Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235

[Fyraltari]

Finally found an apprenticeship! That means that not only am I going to learn my trade (editing/publishing) in the real world but my university won't kick me out!

This has been eating at me for the last three-four months, I am so ****ing relieved right now.

[Anonymouswizard]

Wooooo!

Guess I've got to get back on the job sites and find a better job now.

[dafrca]

Finally found an apprenticeship! That means that not only am I going to learn my trade (editing/publishing) in the real world but my university won't kick me out!

This has been eating at me for the last three-four months, I am so ****ing relieved right now.

Just curious, where are you going to do your internship at?

In a previous life I worked in both the Text book industry (a pre-press house back when they used film) and the magazine industry (Peterson Publishing when it was owned by Mr Peterson) and had a blast with publishing.

[Peelee]

Just curious, where are you going to do your internship at?

I got five euros on "France".

[Fyraltari]

Just curious, where are you going to do your internship at?

Apprenticeship, not internship. Half the week with the company, half the week at uni.

In a previous life I worked in both the Text book industry (a pre-press house back when they used film) and the magazine industry (Peterson Publishing when it was owned by Mr Peterson) and had a blast with publishing.

A company you've never heard of that (among other things) manages a platform where professionals can find articles and stuff about how to do their job better.

I got five euros on "France".

Well, you're not wrong.

[dafrca]

Apprenticeship, not internship. Half the week with the company, half the week at uni.

Sorry, I did an internship back in ye old days so for some reason my mind just filled in the word.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Rater202]

Marvel Comics had a character named Michael Van Patrick, alias MVP.

Michael was the grandson of Dr. Erksine, the man who created the procedures and formulas that empowered Captain America.

Dr. Erskine's research into unlocking human potential led him to discover that a lifetime of increadibly strict diet, exercise, and mental stimulation, precisely adjusted over time, would eventually result in a human being who was at the limits of natural human ability in all aptitudes. This research was what lead him to project Nietzche, the German Super Soldier Program, and what he offered to the US Government when he defected.

However, neither nation was interested in it as is becuase it was impractical—you have to control literally everything perfectly, and when we say lifetime, we mean "starts literally from birth."

As a recurring issue in comics, since it wasn't an instant fix it was declared useless and the Us Government, upon reviewing it, never bothered to classify it and turned it over to Erksine's descendants when they turned up on American soil.

Michael's father used the principles behind the diet and exercise regiment to make a killing selling exercise plans, diet plans, health food, and dietary supplements... Then when he had a son himself decided "you know what? Let's try this out."

Michael was a very fit and intelligent boy growing up, winning lots and lots of awards... Then people found out that he was Erskine's Grandson, and despite countless tests proving that he was genetically a normal human and had never taken performance-enhancing drugs, it was just assumed that he was a super soldier and he was stripped of all of his accomplishments.

accomplishments that were the result of diet, exercise, and his own efforts.

Then he completed the regimen, which caused a cascade of biochemical changes throughout his body that resulted in his being rebuilt at the molecular level into a physically perfect human just like Captain America... Which had a very little noticeable effect on him, becuase he was already near "peak human" from purely his own efforts. The only difference now is that from that point forward, clones of him would come out perfect without having to go through the effort themselves.

So, in the MArvel Universe, you can literally become superhuman with diet and excersize.

(Michael Van Patrick was forced to register with the Government under the Superhuman Registration act and sent to Camp Hammond to be trained as a child soldier superhero, where he was killed in an incompetently administered training exercise and then clone d repeatedly with one clone being sent back to his parents with fake memories to cover up his death and the rest being intended to be mass produced as foot soldiers.)

[Fyraltari]

Marvel Comics had a character named Michael Van Patrick, alias MVP.

Ah, the famed "real mvp".

[Lord Raziere]

Michael was a very fit and intelligent boy growing up, winning lots and lots of awards... Then people found out that he was Erskine's Grandson, and despite countless tests proving that he was genetically a normal human and had never taken performance-enhancing drugs, it was just assumed that he was a super soldier and he was stripped of all of his accomplishments.

What I'm getting from this, is that Marvel Universe is so paranoid about superhumans that being fit and healthy is considered a sign of being a mutant or super-soldier. and that they'd rather strip him of all accomplishment on the possibility rather than acknowledge that he is actually living a good life.

