Deathloop! If at first you don't succeed, die and die again.

[Fyraltari]

Deathloop is out!

I have been waiting for this game basically since I saw the trailers for Prey, and it was delayed twice, and it's finally here!

Deathloop is a mix of immersive sim and rogue-like by Arkane Lyon (of Dishonored fame) wherein you play an assassin, Colt, trapped in an island and a time-loop. Everybody there wants you dead (of course) and the only way to escape is to eliminate your eight targets before the clock strikes twelve and the loop resets. Fortunately the only people on the island who remember the previous loops are you... And one of your targets, Julianna who might be controlled by another player who is invading your game after escaping the island as Colt.

I am just done with the tutorial and my game crashed because of my slightly obsolete hardware (hopefully downloading new drivers will help somewhat).

I must say that I am impressed none of the trailers spoiled a story element that is presented almost immediately, namely,

Spoiler

Show

The existence of another Colt on the island. What's up with that? Can't wait to find out.

[Rynjin]

Had my eye on this for a while but sadly can't afford a new game right now; I didn't "pre-order" this over a year ago like I did Wrath of the Righteous.


Glad it seems to be really good though. I wasn't too worried because Arkane makes good ****, but there's always a chance for a titan to fall.

[Anteros]

It's getting blasted in reviews right now because the anti piracy software they bundled with it apparently kills performance.

The few people who can actually play the game seem to like it though.

[Fyraltari]

It's getting blasted in reviews right now because the anti piracy software they bundled with it apparently kills performance.

The few people who can actually play the game seem to like it though.

Yeah, apparently it works fine on console but on my PC, now that I am out of the tutorial area it just keeps crashing when I try to start the game. Really frustrating. I hope they patch these issues fast.

[Rodin]

I'm perversely glad, because my gaming backlog means I won't get to play this for a while. Hearing about launch issues makes me feel less bad. Look forward to playing this when I finally plow through all 3 Witcher games (so sometime in 2024 probably).

[Rynjin]

It's getting blasted in reviews right now because the anti piracy software they bundled with it apparently kills performance.

The few people who can actually play the game seem to like it though.

Lemme guess, Denuvo again? This **** happens every single time some dumbass decides to use it, and every single game ends up removing it.

[Fyraltari]

I'm perversely glad, because my gaming backlog means I won't get to play this for a while. Hearing about launch issues makes me feel less bad. Look forward to playing this when I finally plow through all 3 Witcher games (so sometime in 2024 probably).

Well, that's just mean.

Lemme guess, Denuvo again?

Correct.

[Psyren]

And one of your targets, Julianna who might be controlled by another player who is invading your game after escaping the island as Colt.

Thanks for the warning, offline play or bust.

(I just do not get devs who like the forced pvp thing.)

[Fyraltari]

Thanks for the warning, offline play or bust.

(I just do not get devs who like the forced pvp thing.)

I know there were talk of it having three settings : AI, anybody connected or anybody from your friend list connected.

There were also talks of not allowing tje players to communicate both to avoid trolling ans for immersion. Having Julianna human-controlled allows for her to be truly unpredictable but the player is still supposed to be playing her role.

[Psyren]

If those settings aren't in-game and can't be modded, Airplane mode ftw.

And if it forces you to be online, I'll definitely pass until one of the above is true.

I wouldn't want Hades to have any PvP elements either.

[Amechra]

(I just do not get devs who like the forced pvp thing.)

It's because the Souls series did it and the Souls series is popular.

[Psyren]

It's because the Souls series did it and the Souls series is popular.

1) That's balanced out by the ability to get PvE help on the tougher bosses, which doesn't appear to be the case here.
2) I unplug the interwebs there too.

[Fyraltari]

Well turns out my pc doesn't meet the required specs. I've asked for a refund but I am frankly puzzled why I could still play the starting area.

[Gecks]

I LOVE Deathloop. Love the world-building, love being able to go into a big map with just one, simple mission to accomplish, not feeling the need to 100% it before moving on because I can always loop again and check the rest out latter. Love the voice-acting, the complex relationships, the witty banter, and the style of humour.

I feel like this game might not be for everyone- it is similar to the Dishonored games in a lot of ways, but is best enjoyed approached with a very different attitude and playstyle- but I've enjoyed it a lot more than I enjoyed a new game in a long time.

