A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    strangebloke's Avatar

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    Jun 2012

    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hael View Post
    Yes, I think their design space should include being able to be a highend puncher, as well as all the other things they can do. Take the fighter example in T1. The unarmed style battlemaster with grappling maneuver is exactly the type of cool mechanic that the monk class should natively have. The ability to simultaneously grapple, do damage, and hit hard all the while having lots of attacks.
    I mean all you're really saying now is that there should be a subclass focused on grappling beside the Astral monk, which... yeah, sure! Sounds good. IMO the drunken master is a severe disappointment in this regard. But its not a critique of the base class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hael View Post
    I don't disagree with that. However I don't think that makes your case. Monks are likely the hardest martial to play in the entire game, and require a great deal of positional awareness and even metagaming knowledge. Meanwhile most other classes are much more forgiving. I would venture to guess that 90% of TPKs that I have seen in 5e have come as a direct result of monk players (usually new) who overextend themselves and get killed. And like it or not, a lot of people play the class as a puncher, which is why the reality of the situation strikes me as particularly bad design.

    On the contrary, it's really only at the 'ceiling' of play and builds where monks start to be effective IMO.
    My above example was a dead simple kensei using completely boilerplate abilities with some measure of efficiency and it dealt 3/4 the damage of the BM sharpshooter at the same level. Its nowhere near the 'ceiling.'

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Rynjin's Avatar

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    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    My one foray into 5e homebrew was a wrestling focused Monk, based around the Shooto Style of Japanese pro wrestling. I actually intended to respec the Open Hand Monk I've been talking about into it if the GM allowed it (they did not).

  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Tanarii's Avatar

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    Sep 2015

    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hael View Post
    I would venture to guess that 90% of TPKs that I have seen in 5e have come as a direct result of monk players (usually new) who overextend themselves and get killed.
    Most of the TPKs I've seen have been a party too heavy on long rest casters running out gas near the end of a session.

    But yeah, I've seen more than a few T1 monks that didn't start with AC 16 get pasted. But I've seen more often for Rogues, who might start with as low as AC 13 in standard array. And plenty of times for Bards, Warlocks, Sorcerers and Wizards. Even when those last are trying to play keep away, they're a lot more fragile than a Monk.

  4. - Top - End - #304
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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Sep 2010

    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    Jeez, that list of "fixes" makes me think this trentmonkguy could just make a new class instead.

  5. - Top - End - #305
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Sep 2019

    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    If people are looking for a "monk" feat to offset GWM/PAM/SS/CBE then one option would be something like "When you take the attack action you make one additional attack. This attack must be an unarmed attack and is made at disadvantage."

    It's useful for all martials so its not strictly a monk feat but monks probably get the most out of it. Races with unarmed attacks would also get a nice boost and help highlight their otherwise useless ability.
    Last edited by Sorinth; 2021-09-25 at 02:17 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #306
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    DruidGuy

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    May 2019

    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
    If people are looking for a "monk" feat to offset GWM/PAM/SS/CBE then one option would be something like "When you take the attack action you make one additional attack. This attack must be an unarmed attack and is made at disadvantage."

    It's useful for all martials so its not strictly a monk feat but monks probably get the most out of it. Races with unarmed attacks would also get a nice boost and help highlight their otherwise useless ability. Only concern would really be Beast barbarian.
    The Beast Barbarian doesn't make unarmed attacks, it makes normal attacks using weapons that are part of their body.
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  7. - Top - End - #307
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dork_Forge View Post
    The Beast Barbarian doesn't make unarmed attacks, it makes normal attacks using weapons that are part of their body.
    Right you are.

  8. - Top - End - #308
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    DrowGirl

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    Aug 2021

    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Segev View Post
    As written, it only lets you make one attack bonus action and one non-attack bonus action, so it already prevents doubling up on the same bonus action, I think.
    Should make it apply to reactions as well if you don't want the monk doubling up attacks as it would allow two opportunity attacks in a turn.

    Allowing the same bonus action would allow a monk to triple its already increased movement via using Step of the Wind twice. Probably not too game-breaking since the monk is still limited to two attacks doing this. The most powerful thing about it I see is allowing the monk to get all their attacks in and using the extra BA to dodge.

  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolwise View Post
    Should make it apply to reactions as well if you don't want the monk doubling up attacks as it would allow two opportunity attacks in a turn.

    Allowing the same bonus action would allow a monk to triple its already increased movement via using Step of the Wind twice. Probably not too game-breaking since the monk is still limited to two attacks doing this. The most powerful thing about it I see is allowing the monk to get all their attacks in and using the extra BA to dodge.
    I actually have little issue with this feat giving you a pseudo Combat Reflexes. Heck, I could possibly NAME it that. I might add some wording to prevent more than one OA per provocation, but I think most people would understand that to be implied.

  10. - Top - End - #310
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Sep 2019

    Default Re: Is Treantmonk's homebrew "fixed" Monk overtuned?

    By the way if people want a monk that can protect the back line an Open Hand monk with the Slasher feat can lockdown one opponent as good or better then other tanks.

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