Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

[Chen]

Its good the difficulty settings are very granular because the power level of the various paths is also ridiculously varied. I played a pretty well optimized Azata bloodrager on my first playthrough and thingd were decent on normal difficulty. Im playing an Oracle with merged spellbook Angel and its just gross. The party wide buffs are insane and even though I focused almost entirely on melee I can still blast with the angel spells since they often have no SR or saves even. Its ridiculously OP.

[Mahasamatman]

In better news, they actually added a tutorial hint to how getting around in Act 4 works. Guess enough people complained about that? I've actually been quite enjoying that act quite a bit more than most people seem to.

That tutorial was present since launch. I've seen it when I played in the second week of September.

Huh, a redemption path? Does that make Devil a 'falling' path, then? Would make sense given some of the story developments and the presence of the hellknights in the story.

Devil path spoilers:

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Depending on your entry point and method - yes.

As an Azata, Devil is basically a "gullible idiot" path. You have an advisor by the name Early Sunset, who keeps giving you Lawful and Evil advice, and if you follow his advice you **** up your Azata things and people, and Early Sunset gloats but offers you devil-hood as a consolation prize.

As an Aeon, there are two possible approaches. Throughout the game you have to make judgments as part of your mythic quests. You have an advisor, a giant six-winged devil who is totally not Mephistopheles. You can make lawful and harsh judgments (True Aeon), merciful judgments (Renegade Aeon), or selfish and exploitative judgements that the devil suggests (Devil).

If the majority of your judgments weren't True Aeon, then by the end of act 4 you lose your Aeon powers - you can't change Xanthir's fate via time travel, and your Big Showdown Power Use at the start of act 5 fails - pick Legend instead.

Afterwards the devil invites you to a meeting at a crossroads where he lays out a deal. As a mortal time traveler, you are a threat to the Lawful world order that the Hell wants. So you can either die or take the job offer and become a Devil. Getting the job offer requires Diplomacy checks which are easier if you have a lot of Devil points.

Thus Aeon->Devil has three flavors:
1. True Aeon who either afraid of the Aeon mindset that they have to adopt come chapter 5, or afraid of Mephistophel and his threats.
2. Someone who is too merciful, lost the Aeon powers, and is now grasping at straws.
3. Someone who has always had the Devil mindset and is all too happy to get the offer.

[Theoboldi]

That tutorial was present since launch. I've seen it when I played in the second week of September.

Huh. Could have fooled me, with how many people I saw who didn't know that stuff. Maybe they just had tutorials turned off by that point? It does happen pretty late into the game.

Spoiler: Devil and Aeon path spoilers

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Well that does sound interesting! Though, above all I kinda am now interested in going Renegade Aeon into Legend. That sounds like a really cool story to play out.

[Mahasamatman]

Huh. Could have fooled me, with how many people I saw who didn't know that stuff. Maybe they just had tutorials turned off by that point? It does happen pretty late into the game.

Spoiler: Devil and Aeon path spoilers

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Well that does sound interesting! Though, above all I kinda am now interested in going Renegade Aeon into Legend. That sounds like a really cool story to play out.

The vast majority of people who complain about game mechanics never read the tutorials.

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That sounds cooler than it actually is. Like with all the other late-game path transitions, Legend completely abandons your previous plot threads and starts the Legend story instead. It's functionally identical whether you were an Aeon, a Lich, a Demon, or an Angel.

[Rynjin]

The vast majority of people who complain about game mechanics never read the tutorials.

Bit rude, given that this comes up about 40+ hours into the game and you have to turn off tutorials at some point or every. Single. Combat. Will keep repeating basic **** like how DR works.

[Mahasamatman]

Bit rude, given that this comes up about 40+ hours into the game and you have to turn off tutorials at some point or every. Single. Combat. Will keep repeating basic **** like how DR works.

Counter-argument. "Turn off the tutorials" button doesn't work, so "I turned off the tutorials" is not an excuse :P

[Anteros]

Counter-argument. "Turn off the tutorials" button doesn't work, so "I turned off the tutorials" is not an excuse :P

Counter-counter argument. Tutorials pop sporadically, and not when they'd even make sense a lot of the time because the game is a buggy mess. Lots of people report never getting that particular tutorial, and I absolutely believe them. I don't remember ever seeing it, and I always try to read them the first time a new one pops up. I had to google how it works.

[Theoboldi]

What the hell was that dungeon just now? XD

Spoiler: Temple of the Three

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Well, I knew the backer quests (which I've been told this was one of) were pretty bad, but what was up with that? Forced turn-based play in a scenario that did not at all require it, empty message boxes and enemies with literal placeholder names? I.....what? I'm not even mad, that was hilarious in how unfinished it was. Especially with how it revolved around that edgelord master strategist OC.