If that point was explored more I think that would help sell X-Men to people, because it shows how screwed up the society of Marvel's priorities has become that they start looking at people who are just fit, intelligent and probably good-looking and going "they can't possibly have got all this normally, burn him like a witch!" because then whenever the hate for mutants rises, people who have nothing to do with it get caught up in it as well, showing how irrational and stupid it is.

[Rater202]

What I'm getting from this, is that Marvel Universe is so paranoid about superhumans that being fit and healthy is considered a sign of being a mutant or super-soldier. and that they'd rather strip him of all accomplishment on the possibility rather than acknowledge that he is actually living a good life.

If that point was explored more I think that would help sell X-Men to people, because it shows how screwed up the society of Marvel's priorities has become that they start looking at people who are just fit, intelligent and probably good-looking and going "they can't possibly have got all this normally, burn him like a witch!" because then whenever the hate for mutants rises, people who have nothing to do with it get caught up in it as well, showing how irrational and stupid it is.

Ah ah ah ah, there's a double standard there.

Doctor Doom can openly commit theft, assault, battery, and terrorism on United States soil but nobody wants to pick a fight with him becuase he has diplomatic immunity.

Despite the Krakoan deal guaranteeing mutants diplomatic immunity if they accept Krakoan citizenship(which does not void any preexisting citizenships) mutants are still often assaulted for doing literally nothing and have no legal recourse unless the mutants go out of their way to appear in person and force the issue.

Phineas Mason, the Tinkerer, has no superhuman abilities. He's just an old guy who can make good tech out of cheap parts. He had been convicted of his crimes, served his sentence, and retired from the criminal lifestyle instead of electing to spend his old age with his grandchildren. He was assaulted in front of his grandchildren non the way to get ice cream with them, arrested without charges, and imprisoned without trial for violating the Superhuman Registration Act... a law which didn't apply to him as he was not a Superhuman and was not actively engaged in either Super Crime or Vigilante Justice. He'd paid for all of his crimes in full before the law went into effect.

Conversely, a bunch of active supervillains was given a pass becuase they were helping to beat up the heroes, which ultimately resulted in Norman Osborn taking over the United States and Instituting a group of psychos to take the place of the Avengers.

Some people still think that Spider-Man eats live squirrels.

It's not that they're paranoid about Superhumans...

It's been stated more than once that most baseline humans are evious of them. They want to be the X-Men, the Avengers, the Brotherhood, the Inhumans, The Defenders, the MAster of Evil... But since they can't, they take every opportunity to tear them down...

At least, the ones who can't or won't fight back.

[Fyraltari]

Ah ah ah ah, there's a double standard there.

Doctor Doom can openly commit theft, assault, battery, and terrorism on United States soil but nobody wants to pick a fight with him becuase he has diplomatic immunity.

That's not how that works. By all rights, that'd be Larveria declaring war on the USA. Diplomatic immunity is for, like parking violations and stuff, not serious crimes.

Despite the Krakoan deal guaranteeing mutants diplomatic immunity if they accept Krakoan citizenship(which does not void any preexisting citizenships)

That's not how it works either. The host country is the one who grants immunity to the diplomatic personnel of other countries not the other way around. Which is obvious when you think about it for five seconds, non-Krakoan justice systems don't answer to the Krakoan state. And assuming Krakoa asked for its entire population to be considered diplomats as part of whatever deal it is you mentionned. Huh, why?

mutants are still often assaulted for doing literally nothing and have no legal recourse unless the mutants go out of their way to appear in person and force the issue.

Am I reading you wrong? Because it seems like you're saying "they don't have legal recourse unless they ask for it" in which case, well duh.

Edit:

It's not that they're paranoid about Superhumans...

It's been stated more than once that most baseline humans are evious of them. They want to be the X-Men, the Avengers, the Brotherhood, the Inhumans, The Defenders, the MAster of Evil... But since they can't, they take every opportunity to tear them down...

At least, the ones who can't or won't fight back.

Damn, that's a bleak outlook on the human condition. I thought DC was the the edgelord superhero company, what the hell?

[Rater202]

That's not how that works. By all rights, that'd be Larveria declaring war on the USA. Diplomatic immunity is for, like parking violations and stuff, not serious crimes.

I know that's not how it works. In real life, that is.

