A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Animated Object Shenanigans

    So random train of thought i had has left me with something of a puzzle, one I doubt has a RAW answer. Hopefully you guys can help out. Lets do this:

    Crawling claw wearing a magic gauntlet and a magic ring gains the effects of both.

    If you animate the gauntlet who gains its effects? The gauntlet, the claw or both? What about the ring, is it just the gauntlet that counts as wearing it?

    What if you now animate the ring? Who gains its benefits? Could it gain the benefits of the gauntlet or does being worn by not count?

    Random side question. Is a crawling claw in a gauntlet now armoured?

    Enjoy!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Spamalot in the Playground
     
    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Animate Objects doesn't work on magic items. Are you talking about crafting an intelligent gauntlet?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Animate Objects doesn't work on magic items. Are you talking about crafting an intelligent gauntlet?
    its 3.5, you can find loopholes if you try, like +1 flying(MoF) gauntlet

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    unseenmage's Avatar

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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Same question works for medium humanoids in full plate armor and has been asked countless times; but I like where you're going!

    Crawling Claws were updated in Lost Empires of Faerun to be a swarm. However the original spell was not updated and would still make the creatures called Crawling Claws...
    Our GM has the spell make the 3.0 version while the LEoF version does its own thing.


    As for your question, You wind up having to use existing rules that allow multiple creatures to occupy each other's space. The Claw likely has to use Ride checks on the gauntlet or at the very least the gauntlet has to carry the Crawling Claw somehow.

    A severed left hand surfing around on a Flying gauntlet sounds pretty badass though.



    As for magic rings on the gauntlet.. Can a character benefit from wearing a ring over a gauntlet? I do not know. I would say no unless a superpower of theirs allowed for it. Especially in the case of a potentially animated gauntlet.
    Additionally as soon as the gauntlet became a creature IT would benefit from the ring instead as the Crawling Claw now has a very distinct barrier of another creature's item slot between it and ring wearing-ness.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Similar question can be asked about a Humanoid in Animated Armor
    And - even if a Ring can't be worn over a Gauntlet - Cloak of Charisma definitely should be wearable over both Humanoid and Armor

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    And if the ring is animated too?

    will the ring itself be the only one to benefit?

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    To my knowledge if an item is a creature it has to be a symbiont in order to ride another creature and also grant item-like benefits.

    So if the ring is animated then it wouldn't count as worn anymore because the riding rules, the grapple rules, and other such whatnot get in the way.


    A ring is small enough that it can occupy a medium creatures space with no penalty iirc.
    But, the gauntlet is too close to the rings size so those two don't get to occupy the same space penalty free.

    I think.

    The point being these are interactions that aren't described very well jn the existing rules so anything we come up with is a pastiche of other slightly applicable rules.

    So you'll have to consult with your GM to know exactly how they're comfortable ruling on things like this.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    To my knowledge if an item is a creature it has to be a symbiont in order to ride another creature and also grant item-like benefits.
    What about the items with Ego score? They are creatures, right?

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    As for magic rings on the gauntlet.. Can a character benefit from wearing a ring over a gauntlet? I do not know. I would say no unless a superpower of theirs allowed for it.
    Yes, they absolutely can. There is no conflict between your gloves slot and your rings slots.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    Similar question can be asked about a Humanoid in Animated Armor
    And - even if a Ring can't be worn over a Gauntlet - Cloak of Charisma definitely should be wearable over both Humanoid and Armor
    Two thin people stand right against each other and stretch a cloak across both their shoulders. Who gets the benefit?

    The answer's not "both" IMO. I'd say the entity who takes the action to don it gets first dibs, but they can forgo that and allow the other to get the benefit instead

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Yes, they absolutely can. There is no conflict between your gloves slot and your rings slots.
    Except your ring slot is on you, not on your gauntlet.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by unseenmage View Post
    Except your ring slot is on you, not on your gauntlet.
    I was answering the question of whether a character could benefit from a ring and a gauntlet at the same time.
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    What about the items with Ego score? They are creatures, right?
    IIRC, they are "treated as" or "considered to be" creatures, which is a subtly different wording than outright saying "these are creatures and follow all relevant rules pertaining to creatures".

    I'm not sure if RAW backs this up, but logically (to me, anyhow) there is a difference between wearing an inanimate intelligent item, and wearing an animated object which is a creature in the true D&D definition of the word.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by icefractal View Post
    Two thin people stand right against each other and stretch a cloak across both their shoulders. Who gets the benefit?

    The answer's not "both" IMO. I'd say the entity who takes the action to don it gets first dibs, but they can forgo that and allow the other to get the benefit instead
    Good point!
    But it still leaves the question: does the Animated Armor benefits from its own Armor Special Abilities(/enhancement bonus/special materials/masterwork qualities)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    IIRC, they are "treated as" or "considered to be" creatures, which is a subtly different wording than outright saying "these are creatures and follow all relevant rules pertaining to creatures".
    No "treated as" there: if it have Wis and Cha scores - then it's a creature - not an object

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I'm not sure if RAW backs this up, but logically (to me, anyhow) there is a difference between wearing an inanimate intelligent item, and wearing an animated object which is a creature in the true D&D definition of the word.
    Firstly - is there really anything which could stop a humanoid from putting on an Animated Armor?
    And secondly - Beetle Buckler (Arms and Equipment Guide) is actually a Tiny scarab beetle that latches onto the forearm.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Animated Object Shenanigans

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    No "treated as" there: if it have Wis and Cha scores - then it's a creature - not an object.
    I was thinking of the section on intelligent magic items:

    Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs.
    So yes, the "treated as" was in reference to Construct, not being a creature.

    Interesting call on the Buckler Beetle, but don't you "ready" a shield as opposed to "wearing" it? There is no shield slot, as such.

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