A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Today, I present a new challenge:

    Your character is cursed. Any object they touch with their hands instantly disintegrates. (OK, takes 2d12 untyped damage, bypassing hardness each touch / round.) They can't damage living creatures (directly, like casting Fireball), nor can they summon living creatures.
    All numbers from (De)buff effects created by your character are reduced by 1/2, rounded down.

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    Given this curse, what class/race do you play, and how do you contribute to combat, and avoid accidentally touching things in a night at the pub, while still partaking in the activities (including sleeping in a bed).
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    This reminds me of a Vow of Poverty and Vow of Nonviolence without the benefits :D

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    Planetar

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    They can't damage living creatures (directly, like casting Fireball), nor can they summon living creatures.
    All numbers from (De)buff effects created by your character are reduced by 1/2, rounded down.
    Hello Necropolitan Necromancer. I can't summon living creatures, so the undead should be just fine by RAW. Also, don't have to pick up stuff to eat or drink anymore. Eschew Materials, no need to worry about spell components disintegrating if I don't need them.

    Retributive spells and/or effects out the wazoo. This could be fun.

    Any object they touch with their hands instantly disintegrates. (OK, takes 2d12 untyped damage, bypassing hardness each touch / round.)
    So, I grapple or disarm stuff. Touch presumably means touch attacks for everything, cool. Melt people's clothes, magic items, armour, etc etc. I can still strike things with my butt normally since only objects touched with my hands disintegrate. I can still impose status conditions since no damage is done, only penalties, i.e. fear blasting still works just fine.

    EDIT: Also, can still attack normally with Monk Unarmed Strike, since the monk can use any part of his body to hit things, not just the hands. Stunning imposes a condition, it doesn't do damage.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    I mean, mainly, I'm going to make a fortune building tunnels through mountain chains with my hands

    There was this 3.0 prestige class that coulndn't use magical items, but got buffs in exchange... anyone remember what it was? There has to be a way to mix that with Vow of Poverty.

    Now, if we can't do damage, we need to focus on buffing and debuffing. No way around it, really. Half duration sucks, but still better than nothing. Cleric or Bard, probably.

    Also, other uses for magic disintegrate hands: with a permissive DM, sunder enemy weapons and magic items in a grapple. Sink ships with a touch. Garbage removal. Destroying evidence. Hope your DM doesn't get creative and have you sink into the ground.
    Last edited by Eldan; 2021-09-20 at 03:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Hope your DM doesn't get creative and have you sink into the ground.
    RAW says hands only cause disintegration, so just make sure you lie back on your elbows and not your palms.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Oh yeah. Read that as whole body for some reason.
    "In dark times, should the stars also go out?"

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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    There was this 3.0 prestige class that coulndn't use magical items, but got buffs in exchange... anyone remember what it was? There has to be a way to mix that with Vow of Poverty.
    I believe you're talking about the Forsaker. It doesn't quite work since the Forsaker needs to destroy magic items while Vow of Poverty requires a character to give their stuff away.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Easy; A Necromancer.

    I summon Undead things (non-living), and use them to attack stuff. I Don't directly cause damage, rather than debuff my enemies. Pretty standard Necromancer play I must say.

    "Summon a Strong Monster, and you're good for an encounter. Learn how to Planar Bind a Strong Monster, and you'll never have to worry about an encounter for the rest of your Adventuring Days."

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by pabelfly View Post
    I believe you're talking about the Forsaker. It doesn't quite work since the Forsaker needs to destroy magic items while Vow of Poverty requires a character to give their stuff away.
    Forsaker was never supposed to destroy their own stuff. Just Sunder the enemy's loot
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!


    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Three suggestions from me. All three have Vow of Poverty - you have the worst drawbacks, might as well get the benefits. Unfortunately, there are not many feats with Vow of Poverty.

