Lich Mock Trial

[Asisreo1]

**Ack another rule Ive changed. Seriously who came up with that concept. Knocking foes over and then hitting them is 90% of what pole arms were designed to do**

Meat stick uses bonus action to activate his flame tongue and then makes his three attacks with GWM
Two misses and a critical hit with an 18.
Damage (23)+[15] =38

Alright, then the lich casts ray of frost at the cleric.

[17]+12=29
[4]+[2]+[4]+[6] = 16 damage at the cleric.

It is now the wizard's turn.

[stoutstien]

Alright, then the lich casts ray of frost at the cleric.

[17]+12=29
[4]+[2]+[4]+[6] = 16 damage at the cleric.

It is now the wizard's turn.

The wizards are going to step in front of the cleric.
"I think you might have forgotten about me"
He casts DD to teleport the cleric and himself 90 ft on the other side of the lich.

[Asisreo1]

The wizards are going to step in front of the cleric.
"I think you might have forgotten about me"
He casts DD to teleport the cleric and himself 90 ft on the other side of the lich.

The lich casts a 4th-level counterspell. She then targets meat stick with a frightening gaze. Have them make a wisdom saving throw or be frightened.

"I assure you, I haven't forgotten."

**Also, I just noticed you have Resilient:Wis on meat stick. I'm not sure if that was intentional, I thought we weren't doing resilient feats.**

[stoutstien]

The lich casts a 4th-level counterspell. She then targets meat stick with a frightening gaze. Have them make a wisdom saving throw or be frightened.

"I assure you, I haven't forgotten."

**Also, I just noticed you have Resilient:Wis on meat stick. I'm not sure if that was intentional, I thought we weren't doing resilient feats.**

**Crap you are right. It's an auto pick for any Frontliner I make that doesn't have any save boosters. I'll switch it out for... observant. So wis score remains the same**

(16)+[2]=18 for Wis save.

[Asisreo1]

**Crap you are right. It's an auto pick for any Frontliner I make that doesn't have any save boosters. I'll switch it out for... observant. So wis score remains the same**

(16)+[2]=18 for Wis save.

**Guh, this is getting ridiculous..., where's my luck**

Its now the cleric's turn.

[stoutstien]

**Guh, this is getting ridiculous..., where's my luck**

Its now the cleric's turn.

**Used it all on the cleric lol.**
Cleric is going to cast heal and recover 78 HP. Back up to 106. He going to move behind the nearest pillar, say left side.

** With reduced speed he might not make it**

[Asisreo1]

**Used it all on the cleric lol.**
Cleric is going to cast heal and recover 78 HP. Back up to 106. He going to move behind the nearest pillar, say left side.

** With reduced speed he might not make it**

He won't, but he's close. Its now the archer's turn.

[stoutstien]

He won't, but he's close. Its now the archer's turn.

He is going to lean out and go for broke with SS
(19)+12. Critical (7)+15= 22
(11)+12= 22 (4)+15= 19
(2) lucky reroll(4)+12 miss
(2)+12. Miss

Action surge

(11)+12=22 (1)+15=16
(20)+12 critical (5)+15 =20
(Nat 1) halfling luck R(18)+12
Critical (3)+15=18

**Scratch edit. I had it the first time**

[Asisreo1]

He is going to lean out and go for broke with SS
(19)+12. (7)+15= 22
(11)+12. (4)+15= 19
(2) lucky reroll(4)+12 miss
(2)+12. Miss

Action surge

(11)+12 (1)+15=16
(20)+12. (5)+15 =20
(Nat 1) halfling luck R(18)+12
(3)+15=18

**I'm confused about the +12...

+5 for dex, +5 for proficiency, +2 for archery style and -5 for SS.

That should be a +7 to-hit, rather than a +12. It actually doesn't matter at the moment, but its something to keep in mind.**

Alright, an additional 95 damage done to the lich. She's reeling, but she's not out. She walks forwards 5ft to meatstick and says "Go, quietly, to the shadowfell."

She casts plane shift on meat stick. (8th level).

[20]+12 critical, automatically hits. Meatstick must make a DC 20 charisma saving throw, but I don't think he's able to succeed, so its automatic.

Next, a beam of necrotic energy attempts to latch itself onto the cleric. Have them make a DC 18 constitution saving throw. In this position, she's is in view of the archer.

It is now the wizard's turn.

