Raziere]

Honestly, **** open worlds for the next five years. They're overdone and often used as an excuse to clutter the game with busywork. I wouldn't mind a redesign of the maps, especially Dantooine, to better represent what it's supposeed to look like, but at the end of the day searching for the cave with all the lightsaber crystals is will be just as fun or annoying whatever the map.

Yeah but I know the linear worlds. you play them once, everything else after that is just a replay and you don't get anything out of it. you play a game over and over again you just begin to know it all by heart and thus whats the point because it just becomes a bunch of steps you take rather than an experience and while that can be spiced up by making it a speedrun, not everyone is a speedrunner, which I like more as something to spectate and not something to do, personally.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah but I know the linear worlds. you play them once, everything else after that is just a replay and you don't get anything out of it. you play a game over and over again you just begin to know it all by heart and thus whats the point because it just becomes a bunch of steps you take rather than an experience and while that can be spiced up by making it a speedrun, not everyone is a speedrunner, which I like more as something to spectate and not something to do, personally.

Or you could leave a couple of years between replays? It's what I did for Planescape: Torment and while I still know quite a bit I've forgotten a lot of the a details.

[Morty]

Disco Elysium has a small, self-contained world and I replayed it several times with pleasure, discovering new things on my second or third playthrough. It's all about what the designers put in the game, not whether the world is big and open. Making KOTOR, which wasn't an open world, into one would be pointless trend-chasing. Let's hope it doesn't happen.