Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

[LibraryOgre]

The only people Daeran actually treats with disdain are 1) nobles, or 2) pious, or especially 3) both.

Ember is neither.

There's no n in Arueshalae's name.

Staunton thinks of himself, rightly or wrongly, as a victim of the crusaders; he's not so far-gone as not to recognize that the child who lost three fingers and her father to the crusaders' attempt to burn her alive is someone who deserves at least as much sympathy as he does.

I confess i think Divine weapon is to big a bonus to give up on in larger battles. Holy is almost always useful. Axomatic the same. Disruption is situational useful.
When you need brilliant energy you badly wish you have it.

Might have to take a second look at it. Having those extra sacks of HP are just so USEFUL.

It would be wonderful if there were a mythic ability to let you have both.

Im honestly not entirely certain how viable it is. You need a major investment into spell penetration to get through late game enemies SR.
But you can of course always respect. Let us know how it works.

I've already respecc'd him away from Sword Saint. It was an utter pants build and, TBH, I don't think I'm that fond of the magus, overall.

Eh? self confessed masochist?
Well im not judging

The first time, it really sucks. The subsequent times, when you know what's happening, and what's going on? Fun and crazy.

"Oh, look Lann has been enlarged. He is now just exploding things, and can reach almost the entire screen from here."
As a drovier, I had him Entangle the main entrance. Seelah and Lann's leopard ran around there, murdering incoming troops, while Nenio and Ember sat on the roof, sniping, casting, and sleeping foes. Throw a create pit into an Entangle and none of them are getting out, especially with Ember putting them all to sleep. My MC hung out on the rooftops, killing people who got up there, and using Grease to keep them from moving too much.

And he is kinda interesting as a villain. You certainly can make an argument for it being a case of the Crusaders screwing up.

They just had him eating **** for seventy years. Like, yes, he did a horrible thing, but the degree to which is seems no one shows him kindness is depressing.

[Sloanzilla]

Ember and Daeran are basically why I'm in the "think this game is better than Kingmaker" camp.

Ember's goodness is a meta/modern goodness that at times feels like a critique of the DnD alignment system, or at least neutral good to the absolute level. "My being good means I actually care about everyone and hope for them, not just that I'm better at hitting people on the other side of the chart."

Daeran is well written, and is a kind of "evil-lite" where he often acts self absorbed, sure, but isn't a caricature. Seelah and Lann are also well done.

Honestly, the companions in this game felt as alive as any have since Alistair and friends in the first Dragon Age.

[Eldonauran]

Ember's goodness is a meta/modern goodness that at times feels like a critique of the DnD alignment system, or at least neutral good to the absolute level. "My being good means I actually care about everyone and hope for them, not just that I'm better at hitting people on the other side of the chart.

Hmm, I actually see it as the other way around. I feel that Ember is an actual representation of what a Neutral Good character SHOULD be like when the alignment system is properly represented in real gameplay. If she is a critique of anything, it is how modern players (ie, modern as in the last century) have allowed their own personal interpretations of real world morality to color their approach to D&D morality.

I actual admire Ember as a character, though there is something off about her that I cannot put my finger on. I haven't beaten the game yet, so I'm not going to speculate much, but I feel that either she is withholding something, or something is being withheld from her. Might have to do with that bird. Haven't trusted Ravens since Kingmaker.

[lord_khaine]

Might have to take a second look at it. Having those extra sacks of HP are just so USEFUL.

It would be wonderful if there were a mythic ability to let you have both.

Yeah initially im certain. Im just not certain if they scale well enough into the mid game to matter.
Things get -brutal- down the line.

And if your not buffing greater magic weapon on everyone, then divine weapon becomes even more valuable.

I've already respecc'd him away from Sword Saint. It was an utter pants build and, TBH, I don't think I'm that fond of the magus, overall.