    1) Unarmed Swordsage - decent chassis and scaling manoeuvres, simple build concept, help you keep up with damage even without items, etc at higher levels
    2) Psion - easiest way to be a caster since there aren't spell pouches, etc to worry about
    3) Ranger 14/Scout 4/Stalker of Kharash 2 - this will give you something to spend all your bonus VoP feats on - the Nemesis feat does extra damage against Favored Enemies and lets you sense enemies up to 60ft away, even if they're invisible or behind walls, etc. You can also get Favored Enemy: Arcane and Favored Enemy: Evil, which should cover a lot of potential enemies you'll have to deal with. Swift Hunter lets you use Favored Enemy to do Skirmish Damage against enemies you'd normally have problems with, like Oozes, Plants, Undead, etc. You'll have to see how your DM will adjudicate unarmed attacks with this to get multiple punches off with unarmed TWF though; this isn't going to be a great build if you can't do multiple unarmed attacks.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    Forsaker was never supposed to destroy their own stuff. Just Sunder the enemy's loot
    Their damage reduction class feature requires them to destroy loot, which I'd opine doesn't mesh with the Vow of Poverty. There's also the issue that a Forsaker struggles to get the benefits of spells cast on them that a Vow of Poverty build could have the benefit of. I suppose there's some synergy, but it really feels like a trap since you're losing out on ten class levels that could be helping you do more damage or giving you abilities to function in combat that Forsaker doesn't seem to do.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Alchemist with tentacle discovery(ies). Live a mostly normal life - I may even get one or both hands amputated if they're truly causing issues.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by pabelfly View Post
    Their damage reduction class feature requires them to destroy loot, which I'd opine doesn't mesh with the Vow of Poverty. There's also the issue that a Forsaker struggles to get the benefits of spells cast on them that a Vow of Poverty build could have the benefit of. I suppose there's some synergy, but it really feels like a trap since you're losing out on ten class levels that could be helping you do more damage or giving you abilities to function in combat that Forsaker doesn't seem to do.
    That's not 10 levels. It's one or two, three at most. In 3.0 the higher levels served to make your damage reduction increasingly difficult to bypass, but since it all converts to DR/magic in 3.5, it becomes largely useless. The first level ability, however, gives you SR 11 that stacks with any other source. Just that is probably worth taking the class on this character.

    My proposition is anything large or Goliath, with Vow of Poverty/Vow of non-violence (you lose nothing since these vows are already included in your curse, so might as well use them), then Incarnate 3 and the rest of your levels as a Totemist, with one level of Forsaker. Soulmelds are not technically magic items, and do not break a Forsaker's vow, but they take up item slots when bound and give you benefits on par with a lot of magic items. Also, nothing in the Incarnate description says that Chakra Binds, increased Incarnum Capacity and essentia reserve do not stack. So you get the whole Totemist list, with the increased essentia of the incarnate, and you can combine both. Notably, one Incarnate soulmeld gives you Spell Resistance, which makes you nigh-invulnerable to anything that allows SR by level 7 (if you use all your three first feats for Forsaker). Then, you can probably go the grappling way, or some other thing that doesn't involve damage. For that, the Totemist soulmelds help a lot (and by that, understand Girallon's arms). And since your soulmelds are visible, you're not even walking naked in the street! Progress!!
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!


    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Could you not wear Riverine Gauntlets to make sure you can touch stuff? Riverine is immune to all hit point damage, so 2d12 untyped damage bypassing hardness is no problem.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khatoblepas View Post
    Could you not wear Riverine Gauntlets to make sure you can touch stuff? Riverine is immune to all hit point damage, so 2d12 untyped damage bypassing hardness is no problem.
    Since it seems to be based on disintegrate‚ it would bypass the riverin invulnerability. That‚ and riverin is rigid‚ you wouldn't be able to use your hand to wield things if you can't bend fingers.

    But yeah‚ cutting your own hands and using something like prehensile tail or a graft might work‚ but I don't really think that's the spirit of the challenge
    Trying to resurrect the Negative LA thread, any comment and discussion are very welcome!


    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    I mean, this challenge seems built for a VoP Incarnate. Soulmelds, even when bound to a chakra, aren't actually items (and even forbid wearing items that occupy the same slot), so there's actually some synergy there.

    You can argue that a soulspark familiar isn't actually alive, but even if you can't, you're basically the ultimate skillmonkey. Sprinkle in some rogue levels to help keep your skill bases high and go to town.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beni-Kujaku View Post
    But yeah‚ cutting your own hands and using something like prehensile tail or a graft might work‚ but I don't really think that's the spirit of the challenge
    I don't have to cut my hands off, I can just keep them in my armpits while tentacles/grafts do all the manipulation work. As long as they only touch me, I won't have to worry about sleeping, property damage etc.

    I picked alchemist with tentacle since that is available as early as level 2, as opposed to a graft which would be expensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    St. Bertold would probably not care all that much about the "can't damage directly" part of the curse. "Whatever 3" could be Monk, and the Prestige Class at the end could be Sacred Fist. (Tattoo of a Holy Symbol).

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    How does this affect constructs, including intelligent items? Psicrystals? Astral constructs? Animated objects? Undead? Golems?

    And would a necromancer be able to create undead without material components? You'd almost assuredly have to account for that. Perhaps be a psion (never any material components) using astral construct and Hyperconscious's psianimate dead power?

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxiDuRaritry View Post
    How does this affect constructs, including intelligent items? Psicrystals? Astral constructs? Animated objects? Undead? Golems?

