Stupid Simple Class Changes?

[Mjolnirbear]

Sure! If I was running a game for a group of people I didn't know, we could have people choose one from a list, like:

Artificers - Arcana, Investigation, any tool proficiency
Barbarians - Athletics, Intimidation, Survival
Bards - Anything
Clerics - Insight, Medicine, Religion
Druids - Animal Handling, Nature, Survival
Fighters - Athletics, Acrobatics, Intimidation
Monks - Athletics, Acrobatics, Perception
Paladins - Athletics, Religion, Persuasion
Rangers - Perception, Stealth, Survival
Rogues - Anything
Sorcerers - Arcana, Deception, Persuasion
Warlocks - Arcana, Deception, Religion
Wizards - Arcana, History, Nature

Or whatever you like. My general idea is to cut down on the Mad Libs-iness of D&D variance, a little; granted, things aren't always going to go your way all the time, but I've seen new players roll a char all like "Yeah, I can't wait to be a smooth talker," and then roll 1s-5s on every Charisma check and pull their hair out. This way, a character has a little slice of safety.

Perhaps it would be simpler to just say "Pick one skill from your class skill list"?

Also, what would happen with multiclassing?

[Abracadangit]

Perhaps it would be simpler to just say "Pick one skill from your class skill list"?

Also, what would happen with multiclassing?

The way I have it now is: "After selecting your character's skills/tools, select one as your Reliable Talent." So we could adjust to say "After selecting your character's skills that come from their class, select one as your Reliable Talent." That definitely works.

I have everyone do this at level 1, so if we were playing a game where people start at a level higher than 1, I would tell that person to select it from the class skills for whichever class they're counting as their level 1, for Hit Die purposes and whatnot.

[togapika]

List of my simple changes to classes at my Table:
- level 15 Oath of Conquest feature changes to: you ignore enemies Immunity to frighten

Aside from the fact that this is ignoring an immunity, which just gets into a back and forth race, say you're an intelligent construct with no emotion whatsoever, how does a Conquest make them afraid?

[Dienekes]

Aside from the fact that this is ignoring an immunity, which just gets into a back and forth race, say you're an intelligent construct with no emotion whatsoever, how does a Conquest make them afraid?

Could go super saiyan. Seemed to work for Vegeta anyway.

[Valorant]

Aside from the fact that this is ignoring an immunity, which just gets into a back and forth race, say you're an intelligent construct with no emotion whatsoever, how does a Conquest make them afraid?

Same for how battle smith Artificer wields two handed axe with his intellect with STR 8, how lighting damage does nothing more for people in metal armor, how dragons are able to fly and speak, how wizards break every laws of physics, including matter and mass and how Enlarge/Reduce doest affect your weight, how making oath into space makes you super human smitting stuff and paralyzing foes around you and how same construct you mentioned is able to exsist in first place.

Magic. Magic.

[togapika]

Same for how battle smith Artificer wields two handed axe with his intellect with STR 8

Sherlock Holmes. He knows what you'll do before you do it and where you'll be to hit you the hardest

[Valorant]

Sherlock Holmes. He knows what you'll do before you do it and where you'll be to hit you the hardest

Wrong example if you talk about RDJ Sherlock. You can clearly see he has trained body, strength and general physical prowness.

However if you have STR 8 in DnD that means you are below average weak. Yet you are so intelligent you can swing a greatsword around with "heavy" property.

So I don't believe in mental/social attributes using GWM unless its telekinesis or Force. I have enough hard time with them using Heavy weapons with INT/CHA but GWM is too much for me.

[Dork_Forge]

Wrong example if you talk about RDJ Sherlock. You can clearly see he has trained body, strength and general physical prowness.

However if you have STR 8 in DnD that means you are below average weak. Yet you are so intelligent you can swing a greatsword around with "heavy" property.

So I don't believe in mental/social attributes using GWM unless its telekinesis or Force. I have enough hard time with them using Heavy weapons with INT/CHA but GWM is too much for me.

Heavy doesn't necessarily indicate weight, but more the general size and how cumbersome the weapon is, for example a longbow is heavy yet it only weighs 2lbs. A halberd and lance are both 6lbs yet only one of them has the heavy property.

Judging by body tone is not a good way to do it, in D&D terms you could easily say that RDJ's Sherlock is a high Dex with decent Con and a 10 Str.

If you really want a reason that isn't magic for how they use literally heavy weapons, then a case of timing and applying their bodyweight through leverage. They don't need to wield it as easily as a stronger character, they use timing and physics to maximise what they have.

If you want an example that's more in theme with the actual texts:

They use magical weapons like Shinigami from the anime Bleach use their Zanpakto, the size of the weapon is meaningless to them, because to them it feels perfectly balanced and of appropriate weight.

This makes sense since the Battle Smith's Battle Ready ability only works with magic weapons and the Artificer specialises in magic items.

[sithlordnergal]

Warlocks get a 3rd spell at level 6 or 7, there's no reason for warlocks to have 2 spell slots from levels 2 through 11.