At least I got a pretty good reward out of him. Dunno whether me convincing him to betray the demons had any influence on that, but I'll happily take +1 to Master of Maneuvers on all of my generals, thank you very much. And though not really warranting the forced turn-based, at least the battle had a kind of fun gimmick without being too annoying about it.

Remind me to never waste money on getting my ideas into a video game, though.

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That sounds cooler than it actually is. Like with all the other late-game path transitions, Legend completely abandons your previous plot threads and starts the Legend story instead. It's functionally identical whether you were an Aeon, a Lich, a Demon, or an Angel.

Spoiler: Legend and Aeon spoilers

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I'm fine with that, honestly. The Legend path has a nice 'screw the cosmic forces!' vibe to it, so even if it breaks off the Aeon developments completely I can see myself having fun with it. It plays so nicely into what I'd want a renegade Aeon to be anyways.

[Sloanzilla]

How rigid are the mythic alignment requirements? Could I be a chaotic good trickster or do I have to be CN?

[Anteros]

How rigid are the mythic alignment requirements? Could I be a chaotic good trickster or do I have to be CN?

If you don't meet the appropriate alignment then you'll get a quest to change to it.

I haven't done Trickster, but I was playing Angel as neutral good instead of Lawful Good and there was no problem with it.

[DeTess]

How rigid are the mythic alignment requirements? Could I be a chaotic good trickster or do I have to be CN?

IIRC each mythic path allows the two adjacent alignments as well (So Azatha allows you to be NG and CN in addition to CG, and I presume trickster will allow all Chaotic alignments).

[Sloanzilla]

ok thank you both-

[Maryring]

You can also always be True Neutral.

Spoiler: Possible exception

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I've heard that Swarm is only NE or CE. Can't confirm that myself, but considering how horribly monstrous that path is, it wouldn't surprise me.

[Chen]

Once you do your actual transformation (Mythic rank 9 I believe) you get permanently shifted to the alignment of your path. You need to be 1 step away from the Path alignment at some point but I was never far enough off to need that quest.

[Theoboldi]

Spoiler: Logistics Rank 8 spoilers

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Whoo boy, I sure love having billions of each resource and a massive network of markets only to be told by the game that I am TOTALLY out of supplies and have to betray some of my allies.

And then the game doesnt even increase my actual rank, as though I messed up and hit a bad ending somehow.

Goddamn it, I want to love this game, but then it does crap like that.

At least other people who saw this seem to have gotten the good ending slice anyways, so it seems like I'm safe on that front. May go ahead and cheat the rank higher though, just to be on the safe side.

Good grief, I know Crusade Management is kind of a mess, but this takes the cake. Actually am mad about this one.

[Tome]

Spoiler: Logistics Rank 8 spoilers

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Whoo boy, I sure love having billions of each resource and a massive network of markets only to be told by the game that I am TOTALLY out of supplies and have to betray some of my allies.

And then the game doesnt even increase my actual rank, as though I messed up and hit a bad ending somehow.

Goddamn it, I want to love this game, but then it does crap like that.

At least other people who saw this seem to have gotten the good ending slice anyways, so it seems like I'm safe on that front. May go ahead and cheat the rank higher though, just to be on the safe side.

Good grief, I know Crusade Management is kind of a mess, but this takes the cake. Actually am mad about this one.

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That one pissed me off too. Like, I already resolved the political difficulties in Mendev. The queen is just loitering around in my war room if we need to send her back to restore order - literally standing closer to me than the advisor is! I have good diplomatic ties to a fairly long long list of nations. There are multiple clerics hanging around who could cast Create Food and Water, and I will happily ask Sosiel to spend all 60 or so of his 3rd level or higher spell slots on it each day if that will help (that's enough to feed 3,600 people each day if he has to).

And actually, we can do some farming because I'm an Azata and I've been renewing the land and growing forests all over the place. We even had a group of Azata who are noted as being really good at magically accelerating the growth of plants show up for a party, cater it... and then join the crusade.

Our logistics officer is crooked enough that I can't help but wonder if she's secretly sabotaging us like our leadership officer was.

[Theoboldi]

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That one pissed me off too. Like, I already resolved the political difficulties in Mendev. The queen is just loitering around in my war room if we need to send her back to restore order - literally standing closer to me than the advisor is! I have good diplomatic ties to a fairly long long list of nations. There are multiple clerics hanging around who could cast Create Food and Water, and I will happily ask Sosiel to spend all 60 or so of his 3rd level or higher spell slots on it each day if that will help (that's enough to feed 3,600 people each day if he has to).