    And would a necromancer be able to create undead without material components? You'd almost assuredly have to account for that. Perhaps be a psion (never any material components) using astral construct and Hyperconscious's psianimate dead power?
    Do you need to hold the material components in your hand?
    I believed the opals had to be in the mouth of the undead to animate(in the spell descriptions) and so that you can probably ask someone else to put the opals (like for example your familiar).
    For most necromancy spells outside of animate undead/create undead then eschew material components works since most have no expensive components.
    Last edited by noob; 2021-09-20 at 03:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Vow of Poverty/Vow of non-violence Cleric or similar, concentrate on buffing allies.

    Maybe Cloistered Cleric, and dip Ninja for Wis to AC. Worldy Focus feat so you don't need a holy symbol (that you might accidentally destroy anyway).

    A way to avoid accidentally touching things would be by getting some kind of living gloves.

    Peltast was a monster in earlier editions that would be ideal for this. Closest official 3E I can think of might be Throwing Gauntlet, or Psionic Sinew? Neither of those are ideal though.

    I suppose a symbiont or cohort doesn't count as a possession anyway, so maybe you can combine with VoP.

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    PirateWench

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Here is an idea that would allow you to use some weapons and armor...

    If your magic weapon had the flying property (Magic of Faerun, p140, +1 equivalent) it would be treated as an animated object. As a creature with the construct type, it would not be subject to your disintegrating touch. (As far as I know, the flying property wasn't reprinted later.)

    You could apply the same thing to your armor, but it requires a little more hoop-jumping. Theoretically you could put it on weapon spikes, but then there'd be room to argue that only the spikes ignore your disintegration. However, you could enchant your armor with the fearsome property (Drow of the Underdark, p97, +5k gp flat.) This makes your armor count as spiked, therefore becoming eligible for a weapon enchantment like flying. (If it had said the armor "has spikes" instead of "functions as if it has spikes" then it wouldn't help us any.) Side note: although there is a Fearsome property printed in the Magic Item Compendium, DotU was published after the MIC.

    You could always play as (or with) an artificer or purchase minor schema to use the weapon augmentation line of infusions. Having custom crafting would also be handy--how many flying weapons have you ever found in the wild?

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Some neat ideas so far.
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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    I may have misread the part about (de) buffs - so both buffs and debuffs are halved?

    If so, I'd amend my spell selections for a caster.

    I'd concentrate on save-or-sucks where there is no numeric value involved (Flesh to Stone, Hold Monster etc.). Charms, Suggestions, Dominate etc. would also be options. Wait, would numeric effects also include duration?

    Also, summons where no living creature is involved. Summon Undead has already been mentioned; also things like Conjure Ice Beast, Summon Golem etc.

    And you could throw in status removers as well, to help allies and not worry about diminished returns for buffs with numeric effects.

    Also, utility spells: teleporting, flying etc.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Imma go the other way and lean in.

    PF's Lesser Simulacrum spell all the way. If the curse DOES carry over to the copy then I can touch ALL the things. If not then hooray all my troubles are over so long as I can Cha my duplicates into touching stuff for me.

    In my extended sig there's a thread about how to acquire dust and sand for the purpose of making Awakened Sand Constructs via the Sandstorm spell of similar name. A curse like this would be a godsend to a character eagerly searching for dusty exploits.
    Did you know you can drown a character in dust?


    Alternatively, Psionic sandwich myself into any body that isn't cursed.

    Half Golem template requires the removal of a limb. Just go full on golem fists.

    The Hand of the Mage magic item isn't that expensive and would solve a whole lot of touching troubles.

    Would the curse follow the hand so I can make the most terrific burrowing Crawling Claw ever? What about that Book of Vile Darkness spell that severs your hand and turns it into an undead?
    Last edited by unseenmage; 2021-09-22 at 05:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Would the curse follow the hand so I can make the most terrific burrowing Crawling Claw ever? What about that Book of Vile Darkness spell that severs your hand and turns it into an undead?
    I think it would be more interesting if I said yes, it follows your hand, even if detached.
    But then we get into the philosophical and existential argument of what is "your hand." I'm not sure we're ready for that.
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    Default Re: Character challenge: Item Destroyer!

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Half Golem template requires the removal of a limb. Just go full on golem fists.
    That's a good call, and an interesting approach.

    If it's only hands that have this issue, you could also have them amputated, and replaced with a prosthetic like the Arm of Nyr: +2 untyped bonus to Str and Dex, and +2 deflection to AC. Being untyped, the ability bonuses should stack, so if you get two, +4 Str and +4 Dex.

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