Lich Mock Trial

[stoutstien]

The Lich uses a 5th-level counterspell.

Wizard follows suit but blew his 7th level slot.

[Asisreo1]

Wizard follows suit but blew his 7th level slot.

Alright. The area is now silenced. It is now the paladin's turn.

**I want to apologize. First it was the paladin then it was the cleric. If you want we can redo that sequence or we can keep it going just for this round.**

[stoutstien]

Alright. The area is now silenced. It is now the paladin's turn.

**Im guessing by my rough count he still too far away to reach the mob without dashing correct?**

*No worries on turn order. I'm having to constantly remember it even exists RaW lol*

[Asisreo1]

**Im guessing by my rough count he still too far away to reach the mob without dashing correct?**

*No worries on turn order. I'm having to constantly remember it even exists RaW lol*

That's correct.

[stoutstien]

Pally dashes up and finally gets into the action. Hoping his aura will protect his friends.
**We might see GWM after all. It's harder to leverage than SS against mobile targets. I might need to readjust and drop the rouge for a GWM ranger or fighter next time so it has a bigger impact if your willing. I'm relearning how to PBP**

[Asisreo1]

Pally dashes up and finally gets into the action. Hoping his aura will protect his friends.
**We might see GWM after all. It's harder to leverage than SS against mobile targets. I might need to readjust and drop the rouge for a GWM ranger or fighter next time so it has a bigger impact if your willing. I'm relearning how to PBP**

Sure, I'm okay playing again.

The paladin dashes and brings his arua with him. It is now the Rogue's turn.

[stoutstien]

Sure, I'm okay playing again.

The paladin dashes and brings his arua with him. It is now the Rogue's turn.

**,No Lair action? NVM another house rule I'm used to.**

Rouge is going to use bonus action to heal Cleric with a healer kit for
(3)+[4]+[16]
And attack action - grapple the lich
(14)+[10]+[1]

[Asisreo1]

**,No Lair action? NVM another house rule I'm used to.**

Rouge is going to use bonus action to heal Cleric with a healer kit for
(3)+[4]+[16]
And attack action - grapple the lich
(14)+[10]+[1]

So, Lair actions occur at initiative 20, losing ties. At least for the lich. Which means it occurs after the lich's turn. Legendary actions are possible on any off-turn, but none were being made this time.

The lich will extend her arm and touch the paladin,
[9]+12=21
11 cold damage, in case it hits and if it does, he needs to make a DC 18 constitution save.

Finally, a necrotic cord whips out from the lich and attempts to cling to the cleric. Have the cleric make a DC 18 constitution save after the paladin.

Edit: cleric makes constitution save, not concentration.

[stoutstien]

So, Lair actions occur at initiative 20, losing ties. At least for the lich. Which means it occurs after the lich's turn. Legendary actions are possible on any off-turn, but none were being made this time.

The lich will extend her arm and touch the paladin,
[9]+12=21
11 cold damage, in case it hits and if it does, he needs to make a DC 18 constitution save.

Finally, a necrotic cord whips out from the lich and attempts to cling to the cleric. Have the cleric make a DC 18 concentration save after the paladin.

**Aye. I personally turned liar actions to occur at different times each round (literally roll initiative for it every round to keep it from being static)

Lich would have disadvantage on pally if she can reach him due to wielding a polearm so should have stopped short miss detail on my part but attack missed anyways**

Cleric check (13/19)+[3]+[3]
*Hey he passed a save finally. War caster isn't quite as good as resistance Con but still a big boon for heavy concentration casting**
**Edit if it's a flat con save it would be 19**

Heading to bed so will post next sequence with wizard backing out of silence zone to cast fog cloud on top of the melee and will wait to see if lich counter spells this attempt

**Be careful with tight corners with anything that needs counterspell to sure up defenses. It's corny but a player could move out of sight and ready action (spell) and then move back into view to bypass CS. Of course the lich could do it also if they aren't concentrating themselves. It's expensive action wise but it's a nice way to shake up an encounter**

[Asisreo1]

**Aye. I personally turned liar actions to occur at different times each round (literally roll initiative for it every round to keep it from being static)

Lich would have disadvantage on pally if she can reach him due to wielding a polearm so should have stopped short miss detail on my part but attack missed anyways**

Cleric check (13/19)+[3]+[3]
*Hey he passed a save finally. War caster isn't quite as good as resistance Con but still a big boon for heavy concentration casting**
**Edit if it's a flat con save it would be 19**

Heading to bed so will post next sequence with wizard backing out of silence zone to cast fog cloud on top of the melee and will wait to see if lich counter spells this attempt

**Be careful with tight corners with anything that needs counterspell to sure up defenses. It's corny but a player could move out of sight and ready action (spell) and then move back into view to bypass CS. Of course the lich could do it also if they aren't concentrating themselves. It's expensive action wise but it's a nice way to shake up an encounter**

That's it for the lich's turn, so now its the wizard's. The wizard successfully moves away from the scuffle and casts fog cloud around the area, heavily obscuring it.

