Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum, Form smells a Random Banter #235

[Peelee]

In Cyberpunk 2077, it is literally a crime to put pineapple on pizza. There's a wanted poster and someone has a bounty on his head for it.

Despite this, pineapple and "tofu'd tuna" pizza is a common consumable item.

I assume Cyberpunk2077 game play involves a copious amount of good citizenship and obeying all laws?

[dafrca]

I assume Cyberpunk2077 game play involves a copious amount of good citizenship and obeying all laws?

LOL, of course, street runners would never think of doing anything questionable.

[Anonymouswizard]

Wanna know how I know you don't buy a lot of rocks?

Divination magic. Not sure why you used Spells Known on it, but you do you.

[Peelee]

Divination magic. Not sure why you used Spells Known on it, but you do you.

What else was I going to do once they let me work in intelligence?

[Rater202]

What else was I going to do once they let me work in intelligence?

Learn a terrible dark secret, go mad from the revelation, and become a supervillain?

[Peelee]

Learn a terrible dark secret, go mad from the revelation, and become a supervillain?

"Intelligence" is just a way to make mind-numbing monotonous waiting sound exciting.

[Rater202]

"Intelligence" is just a way to make mind-numbing monotonous waiting sound exciting.

Sorry, let me correct.

"Get bored, go mad from the boredom, become a supervillain."

[Peelee]

Sorry, let me correct.

"Get bored, go mad from the boredom, become a supervillain."

Unfortunately I am burdened with an overabundance of patience.

[Rater202]

the other day I saw someone make the argument that the purpose of homework wasn't to evaluate whether a student was learning but to condition children from a young age to the idea of going to a place where you did work for several hours, then coming home and doing even more work on your own time. then when they grow up they don't have as many problems with things like unpaid overtime or having to take paperwork home to do on your own time or being called in at odd hours after already working your regular time for the week.

And then I remembered how a lot of the Homework I had in midde and high school was really pointless busy work(the majority of the homework in my pre-algebra/algebra class was completion: Did you do it? Did you show your work the exact way she wanted you too? That was more important that getting the correct answer or actually understanding the problem,) how none of the teachers in high school seemed to understand that their students had seven oher teachers all assigning homework and may also have social obligations or like, need to sleep, and how in college they just flat out told us one day that we needed to spend 3 hours of our own time studying for every hour in the classroom, which at a standard 12 credit hour week means that between class and "personal study time" you'd be working 48 hours a week, the majority of which would be on your time.

I'm probably biased due to my experiences with the public school system, but this makes too much sense and is consistent with the fact that the school system is modeled on factor production with "productive working members of society" being the end product.

[enderlord99]

I don't know how long "12 credits" is, but assuming it's only* 8 hours per day, and that you get two days off for the weekend... Factoring in 3 times that for the homework portion does not make 48 hours each week. It makes 200.

Keeping in mind that a week is only 168 hours, this seems consistent with students being deliberately set up for failure.

[Rater202]

I don't know how long "12 credits" is, but assuming it's only* 8 hours per day, and that you get two days off for the weekend... Factoring in 3 times that for the homework portion does not make 48 hours each week. It makes 200.

Keeping in mind that a week is only 168 hours, this seems consistent with students being deliberately set up for failure.

That was supposed to be credit hours. Hours in the classroom per week.

So 12x4(class hours+homework and study) becomes 48 hours a week, or a standard full-time job plus eight hours of overtime.

[Keltest]

Well, i cant speak for every school, but for mine at least, homework was done for the point of getting us to practice and Do the Thing. I know this because i was bad about doing homework, and could track my ability to perform later in the class relative to how much homework i had done for it.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Anonymouswizard]

At my school it was generally, on average, an hour's homework per subject per week, which comes out to ten hours. With five to six hours of lessons per day that ended up at forty hours the average week (plus breaks).

[Peelee]

And then I remembered how a lot of the Homework I had in midde and high school was really pointless busy work(the majority of the homework in my pre-algebra/algebra class was completion: Did you do it? Did you show your work the exact way she wanted you too? That was more important that getting the correct answer or actually understanding the problem,)

That is not busy work; that is just teaching lower level math.