And actually, we can do some farming because I'm an Azata and I've been renewing the land and growing forests all over the place. We even had a group of Azata who are noted as being really good at magically accelerating the growth of plants show up for a party, cater it... and then join the crusade.

Our logistics officer is crooked enough that I can't help but wonder if she's secretly sabotaging us like our leadership officer was.

Spoiler: Logistics Spoilers

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I will accept this as my headcanon as it is the only way I can reasonably believe any of what is happening. It is also now my headcanon that me not utilizing that final unlocked Decree is my Commander seeing through that carefully laid trap, and having the supply officer arrested off-screen.

That said...

Spoiler: Ending Spoilers

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....I did at least get the good outcome for the ending screen, so that went well. Which makes it all the weirder how despairing all the events were, only for that final text to tell me I masterfully handled my logistics.

What I really do not understand though is why at the same time, the game also told me that my crusade effort was only moderately successful. I literally destroyed all demons and maxed out everything other than fully upgrading each individual town. My morale never even went into the yellow. Such a bizarre result.


Anywho, fun ending otherwise! I managed to talk the Big Bad Sorceress with the overly long name into surrendering and sacrificing herself, though sadly I failed the final persuasion check to make Pharasma forgive her. At least I tried. I did get to permanently kill Deskari and burn his realm to cinders, which was a pretty nice post-finale encounter. That, plus becoming Iomedae's permanent champion on the material plane together redeemed demon wife was a great ending point for this character.

I will say the final dungeon wasn't all that impressive, and even Iz before it was pretty meh overall. But despite the visible results of time constraints, it was an enjoyable finale for its story beats.

Now to do it again!......In some time. Maybe an Evil build or Aeon. Perhaps even with a class I haven't played before, like Magus! I'll give it some time to cool before then, though. There's still plenty of bugs, and I am in no hurry to burn myself out on Wrath of the Righteous.

[Mahasamatman]

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That one pissed me off too. Like, I already resolved the political difficulties in Mendev. The queen is just loitering around in my war room if we need to send her back to restore order - literally standing closer to me than the advisor is! I have good diplomatic ties to a fairly long long list of nations. There are multiple clerics hanging around who could cast Create Food and Water, and I will happily ask Sosiel to spend all 60 or so of his 3rd level or higher spell slots on it each day if that will help (that's enough to feed 3,600 people each day if he has to).

And actually, we can do some farming because I'm an Azata and I've been renewing the land and growing forests all over the place. We even had a group of Azata who are noted as being really good at magically accelerating the growth of plants show up for a party, cater it... and then join the crusade.

Our logistics officer is crooked enough that I can't help but wonder if she's secretly sabotaging us like our leadership officer was.

Create Food/Water is a weak argument. These spells do not exist as far the game is concerned. Sosiel doesn't have them, they are never referenced in the game. Note that your own party has to harvest/buy food and use purifying solutions - not create food magically.

But if your crusade is doing well you can totally just pick the "We are not going to raid anyone" option. It has a good outcome.

[Anteros]

There's at least one npc that references the spell to create food in either chapter 2 or 3, so it does exist in universe.

I think there was a war table decision that references it too? Something about having clerics join your armies vs creating food and water for refugees or something like that.

[Tome]

Spoiler: Ending Spoilers

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....I did at least get the good outcome for the ending screen, so that went well. Which makes it all the weirder how despairing all the events were, only for that final text to tell me I masterfully handled my logistics.

What I really do not understand though is why at the same time, the game also told me that my crusade effort was only moderately successful. I literally destroyed all demons and maxed out everything other than fully upgrading each individual town. My morale never even went into the yellow. Such a bizarre result.


Anywho, fun ending otherwise! I managed to talk the Big Bad Sorceress with the overly long name into surrendering and sacrificing herself, though sadly I failed the final persuasion check to make Pharasma forgive her. At least I tried. I did get to permanently kill Deskari and burn his realm to cinders, which was a pretty nice post-finale encounter. That, plus becoming Iomedae's permanent champion on the material plane together redeemed demon wife was a great ending point for this character.

I will say the final dungeon wasn't all that impressive, and even Iz before it was pretty meh overall. But despite the visible results of time constraints, it was an enjoyable finale for its story beats.

Now to do it again!......In some time. Maybe an Evil build or Aeon. Perhaps even with a class I haven't played before, like Magus! I'll give it some time to cool before then, though. There's still plenty of bugs, and I am in no hurry to burn myself out on Wrath of the Righteous.

