Best CR 10 galdiatorial challenge team or individual

[Galdor Miriel]

Hi all

a few friends and I plan a gladiatorial arena combat soon with the rules being, build any team you want that is CR 10. Using core books only, though I think it likely some of the complete books might be included. For wealth we will buy using the wealth guidelines. We will have one minute to buff.

I plan on playing with a tenth level abjurer. Not because I buy into all these aruments about Batman and Robin or whatever, but because I like playing wizards, they are fun, especially with the exploding fireball spells. If we get complete arcane I will take a level of seventh fold veil to make my protection spells harder to remove. My tactics will involve being hard to hit, and kicking ass with magic missile making for a long drawn out battle.

What would your most fun CR10 team or character be, and maybe what do you think would be the most effective/optimized core team build.

Galdor

[Dode]

Buff time?

Cleric of Kord (Strength & War domain) with Shock Trooper feat tree plz.

[Enzario]

Well, if you're going for an arena, then one of the best things to invest in is a brilliant energy weapon (unless someone is planning on being undead, which at CR 10 is only possible through libirs mortis... I think...). No armor bonus to AC? YES PLZ!

[Armads]

Druid 10.

Against ground opponents - Wildshape into a flyer, turn the ground into a sticky hell via Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Thorns, or Wall of Fire.

Against other flyers - Usually it will be a wizard, so nuke it with Baleful Polymorph and you'll probably kill it (but turn it into a hawk or the wizard will get a +4 bonus to it's save). If it's a cleric, try to dispel his buffs, and get your animal companion to absorb the cleric's melee attacks.

[Kizara]

Tell me if you expand it to allow complete warrior/divine/arcane/etc.

[Lord Tataraus]

Awww, I was going to suggest going Druid 10. You can get some really awesome companions such as the tiger and your control spells are very useful. Will you get to fully rest after each fight or not?

[ocato]

I agree with Druid 10. Buff up your pet (dire lion, maybe?) and yourself. Wind wall ends archers, and a buffed dire lion ends dumb casters/mediocre melee (intelligent/well made melee won't last against a buffed dire lion with you healing it, summoning more creatures, and periodically turning into a dire bear and eating their hearts, of course). You can probably out spell your average wizard/sorcerer with control winds to get them out of the sky and then flood them with some elementals, and or course lightning spells + your buffed up Dire Liono (THUNDER, THUNDER, THUNDER, THUNDERCATS, HO!) would make them hate life.

[tyckspoon]

A Colossal Animated Object or a nine-headed pyro/cryohydra.

... CR and Character Level aren't the same thing.

[Kizara]

A Colossal Animated Object or a nine-headed pyro/cryohydra.

... CR and Character Level aren't the same thing.

I'm going with a juvenille red dragon personally.

Be sure to get power attack and remember you can wear your equipment.

"For wealth we will buy using the wealth guidelines."

Dragon's "wealth guidelines" is "triple standard", which, for CR 10, is 51,000 (given, only 2k over 10th level character wealth by level).

[tyckspoon]

I'm going with a juvenille red dragon personally.

Be sure to get power attack and remember you can wear your equipment.

"For wealth we will buy using the wealth guidelines."

Dragon's "wealth guidelines" is "triple standard", which, for CR 10, is 51,000 (given, only 2k over 10th level character wealth by level).

I was skipping the Dragons as being perhaps too cheesy because they're known to be under-CR'd (although the Colossal Animated Object might have blown that already), but if we're doing dragons I would pick the Young Adult Brass for Frightful Presence. The Juvenile Silver would also be nice- DC 23 paralyzing secondary breath weapon, if you aren't certain of killing your opponent otherwise.

[Lord Tataraus]

Well if we're bringing dragons in to this, I'd go for a Juvenile Cobalt Dragon with a level of sorcerer or something. Who can pass up a breath weapon that deals force damage as well as bull-rushes everyone in a cone? How awesome is that?! And entangle 3/day is just icing on the cake. I just love the Ferrous Dragons! (DR356 by the way)

[Armads]

Wait.. it's CR 10?