[stoutstien]

**I'm confused about the +12...

+5 for dex, +5 for proficiency, +2 for archery style and -5 for SS.

That should be a +7 to-hit, rather than a +12. It actually doesn't matter at the moment, but its something to keep in mind.**

Alright, an additional 95 damage done to the lich. She's reeling, but she's not out. She walks forwards 5ft to meatstick and says "Go, quietly, to the shadowfell."

She casts plane shift on meat stick. (8th level).

[20]+12 critical, automatically hits. Meatstick must make a DC 20 charisma saving throw, but I don't think he's able to succeed, so its automatic.

Next, a beam of necrotic energy attempts to latch itself onto the cleric. Have them make a DC 18 constitution saving throw. In this position, she's is in view of the archer.

It is now the wizard's turn.

**I just subtract from the dice roll
(Excluding crits and Nat 1for halfling) for SS/GWM to show it's direct impact but I can move the value to it's own space if you like to make it easier to read.**

[Asisreo1]

**I just subtract from the dice roll
(Excluding crits and Nat 1for halfling) for SS/GWM to show it's direct impact but I can move the value to it's own space if you like to make it easier to read.**

If you could do that, I'd appreciate it thanks.

[Asisreo1]

And in case you missed it, its wiz's turn.

[stoutstien]

**sorry fell asleep.**

Wizard is going to attempt to counterspell the lich' using his 6th lv slot
(18)+5=23
If fails meat sticks Cha save
(12)-[1]=11
Indomitable
(19)-[1]=1

Clerics con save for tether
(13)+3=16

Wizards turn will be used to ready a 5th level magic missile if lich counter's counterspell(trigger will be mental que sent by cleric via Ray's bond) and if not he will use PW:S.

[Asisreo1]

**sorry fell asleep.**

Wizard is going to attempt to counterspell the lich' using his 6th lv slot
(18)+5=23
If fails meat sticks Cha save
(12)-[1]=11
Indomitable
(19)-[1]=1

Clerics con save for tether
(13)+3=16

Wizards turn will be used to ready a 5th level magic missile if lich counter's counterspell(trigger will be mental que sent by cleric via Ray's bond) and if not he will use PW:S.

The lich doesn't counter counterspell, as the initial counterspell simply fails. As for PW:S, the lich uses an 8th-level counterspell.

The lich then uses frightening gaze on the archer, have them make a wisdom save or be frightened. It is now the cleric's turn.

[stoutstien]

The lich doesn't counter counterspell, as the initial counterspell simply fails. As for PW:S, the lich uses an 8th-level counterspell.

The lich then uses frightening gaze on the archer, have them make a wisdom save or be frightened. It is now the cleric's turn.

**May I ask why the initial counter spell failed**

[Asisreo1]

**May I ask why the initial counter spell failed**

Globe of Invulnerability stops all spells below 5th-level cast outside the sphere, including lower level spells upcasted such as a 6th-level counterspell.

[stoutstien]

Globe of Invulnerability stops all spells below 5th-level cast outside the sphere, including lower level spells upcasted such as a 6th-level counterspell.

**Ok just verifying that my wizard made the "wrong" decision for the right reasons lol. **

Halfling ST
(20/2) + [2]=22

Cleric will cast dispel magic on dome/globe using 3rd lv slot
(13)+5=18

[Asisreo1]

**Ok just verifying that my wizard made the "wrong" decision for the right reasons lol. **

Halfling ST
(20/2) + [2]=22

Cleric will cast dispel magic on dome/globe using 3rd lv slot
(13)+5=18

Alright, the globe disappears. The lich casts Ray of Frost at the Cleric.

[19]+12=31
[6]+[6]+[8]+[5] = 25 damage at the cleric. Its now the archer's turn.

[stoutstien]

Alright, the globe disappears. The lich casts Ray of Frost at the Cleric.

[19]+12=31
[6]+[6]+[8]+[5] = 25 damage at the cleric. Its now the archer's turn.

Archer is going to make he's 4 attacks with SS
(13)+7=23 (2)+15=17
(11)+7=18. (4)+15=19
(8)+7= miss
(18)+7=crit (5)+15=20

[Asisreo1]

Archer is going to make he's 4 attacks with SS
(13)+7=23 (2)+15=17
(11)+7=18. (4)+15=19
(8)+7= miss
(18)+7=crit (5)+15=20

The lich takes 28 damage. She's literally on death's door. The cleric takes 28 damage as well. The lich casts a 9th-level disintegrate on the cleric, dealing

[75]+40=115 force damage on a failed dex save. If that reduces him to 0, he turns to dust.