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You might be able to perma-kill Baphomet too.

If you go back to Baphomet's Labyrinth and talk to a certain ghost that appears in the outdoor section with the purple worm after you finish the area, you'll learn some information that lets you perma-kill both Baphomet and Deskari if Areelu can be convinced to help.

Though that might only be if you're on the secret ending route. And that also needs the completed lexicon, to have saved all of the records from Pulura's Falls, several research projects, and to enter the final area for the first time on a specific date. On top of speaking to the ghost and successfully convincing Areelu (which is itself something with a huge list of prerequisites, but it sounds like you did it if she sacrificed herself for you). The best version of it even requires you to have midnight bolt'd at least three other demon lords before that and also kept the purple stone knife.

[Theoboldi]

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You might be able to perma-kill Baphomet too.

If you go back to Baphomet's Labyrinth and talk to a certain ghost that appears in the outdoor section with the purple worm after you finish the area, you'll learn some information that lets you perma-kill both Baphomet and Deskari if Areelu can be convinced to help.

Though that might only be if you're on the secret ending route. And that also needs the completed lexicon, to have saved all of the records from Pulura's Falls, several research projects, and to enter the final area for the first time on a specific date. On top of speaking to the ghost and successfully convincing Areelu (which is itself something with a huge list of prerequisites, but it sounds like you did it if she sacrificed herself for you). The best version of it even requires you to have midnight bolt'd at least three other demon lords before that and also kept the purple stone knife.

Spoiler: Secret Ending stuff

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Yeah, I actually looked at a guide for the secret ending earlier, since I know it's supposed to be pretty much impossible to get without datamining or a guide, and killing both of them seems to be part of the secret route. From what I understand you can only get Areelu to help you do anything other than closing the worldwound if you get everything in place to ascend and get the secret ending.

Now, convincing her to close the worldwound was simple. All I accomplished for that was decipher the lexicon, be understanding to her only in the final dungeon, and then succeeded on a Persuasion check. It seems to be almost fully unrelated to the secret ending things that relate to her, given everything that I did not do right.

It might still be possible that you can kill both demon lords if you talk to that NPC, since I don't know what she tells you. Sadly, she didn't show up on my playthrough. I was using a different guide for the solutions on some of the puzzles in that area, and it made mention she would appear in that outdoors area after finishing the dungeon so i figured I would check that out. However, even after rescuing the Herald, there was nobody there I could talk to. Dunno if I missed the exact spot, the game bugged out, or I just messed up by killing her earlier. I think it's supposed to be Bahamut's daughter that shows up? Not sure on that.

[Tome]

Spoiler: Secret Ending stuff

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Yeah, I actually looked at a guide for the secret ending earlier, since I know it's supposed to be pretty much impossible to get without datamining or a guide, and killing both of them seems to be part of the secret route. From what I understand you can only get Areelu to help you do anything other than closing the worldwound if you get everything in place to ascend and get the secret ending.

Now, convincing her to close the worldwound was simple. All I accomplished for that was decipher the lexicon, be understanding to her only in the final dungeon, and then succeeded on a Persuasion check. It seems to be almost fully unrelated to the secret ending things that relate to her, given everything that I did not do right.

It might still be possible that you can kill both demon lords if you talk to that NPC, since I don't know what she tells you. Sadly, she didn't show up on my playthrough. I was using a different guide for the solutions on some of the puzzles in that area, and it made mention she would appear in that outdoors area after finishing the dungeon so i figured I would check that out. However, even after rescuing the Herald, there was nobody there I could talk to. Dunno if I missed the exact spot, the game bugged out, or I just messed up by killing her earlier. I think it's supposed to be Bahamut's daughter that shows up? Not sure on that.

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Yeah, it's Hepzamirah. Strange that she didn't show up. Did you try leaving and re-entering the area?

[Theoboldi]

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Yeah, it's Hepzamirah. Strange that she didn't show up. Did you try leaving and re-entering the area?

Spoiler: More Secret Ending Spoilers

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I don't think there's a way to do that, actually. As far as I'm aware the labyrinth closes you in after you've entered, and all the entrances do seal up after you leave.

From what I've read, there might actually be another area that's part of where you fight the Father of Worms which I didn't explore, and that's where Hepzamirah is? In that case, it's most likely that she's just really well hidden. Oh well, I'll see about her once I do my next playthrough. Don't think I'm gonna go for the full secret ending though, both because it's non-canon anyways and also because I can't be bothered.


By the way, today I learned that literally all of the finale after Iz is completely made up for the game. Turns out in the original adventure path, Iz is the final dungeon and Deskari is the actual final boss. Kind of crazy to think about everything they added and changed for the game.