You can make a Sword Saint/monk with a stupidly high AC. But yeah.
Part of the problem is the difficulty is so high here. That you need to specialize. The magus basically becomes a tank/haste bot.
You cant use spells against enemies because their SR is to high. And arcane weapon dont do much Greater Magic weapon dont before the ability to add Holy.
Adding d6 fire just gets resisted.

They just had him eating **** for seventy years. Like, yes, he did a horrible thing, but the degree to which is seems no one shows him kindness is depressing.

Problem is he didnt even do a directly horrible thing. He did a catastrophically stupid thing that had a horrible result.
But again the crusade history is littered with people doing dumb things.

Honestly, the companions in this game felt as alive as any have since Alistair and friends in the first Dragon Age.

Still not hitting the peak of the Torment crew though.
But again, thats likely a unreasonable target.

I actual admire Ember as a character, though there is something off about her that I cannot put my finger on. I haven't beaten the game yet, so I'm not going to speculate much, but I feel that either she is withholding something, or something is being withheld from her. Might have to do with that bird. Haven't trusted Ravens since Kingmaker.

According to Ember Soot is her friend who teaches her tricks.
Dont you think Ember is a better judge of character than you are?

[Anteros]

My take on Staunton is that he's more than done penance for his original mistake. The punishment he received was excessive. Then again, Galfrey is a blithering idiot and it's hardly her only or worst mistake.

That said....there's no excuse for his fall. If he's tired of being treated the way he is then leaving his post is entirely understandable. Siding with demons to murder and enslave a city full of innocents is not. Aside from which, my character was nothing but kind and respectful to him and he still tried to murder me multiple times.

[Sloanzilla]

Stuff I missed on the first run:
1. Apparently, at least one batch of Storyteller notes.
2. The guard guy who runs and hides in the mines during Act 5. Think I missed that entire quest line.
3. Didn't save cleric's brother due to bad dialog choices I guess
4. Didn't solve the Demodand conspiracy due to missing a DC 40 knowledge roll I guess
5. Never met the alchemist from the first game. Was that a random encounter?

[Eldonauran]

According to Ember Soot is her friend who teaches her tricks.
Dont you think Ember is a better judge of character than you are?

I think Ember is a HORRIBLE judge of character but the faith she places in people (and ... things) is ... inspiring. She knows that she can get hurt but doesn't actually let that realization stop her from doing what is right. She is probably the ONE character in the entire game that I actually believe is a beacon that points in the 'right' direction no matter what else is going on, but that doesn't mean something else less benevolent isn't using her for its own purposes.

I really, REALLY don't trust that Raven. At all.

[LibraryOgre]

I think Ember is a HORRIBLE judge of character but the faith she places in people (and ... things) is ... inspiring. She knows that she can get hurt but doesn't actually let that realization stop her from doing what is right. She is probably the ONE character in the entire game that I actually believe is a beacon that points in the 'right' direction no matter what else is going on, but that doesn't mean something else less benevolent isn't using her for its own purposes.

I really, REALLY don't trust that Raven. At all.

Interestingly, though, she seems to herself be a nihilist. She doesn't see what she says as offering hope, sees hope as a lie, sees faith as meaningless, etc.

[Eldonauran]

Interestingly, though, she seems to herself be a nihilist. She doesn't see what she says as offering hope, sees hope as a lie, sees faith as meaningless, etc.

In a setting such as the D&D/Pathfinder universe, she very well might be correct on that matter ... or simply ignorant of the greater truths that lay beyond her ability to reason as a mortal. When you've had a glimpse beyond the mortal realm, mortal struggles, decisions, and actions seem to lose their weight and importance under the scope of much larger things. But, she still persists in doing what is Good. Not her own particular take on what is Good, but that which aligns with the impersonal and fundamental force in the universe that represents that alignment.

As I said, I havent beaten the game yet or go to fully explore her story line which I suspect awaits in later chapters, but I am eager to see it. My time is somewhat limited for video games at the moment.