Don't get me wrong, being able to cast your spells as the max level is ok...but lets face it, that's not so large of a boon that they have to be stuck with only 2 slots for half of their levels. 2 slots per short rest isn't nearly enough, especially if your DM doesn't let you short rest after every encounter. Not only that, but most spells, including Warlock spells, have horrible scaling, so the higher level slots don't make up for your loss.

[sithlordnergal]

List of my simple changes to classes at my Table:
- Wizards loses Arcane recovery. They are OP enough.

Why get rid of Arcane Recovery? While I get wizards can do a lot with their spells, that's really all a Wizard can do, and as such they need that Arcane Recovery in order to let them get through an entire adventuring day. Unlike Clerics, Bards, or Druids, once their spells are gone a Wizard can't do anything at all, and if you're doing a proper adventuring day then your Wizard should be low on spells on the 2nd Short Rest.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Warlocks get a 3rd spell at level 6 or 7, there's no reason for warlocks to have 2 spell slots from levels 2 through 11.

Don't get me wrong, being able to cast your spells as the max level is ok...but lets face it, that's not so large of a boon that they have to be stuck with only 2 slots for half of their levels. 2 slots per short rest isn't nearly enough, especially if your DM doesn't let you short rest after every encounter. Not only that, but most spells, including Warlock spells, have horrible scaling, so the higher level slots don't make up for your loss.

That sounds more like a complaint against the entire SR/LR dynamic. Which, you know, is fair (though the DMG formula has a SR after every other encounter, not every encounter).

[Dork_Forge]

Why get rid of Arcane Recovery? While I get wizards can do a lot with their spells, that's really all a Wizard can do, and as such they need that Arcane Recovery in order to let them get through an entire adventuring day. Unlike Clerics, Bards, or Druids, once their spells are gone a Wizard can't do anything at all, and if you're doing a proper adventuring day then your Wizard should be low on spells on the 2nd Short Rest.

I'm with Valorant on this, they don't need that many slots.

Unlike other casters, Wizards can ritual cast from their book so even if they're out of slots they're down to cantrips, ritual spells and whatever their subclass abilities are. That's still a lot of casting, and the ritual casting means they'll burn through spells slower than other classes might.

The Wizard being low on slots by the second short rest is very up in the air too, most of what they do will be cantrips anyway and they can afford a slot per encounter at 4th level (assuming one slot is for Mage Armor). Realistically some combats won't warrant use of a slot at all, and the ones that do will be of higher difficulty, so you're either getting less encounters or easier encounters going forwards.

[sithlordnergal]

That sounds more like a complaint against the entire SR/LR dynamic. Which, you know, is fair (though the DMG formula has a SR after every other encounter, not every encounter).

Ehh, I find its actually an issue solely with the warlock. As a DM and player, I find every class with Short Rest resources are able to do just fine with a short rest after every 2 or 3 encounters, except Warlocks. Its really only the Warlocks that end up needing/wanting to Short Rest after every encounter, simply because they don't have the spell slots to do anything else. While their Invocations do help a little, they tend to not be enough to make up for the 2 spell slots. I generally give Warlocks a 3rd spell at level 6, and it ends up evening out.

[sithlordnergal]

I'm with Valorant on this, they don't need that many slots.

Unlike other casters, Wizards can ritual cast from their book so even if they're out of slots they're down to cantrips, ritual spells and whatever their subclass abilities are. That's still a lot of casting, and the ritual casting means they'll burn through spells slower than other classes might.

The Wizard being low on slots by the second short rest is very up in the air too, most of what they do will be cantrips anyway and they can afford a slot per encounter at 4th level (assuming one slot is for Mage Armor). Realistically some combats won't warrant use of a slot at all, and the ones that do will be of higher difficulty, so you're either getting less encounters or easier encounters going forwards.

I mean, the Ritual spells do help, though Clerics, Bards, and Druids get the same thing, and those classes all have abilities that come back after a short rest that let them do more than sling cantrips if they run out of spells. Heck, in the Druid's case they have a Subclass with their own version of Arcane Recovery and Wild Shapes on top of it. Where as Wizards, again, only have their spells and really not much else.

They might get some other small abilities, but most of them either have a very limited resource, such as Portent, or only work when you cast a leveled spell, such as Order of the Scribes. But they get no short rest abilities on par with Channel Divinity, Bardic Inspiration, Wild Shape, ect. I feel like Arcane Recovery is a nice balance, otherwise you'd need to give Wizards some abilities to make up for their 100% reliance on leveled spells.

[Dork_Forge]

I mean, the Ritual spells do help, though Clerics, Bards, and Druids get the same thing

They don't, the Druid and Cleric need to prepare their rituals and the Bard has to spend limited spells known on them.

The nature of the Wizard spell list and ridiculous number of spells they get access to means they can effectively have access to whatever rituals they want, whenever they want.

and those classes all have abilities that come back after a short rest that let them do more than sling cantrips if they run out of spells. Heck, in the Druid's case they have a Subclass with their own version of Arcane Recovery and Wild Shapes on top of it. Where as Wizards, again, only have their spells and really not much else.