What I am saying is that, in-universe, one man with diplomatic immunity is literally above the law solely becuase of his diplomatic privilege while other men with that same privlege have no legal recourse when someone Doxxes them which result in them being hate crimed and their human parents being murdered.

If Mutant is accused of a crime and says "I'm Krakoan" then if the legal officers are willing to play ball they'll be escorted to a Krakoan Gate in the hopes that the mutants will handle the issue... But the first time the diplomatic detail comes up, a member of the Krakoan Government had to show up at the trial of the mutant in question and literally force the court to turn over the accused so tha they could face trial in Krakoa instead. Amost getting shot in cold blood in the process.

(The mutant in question was guilty as sin and was convicted in Krakoan court.)

That's not how it works either. The host country is the one that grants immunity to the diplomatic personnel of other countries not the other way around. This is obvious when you think about it for five seconds, non-Krakoan justice systems don't answer to the Krakoan state. And assuming Krakoa asked for its entire population to be considered diplomats as part of whatever deal it is you mentioned. Huh, why?

Keep in mind, th eIsland Nation of Krakoa was founded becuase after 21 Genocides Charles Xavier was just like "okay, **** this coexistence isn't working anymore."

The terms of the Krakoan Deal, in simplified terms are, "you acknowledge Krakoan Sovrengty. Any mutant within your borders who even informal accepts Krakoan Citizenship will be considered a Krakoan citizen, and all Krakoan Citizens, be they also citizens of your country or not, will be afforded completly diplmatic status. In addition, we would like to plant portals in certain locations to allow ease of travel for mutants in your country to come and go to Krakoa. In exchange, we'll give you medicine that cures cancer and all known infections, medicine that cures all organic mental illness as well as stops and reverses neurological degeneration, and this pill that improve your general quality of health to the point that it will extend your life by five good years. And there will be more miracle drugs on the way as we develop them and make sure they're safe for human consumption."

Basically, Krakoa is trying to avoid another mutant genocide by bribing the governments of every other nation with miracle drugs.

The implication is that originally this was Krakoa playing hardball with the intent to move down to something more reasonable in negotiations... Then a member of the first diplomatic party willing to discuss the deal smuggled in a gun with the intent to intimidate Krakoa's representatives into something one-sided in the other direction and basically ruined it for everyone.

Am I reading you wrong? Because it seems like you're saying "they don't have legal recourse unless they ask for it" in which case, well duh.

They have no legal recourse and their diplomatic status isn't enforced unless someone from the Krakoan Government shows up and forces people to honor the deal.

[Anonymouswizard]

Sometimes I feel like it would be safer to live in the Girl Genius universe than the Marvel one.

Sure, I probably wouldn't be a Spark. I'd be more likely to be a secondary minion responsible for keeping the Doom Organ in working condition. But at least I'd be facing a mob for something I actually did.

Sidenote: I really want to play a Spark-expy D&D Artificer at the moment. A lawful evil human battlesmith or artillerist with the noble background and a bombastic personality. I think it'll be a blast.

[Peelee]

What I am saying is that, in-universe, one man with diplomatic immunity is literally above the law solely becuase of his diplomatic privilege

There's a phrase for that, ya know. "Bad writing".

[Lord Raziere]

Damn, that's a bleak outlook on the human condition. I thought DC was the the edgelord superhero company, what the hell?

Hah! DC never was originally that, dude.

the DC mainline universe is more about being responsible and wholesome than Spiderman. Superman is literally the most humble godlike being in existence who if he didn't have to save the world would probably just settle down with Lois lane and live a quiet cliche suburban life with a house and picket fence and kids on par with the Carpenters from Dresden Files- and in Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? he gets that ending. Batman being a lone vigilante is only his early stages: late-stage Batman is being surrounded by a Robin, a Batgirl, Alfred being dad/grandfather to all of them while Nightwing does his own thing in Bludhaven, having a kind sorta relationship with Catwoman while being a part time member of the Justice League with friends like Wonder-Woman, The Flash and such. The Flash himself? has basically one of the less serious and lighter rogue galleries of them all: the closest thing he has to the Joker is the Trickster (and the Trickster is actually friendly to Flash and tries to avoid killing and is more of a conman than fighter) and the rest are guys who just gadgets to get around his super-speed to steal stuff. in fact Flashes Rogues gallery has certain rules most of them follow:
-It's about the money. So jobs that lead to ruling the world and such are generally turned down by the team.
-Don't kill a cop, if it can be avoided. Cop killers get more attention from superheroes and police.
-Never kill a cape, but especially speedsters. For the same reasons as above.
-No drugs. It messes with their heads and leads to mistakes.
-While not explicitly one of the rules, the Rogues also tend not to kill indiscriminately, because it would (again) attract unwanted escalation, and bank jobs in general don't require much bloodshed.