Oh, Advanced Shadows with Rogue levels are one of the best. Your sneak attack deals Strength damage too, and creating spawn really helps. You should pick a up a ghost touch weapon, though, to whack other undead creatures if they run around. Remember, natural weapons treated as magic for purposes of overcoming DR DO NOT affect incorporeal creatures.

[tyckspoon]

Wait.. it's CR 10?

Oh, Advanced Shadows with Rogue levels are one of the best. Your sneak attack deals Strength damage too, and creating spawn really helps. You should pick a up a ghost touch weapon, though, to whack other undead creatures if they run around. Remember, natural weapons treated as magic for purposes of overcoming DR DO NOT affect incorporeal creatures.

Non-starter, I'm afraid. Strength is a non-ability for Shadows- they can't move anything, even if it is ghost touch. The sneak-attacking Strength damage is nice, tho (it might actually just be negative energy damage, like if you were to Sneak Attack with an Enervation.)

[Armads]

The sneak-attacking Strength damage is nice, though (it might actually just be negative energy damage, like if you were to Sneak Attack with an Enervation.)

Ability damage is counted as damage for sneak attack purposes. The reason why enervation deals negative energy damage is because Negative Levels are not Damage.

Strength is a non-ability for Shadows- they can't move anything, even if it is ghost touch.

Ghost Touch: A ghost touch weapon deals damage normally against incorporeal creatures, regardless of its bonus. (An incorporeal creature’s 50% chance to avoid damage does not apply to attacks with ghost touch weapons.) The weapon can be picked up and moved by an incorporeal creature at any time. A manifesting ghost can wield the weapon against corporeal foes. Essentially, a ghost touch weapon counts as either corporeal or incorporeal at any given time, whichever is more beneficial to the wielder.

So, yes, the shadow can swing a ghost touch weapon around.

[deadseashoals]

Non-starter, I'm afraid. Strength is a non-ability for Shadows- they can't move anything, even if it is ghost touch. The sneak-attacking Strength damage is nice, tho (it might actually just be negative energy damage, like if you were to Sneak Attack with an Enervation.)

It's negative energy damage. The way to abuse a shadow or anything of that sort would be to get it extra attacks somehow.

[Armads]

The Shadow's Hidden Power (from the WotC boards) explains the ways of killing stuff with the shadow.

The negative energy damage from enervation only applies to spells.

[squishycube]

Obviously, because when a monster uses it, its not overpowered!
Of course the errata that you can't do ability damage with sneak attack counts for attacks made by monsters as well! And even if the errata only specifically mentions spells, any sane DM will extend it to count for other sneak attack + ability damage combination.

[tyckspoon]

Ability damage is counted as damage for sneak attack purposes. The reason why enervation deals negative energy damage is because Negative Levels are not Damage.





So, yes, the shadow can swing a ghost touch weapon around.

Non-ability scores, Strength:

Any creature that can physically manipulate other objects has at least 1 point of Strength. A creature with no Strength score can’t exert force, usually because it has no physical body or because it doesn’t move. The creature automatically fails Strength checks. If the creature can attack, it applies its Dexterity modifier to its base attack bonus instead of a Strength modifier.

Doesn't matter whether or not a particular item can interact with incorporeal beings. Shadows can't move anything.

[deadseashoals]

The Shadow's Hidden Power (from the WotC boards) explains the ways of killing stuff with the shadow.

The negative energy damage from enervation only applies to spells.

After looking it up again, apparently it only applies to spells because in the only clarifications ever written about the topic, WotC decided to use the word "spell." Because apparently no attack besides a spell can ever deal ability damage as the primary source of damage Seems against the RAI, but it does work.

Edit: And is totally abusive, of course.

[Armads]

Non-ability scores, Strength:


Doesn't matter whether or not a particular item can interact with incorporeal beings. Shadows can't move anything.

Ghost touch weapons explicitly state that incorporeal creatures can wield the stuff. So it depends on which rule trumps which rule...

[Darkxarth]

Ghost touch weapons explicitly state that incorporeal creatures can wield the stuff. So it depends on which rule trumps which rule...

They can only wield it if they can exert the force to pick it up, which, with a Strength score of does-not-exist, they can't. It's not one rule trumping another, it's just that the Shadow can't move anything, corporeal or incorporeal.