An SMBC comic comes to mind:

Spoiler: large image

Show

Now, it's pretty much the most flippant way to put that, but it's 100% correct. In 99% of the world outside of STEM fields, you won't ever be using algebra. Or heck, even basic geometry. That just doesn't really come up. And in STEM fields, well you still don't, but you absolutely need to know the principles to even be able to grasp trigonometry, and you need to have trig down pretty well to have a strong showing in calculus, and if you try chemistry or physics without calc then you may as well be playing speak and spell for all the good its gonna do your academic career (not counting taking chem/phys as required science quota credits for unrelated degrees, of course). But the fact is, out of every classroom in the country, maybe a handful will actually need those math classes, but it is absolutely vital that they get those math classes. There's so much to master that you have to start early. And we keep pushing it earlier if possible because we keep advancing. Calculus used to be a college course. Now you can crack it in high school.

And you show your work and the answer doesn't matter because that's how lower level math works. On its own, it simply does not matter what x equals when you're doing the quadratic formula. You will, in almost all certainty, never need to apply (-b +- √(b²-4ac))/2a to any functional problem in your everyday life. The numbers straight up do not matter. What matters is that you know how and when to apply that. Same for trig. Same for calc. It's all about having the process down so you understand how it applies in the next level, so you understand how that applies in the next level. And we shotgun blast it at all students because we don't know who will be the ones to actually need it so everyone gets it, which assures us that the ones who need it will definitely have it.

If you're one of the ones who didn't need it? That stinks, but it wasn't really that bad and the ones who did need it invented computers and cell phones and the internet and air conditioning and light bulbs and semiconductors and all those little things that make our daily lives what they are. So if a teenager who will eventually get an MBA or enlist in the infantry or found a small business or become CEO of Nestlé or do any of the millions of jobs that don't require anything beyond basic arithmetic needs to learn the unit circle just so the ones who go into engineering or physics can get that down and help improve the world, that's a damned good tradeoff.

and how in college they just flat out told us one day that we needed to spend 3 hours of our own time studying for every hour in the classroom, which at a standard 12 credit hour week means that between class and "personal study time" you'd be working 48 hours a week, the majority of which would be on your time.

College, especially in the. STEM fields, is optional. It's not general studies like grade school or high school. It's employment preparation. Nobody is out there taking inorganic chemistry or molecular biology or classical mechanics for the fun of it. They're taking those because they need to know these things in order to preform the basic demands that their career will require. And these are not easy subjects. You're in class for an hour a day thee times a week with a lab in Thursday, and I'm sorry, but if you can master the material just from that, then you're not who that "three hours for every classroom hour" is pointed at.

[Rater202]

Peelee... In the example I gave, I was actively penalized becuase I gave the correct answer, explained exactly how I got it step by step flollowing the process we were taught but had it marked wrong becuase I didn't show my work the exact way the teacher wanted.

She literally did not care if we understood the process. Only that we did the work to exact specifications whether we knew what we were doing or not.

That's not how you teach math of any level. That's at best you consuming someone's time, at worst you trying to brainwash someone into being a mindless drone who follows orders without question.

That was also only one example. I've got more.

In English Class the same year we were required to answer a set of questions on To Kill a Mocking Bird once on our own paper written by hand... Then type the exact same answers in a doc file, print that out, and hand it in.

The written copy was never turned in, was not for a grade, the teacher did not look at them hand them back with criticism to do on a second draft, nothing. It was literally just done to eat up a class period. We could have either just done the written questions in class and turned them in then, or... Done the typed questions, printed them out, and turned them in.

(And before anyone says anything, it couldn't a lesson in transcribing text from written to digital, becuase 1: She actually cared that the answers were correct and 2: You'd have thought she would have provided text to transcribe and graded us on its accuracy instead of having us transcribe something we ourselves wrote without her ever having seen the originals.)

I never got an explanation for why we had to do the exact same assignment twice when only one would be graded for and got yelled at for pointing out that we were just wasting time with redundant work. Wasn't even talking to the teacher, but apparently telling the person next to you that you think that you're wasting your time in response to something they asked you (talking quietly during work time was permitted in this class) is the same as calling the teacher retarded to her face.

As far as I can tell, it was just making sure we used the entire class period instead of... using the rest of the time to maybe do something we otherwise would have had as homework? Or starton what we would have done the next day? Instead of using class time efficinetly.

[halfeye]

Where have all the schools for maladjusted children gone?

[Rater202]

Where have all the schools for maladjusted children gone?

A lot of them got shut down for being abusive as all hell. Maladjusted children get sent to camps now... Which are still abusive as all hell, but get away with it by exploiting loopholes.

Regardless, I'm not a maladjusted child, I'm a maladjusted adult.

Just like everyone else. Everyone has damage, everyone has baggage, pretending otherwise doesn't do anyone any favors. Some people have more or less than others, but everyone has some.