and basically, the DC Universe in general emphasizes thinking about what a hero is philosophically and what the right action to do is. Batman is kind of the halloween exception to the rest of its universe, because while there is a Darkseid, there is many heroes from Orion to Mister Miracle to Superman that oppose and beat him. while there is a Joker, he is an exception even among the Batman villains, as there is some evidence of someone like the Penguin being rehabilitated and not only live on the straight and narrow but be successful doing it, its a universe where the Green Lanterns were Spiral Power/Determination before those things were written. its a universe where its possible for Lex Luthor to obtain all of superman's power, see the world exactly as Superman sees it with all the machinery of the universe laid before him, from the beginning and how its all just us, everyone connected, and that we're all we got, realize that Superman decided to be a good person anyways in the face of seeing all that....and admit that he was wrong and that Superman was right.

Its a universe, where someone as screwed up as Batman if given the opportunity to hunt down THE person who killed his parents, the ordinary gun user who who he could probably kill easily in revenge..... he would stay his hand after getting some closure, go back to his Bat-family and care for his adopted son Robin.

Its a universe where someone can invent something like AMAZO, a robot capable of learning and copying all of the Justice League's powers, beating all the Justice League just to get to Lex Luthor just so he can ask "what is my purpose in life?" and Lex Luthor, confronted with this godlike robot in response explains "no one really knows what their purpose is and we all must decide what that purpose is for ourselves" which actually helps him out and makes sure he is no longer a threat to anyone. this a villainous Luthor who DOESN'T have the above revelation about Superman.

edgelord grim superhero DC is purely a Snyderverse invention.

[Rater202]

Dc is dark and gritty on the surface but very uplifting once you dig deep.

Marvel is more fun and lighthearted on the surface in comparison but when you dig deep it asks some bleak existential questions.

Here's a great example: In JLA/Avengers, when the Justice League ended up in the Marvel universe and saw how much scorn the average citizen had for supers who were doing their best, they assumed that the heroes in the Marvel Universe must suck becuase they can't comprehend someone being that callous about people who risk their lives day in and day out to protect people from constant existential threats.

When the Avengers are in the Post-Crisis DC universe and see publically funded statues of various heroes, they assume that DCs heroes must be Tyrants who took over the world and forced people to praise them becuase Doctor Doom is the only frame of reference they have for a Super who is universally praised by the people in his area. Genuine appreciation for every hero is totally alien to them.

[Lord Raziere]

Indeed.

DC Heroes are heroes because they deserve all the praise they get.

Marvel Heroes are heroes because they keep fighting despite not getting any praise.

Neither is better, just different to my eyes, and each one admirable.

[Rater202]

Indeed.

DC Heroes are heroes because they deserve all the praise they get.

Marvel Heroes are heroes because they keep fighting despite not getting any praise.

Neither is better, just different to my eyes, and each one admirable.

To put it simply, DC takes the stance that humans are inherently good. Acts of selfishness or a lack of empathy are a result of weakness on the part of the individual while someone who is out and out evil is that way becuase there is something fundamentally wrong with them.

Marvel takes the stance that humans are inherently... Well, not evil, but... Selfishness, lack of empathy, hatred... It's easy.

Let's draw a comparison.

Slade Wilson, alias Death Stroke the Terminator, wouldn't be a supervillain in Marvel.

(Ignore the fact that Deadpool, who started as a transparent Deathstroke knockoff, is usually a heroic character.)

Slade at the age of 16 lied about his age so that he could enlist in the army becuase he wanted to serve his country and genuinely believed that that was the right thing to do. Turned out he was good at it, easily mastering everything he was taught, climbing the ranks on merit, earning medal after medal. Became a career soldier, fell in love, got married, had kids. Then he volunteered for a supersoldier program.