As a legendary action, the lich attempts to touch the paladin. The fog cloud obscures the area, so the advantage and disadvantage stack to make it a neutral to-hit.

[13]+12=25 to-hit.

He needs to make a DC 18 constitution save, and he takes 11 cold damage.

[stoutstien]

That's it for the lich's turn, so now its the wizard's. The wizard successfully moves away from the scuffle and casts fog cloud around the area, heavily obscuring it.

As a legendary action, the lich attempts to touch the paladin. The fog cloud obscures the area, so the advantage and disadvantage stack to make it a neutral to-hit.

[13]+12=25 to-hit.

He needs to make a DC 18 constitution save, and he takes 11 cold damage.

(15)+[2]+[3]+[1]

Pally just goes all in and -/+ his heart out
Attack action
(2)
(4)
(20)
Damage from crit,GWM, and 4th lv smite 123

**Not a good showing for the feat but I think the party's general level of choices are close to DMGs expectations.**

[Asisreo1]

(15)+[2]+[3]+[1]

Pally just goes all in and -/+ his heart out
Attack action
(2)
(4)
(20)
Damage from crit,GWM, and 4th lv smite 123

**Not a good showing for the feat but I think the party's general level of choices are close to DMGs expectations.**

Mirror Image duplicate rolls:
[4] It targets the real lich, lich dodges.
[5] targets the real lich, also dodges.
[17]targets a duplicate, hits the duplicate.

It is now the cleric's turn.

[stoutstien]

Mirror Image duplicate rolls:
[4] It targets the real lich, lich dodges.
[5] targets the real lich, also dodges.
[17]targets a duplicate, hits the duplicate.

It is now the cleric's turn.

**Mirror image is negated by fog cloud. If you want to rule otherwise to keep it rolling all good. I'll roll back the smite due to this information and instead only use gwm -/+ to try to get lucky which he didn't.**

Cleric is going to move back 5 ft and use his CD to heal the party.

**160 HP should be able to bring everyone back to full but I'll verify once I get to my notebook.**

**Edit. Not quite but only the pally isn't topped off.**

Cleric is going to continue to back away until he is out of the silence area and cast spiritual weapon with a 2nd level slot and have it attack the lich
Attack (12)+[5] 17
If hit
Damage (8)+[5] 12

He should end up 25 ft away towards the direction of the lich's original location.

**Probably not far enough away to not get caught in one of the lich's AoE blasts but thus is the plight of reduced movement speeds.**

[Asisreo1]

**Mirror image is negated by fog cloud. If you want to rule otherwise to keep it rolling all good. I'll roll back the smite due to this information and instead only use gwm -/+ to try to get lucky which he didn't.**

Cleric is going to move back 5 ft and use his CD to heal the party.

**160 HP should be able to bring everyone back to full but I'll verify once I get to my notebook.**

**Edit. Not quite but only the pally isn't topped off.**

Cleric is going to continue to back away until he is out of the silence area and cast spiritual weapon with a 2nd level slot and have it attack the lich
Attack (12)+[5] 17
If hit
Damage (8)+[5] 12

He should end up 25 ft away towards the direction of the lich's original location.

**Probably not far enough away to not get caught in one of the lich's AoE blasts but thus is the plight of reduced movement speeds.**

No need. You're correct about Mirror Image. Man, leave it to a paladin's crit to end an undead encounter. Though the initial fireball helped alot.

The team did good but its still sad when your BBEG had potential and lost it to a 5% chance. We'll play again, though.

Besides, I should remind myself that the goal of the lich was never to threaten permanent death to the party since its not a full adventuring day encounter.

I do theorize that having the lich encounter be an actual full adventuring day versus the level appropriate party would start to swing heavily towards the lich.

