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Thread: What IS the War Wizard?
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2021-09-14, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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What IS the War Wizard?
The Wizard has an absolute ton of subclasses.
One for each magical school, then some extras the fill in holes. Scribes for versatility, Bladesinger for the Wizard who wants to attack, etc.
Well... if the Bladesinger exists for the Wizard who wants to hit things... then what exactly is the War Wizard for?
What hole does it fill? Who is this for?
I do not think it's at all a bad subclass. But... Why does it exist? What empty hole in the Wizard list does this fill?Last edited by jaappleton; 2021-09-14 at 01:53 PM.
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2021-09-14, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
I see War Wizard as the defensive Wizard. It's always ready to do what is needed to counter the bad guy.
Pronouns he/him/his
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● IV-Pinball Wizard
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2021-09-14, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
I've always viewed it as the wizard who went to a college that specifically prepared wizards to fight in the military. The War Wizards of Cormyr, for a FR example. Basically snatching the Warmage (from 3.5E) base class's fluff wholesale.
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2021-09-14, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
A variety of arcane colleges specialize in training wizards for war. The tradition of War Magic blends principles of evocation and abjuration, rather than specializing in either of those schools. It teaches techniques that empower a caster’s spells, while also providing methods for wizards to bolster their own defenses.
Followers of this tradition are known as war mages. They see their magic as both a weapon and armor, a resource superior to any piece of steel. War mages act fast in battle, using their spells to seize tactical control of a situation. Their spells strike hard, while their defensive skills foil their opponents’ attempts to counterattack. War mages are also adept at turning other spellcasters' magical energy against them.
In great battles, a war mage often works with evokers, abjurers, and other types of wizards. Evokers, in particular, sometimes tease war mages for splitting their attention between offense and defense. A war mage's typical response: "What good is being able to throw a mighty Fireball if I die before I can cast it?"
Thematically they're the wizards that end usually end up in armies, probably ones trained specifically by a nation's military, which explains why Arcane Deflection has no use limit (they're intended to be able to go all day, rather than relying on spellslots), why they're defensive (Arcane Deflection+Durable Magic) and why they have a counterspell/dispel magic aspect (enemy war wizards).
If I'm playing a wizard that happens to have the Soldier background, thenI'll play a Chronurgist those guys are overpoweredI'll probably be eyeing a war mage as my subclass.
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2021-09-14, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
They needed to print more wizard subclasses for parity across more releases but started with a paradigm that gave them limited options.
In fluff War Wizards are wizards focused on the practice of using magic for war rather than the theory of a specific school of magic. Electrical Engineers rather than Physicists
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2021-09-14, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-09-14, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
It's a wizard that's good at dueling other wizards. Acts faster, has better saves and AC, can do (pretty much insignificantly) better damage after countering magic.
It's Eberron, not ebberon.
It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.
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2021-09-14, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
Pronouns he/him/his
5e Homebrew Subclass Creation Guide - PEACH | Extended Homebrew Post
My Dungeon Master's Guild Entries, Pay What you want
Spoiler: 5e Subclass Contest Wins
● IV-Pinball Wizard
● VI-Luchador Bard
● XIII-Rogue, Tavern Wench
● XV-Monk, Way of the Shrine Guardian
● XVI-Cleric, Madness Domain
● XVIII-Fighter, Chef
● XXI-Artificer, Battling Bowman
● XXV-Ley Line Sorcerer
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2021-09-14, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
This might be my hang up.
The level 6 ability seems really out of place to me. The level two abilities and the tenth level, great. I see how that all works, it's cohesive, and I find it all thematic.
The 6th level ability seems random and out of place, like it doesn't belong. IMO it's very disjointed from the rest of the subclass.Avatar courteously cleaned up by thoroughlyS
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2021-09-14, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
Yeah, this was my idea as well. Other wizards learn their craft in fancy colleges and dusty libraries - war wizards learn from mercenary companies and paramilitary outfits whose whole schtick is "We use magic to win battles for people."