[LibraryOgre]

Anyone know if the All-skilled Superpower from the Azata overcomes arcane spell failure? Can my bard cast spells in heavy armor with this, for example?

[Taevyr]

Concerning Ember, there's a certain event in late-game Demon Path that implies there's something big supporting/protecting her:

Spoiler: Demon Path

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Namely, when you demonically smite every crusader in the city when you refuse to simply let them leave, after they declare their retreat to Mendev due to their unwillingness to continue to follow a Demon Commander.

The smite includes Anevia and every named crusader in the city. It even includes Sosiel and Seelah, who die on the spot with the rest of them. I don't know whether it includes Lann, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Notably, it doesn't include Ember. It's never mentioned by her, nor is she mentioned during the smiting, but she's perfectly fine. In an event that spells out that it "strikes again and again and again until every good crusader in the city is killed", she isn't even touched. Could just be some sort of oversight by Owlcat, but it really freaked my Commander out.

[lord_khaine]

I think Ember is a HORRIBLE judge of character but the faith she places in people (and ... things) is ... inspiring. She knows that she can get hurt but doesn't actually let that realization stop her from doing what is right. She is probably the ONE character in the entire game that I actually believe is a beacon that points in the 'right' direction no matter what else is going on, but that doesn't mean something else less benevolent isn't using her for its own purposes.

Spoiler: Spoiler level : Abyssal+

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Ember is able to read Noctia to some degree. Calling out later how her words did have an effect even if it didnt seem like at first.

She is even able to read the big secret of the freaking architech.

Interestingly, though, she seems to herself be a nihilist.

Im not entirely certain you could call her nihilistic.
She dont seems to think everything is meaningful. Just that relying on higher powers are.

[LibraryOgre]

Concerning Ember, there's a certain event in late-game Demon Path that implies there's something big supporting/protecting her:

That comes down to being a witch, though. IIRC, there was an early Religion or Arcana check you might make which says that her description of her Grandmother seems like a particular being

Im not entirely certain you could call her nihilistic.
She dont seems to think everything is meaningful. Just that relying on higher powers are.

Dammit, there's a quote from her, when you speak to her of hope, about hope being a lie. I cannot find the quote, however.

And, though it's been the easiest to find reference, does anyone else feel like the fextralife wiki is kinda weird and copypastad?

[Taevyr]

That comes down to being a witch, though. IIRC, there was an early Religion or Arcana check you might make which says that her description of her Grandmother seems like a particular being

Sure, but to have her outright be ignored by a city-wide smite of good people is quite direct in terms of influencing the material plane. I knew it has to be something powerful (especially once Ember got that 9th level "heavenly fire" spell), but I didn't expect such a no-sell.

[Sloanzilla]

Hmm, I actually see it as the other way around. I feel that Ember is an actual representation of what a Neutral Good character SHOULD be like when the alignment system is properly represented in real gameplay. If she is a critique of anything, it is how modern players (ie, modern as in the last century) have allowed their own personal interpretations of real world morality to color their approach to D&D morality.

I actual admire Ember as a character, though there is something off about her that I cannot put my finger on. I haven't beaten the game yet, so I'm not going to speculate much, but I feel that either she is withholding something, or something is being withheld from her. Might have to do with that bird. Haven't trusted Ravens since Kingmaker.

I mean those modern players got their viewpoints from somewhere in real life, and there's certainly no shortage of "us against them" morality in various aspects of the real world. And the game mechanics do have lots of smite evil/smite good options, which suggest a morality system that the "other" is enemy. Also, Ember is living in a world where there are gods- both those who wish us well and try to help us and those who enjoy our suffering. So bypassing all of that and just caring out everyone does feel...refreshing.

[LibraryOgre]

The alignment spells were no-goes for me. Chances are, I have a representative of most alignments in my party, and everything pretty quickly becomes scrum. They could work as first-strikes, but that's about it.