Also, I'm gonna need you people to start failing your saves against effects. Even when its worse odds than a coin toss, its like nothing connects except damage. I'll analyze because I want to see the odds of this...the first sentence is a joke, btw. I'm not actually telling you to try to fail, lol.

[stoutstien]

No need. You're correct about Mirror Image. Man, leave it to a paladin's crit to end an undead encounter. Though the initial fireball helped alot.

The team did good but its still sad when your BBEG had potential and lost it to a 5% chance. We'll play again, though.

Besides, I should remind myself that the goal of the lich was never to threaten permanent death to the party since its not a full adventuring day encounter.

I do theorize that having the lich encounter be an actual full adventuring day versus the level appropriate party would start to swing heavily towards the lich.

Also, I'm gonna need you people to start failing your saves against effects. Even when its worse odds than a coin toss, its like nothing connects except damage. I'll analyze because I want to see the odds of this...the first sentence is a joke, btw. I'm not actually telling you to try to fail, lol.

Lol no joke i was hoping for a few more failed STs and was praying that I wouldn't crit with the pally. I almost rerolled it because I was disappointed that's how it ended. I was hoping the damage link would land because that is one of the more interesting things about lichs.
The overall saves were a lot closer to coin flips, as you noted, without all the stacked bonuses. the pally accounts for almost all of them so the party would have needed to spend another 30% of their resources and the encounter would have a good chance of dropping at least one member with out him.

Was the overall level of organization and planning about right for the party? About a round of actions total that were ineffective as I tried to base it on the concept the wizard telling the party how he could be most effectively taken down. They were taken back by the fire ball and surprised by the Necrotic burst after they DD up close because they were expecting more subtle tactics.

When I get time today I'm goin bench the pally and rouge then whip up a PHB ranger and fighter so we could actually see some weapon attacks. Maybe. Big room lol.

[Asisreo1]

Lol no joke i was hoping for a few more failed STs and was praying that I wouldn't crit with the pally. I almost rerolled it because I was disappointed that's how it ended. I was hoping the damage link would land because that is one of the more interesting things about lichs.
The overall saves were a lot closer to coin flips, as you noted, without all the stacked bonuses. the pally accounts for almost all of them so the party would have needed to spend another 30% of their resources and the encounter would have a good chance of dropping at least one member with out him.

Was the overall level of organization and planning about right for the party? About a round of actions total that were ineffective as I tried to base it on the concept the wizard telling the party how he could be most effectively taken down. They were taken back by the fire ball and surprised by the Necrotic burst after they DD up close because they were expecting more subtle tactics.

When I get time today I'm goin bench the pally and rouge then whip up a PHB ranger and fighter so we could actually see some weapon attacks. Maybe. Big room lol.

Alright.

The bursts and fireballs were to drain HP. It worked decently.

The tricky thing is the rogue with athletics expertise. Its not a bad build for single target fights, but I usually don't see it as the gimmick quickly goes sour when there are multiple enemies or when the enemy prefers squishy targets as close as possible. A rogue built this way for an informed one-shot makes sense since its a common anti-mage tactic.

Usually, someone like a barbarian would go for grapple attempts. Barbarians actually aren't a horrible matchup, either, in this battle. They'd get advantage and they're bulky enough that HP isn't much of an issue. Plus, they excel being in melee distance so that's another plus even in-general.

Let me know what your Ranger & Fighter are like when you're done.

[stoutstien]

Alright.

The bursts and fireballs were to drain HP. It worked decently.

The tricky thing is the rogue with athletics expertise. Its not a bad build for single target fights, but I usually don't see it as the gimmick quickly goes sour when there are multiple enemies or when the enemy prefers squishy targets as close as possible. A rogue built this way for an informed one-shot makes sense since its a common anti-mage tactic.

Usually, someone like a barbarian would go for grapple attempts. Barbarians actually aren't a horrible matchup, either, in this battle. They'd get advantage and they're bulky enough that HP isn't much of an issue. Plus, they excel being in melee distance so that's another plus even in-general.

Let me know what your Ranger & Fighter are like when you're done.

That particular rouge build is one I've personally used back when PHB was the only source book. The expertise is used more for fast hand tricks like pulling rugs out from under someone feet or shoving foes into adventuring gear laid out like a hunters trap.
It's a CC build that I admit isn't very common but man is it a blast to play.