The lich laughs "Perhaps I might not live, but I'll be sure one of you surely dies!"

He then moves towards the archer.

[stoutstien]

The lich takes 28 damage. She's literally on death's door. The cleric takes 28 damage as well. The lich casts a 9th-level disintegrate on the cleric, dealing

[75]+40=115 force damage on a failed dex save. If that reduces him to 0, he turns to dust.

The lich laughs "Perhaps I might not live, but I'll be sure one of you surely dies!"

He then moves towards the archer.

Wizard is going toss out a counterspell at lv 3
(16)+5=21

If counter/counterspell cleric save

(19)+[1]=20

**Of all the saves on this bout the cleric makes this one..

Powerword:kill would have done him in.**

[Asisreo1]

Wizard is going toss out a counterspell at lv 3
(16)+5=21

If counter/counterspell cleric save

(19)+[1]=20

**Of all the saves on this bout the cleric makes this one..

Powerword:kill would have done him in.**

Agh, I miscalculated HP. Anyways, she would have counterspelled and the cleric dodges out of the way. The lich essentially dies within the next round so we probably don't need to continue this round.

[stoutstien]

Agh, I miscalculated HP. Anyways, she would have counterspelled and the cleric dodges out of the way. The lich essentially dies within the next round so we probably don't need to continue this round.

**NP. Guess meat stick will have to wait a day to get gated back unless the cleric can roll enough for divine intervention. Nope (31).

The wizard and cleric wasting the first few rounds definitely made this deadly for the party and SS is just easier to leverage thanks to archery and range.

The largest factor I see for this party that lacks a lot of ways to directly counter is the turn order. Starting in the open and in close proximity means it's a coin flip if they can get out of that position before getting blasted

Without statics bonuses via feats, class features, or magical items the chances of reliably making saves dives into the dicey range fast. The DMG isn't good at explaining this part of the game at all. The difference the paladin made even with a so-so Cha made it shift to almost a medium encounter.

For example we just look at the sharp shooting champion fighter and gave it a plus three crossbow that means they would only need to roll 8s or higher to land SS attacks if they catch them without the ability to shield. That means they would have a good chance to carve 1/2 the lich's HP away per action And that's with the fighter that basically doesn't have a subclass.

[Asisreo1]

**NP. Guess meat stick will have to wait a day to get gated back unless the cleric can roll enough for divine intervention. Nope (31).

The wizard and cleric wasting the first few rounds definitely made this deadly for the party and SS is just easier to leverage thanks to archery and range.

The largest factor I see for this party that lacks a lot of ways to directly counter is the turn order. Starting in the open and in close proximity means it's a coin flip if they can get out of that position before getting blasted

Without statics bonuses via feats, class features, or magical items the chances of reliably making saves dives into the dicey range fast. The DMG isn't good at explaining this part of the game at all. The difference the paladin made even with a so-so Cha made it shift to almost a medium encounter.

For example we just look at the sharp shooting champion fighter and gave it a plus three crossbow that means they would only need to roll 8s or higher to land SS attacks if they catch them without the ability to shield. That means they would have a good chance to carve 1/2 the lich's HP away per action And that's with the fighter that basically doesn't have a subclass.

Yep. Personally, I also learned exactly what a lich's gimmick is over the course of the combats.

At first, I *was* married to the idea of "use PWK" at some point, but the setup takes too long unless I squeezed a few legendary actions and lair actions this turn. Liches are much better in round 1 and giving a party time to setup makes the game easier on them.

I very much agree that save-based bonuses really help with this fight in-particular, the lich just doesn't have amazing non-saving throw abilities and they all basically land with wisdom or constitution. And that the +# weapons boost the usability of SS and GWM.

Hmm...I'm tempted to play one more time, but this time I'll remove the additional restrictions such as "No resilient feats" or "no +#" items and have a party of not just PHB classes.

[stoutstien]

Yep. Personally, I also learned exactly what a lich's gimmick is over the course of the combats.

At first, I *was* married to the idea of "use PWK" at some point, but the setup takes too long unless I squeezed a few legendary actions and lair actions this turn. Liches are much better in round 1 and giving a party time to setup makes the game easier on them.