Granted, this is more of a D&D trope than a universal fantasy trope, but I think it quasi-works. My beef is that their mechanic of "stealing" magic from enemies' spells to fuel their own feels like it should be more of a sorcerer thing than a wizard thing, since sorcerers are supposed to have this intuitive grasp of raw magical energy while wizards are more about spells and spellmanship, but that feels like a debate for another thread.
If their spellstealing abilities were tagged out for things that felt more ruggedly militaristic, I'd probably enjoy them more.
Edit: And after I posted this, I discovered we agree, ha ha. So what should go in their 6th level ability instead, is the question.Last edited by Abracadangit; 2021-09-14 at 02:00 PM.
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2021-09-14, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-09-14, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
I'd love to see the 6th level ability refresh a spell slot when you successfully counterspell or dispel. Emphasize their endurance at the same time as they have more reasons to specifically counter opposing spellcasters. Maybe recover an expended slot of at least 1 level lower than the slot used to counterspell/dispel.
Dunno, just throwing out ideas off of the top of my head.
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2021-09-14, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
Thematically it's what others have said, a wizard who hones practical combat skills instead of being more theory oriented, and who doesn't have an affinity towards a particular school of magic.
Mechanically, I think it's supposed to be one that flows smoothly from defense to offense. The level 6 and 14 abilities give you a damage boost when you performa defensive action and the Level 10 ability improves your defenses while concentrating on a spell. That said, Power Surge doesn't feel very impactful, particularly at low levels. You're supposed to feel like Dumbledore turning Voldemort's spells back on him but instead you're causing a little extra sting.
I'd add a line to Power Surge saying that if the target needs to make a Concentration Save upon taking the damage, it has disadvantage on that save. Really sell the idea of flinging a spell back in a caster's face.
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2021-09-14, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
I always kinda view them as “Magic Support” for frontline armies. Hitting enemy forces fast with control spells to break lines or to counter enemy mages by striking first or dispelling their forces then striking hard with a direct HP attack.
Last time I played one, that was how I role played it. A soldier wizard who stands alongside his brothers in arms and paves the way to victory.
Inspiration would be straight from the Wizards in the Black Company novel series like Goblin and One-Eye.
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2021-09-14, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
Black Company is a great example. To be fair, I really do like the class' 2nd-level ability. It feels like the wizard equivalent of (the dramatically embellished image of) George Washington walking across a battlefield as musket balls whiz by, not fazed in the slightest, shouting out orders. Like a war wizard is so used to enemy fire that they routinely activate their mini-deflector shield to knock errant crossbow bolts out of midair, while they move.
The problem with their 6th level ability isn't just the aforementioned -- it also feels like something a professional mageduelist would have specifically for fighting OTHER mages, instead of on a battlefield. Maybe if their 6th level ability was some kind of passive boost to evocation and/or abjuration spells?
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2021-09-14, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
Seconded on a great example.
I imagine the drawing board inspiration for 6 was less about mage duels than if one side has battle wizards the other probably does to. I actually don't hate it being a dispel/counter ability for the reason of preventing another war mage from debuffing/AOEing your company. I'd be much happier if it provided an instant benefit than a resource to be spent later in that narrative.
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2021-09-15, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
I can see the reasoning for Power Surge being to add extra oomph to your cantrips after you use Arcane Deflection. But yeah, it feels weirdly out of place.
It's Eberron, not ebberon.
It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.
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2021-09-15, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
How much do you think the damage should be buffed by? Just fully equal to your Wizard level is my thought. Otherwise it would be nice if you didn't just do more damage with it. If you could use it to boost any spell it might be nice. Maybe it's too much, but using it to boost spells as if casting from higher slots comes to mind. You'd need a limit on times per long rest though.
Last edited by Luccan; 2021-09-15 at 12:33 AM.
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2021-09-15, 01:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
It's Eberron, not ebberon.
It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.
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2021-09-15, 03:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: What IS the War Wizard?
War Wizard is the win wizard, both thematically and mechanically. "What's that? The typical pitfalls of a wizard? Naaaah doesn't sound like my type of thing." Basically what abjuration was trying to do but doesn't quite hit (especially if you say that the barrier still procs concentration checks).