They might get some other small abilities, but most of them either have a very limited resource, such as Portent, or only work when you cast a leveled spell, such as Order of the Scribes. But they get no short rest abilities on par with Channel Divinity, Bardic Inspiration, Wild Shape, ect. I feel like Arcane Recovery is a nice balance, otherwise you'd need to give Wizards some abilities to make up for their 100% reliance on leveled spells.

It's worth noting that Wizards get more cantrips than both Bards and Druids.

In the case of comparing subclasses:

-Yes portent is only twice a day, it's an extremely potent ability

-I assume you're talking about the manifest mind feature, the manifested spell book has no diration limit, only if you dismiss it, it's destroyed, too far away or dispelled. So you can carry it over from the previous day, you get one free use a day, then you can use low level slots to use it again. They also get later on an additional 1st or 2nd level spell that's auto upcast.

But then there's the other subclasses that do get abilities that aren't so limited:

-War Wizard: A passive benefit and an at will with a minor limitation

-Bladesinger: A series of buffs for prof times per day and later on an absolutely ridiculous (not in the cool way) version fo Extra Attack

-Abjuration: A ward that you can recharge with rituals and minorly through your everyday casting

- Enchantment: Hypnotic Gaze is unlimited in uses as long as you're not just reusing it on the same target

-Evocation: More effective spells means less spells spent, more useful cantrips means less spells spent

-Necromancy: More undead to do things on your behalf

You have to remember, whilst those classes have short rest resources, their subclasses rely on those resources (in every case except some early Druids), making them very hotly contested. Then there's balancing factors like the scouting potential of Wildshape is handled by Find Familiar and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love if the Wizard had an actual niche and features, but that doesn't mean that the amount of casting they get isn't too much.

[Mjolnirbear]

I mean, the Ritual spells do help, though Clerics, Bards, and Druids get the same thing, and those classes all have abilities that come back after a short rest that let them do more than sling cantrips if they run out of spells. Heck, in the Druid's case they have a Subclass with their own version of Arcane Recovery and Wild Shapes on top of it. Where as Wizards, again, only have their spells and really not much else.

They might get some other small abilities, but most of them either have a very limited resource, such as Portent, or only work when you cast a leveled spell, such as Order of the Scribes. But they get no short rest abilities on par with Channel Divinity, Bardic Inspiration, Wild Shape, ect. I feel like Arcane Recovery is a nice balance, otherwise you'd need to give Wizards some abilities to make up for their 100% reliance on leveled spells.

Crucially though, Wizards don't have to prepare their rituals. It's takes up zero brain space. And even though cleric and druid can switch out prepared spells, if you switch it out you can't use it. And bards takes up a precious precious spell known spot.

I actually agree that the Wizard doesn't need it...but I wouldn't bother changing it because I don't agree that strongly and frankly nerfs are less awesome for players than buffs.

I also wish they had more exciting abilities. One wizard plays very much like another, as opposed to, say, artificers, fighters, rogues, bards, clerics, druids, and monks, whose subclasses change a whole lot about how they interact with the world. But like with arcane recovery, I wouldn't change it, because I don't care that much, and it's mostly already the best class and frankly I'm too lazy to work on that.

[Amechra]

Warlocks get a 3rd spell at level 6 or 7, there's no reason for warlocks to have 2 spell slots from levels 2 through 11.

Don't get me wrong, being able to cast your spells as the max level is ok...but lets face it, that's not so large of a boon that they have to be stuck with only 2 slots for half of their levels. 2 slots per short rest isn't nearly enough, especially if your DM doesn't let you short rest after every encounter. Not only that, but most spells, including Warlock spells, have horrible scaling, so the higher level slots don't make up for your loss.

I forgot about this one — I like giving it to them at 5th level.

[Kane0]

If your warlock is having a hard time with the number of spells they can put out during a day i'd rather do the 'cast x spell' invocations once per LR without a slot each rather than an extra pact magic slot.

Largely much of a muchness, but I think the change to the invocations is the smaller, better balanced step.

[Mjolnirbear]

Oh! I forgot one of my recent changes:

https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/343514

Basically, when you become proficient in a skill, you gain an ability related to that skill. When you become expert, you gain a stronger ability.

Some have multiple choices; you only pick one. When you gain expertise, you can instead choose another Proficient ability.

For instance, Stealth Proficiency offers two choices: Shadowing (advantage with stealth checks against a specific individual whilst following them in a crowd) or Footwork (checks made to listen for you while you are hiding have disadvantage). If you gain Expertise in Stealth, you can choose either of those or the Expertise feature, Infiltration Plan (choose proficiency # of Allies, discuss infiltration with them, they gain proficiency in stealth for one hour as they follow the plan).

It means every class gets at least four new thematic and fun options. The casters don't really need it, but my players are all having fun with this and maneuvers

[Paulini]

Question: does anyone have link to some big/official surveys about what classes/subclasses are considered best/worst in 5e?