Wheel of Time, Amazon Prime

[Psyren]

Shoulda just sent Cenn Buie to Shayol Ghul. A couple hours with him and Shai'tan woulda sealed himself away just for some peace and quiet.

Throw in some Coplins and Congars to handle the Forsaken and that's 10 books gone right there!

[Corvus]

No, but he's been to small remote villages before. Once or twice. You don't need "magic" to roll a knowledge check.

(I mean come on, freaking Elaida knew what Two Rivers people are like, yet you think Lan doesn't?

That's the sort of complacency Lan never showed in the books and is a surefire way to get your ward killed eventually.

I seem to recall it was Morgase who knew about the Two Rivers, not Elaida.

[Anteros]

That's the sort of complacency Lan never showed in the books and is a surefire way to get your ward killed eventually.

I seem to recall it was Morgase who knew about the Two Rivers, not Elaida.

Plus, there's actual trollocs and a fade around. So even if he thought he could be complacent he'd be wrong. Just a terrible take all around.

[Psyren]

Plus, there's actual trollocs and a fade around. So even if he thought he could be complacent he'd be wrong. Just a terrible take all around.

He explicitly didn't know about those until after the attack in the books. But I guess book Lan was careless too.

I seem to recall it was Morgase who knew about the Two Rivers, not Elaida.

You're wrong. Want the quote?

[Mechalich]

And the sword over the shoulder...*sigh*. That is one trope in fantasy that really needs to die.

It's a filming convention really, having to do with the needs of shooting. A sword worn on the hip moves around with the actor, meaning it will be in different places from one shot to the next. Because scenes are often shot out of order and different takes cut together to form the same scene this means a sword worn on the hip is likely to ride around all over the place and look very messy unless extreme care is taken. A sword worn in a shoulder harness doesn't move around the body and is therefore more easily carried throughout the working day without need for constant adjustment.

There's a lot of shooting/prop conventions like this that affect film and TV, even in terms of modern settings. For example, prop blades are blunted and thickened at the tip for the safety of the cast - because a sufficiently narrow point, even if blunt, easily puts out an eye - which means they are heavier than they should be and have altered angles. Likewise props are often made to show attacks penetrating through armor as if its made of paper in ways that simply aren't physically possible because it's easier to mock up an injury that way - ex. grafting an arrow onto a breastplate where it won't move or be knocked off by the actor laughing.

Fantasy (and really historical fiction too) has the problem that a lot of fantasy authors reach back to old fantasy programs they've seen, assume the filming is much more accurate than it actually is and not realizing that certain things are done for prosaic 'this was the only way we could easily assemble the shot' reasons and then write those tropes into their own material.

[Sapphire Guard]

Nothing very remarkable in it, but nothing particularly wrong. They have hoods up because they're coming in out of the rain, Lan scouts the room before Moiraine follows him. I think it's in slow motion, he's walking in at normal speed in universe. Honestly more polished than I expected. Moiraine makes a beeline for the fire because she's wet and cold and annoyed, with a minor power play for the innkeeper, and a bonus 'you don't scare me, kiddo'.

[Traab]

Im not too happy with the entrance. It seems strange that the entire inn would silence itself right away. I would have expected it to go, door opens, a few look to see who it is, and get serious because its a stranger, others notice them looking and the noise dies out in a wave as everyone there realizes something is happening. I actually had to go back and rewatch it to make sure lan hadnt been super dramatic like throwing the door open with a slam or whatever. Then reacting that way to a stranger made perfect sense, it was just too sudden of a reaction.

[Sapphire Guard]

Eh, opening a door during a giant storm would create a big cold draft, it would draw attention quickly.

[Rynjin]

Ripple effects from removing the Aes Sedai agelessness are going to be annoying, yeah. I'm guessing they didn't account for that when writing the scene.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Corvus
But in this case you get a tavern scene so generic that it could be the start of every d&d campaign.

It is aggressively generic, and a lot of that merry laughter came across as forced.

For someone like myself, who doesn’t know the books at all, it does nothing to convince me to explore this world. Even the rather cheesy tavern scenes in the first Hobbit movie had more personality and depth than this.

To those who have read the books, there are clearly layers of meaning involving characters that they’re able to pick out…but to those of us who haven’t, this is flat and opaque. I have to wonder how accessible the rest of it will be to newcomers.

So if the clip is intended to generate interest, it’s not doing much for those of us who aren’t already fans. I’m not writing this off based on a single clip, but I would like to see something that makes me actually interested in the world.

Originally Posted by Mechalich
Fantasy (and really historical fiction too) has the problem that a lot of fantasy authors reach back to old fantasy programs they've seen, assume the filming is much more accurate than it actually is and not realizing that certain things are done for prosaic 'this was the only way we could easily assemble the shot' reasons and then write those tropes into their own material.

Can you provide some specific examples of fantasy authors who have done this?

Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard
They have hoods up because they're coming in out of the rain….

This. When it’s cold and pouring outside, you want your hood up.

Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard
Eh, opening a door during a giant storm would create a big cold draft, it would draw attention quickly.