Rouges are surprisingly hearty as a front line bruiser and once you just disregard the concept of trying to just deal damage via sneak attack as much as possible its a good 5th man in a four man party with a little bit of everything even clutch heals. I usually dip fighter for extra attack, net Prof, and maneuvers but for this I wanted to keep everyone single class.

I was hoping he would do more than grapple but the pally was just too slow.

[stoutstien]

Settled on just grabbing 2 champion fighters because they really don't have much besides those feats to lean on.

Stout halfling Archer
10 20 16 19 14 10
HP 148
AC 18
Feats other than dex boosts- SS/CBE/ lucky/ alert

Magic items - magic hand crossbow, goggles of night, and headband of intelligence.

Half orc champion
20 12 16 8 14 8
HP 148
AC 19
Feats other than str boosts- HaM, PaM, GWM, res Wis, Mobile

Magic items- flametounge glaive, Adam plate, pam of wound closure.

Will mix up prebuffing as well with an uncasted aid (lv 4) on wizard, cleric, and GWM fighter ( let's call him meat stick), Ray's bond as a ritual, death Ward on wizard, and long strider on meat stick. Sticking to long duration buffs.

We could say each caster are missing half of 1-4th and 7th lv slots to emulate end game type fight. Mentally I could see this fight as an extra push to prevent to lich from ever coming back to haunt the party/world rather than retreating.

[Asisreo1]

Settled on just grabbing 2 champion fighters because they really don't have much besides those feats to lean on.

Stout halfling Archer
10 20 16 19 14 10
HP 148
AC 18
Feats other than dex boosts- SS/CBE/ lucky/ alert

Magic items - magic hand crossbow, goggles of night, and headband of intelligence.

Half orc champion
20 12 16 8 14 8
HP 148
AC 19
Feats other than str boosts- HaM, PaM, GWM, res Wis, Mobile

Magic items- flametounge glaive, Adam plate, pam of wound closure.

Will mix up prebuffing as well with an uncasted aid (lv 4) on wizard, cleric, and GWM fighter ( let's call him meat stick), Ray's bond as a ritual, death Ward on wizard, and long strider on meat stick. Sticking to long duration buffs.

We could say each caster are missing half of 1-4th and 7th lv slots to emulate end game type fight. Mentally I could see this fight as an extra push to prevent to lich from ever coming back to haunt the party/world rather than retreating.

The spell slots are fine since the initial question was more about -5 +10 feats. It wasn't ever a question of if the party would win, but how.

I'd probably just create a whole one-shot if I wanted to test single-enemy encounters within an adventuring day and I'd lower your level significantly if I wanted to present this encounter as more of a challenge.

When you're ready, roll initiative and we can start the next test.

Lich's initiative: [20]+3= 23

[stoutstien]

The spell slots are fine since the initial question was more about -5 +10 feats. It wasn't ever a question of if the party would win, but how.

I'd probably just create a whole one-shot if I wanted to test single-enemy encounters within an adventuring day and I'd lower your level significantly if I wanted to present this encounter as more of a challenge.

When you're ready, roll initiative and we can start the next test.

Lich's initiative: [20]+3= 23

**Aye. I was thinking the lack of slots might force leaning on SS/GWM more being less resource dependent.**

Halfling - (10)+[5]+[5]+[3] =23
Meat stick (6)+[1]+[3]=10
Wizard (7)+[2]=9
Cleric (1)+[1]=2

[Asisreo1]

**Aye. I was thinking the lack of slots might force leaning on SS/GWM more being less resource dependent.**

Halfling - (10)+[5]+[5]+[3] =23
Meat stick (6)+[1]+[3]=10
Wizard (7)+[2]=9
Cleric (1)+[1]=2

The Halfling can go first.

Standing 60ft from the entrance, next to the pillar on the left side facing the throne, an undead woman and three shifting, illusory duplicates awaits. Surrounding her is a shimmering barrier of magic. While she's next to the pillar, she isn't using it as cover just yet. She says "Your deaths will be swift and painful. Your souls will be consumed, your skin will be used for leather, and your bones shall join the ranks of my legion."

She gets in a combat stance.

[stoutstien]

The Halfling can go first.

Standing 60ft from the entrance, next to the pillar on the left side facing the throne, an undead woman and three shifting, illusory duplicates awaits. Surrounding her is a shimmering barrier of magic. While she's next to the pillar, she isn't using it as cover just yet. She says "Your deaths will be swift and painful. Your souls will be consumed, your skin will be used for leather, and your bones shall join the ranks of my legion."