The serum destroyed his mind and body and ultimately caused him to fall into a coma... Then he woke up, fully recovered, smarter, stronger, faster, tougher, and completly stable. He tried to re-enlist, only to be rejected.

He falls into depression at no longer being able to serve which resulted in him becoming a mercenary out of lack of other options for using his skills, which cost him his family and ultimately led to him falling down the slippery slope, ended up a supervillain.

In DC's logic, his allowing his depression and loss to break him and drive him to evil is a failure on his part. It's a weakness. Much the same way that the Killing Joke doesn't frame Gordon withstanding the Joker's attempts to break him as Jim being strong but as The Joker having been weak for letting his "one bad day" break him.

In marvel, the simple fact that it took him years to get to the point of being a killer for hire instead of going for it immediately would be proof that he's not week, he's just a normal dude. He woulnd't have fallen down the slope. At worst he'd just be another one of Marvel Amoral Mercenaries who work for whoever pays them, at best he'd have become a vigilante. He wouldn't be one of the big bads.

And that's ignoring the fact that "fell into a coma for a few months and then came back sane and stable with enhanced strength and mental faculties" would be considered a great success story when it comes to super soldier programs. Compared to Nuke and Anti-Cap, other "success stories," Slade would have...

In the Marvel Universe, he would have been allowed to reenlist. The events that drove him to villainy never would have happened.

He wouldn't be exceptional, wouldn't have been a paragon like Steve, but...

[dafrca]

My cat and I just shared a ham steak. He looked so very happy. I know I was.

On a different front. got to play last night for a while, been close to a month because of various reasons so it was nice. My one friend said it will be better once I retire. We shall see.

[Lord Raziere]

Well isn't that more of an issue of how they handle mental health?

like I can't recall any villain in Marvel who just goes plain insane like the Joker does. Magneto has his reasons and logic for what he does, Dr. Doom does have Lex-Luthor like potential of being the best thing that could ever happen to humanity if he just got out his envious-narcissist mindset, Thanos has his weird crush on death/just plain ignorant of how logistics work. they're all villains, but they have more reasons behind what they do than "they just broke one day".

though Lex Luthor kind of also has reasons more than "he broke one day" he is also that envious-narcissist mindset, just without the loud over the top proclamations and directed at someone different. Darkseid is just a god of evil so....mental health really doesn't apply, since he seems to be a force in the shape of an evil man. and again, most of Flash's Rogue's gallery are dudes who agree they are criminals to make money and thus cut out anything unnecessary or put them into something more high profile that would only get in the way- it seems successful, because despite Flash being one of the more famous and long-running (heh) superheroes, you only get reverse-flash showing up as a villain most of the time, because he is just incredibly petty.

like all it really says is that Marvel in some ways probably better at handling mental health, even though DC is probably right that the Joker isn't really stronger or more impressive or whatever just for torturing people to try and break them and is actually kind of a pathetic jerk for doing so, regardless of his actual origin or past because its an intentional mystery and he might've made up the whole "One Bad Day" thing.

[Rater202]

Well isn't that more of an issue of how they handle mental health?

like I can't recall any villain in Marvel who just goes plain insane like the Joker does. Magneto has his reasons and logic for what he does, Dr. Doom does have Lex-Luthor like potential of being the best thing that could ever happen to humanity if he just got out his envious-narcissist mindset, Thanos has his weird crush on death/just plain ignorant of how logistics work. they're all villains, but they have more reasons behind what they do than "they just broke one day".

though Lex Luthor kind of also has reasons more than "he broke one day" he is also that envious-narcissist mindset, just without the loud over the top proclamations and directed at someone different. Darkseid is just a god of evil so....mental health really doesn't apply, since he seems to be a force in the shape of an evil man. and again, most of Flash's Rogue's gallery are dudes who agree they are criminals to make money and thus cut out anything unnecessary or put them into something more high profile that would only get in the way- it seems successful, because despite Flash being one of the more famous and long-running (heh) superheroes, you only get reverse-flash showing up as a villain most of the time, because he is just incredibly petty.

like all it really says is that Marvel in some ways probably better at handling mental health, even though DC is probably right that the Joker isn't really stronger or more impressive or whatever just for torturing people to try and break them and is actually kind of a pathetic jerk for doing so, regardless of his actual origin or past because its an intentional mystery and he might've made up the whole "One Bad Day" thing.