[Rodin]

It's because the Souls series did it and the Souls series is popular.

Which is ironic, because the Souls games have been limiting it more and more heavily. Bloodborne only had forced PvP in a handful of areas, and then only until you killed a particular non-respawning enemy. Darks Souls 3 only allowed invasions if you were Embered, meaning you could disable PvP by simply not Embering. I typically would explore an area in non-Embered mode and then Ember up for the boss run. Sekiro was purely single-player and Eldan Ring will only allow invasions if you are cooping, which will likely kill off griefing almost entirely.

In this particular case my interest depends on how its implemented. If levels are a thing and opponents can grief you by being hilariously stronger than you (common in Souls games), then I'm entirely uninterested. If it's purely skill-based and there's a limit on invasions then I won't have a problem with it.

Still, it irks me when developers decide their will matters more than the player's fun. There should always be a toggle for PvP, no matter what the game.

[Rynjin]

Darks Souls 3 only allowed invasions if you were Embered, meaning you could disable PvP by simply not Embering.

Same with Dark Souls 2; you need to not be Hollowed to be invaded (or co-op). Also like Dark Souls 2, there is a single forced PvP boss in both games. Mirror Knight in Dark Souls 2, and Halflight, Spear of the Church in 3 (Ringed City DLC only).

In this particular case my interest depends on how its implemented. If levels are a thing and opponents can grief you by being hilariously stronger than you (common in Souls games), then I'm entirely uninterested. If it's purely skill-based and there's a limit on invasions then I won't have a problem with it.

Levels have never really been a problem because all of the games (except maybe DS1? I played little of it) have some kind of level locking. Dark Souls 2 had Soul Memory, which gutted co-op as well unless you coordinated closely with a partner, but largely keeps people from bothering you unless you want them to (you could actually just grind souls while Hollowed until your Soul memory was too high for the average PvPer; you didn't even need to spend them, just collect over time) and DS3 has some kind of algorithm that looks both at enemy level compared to yours AND the level of enhancement their gear has. It's something like having a +3 or higher weapon locks you out of invading anyone below level 50 or some such.

...The only real issue is the Dark Hand was busted in low level PvP since it dealt flat damage with little scaling and could oneshot most low level players regardless of stats, making it the troll option of choice. It "helped" that when you killed someone there was a LENGTHY animation involved too.

I think From did that **** on purpose because it drops from the enemy that gives you the Red Eye Orb to invade with.

[Psyren]

Still, it irks me when developers decide their will matters more than the player's fun. There should always be a toggle for PvP, no matter what the game.

Yes.

In this particular case my interest depends on how its implemented. If levels are a thing and opponents can grief you by being hilariously stronger than you (common in Souls games), then I'm entirely uninterested. If it's purely skill-based and there's a limit on invasions then I won't have a problem with it.

I really don't care if it's "skill-based" - for any offline or partially-offline game, cheating is going to be possible no matter how vigilant the devs are. And even if they stamp that out entirely, the fact is that roguelikes are challenging enough in single-player without adding in an enemy without learnable patterns and who will likely BM me if/when they win.

[Amechra]

I think From did that **** on purpose because it drops from the enemy that gives you the Red Eye Orb to invade with.

Could be worse — in Demons Souls, there is literally a spell that delevels your target (it has a legitimate, non-PvP use — it one-shots most non-bosses and gives you double souls). A determined and cruel invader could theoretically undo almost all of your grinding without actually killing you.

In the game's defense, it has a long wind-up time and a very short range, so it's almost impossible to land on an actual player. But still.

...

For people who have played Deathloop, how tight is the actual loop in terms of game-time? Like, if you found a safe place to hide, how long would you have to wait before everything reset?

Also, when you say that the game has "roguelike" elements... is the island actually random? Or is it like Prey: Mooncrash, where there's a single map that gets warped and changed between runs?

[Rynjin]

I haven't played it, but I can answer the second question at least. Nothing is random, it's only roguelike in the sense that progression isn't saved between loops. Using phlebotinum, you can retain some powers and weapons between loops, but everything else resets.

[DeTess]

For people who have played Deathloop, how tight is the actual loop in terms of game-time? Like, if you found a safe place to hide, how long would you have to wait before everything reset?

From what I understood from interviews (haven't played it yet), there isn't really a timer that ticks down to the next loop. Rather, there's a number of areas and time progresses when you move to a different one.