The measure of a human being is how you deal with it. Do you use your pain to motivate yourself to do better, talk to a therapist to work out your issues, or share your experiences as a cautionary tale in the hopes that people don't make your mistakes? Do you work through your emotions artistically? Something constructive and healthy?

Or do you take it out on unrelated people because hurting others makes you hurt slightly less? Or spend all day every day drinking yourself stupid so that you aren't able to confront your feelings?

I personally like to work things out through writing and creative scenarios.

[Peelee]

Peelee... In the example I gave, I was actively penalized becuase I gave the correct answer, explained exactly how I got it step by step flollowing the process we were taught but had it marked wrong becuase I didn't show my work the exact way the teacher wanted.

And without any other context, it's impossible to tell if there was a very good reason for that or not. All we have is your version (which is always slanted in favor of the person telling it) with virtually no details whatsoever.

There's a saying, if someone meets a jerk in the morning, that person met a jerk. If someone meets nothing but jerks all day, that person might be the jerk.

From all the impressions I've gotten, you have an a remarkably long list of teachers who were abusive, did anything but teach, or just plain had it out for you. There's two possibilities here, either you were incredibly unlucky and have had virtually nothing but bad teachers your entire life, or you perceived things as worse than they were. I can't say which, there's simply too little information.

I'm anything but an expert on the subject, and this does not in any way lend any credentials to me other than anecdotal experience (which is worth its weight in gold), but my dad got a doctorate of education from one of the best universities in the world, wrote at least nine graduate-level textbooks, and taught educational philosophy. If he was still here, I would absolutely go to him for the complete wellspring of knowledge on the subject that he was, but as I cannot, all I can say is that among the great many things he imparted in me, one of them was that students, especially younger ones, will not always understand the goals that their teachers are shooting for. Sometimes they won't even after the fact, well into adulthood.

Again, I'm not going to pretend that I know which slot you fall into (even if they can be slots; like many things, it's really more of a spectrum), since I have neither the knowledge nor the expertise nor the specific details. But what I can say is this: even if you do not know what the goals were, can you think about whether it's possible that there were goals which you were unaware of? That there just may be more things in heaven and earth , my dear Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy?

[Rater202]

I have had good teachers, Peelee. I just don't bring them up because whenever my school history comes up in conversation the bad ones, or experiences with bullying, that are relevant.

I beleive I even mentioned that I chose my alma mater in part because all the good teachers I had in high school had a degree from here, which suggests a pattern.

In fact,t eh teacher that yelled at me regarding the redundant busywork later apologized for it.

...she was also the one who admitted that I was smarter than her.

For what it's worth: I am a diagnosed autistic, I am heavily introverted, I am awkward and anxious socially, I am a nerd, I am of above-average intelligence(though admittedly probably not as much as I was led to beleive as a child), and as you can probably infer I am strongly opinionated. All of those categories correlate to an increased likelihood of being bullied by peers or mistreated by people in positions of authority above them.

Compared to the average student my stories might seem... Excessive, but if you controlled for variables and compared me only to people who come from similar backgrounds I'm...

Okay, I'm probably still excessive but not as much.

[Anonymouswizard]

As a diagnosed autistic who potentially scrapes genius level but is more likely just quite intelligent, I really think it depends on where you are. I never got actively bullied, although I'll note that there could have been passive bullying going on (although it was unlikely intentional). But a lot of that had less to do with my social awkwardness and more to do with just not sharing the common interests of the region. Never got invited to parties, but that suited me fine, and I never got excluded from casual social situations.

Honestly, I have a weird relationship with my friends. I don't get invited to concerts or the like because people never think to ask me about my taste in music, and I just don't live near enough to most for them to consider my when organising groups (and I miss general calls because social media sucks and I avoid it). But one of my best friends also complains about how neither of us remember to message each other, and I managed to have two hours of conversion today about how silly 40k lore is and how to fix it (despite all the hype the Space Marines have basically done nothing of importance. There's just too few of them, with five billion Guardsmen for every Astartes, meaning that strategic Astartes strikes are basically a footnote in the Army/Guard's 10,000 year history of achievement).

[Peelee]

I have had good teachers, Peelee. I just don't bring them up because whenever my school history comes up in conversation the bad ones, or experiences with bullying, that are relevant.

I beleive I even mentioned that I chose my alma mater in part because all the good teachers I had in high school had a degree from here, which suggests a pattern.

In fact,t eh teacher that yelled at me regarding the redundant busywork later apologized for it.

...she was also the one who admitted that I was smarter than her.