Marvel has a few mental illnesses issues like that.

The Sin-Eater, for one. Stan was traumatized at an early age and, as he grew up started suffering delusions and full-blown hallucinations that compelled him to murder people so that he could take their sins onto himself.

He was responsible for the death of Jean DeWolf, an ally of Spider-Man's.

After being captured, he was subjected to intense psychotherapy and was eventually given a clean bill of mental health and released... But Spider-Man didn't buy him being rehabilitated so fast. Peter's investigation resulted in Stan getting stressed out enough that he relapsed back into his delusions and he ended up committing suicide by cop.

Peter considers allowing his suspicion to lead him to drive Stan back to madness and eventually to his death to be among his greatest failures. It's notable that PEter is ar more forgiving and willing to give second chances after that storyline.

And the especially notable thing is that Stan stayed dead. At least until Nick Spencer's Spider-Man run, which had a recurring thread of a demonic entity called Kindred trying to destroy Peter by forcing him to confront his own "sins." Bringing Stan back as crazy as ever, taunting him with images of what his life was like just before he made the deal with Mephisto, forcing him to sit at a dinner table with the exhumed corpses of Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, George Stacy, Jean DeWolfe, and Flash Thompson*

*Who came back to like, less than a week later mind you.

[Lord Raziere]

And the especially notable thing is that Stan stayed dead. At least until Nick Spencer's Spider-Man run, which had a recurring thread of a demonic entity called Kindred trying to destroy Peter by forcing him to confront his own "sins." Bringing Stan back as crazy as ever, taunting him with images of what his life was like just before he made the deal with Mephisto, forcing him to sit at a dinner table with the exhumed corpses of Uncle Ben, Gwen Stacy, George Stacy, Jean DeWolfe, and Flash Thompson*

*Who came back to like, less than a week later mind you.

Yeah I've watched an episode of Linkara where he explains/rants why not ALL the supers get resurrected. turns out, the whole resurrection/reboot thing? that only happens for major/popular characters.

There are like tons of minor characters that don't get the same chance because they're killed off in some random storyline by a bad writer and no one cares to bring them back, maybe not for decades. I have no examples, because I'm not an avid comic book reader, so I would've never heard of them.

coincidentally, it was also an episode where he was reviewing a DC comic book where the League made a rehabilitation center to treat mental issues......staffed by digital personality clones of superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in a computer. who are not trained dedicated psychologists/therapists. things quite predictably don't turn out well and it was rated as a bad comic and I'd be hard pressed to disagree.

[Mystic Muse]

https://mobile.twitter.com/CAtraxabl...88785571962882

Got another mini painted for the first time in a while.

[Rater202]

An observation about the Dragon Ball fandom.

Goku's father as depicted in a TV special that was never intended to be canon: Baddass space pirate who commits genocide for a living with no remorse, but turns against his employer when he's cursed to see his own race being destroyed. Emphatically does not give a crap about his kids, but has friends he cares about.

Fans: "Yay!"

Goku's father as depicted in canonical materials: Badass Space Pirate who commits genocide for a living with... Hardly any remorse, when he gets suspicious that his employer is acting strangely("Why would Lord Frieza cancel all missions and order the Saiyans back to Vegeta effective immediately") and sends his youngest son off-planet under false pretenses as insurance. Is known to have spared exactly three people after wiping out the entire rest of their planet becuase two of them reminded him of his wife and kids.

Fans: "Boo!"

Literally the only difference between Bardock in canon and Bardock in the original TV special is that his character is somewhat nuanced and that he cares about his family. Why is "slightly more compelx character" bad?

[Cazero]

Literally the only difference between Bardock in canon and Bardock in the original TV special is that his character is somewhat nuanced and that he cares about his family. Why is "slightly more compelx character" bad?

Because it's inconsistent with the incomplete picture of Saiyan culture we got from the three racists pricks who survived.

[HalfTangible]

Radditz cares about his family about as much as I care for my toilet paper. This seems to go against the notion that his father loved him and while he MIGHT have neglected him for Kakarot that seems unlikely given Goku is supposed to be the younger brother IIRC. Minus also raises the question of why Goku is such a hateful genocidal prick before bumping his head if his parents loved him and didn't want him to be a space tyrant.