One per short rest if you have none as well, which is nice.
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2021-09-15, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
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2021-09-15, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
It only exists because we needed an allitterative Wizard subclass.
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2021-09-15, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
I'm not sure it needs to be replaced. As mentioned in the thread, the War Wizard can give the idea that:
As a DM, I can confidently say that a well-optimized Wizard is probably the biggest game-changer in the party. Moon Druids, Barbarians, Samurai Fighters, those all solve specific problems in a very straightforward way, but they don't have any extra solutions against debilitating effects or needing to run away. When you need a bridge, a teleport, a Fireball, or Featherfall, the Wizard is there to make those plays happen.
So, in essence, a well-prepared Wizard is the most dangerous tool in your arsenal. Someone who's an expert at war would recognize this and plan accordingly, so it makes sense that the "Wizard trained for war" would be an expert at dealing with war-mages like himself. Counterspell is mechanically one of the best spells in the game (Enemy spends an Action, you spend a Reaction and you get your Action), the issue being that it's niche and doesn't come up too often. Personally, though, I'd consider it a good day when a Counterspell isn't needed, as you'll probably know what to expect when a big thing tries to maul you, but you're going to have a bad time when a Wizard casts Cloudkill while you're surrounded by his undead.
I do think the counterspell buffs aren't great, but you're already a Wizard with no weaknesses so it's not like you don't have enough going for you if you decide to take it to 20. My complaint is that it's boring, but I doubt anyone would say it's weak.Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2021-09-15 at 10:23 AM.
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2021-09-15, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
But war isn't about dueling. You're more likely to get into a wizard duel in any combat situation other than war. If you want to be a wizard specifically for war, then you shouldn't be specializing in fighting wizards; you should be specializing in fighting armies.
It only makes sense if you take "war" as a synonym for "combat", and, well, that's all PC wizards. And all PC fighters and all PC clerics and all PC warlocks and all PC monks and...Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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2021-09-15, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
On the contrary, Fireball would decimate a whole lot of soldiers faster and more efficiently than a dozen soldiers would. 2 Fireballs over 12 seconds is even more impressive. Wizards are like the equivalent of stealth bombers. As long as you keep them alive, they are easy wins.
It's no coincidence that most of warfare has evolved from learning how to attack without getting attacked back, and a Wizard with high initiative is really good at hurting you.Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2021-09-15 at 04:48 PM.
5th Edition Homebrewery
Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!
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2021-09-15, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
Overall, I agree, especially for D&D.
With that said, there's the alternative portrayal in some fiction where, in typical circumstances, the job of spellcasters is to neutralise other spellcasters and the net result is that magic is cancelled out if both sides' spellcasters do their job. So magic gives big tugs to the short-term tug of war in those cases, but it washes itself out overall if both sides have magic.
Not that I'd say it's necessarily going to play out this way in game, but the idea is that a war wizard could be engaging in a "magic vs. magic duel" as their role in war if that's the kind of fiction you want to duplicate.
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2021-09-15, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
The War Wizard is one of the mages in an army that stands on the battlefield and acts as artillery, battlefield control, and a bunker. The main hole the War Wizard fills, is the Wizard that is not afraid of being attacked. In War you will be attacked if you are standing out in the open. They act as a force multiplier for the other units around them.
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2021-09-15, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-09-16, 01:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
There is still slightly one problem about the whole dispel/counter spell feature. Most “war”like spells like fireball are cast at a much greater distance then what counterspell can work. So the feature really doesn’t work well in a battlefield environment.
Now if the feature allow the use counterspell when a spell effect is within counterspell’s range, then maybe a useful feature.
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2021-09-16, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What IS the War Wizard?
The band known as the Temptations asked this same question:
War! (Wizard), huh,
What is it good for?
Their answer was:
SpoilerAbsolutely, nothing, say it again
The Temptations as an Adventuring band preferred the Peace Cleric.🃏Last edited by Thunderous Mojo; 2021-09-16 at 09:50 AM.