[Gecks]

Could be worse — in Demons Souls, there is literally a spell that delevels your target (it has a legitimate, non-PvP use — it one-shots most non-bosses and gives you double souls).
For people who have played Deathloop, how tight is the actual loop in terms of game-time? Like, if you found a safe place to hide, how long would you have to wait before everything reset?

Also, when you say that the game has "roguelike" elements... is the island actually random? Or is it like Prey: Mooncrash, where there's a single map that gets warped and changed between runs?

Have played, can confirm the two answers above- time doesn't progress while in map, advances when you leave the map and enter a planning phase where you choice the next location to go to- each day has 4 time chunks- morning, noon, afternoon, and evening, after which time loops back. Actions you take earlier in the day can change the state of the game later in the day- for example, if you see an enemy digging a hole in a wall, if you kill them, there won't be a hole in that wall in later time states. You can freely skip to a later timeframe or loop back to the next morning during the planning phase.

The island is very specifically not random- since none of the NPCs remember the previous loop, they all follow the same routine each day unless you do something to change it- part of the gameplay loop is learning each of the 4 maps in each time state, and using the knowledge to improve outcomes (ex. When I was here yesterday morning, I didn't see the dude on the roof and got rocked when he threw a grenade down at me- better teleport up their first and handle him before I try to clear the area this loop). There is some randomization in that the generic NPCs get slowly better (in terms of equipment and AI) over successive loops, and the gear they drop seems randomized, but the most important items are in the same place every loop. One of the things I like about this game is that if you mess up a plan or miss getting an important item, you can always try again next loop.

Also worth mentioning since there was some discussion about it earlier, the PVP aspect is completely optional- it defaults to on, but a few clicks of the mouse can change it to "friends only" or "off". An AI hunter opponent will still "invade" from time to time to keep the unexpected wildcard tension in the game (and to make sure the story still makes sense), but you don't need to fight other players if you don't want to. I turned PVP off, and the game seems balanced fine to me without it, and I am having a great time.

[GloatingSwine]

Could be worse — in Demons Souls, there is literally a spell that delevels your target (it has a legitimate, non-PvP use — it one-shots most non-bosses and gives you double souls). A determined and cruel invader could theoretically undo almost all of your grinding without actually killing you.

Don't think of Soulsucker as being delevelled think of it as a respec you didn't know you wanted. (The final boss uses it and some people do go as far as to get hit with it over and over again so they can respec their character)

[Amechra]

Nothing is random, it's only roguelike in the sense that progression isn't saved between loops.

Ugh.

That's not what a roguelike is, and I hate that game devs and the general gaming population have A) co-opted a term that refers to a very specific style of niche games and B) broadened it to an extent that makes the term completely useless. It's like saying that Super Mario Bros has "metroidvania elements" because you jump around and can find power-ups that grant you access to places you couldn't get to otherwise. While that's technically accurate, it's also pretty misleading.

/rant

[Rynjin]

It's not all that different from other Roguelites out there. Static challenges, dynamic progression.

Complete randomness isn't a necessity for a roguelike, unless you'd like to argue that ADOM isn't roguelike, and the roguelite genre is even looser in that regard.

I wouldn't necessarily describe the game as a roguelike, or even -lite, myself but it's close enough in some aspects that I can say if someone does enjoy roguelites, and is also a fan of FPS games, they'd probably like this.

[Amechra]

I also consider "roguelite" to be a misleading term.

Basically, the idea of a "roguelike" that has any progression outside of "you learned what you did wrong last time, and you don't do that next time" just feels like it's rejecting the core design ethos of the genre to me. The whole reason why you have dynamic challenges and perma-death is so that you have to achieve system mastery to win.

I'm aware that I'm just shouting at clouds about this, but this is, like, the one video-game-related topic that I have strong feelings about. Please, let me indulge in my video-game-related masochism.

[Psyren]

I'm much more in the roguelite column myself - give me that permanent progression between runs (however incremental). Hades and Slay The Spire are great examples of this.

I agree that the challenges remaining static isn't rogue-y at all. That means pattern-memorization plays as much a role as mechanical mastery if not more.

[Anteros]

I didn't think I would like this game, but the aesthetic is good and the voice acting is AMAZING. Whoever voices Cole really did a great job.