She gets in a combat stance.

Halfling is going to fire a volley while making her way to the first pillar on the same side. Hoping to get full cover.
(20)+[7]= crit (3)+5=8
(17)+[7] =24 (5)+5= 10
(8)+[7]= 15. (2)+5= 7
(11)+[7]=18. (2)+5=7

[Asisreo1]

Halfling is going to fire a volley while making her way to the first pillar on the same side. Hoping to get full cover.
(20)+[7]= crit (3)+5=8
(17)+[7] =24 (5)+5= 10
(8)+[7]= 15. (2)+5= 7
(11)+[7]=18. (2)+5=7

Duplicate rolls:
[6]The attack lands on a duplicate.
[5]The attack lands on the lich, dealing 10 damage.
[17]The attack lands on a duplicate
[18]The attack lands on a duplicate

All three duplicates have been eliminated. The rogue has successfully gained full cover.

The lich casts Ray of Frost at the cleric, with a
[4]+12=16, I doubt that hits.

He then uses his turn to cast Disintegrate at 7th-level on the cleric. He must make a dexterity saving throw or take

[51]+40=91 force damage.

Next, a shadowy apparition forms behind the cleric, dealing 44 damage on a failed constitution save or 22 on a success.

[stoutstien]

Duplicate rolls:
[6]The attack lands on a duplicate.
[5]The attack lands on the lich, dealing 10 damage.
[17]The attack lands on a duplicate
[18]The attack lands on a duplicate

All three duplicates have been eliminated. The rogue has successfully gained full cover.

The lich casts Ray of Frost at the cleric, with a
[4]+12=16, I doubt that hits.

He then uses his turn to cast Disintegrate at 7th-level on the cleric. He must make a dexterity saving throw or take

[51]+40=91 force damage.

Next, a shadowy apparition forms behind the cleric, dealing 44 damage on a failed constitution save or 22 on a success.

Ray of frost misses
Dex save (8) fail
Con save (7) fail
Cleric is now at 44 HP **ouch**

[Asisreo1]

Ray of frost misses
Dex save (8) fail
Con save (7) fail
Cleric is now at 44 HP **ouch**

Its now meat stick's turn.

[stoutstien]

Its now meat stick's turn.

Runs up and attempts to shove (prone) the lich with first attack
(14)+[10]=24

If successful will follow up with rest of attack action/Pam bonus action attack with GWM. Will use bonus action from GWM on crit.

Action surge

(1/20) crit (3)+[15]= 18
(11/9)miss
(1/9)miss
(18/4) crit. (15)+[15] = 30

(19,11) crit. (17)+[15] =32
(11,1) miss
(10,4) miss

[Asisreo1]

Runs up and attempts to shove (prone) the lich with first attack
(14)+[10]=24

If successful will follow up with rest of attack action/Pam bonus action attack with GWM. Will use bonus action from GWM on crit.

Action surge

(1/20) crit (3)+[15]= 18
(11/9)miss
(1/9)miss
(18/4) crit. (15)+[15] = 30

(19,11) crit. (17)+[15] =32
(11,1) miss
(10,4) miss

If I calculated your movement correctly, you have 30ft from base race, 10ft from longstrider, and 10ft from mobile, meaning you have a speed of 50ft, which isn't enough for the 60ft distance of the lich to be within melee. You may have to take the dash action to get within melee.

[stoutstien]

If I calculated your movement correctly, you have 30ft from base race, 10ft from longstrider, and 10ft from mobile, meaning you have a speed of 50ft, which isn't enough for the 60ft distance of the lich to be within melee. You may have to take the dash action to get within melee.

**Glaive is 10ft so barely reach her. Forgot to turn on flame on weapon**

[Asisreo1]

**Glaive is 10ft so barely reach her. Forgot to turn on flame on weapon**

Ah, I see. That would mean, however, that your attacks have disadvantage since you're not within 5ft of the lich.

[stoutstien]

Ah, I see. That would mean, however, that your attacks have disadvantage since you're not within 5ft of the lich.

**Ack another rule Ive changed. Seriously who came up with that concept. Knocking foes over and then hitting them is 90% of what pole arms were designed to do**

Meat stick uses bonus action to activate his flame tongue and then makes his three attacks with GWM
Two misses and a critical hit with an 18.
Damage (23)+[15] =38