I was honestly waiting for one of the barmaids to shout out, “Shut the frickin’ door already!”

[Rodin]

Ripple effects from removing the Aes Sedai agelessness are going to be annoying, yeah. I'm guessing they didn't account for that when writing the scene.

In a town as small as Emond's Field, a pair of strangers of any description (Aes Sedai or not) would immediately invite attention. The town is small enough that a peddler coming through is a major event. Attention is drawn first by Lan, who is clearly a warrior. When Moiraine comes in, it's clear from her dress that she's wealthy, which prompts the "My Lady". When the ring is seen, that's when the "Sedai" is added to her name.

[lord_khaine]

Ripple effects from removing the Aes Sedai agelessness are going to be annoying, yeah. I'm guessing they didn't account for that when writing the scene.

Did they actively say they did so?
Seems like a strange choice. Would have though it was fairly easy to handle with modern makeup.

[Anteros]

He explicitly didn't know about those until after the attack in the books. But I guess book Lan was careless too.



You're wrong. Want the quote?

No, because book Lan wasn't a careless and complacent buffoon that simply assumed they were safe because it's a small village. That was the whole point.

[Rodin]

Did they actively say they did so?
Seems like a strange choice. Would have though it was fairly easy to handle with modern makeup.

Yes, they did. It's makeup/CGI that would be required for every second of every scene with every Aes Sedai. It would add up fast and not add terribly much. Same with the camouflage cloaks the Warders wear - you could CGI them pretty easily, but on a TV budget that's an expense that isn't worth doing.

I'm on board with it. Both Lan and Moiraine's appearances in the clip scream "not from around here", and that's one of the only times either the cloaks or the ageless faces matter.

[lord_khaine]

Hmm.. reasonable point about the cost/benefit about the ageles look.
I guess there is a lot of other things to spend money on.

[The_Snark]

I've always been sort of unsure how to visualize the ageless look, anyway. It's described as looking more distinctive than just 'youthful', and I suspect if they'd tried to implement it they'd have lots of people complaining that they imagined it differently, or that it has an uncanny valley CGI sort of look, and so on.

[Psyren]

No, because book Lan wasn't a careless and complacent buffoon that simply assumed they were safe because it's a small village. That was the whole point.

No, the point is you're vastly overblowing what wearing a hood for a couple of seconds does to Lan's awareness.

I was honestly waiting for one of the barmaids to shout out, “Shut the frickin’ door already!”

Technically the Winespring doesn't have "barmaids", those are Bran's daughters. The EF5 don't see a real barmaid until Baerlon.

Eh, opening a door during a giant storm would create a big cold draft, it would draw attention quickly.

Especially a storm on Winternight Eve.

Did they actively say they did so?
Seems like a strange choice. Would have though it was fairly easy to handle with modern makeup.

https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-ra...i-ageless-cgi/

[t209]

Any idea of the newcomer will realize that

Spoiler: Novel lore spoiler

Show

that the fantasy world is post apocalyptic setting where magic is actually futuristic technology and one museum had a hood ornament of a car..

[Psyren]

Any idea of the newcomer will realize that

Spoiler: Novel lore spoiler

Show

that the fantasy world is post apocalyptic setting where magic is actually futuristic technology and one museum had a hood ornament of a car.

I'm sure they'll get around to hinting about it, but you need Thom to plant some of those seeds and I don't think he'lll be in it at the start.

[Ramza00]

I'm sure they'll get around to hinting about it, but you need Thom to plant some of those seeds and I don't think he'lll be in it at the start.

Do we? The first chapter (technically the prologue) sets the first half of what we know with what t209 said. It is a multiple age system with reincarnation and different type of epochs, and the current epoch is a Post Apocalyptic setting and the messiah type figure is going to make it actually worse. All set up in the prologue.

Once that is brought up the second half of what t209 mentioned (lore from the books) is a natural speculation that many (but not all) people will make.

Regardless since we only have 8 hours to cover multiple books I bet it is going to remain just an easter egg and not get limited plot time.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by t209
Any idea of the newcomer will realize that

...?

Cannot make sense of your syntax here.

Spoiler

Show

As for the spoilered part...so this setting is like Shannara? Future tech masquerading as magic?

[Traab]

...?

Cannot make sense of your syntax here.

Spoiler

Show

As for the spoilered part...so this setting is like Shannara? Future tech masquerading as magic?

"any idea IF"

[Misery Esquire]

Spoiler

Show

As for the spoilered part...so this setting is like Shannara? Future tech masquerading as magic?

Spoiler

Show

No, magic is real in WoT. It's just that our modern world is in their past behind an apocalypse or six.

And in their future, vieled by an apocalypse or two - one of which will either prevent, or cause everyone to forget, the use of magic.

Until another event brings the magic back...

Around and around. Like a wheel driven by an unending serpent consuming itself. Odd image, that. Wonder where I got it.

[Psyren]

Do we? The first chapter (technically the prologue) sets the first half of what we know and t209. It is a multiple age system with reincarnation and different type of epochs, and the current epoch is a Post Apocalyptic setting and the messiah type figure is going to make it actually worse. All set up in the prologue.