[Kish]

Dammit, there's a quote from her, when you speak to her of hope, about hope being a lie. I cannot find the quote, however.

It's something she says to Seelah in an interaction. Very nastily and aggressively actually, and Seelah brushes her off in a completely unsurprised, unperturbed fashion. That interaction...Does not seem like Ember. It seems to me like an example of sloppy editing: one of Regill's lines got given to Ember.

I suspect the "untouched by demonic smiting" thing might be about her being an atheist (or the Golarion equivalent thereof).

[lord_khaine]

If Ember said something about not being able to rely on the gods?
Then its quite likely her own line.
Was it the one about the gods not being able to help anyone?

[Kish]

Do I actually mean a line she says to Nocticula which is nothing like the one I described nor the one Mark asked about? I'm going to say no.

[lord_khaine]

If you cant be more specific than "does not sound like her"
Then you can hardly blame people for being forced to guess :P

[Calemyr]

I found Ember to be a very consistent character. She believes that evil is just a mistake that can be overcome with kindness and compassion, and that everyone in truth has a heart of gold that's just gotten covered in grime by circumstance in an uncaring world. She believes the gods are just as fallible and clueless as mortals, and they both can't and won't do anything to be of any meaningful help. You can't rely on gods to save you, you have to do it yourself. And hope isn't some mystical solution, but a lie we tell ourselves to get us through hard times - a useful tool, but not an actual reflection of reality. These aren't conflicting beliefs, but separate pillars of her world view.

Where it gets weird is how wrong or right she proves to be.

Spoiler: Secret Ending Spoilers

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If you get the "secret" ending with 5 or more fresh crystals, the charred waif gets a crash course in what it's like to have near divine authority and just how limiting it actually is. Even gods that truly care are overwhelmed by the worlds they care for and the limited resources they have at their disposal, and she has to rely on "Grandmother" for advice. Does that make her right? Wrong?

By the way, has anyone got on opinion on the first DLC? I haven't gotten to it yet, myself. Elden Ring has kinda swallowed my soul. The few takes I've heard have been mixed. Fun, in its way, but full of bad decisions such as not using a change of planes to isolate the DLC from the decisions you made in the main game, but still fails to take those decisions into account anyway.

[LibraryOgre]

I think I've started over twice since I last wrote.

So, I tried for a Trickster run, but then it said "You have to become CN" and I was like "Nope." So, I'm going to take Angel for 1 and 2, then switch to Azata when I free Dezen.

[Sloanzilla]

I completed the entire Trickster run as CG- and honestly a breath away from NG. When did it say you have to become CN?

[LibraryOgre]

I completed the entire Trickster run as CG- and honestly a breath away from NG. When did it say you have to become CN?

At the very least, I got a quest that wanted me to become CN.

And, TBH, I mostly did not understand how the trickster powers were supposed to work. ;-)

[Sloanzilla]

My understanding is you can be one step away from a given mythic alignment. Were you LG or NG?

I can possibly answer any specific questions about the trickster powers. I messed around with most of them.

On a related note. Why did the coders give every creature in the game an absurdly high perception roll?

[Sloanzilla]

Hey, are some of your companions magically restoring their spells and abilities in between saved games? Logged on this morning and everyone but my main character had all of their spells back- I hadn't rested.

[LibraryOgre]

My understanding is you can be one step away from a given mythic alignment. Were you LG or NG?

I can possibly answer any specific questions about the trickster powers. I messed around with most of them.

On a related note. Why did the coders give every creature in the game an absurdly high perception roll?

So, my first run at Trickster was Knowledge: Arcana. Is the bonus +1 only applying to things I newly ID? Is there a way to keep other people from IDing things?

[Sloanzilla]

Based on my experimentation:

It doesn't seem to matter who ID's the item. At least I think this is the case.

The tabulation of the item is weird- it doesn't formally change the "name" of the item or its sale price, but it does say "+6" or whatever within the text. It does change the calculation on hit or damage.