For what it's worth: I am a diagnosed autistic, I am heavily introverted, I am awkward and anxious socially, I am a nerd, I am of above-average intelligence(though admittedly probably not as much as I was led to beleive as a child), and as you can probably infer I am strongly opinionated. All of those categories correlate to an increased likelihood of being bullied by peers or mistreated by people in positions of authority above them.

Compared to the average student my stories might seem... Excessive, but if you controlled for variables and compared me only to people who come from similar backgrounds I'm...

Okay, I'm probably still excessive but not as much.

That's all pretty fair. And, as someone on the spectrum, I can empathize with parts of it.

[Beeftank]

I’ve always found math is the subject that depends the most on how good your teacher is for how good your experience is in the class. Back in college I had a not so great teacher for Calc III, which I really struggled with, but I had a fantastic teacher for differential equations and I had a much easier time in that class. A lot of my friends had the opposite experience; they swore up and down that Calc III was way easier

Not directly related to the convo, but something I felt like mentioning.

[Rater202]

That's all pretty fair. And, as someone on the spectrum, I can empathize with parts of it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd still like to be a dragon or a Hulkverine or a genie or something, then round up all the people who ever mistreated me or people i care about and make it abundantly clear to them that they will grow old and die but I'll be young, healthy, and more awesome than they could ever hope to be forever than having gotten that closure go off and, you know, be awesome...

But, you know, that's not exactly a realistic goal.

[Peelee]

Unrelated to anything, but as a late birthday present to me, I just found out that Law & Order has been brought back for a 21st season. Dare I dream of the glorious return of Jack McCoy?

[Rater202]

Unrelated to anything, but as a late birthday present to me, I just found out that Law & Order has been brought back for a 21st season. Dare I dream of the glorious return of Jack McCoy?

Huh. Law and order must be having a resurgence. Not that long ago they aired the first new series for it in... Years. Not counting, of course, the Chicago franchise which is in the same world but other than one crossover is unrelated.

[Peelee]

Huh. Law and order must be having a resurgence. Not that long ago they aired the first new series for it in... Years. Not counting, of course, the Chicago franchise which is in the same world but other than one crossover is unrelated.

L&O has always been a behemoth show. Frankly, the original was still going strong when NBC decided to cancel it, which apparently made Dick Wolf flabbergasted. I have no idea what made NBC decide to axe it, but someone finally found a head on their shoulders.

[Mystic Muse]

This is just a random thing.

A lot of times, Warhammer writing is not great, but I really like this response to one of my least favorite excuses.

"There was no other way!"

"No? What other ways did you try?"

[Rater202]

L&O has always been a behemoth show. Frankly, the original was still going strong when NBC decided to cancel it, which apparently made Dick Wolf flabbergasted. I have no idea what made NBC decide to axe it, but someone finally found a head on their shoulders.

Yeah, but for a good long while, SVU was the only thing consistently airing and getting new episodes. Then a little bit ago they did the Organized Crime show, now they're reviving the mothership... Honestly, for a while, I thought it was winding down but it looks like it's gotten a second wind.

[Peelee]

Yeah, but for a good long while, SVU was the only thing consistently airing and getting new episodes. Then a little bit ago they did the Organized Crime show, now they're reviving the mothership... Honestly, for a while, I thought it was winding down but it looks like it's gotten a second wind.

The OG was canceled in favor of L&O Los Angeles, which was canceled halfway through its first season. Which is just asinine. Notwithstanding that, the series also ran L&O: UK for another few years (which I enjoyed, despite that it featured nothing but American L&O plots where the law was similar enough to England's, and had zero new stories because god only knows) and tried its hand at true crime in the appropriately named L&O: True Crime.

All of which culminates in my theory, NBC inexplicably hates Law & Order.

Bonus: Anthony Anderson is in talks to come back. I did love me some Detective Bernard. He and Lupo were a great team, hope they can find someone else worthy of being his junior.

[HalfTangible]

This is just a random thing.

A lot of times, Warhammer writing is not great, but I really like this response to one of my least favorite excuses.

"There was no other way!"

"No? What other ways did you try?"

The problem with Warhammer is that its world is so cynical and GRIMDARK that in all likelihood they did try the "better" way and it ended worse. (quick and dirty example: "why use lobotomized humans as computers when you could just make AI?" "Every AI that isn't a Tau drone inevitably goes insane and tries to destroy all life in the universe. Usually within minutes.") The god of hope is also the god of trickery, betrayal, and Fate, after all.

'course, then you have **** like the Grey Knights using SoB blood to make holy sigils on their armor which is stupid on a number of levels... Or Inquisitor Kryptman, a guy whose plan to stop the Tyranids was so morally bankrupt that he was banished FROM THE INQUISITION.