Once that is brought up the second half of what t209 mentioned (lore from the books) is a natural speculation that many (but not all) people will make.

Regardless since we only have 8 hours to cover multiple books I bet it is going to remain just an easter egg and not get limited plot time.

Perhaps "need" was a bit strong, but his stories about Mosk/Merk and Lenn flying to the moon etc. are some of the biggest indicators we get early on that this might be a far-future setting, as opposed to alternate past like most other fantasy.

(And before you say so, yes, I know that the wheel cosmology means that far future and distant past are the same thing )

Spoiler

Show

As for the spoilered part...so this setting is like Shannara? Future tech masquerading as magic?

The magic is definitely real, though Clarke's Law applies too. One of the prevailing theories is that towards the end of our own Age, mankind will rediscover this magic, i.e. the True Source, which kickstarts the next Age. This implies that some point after the events of the main story we'll all probably forget it exists again.

There are various youtube essays that discuss the cyclical nature of the setting's timeline. Here's one of my favorites (which omits any story spoilers as well):

[Ashen Lilies]

Oh, in addition to the clip, we also apparently have a first listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VekVXk1Wo0

It took me a few listens to really vibe with it, but it's grown on me a lot. Sounds like it could be a credits theme? It has that feel. I'm sure that we'll also get some tracks that will sound more 'typical' of what you'd get from a Lord of the Rings or a Game of Thrones (the music from the clip is oh so very much 'fantasytavern.wav'), but I hope we'll also continue to get a more far-reaching and worldly sound.

Also it's sung in the Old Tongue! Sweet!

[Ramza00]

Perhaps "need" was a bit strong, but his stories about Mosk/Merk and Lenn flying to the moon etc. are some of the biggest indicators we get early on that this might be a far-future setting, as opposed to alternate past like most other fantasy.

(And before you say so, yes, I know that the wheel cosmology means that far future and distant past are the same thing )

Voice of god, outside the series no the past and future are not the same thing just similar. Jordan in the early 2000s was doing interviews and several times he compared same ages, different turnings to tapestries, and how you can have an Impressionism 19th century art effect where how they look at the distant may not be the same as you examining it up close. Same age different turnings may have different details, similar not same.

https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresu...ular%20time%27

[Psyren]

Voice of god, outside the series no the past and future are not the same thing just similar. Jordan in the early 2000s was doing interviews and several times he compared same ages, different turnings to tapestries, and how you can have an Impressionism 19th century art effect where how they look at the distant may not be the same as you examining it up close. Same age different turnings may have different details, similar not same.

https://www.theoryland.com/intvsresu...ular%20time%27

Boy, can you focus on the letter of what someone is saying

Yes, I know there are variations between turnings of the Wheel. "Past and future are the same thing" was not meant to be hyperliteral, it was purely an acknowledgement of the Wheel itself.

[Ramza00]

Boy, can you focus on the letter of what someone is saying

Yes, I know there are variations between turnings of the Wheel. "Past and future are the same thing" was not meant to be hyperliteral, it was purely an acknowledgement of the Wheel itself.

Well it was kind of plot important for the motivation of several characters, since some of them were animated by metaphysics

[Velaryon]

Nothing very remarkable in it, but nothing particularly wrong. They have hoods up because they're coming in out of the rain, Lan scouts the room before Moiraine follows him. I think it's in slow motion, he's walking in at normal speed in universe. Honestly more polished than I expected. Moiraine makes a beeline for the fire because she's wet and cold and annoyed, with a minor power play for the innkeeper, and a bonus 'you don't scare me, kiddo'.

I hope that come across better in context in the actual show, because none of that is what I got from watching the clip myself. Coming in from the rain explains the hoods just fine, though they did lean into the dramatic reveal there. Having her stay outside in the rain until Lan mentions her does seem silly, though. She could easily have stood in the doorway.

But far more awkward for me is Moiraine walking toward the fire, then turning around as if to address the crowd and just... blankly staring at them in silence for a good 10 seconds. I didn't get a sense that she was annoyed, or pick up that power play (unless you mean letting her see the Aes Sedai ring?). It just came off to me as awkward silence not serving any particular purpose.

[Psyren]

What I saw as she turned from the fire was a smirk. Remember she's been on this hunt for over a decade (or even two in this version?) while poring over every scrap from the prophecies. By the time she got to Emond's Field, she was all but certain her quarry would be there - she had looked into Manetheren's past ("the old blood") and knew it fit, which is why she had the story of Aemon and Eldrene ready to go to quell the riot later.

So she walks into the Winespring, and what does she see but a bunch of youths, at least three of which fit the exact age range she's been looking for - with her gaze lingering right on Rand and Perrin. As she surveys the room, she permits herself a moment of smugness that over a decade of planning and searching might be about to come to fruition in one night - and even more amusing, every yokel in the room is too fixated on her outward appearance and demeanor to even guess at what she might be thinking.

All of that feels very Moiraine to me.