I very much agree that save-based bonuses really help with this fight in-particular, the lich just doesn't have amazing non-saving throw abilities and they all basically land with wisdom or constitution. And that the +# weapons boost the usability of SS and GWM.

Hmm...I'm tempted to play one more time, but this time I'll remove the additional restrictions such as "No resilient feats" or "no +#" items and have a party of not just PHB classes.

What level of tactical savvy?
On a scale of 1-10 the first group I did was about a 5 and the second one was a 3. Ill keep the cheese to the minimum.

**All this is good practice for me as we to think like a party of individuals rather than a DM. It's an interesting paradigm shift because I don't do blow by blow for my encounter planning unless it's something I think might be over tuned. **

[Asisreo1]

What level of tactical savvy?
On a scale of 1-10 the first group I did was about a 5 and the second one was a 3. Ill keep the cheese to the minimum.

**All this is good practice for me as we to think like a party of individuals rather than a DM. It's an interesting paradigm shift because I don't do blow by blow for my encounter planning unless it's something I think might be over tuned. **

You can be as tactical as you want. Really, I'd change up the arena since its actually not very conducive to the boss fight at-hand. But, I'll leave it as-is for now. If you're up for this last fight, I'll get to working on another one with a different enemy, or enemies depending on the situation.

The next fight, if there is one, will be a bit more tailored in a way that I would challenge a party when the goal is to, well, challenge the party.

[stoutstien]

You can be as tactical as you want. Really, I'd change up the arena since its actually not very conducive to the boss fight at-hand. But, I'll leave it as-is for now. If you're up for this last fight, I'll get to working on another one with a different enemy, or enemies depending on the situation.

The next fight, if there is one, will be a bit more tailored in a way that I would challenge a party when the goal is to, well, challenge the party.

Okay it might be a few days before I get a party whip together. I have my own session tonight and tomorrow the wife surprised me by signing us up for an adventure race. So I got to dig out my equipment to see if I can still read a compass.

[Asisreo1]

Okay it might be a few days before I get a party whip together. I have my own session tonight and tomorrow the wife surprised me by signing us up for an adventure race. So I got to dig out my equipment to see if I can still read a compass.

That's fine. If Frogreaver is still here, I'd like to make a fight with a different single-enemy deadly encounter. The creature will be RAW from the monster manual.

This time, I won't reveal what the creature is before the fight nor the conditions. This is to emulate building your characters as if they were made for a campaign rather than an adventure.

I will say that all options are as before open and you can choose any feats, multiclassing, source book (the main 3), and other optional things. You also get full, unrestricted access to one very rare magic item and two rare magic items.

The level of the characters can be level 17 this time. (Congrats, 9th-level spells).

Prebuffing can include a single instance of simulacra, but no cheese.

[Frogreaver]

Yep. Personally, I also learned exactly what a lich's gimmick is over the course of the combats.

At first, I *was* married to the idea of "use PWK" at some point, but the setup takes too long unless I squeezed a few legendary actions and lair actions this turn. Liches are much better in round 1 and giving a party time to setup makes the game easier on them.

I very much agree that save-based bonuses really help with this fight in-particular, the lich just doesn't have amazing non-saving throw abilities and they all basically land with wisdom or constitution. And that the +# weapons boost the usability of SS and GWM.

Hmm...I'm tempted to play one more time, but this time I'll remove the additional restrictions such as "No resilient feats" or "no +#" items and have a party of not just PHB classes.

I agree you've found the Lich's niche. Direct damage with some minor control seems to do well. I think PWK is to scare the heck out of lower level parties. It's a nice, if you don't have 100 hp this fight just got alot harder kind of thing.

I'll have to map out the party. May use the one I had before. Haven't decided yet. I refuse to use simulcarum though.

[Asisreo1]

I agree you've found the Lich's niche. Direct damage with some minor control seems to do well. I think PWK is to scare the heck out of lower level parties. It's a nice, if you don't have 100 hp this fight just got alot harder kind of thing.

I'll have to map out the party. May use the one I had before. Haven't decided yet. I refuse to use simulcarum though.

Yep. When you're all set, post the party on this thread.

I'll also note that I believe this next fight will be appropriately difficult compared to the Lich. The lich is a spellcaster with alot of spells and I, personally, dislike playing spellcasters in general aside from clerics and sorcerers. I think I was also at a playstyle disadvantage.