... At least that's my guess. I haven't really followed Dragon Ball much since Z ended beyond some cultural osmosis.

[Rater202]

Radditz cares about his family about as much as I care for my toilet paper. This seems to go against the notion that his father loved him and while he MIGHT have neglected him for Kakarot that seems unlikely given Goku is supposed to be the younger brother IIRC. Minus also raises the question of why Goku is such a hateful genocidal prick before bumping his head if his parents loved him and didn't want him to be a space tyrant.

... At least that's my guess. I haven't really followed Dragon Ball much since Z ended beyond some cultural osmosis.

1: Raditz was apparently partnered with Vegeta more or less permenantly. Saiyan Royals have stronger familial bodies than the lower class, which Raditz may have witnessed and he probably didn't have much contact with his family. Presumably, since Vegeta has always been kind of a batard, Raditz was still mocked for being a low-born weakling even as Vegeta's partner as a child, which may have given Raditz a bit of a complex.

2: Goku wasn't a hateful genocidal prick. What they say is that Goku was violent and rambunctious until he fell and hit his head.

It should also be noted that his parents never said they didn't want him to be hateful: They sent him to earth under the guise of a planet conquering mission becuase Bardock got suspicious of Frieza ordering all of the Saiyans back to Planet Vegeta, canceling all missions in progress.

"This is a backwater planet with lots of food and a weak population. Nobody will go looking for you there and if we're wrong we can come to get you later. Also, stay away from the Galactic Patrol."

If Frieza hadn't been planning to kill the Saiyans, Bardock probably would have gone to Earth, grabbed Kakarot, and then wiped out the population becuase why make two trips?

[Lord Raziere]

I mean its probably just..... the fact the original Bardock movie told its story really well. like canon materials kind of tells the story a little boringly is the problem, when the original movie you basically have Bardock bouncing between consciousness and unconsciousness and being in a rush near the end as he desperately tries to warn people....and they laugh at him, so feeling the end coming he decides to face it head on, flying up to Freeza's spaceship to try and kill him or at least go out flipping the guy off, and he dies seeing his son face Freeza, in a way having a measure of peace as the ki ball consumes him.

thats much more of a story than we got in the DB Super Broly movie. where Bardock just kinda figures it all out by educated guessing, puts Goku in a pod and sends him away then...Freeza just does it. sure he still gets to send a blast back in futility. But the original movie had an entire movie run time to build up to his death, to make events spiral out of control for him and make him give him a speech to Freeza directly before it happens. in DBS Broly the events are just....kind of there. its a sideshow to Broly, and you don't really feel the emotions he would be feeling at the moment. he is more nuanced character but the storytelling used to show him wasn't the best, because he wasn't the focus of that movie.

[Anonymouswizard]

A good story about a bad person is more interesting than a bad story told about a good person.

There are great Superman stories (especially All Star Superman), but there's also great John Constantine stories. Even though John's kind of a bastard. In fact I'll generally prefer a Constantine story because of that, but that's personal taste.

[Rater202]

I mean its probably just..... the fact the original Bardock movie told its story really well. like canon materials kind of tells the story a little boringly is the problem, when the original movie you basically have Bardock bouncing between consciousness and unconsciousness and being in a rush near the end as he desperately tries to warn people....and they laugh at him, so feeling the end coming he decides to face it head on, flying up to Freeza's spaceship to try and kill him or at least go out flipping the guy off, and he dies seeing his son face Freeza, in a way having a measure of peace as the ki ball consumes him.

thats much more of a story than we got in the DB Super Broly movie. where Bardock just kinda figures it all out by educated guessing, puts Goku in a pod and sends him away then...Freeza just does it. sure he still gets to send a blast back in futility. But the original movie had an entire movie run time to build up to his death, to make events spiral out of control for him and make him give him a speech to Freeza directly before it happens. in DBS Broly the events are just....kind of there. its a sideshow to Broly, and you don't really feel the emotions he would be feeling at the moment. he is more nuanced character but the storytelling used to show him wasn't the best, because he wasn't the focus of that movie.

And that would be fair... If it wasn't specifically complaints about Bardock's character that I've been seeing regarding how Bardock is "worse" now, rather than story quality.

I've seen people even say that Dragon Ball Minus is a bad story because it "retcons" Bardock