[Chen]

Spoiler: More Secret Ending Spoilers

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I don't think there's a way to do that, actually. As far as I'm aware the labyrinth closes you in after you've entered, and all the entrances do seal up after you leave.

From what I've read, there might actually be another area that's part of where you fight the Father of Worms which I didn't explore, and that's where Hepzamirah is? In that case, it's most likely that she's just really well hidden. Oh well, I'll see about her once I do my next playthrough. Don't think I'm gonna go for the full secret ending though, both because it's non-canon anyways and also because I can't be bothered.


By the way, today I learned that literally all of the finale after Iz is completely made up for the game. Turns out in the original adventure path, Iz is the final dungeon and Deskari is the actual final boss. Kind of crazy to think about everything they added and changed for the game.

Secret ending stuff

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She is near the area with the giant worm though you dont need to kill the worm to see her. You do need to deal with the herald though (either killing him completely or returning his heart and him trusting you). Then she tells you the secret which is that Archpriests of Demon Lords can summon their masters once a year or something AND their masters cannot refuse the summons. If you killed the appropriate archpriests of Deskari and Baphomet it turns out Areelu is the highest ranking priestess of each of them so she can summon both demon lords for you to permanently kill

[Tome]

Spoiler: More Secret Ending Spoilers

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I don't think there's a way to do that, actually. As far as I'm aware the labyrinth closes you in after you've entered, and all the entrances do seal up after you leave.

From what I've read, there might actually be another area that's part of where you fight the Father of Worms which I didn't explore, and that's where Hepzamirah is? In that case, it's most likely that she's just really well hidden. Oh well, I'll see about her once I do my next playthrough. Don't think I'm gonna go for the full secret ending though, both because it's non-canon anyways and also because I can't be bothered.


By the way, today I learned that literally all of the finale after Iz is completely made up for the game. Turns out in the original adventure path, Iz is the final dungeon and Deskari is the actual final boss. Kind of crazy to think about everything they added and changed for the game.

Spoiler

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I can confirm that it does not close up behind you after you leave. I actually forgot to talk to her on my first visit and had to return later.

[Theoboldi]

Secret ending stuff

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She is near the area with the giant worm though you dont need to kill the worm to see her. You do need to deal with the herald though (either killing him completely or returning his heart and him trusting you). Then she tells you the secret which is that Archpriests of Demon Lords can summon their masters once a year or something AND their masters cannot refuse the summons. If you killed the appropriate archpriests of Deskari and Baphomet it turns out Areelu is the highest ranking priestess of each of them so she can summon both demon lords for you to permanently kill

Spoiler: Secret Ending Stuff 2: Electric Boogaloo

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Oh, I see! Kind of an in-character oversight by Deskari and Baphomet there, but I won't question their short-sightedness. In any case, it really seems like I missed her particular area.

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I can confirm that it does not close up behind you after you leave. I actually forgot to talk to her on my first visit and had to return later.

Spoiler: Secret Ending Spoilers 3 and Knuckles

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......For real?

I'll admit I never tried it because all the entrances to the labyrinth were marked as closed in my game after I left, and I think the mouseover text or something else stated that I couldn't enter anymore.

By the way, today I learned that because of the reduced number of skills, Intelligence Bonuses only grant 0,5 extra skill points per level in both Kingmaker and WotR. Kind of an important fact to consider, given how the skill check DCs scale and you really do need every extra rank you can get.

[egrishadelina]

rly interesting but nothing understand)

[Spore]

With all the reported half-broken feats and mythic path features, the brick-wall that is Act 3 bosses and my "roleplaying" actually kinda ruining my party (I dont like Nenio, but I NEED a primary arcanist) I think I'll pause on WotR indefinitely. I never finished Kingmaker, I may try that, but to be perfectly honest, Wrath is nowhere near releasable.

I understand Owlcat Games gets more levity than a big publisher, but they have used up any good will they may have had with me. This game is a broken, laggy hot mess. It is a good game at its core, but I can't stand dealing with the bugs anymore.

[Eldonauran]

With all the reported half-broken feats and mythic path features, the brick-wall that is Act 3 bosses and my "roleplaying" actually kinda ruining my party (I dont like Nenio, but I NEED a primary arcanist) I think I'll pause on WotR indefinitely. I never finished Kingmaker, I may try that, but to be perfectly honest, Wrath is nowhere near releasable.

Why don't you replace her with a mercenary? That's what I do when I don't like a particular character but need their niche filled.

I am curious about what kind of team you are running that is giving you trouble with the bosses. What difficulty are you playing on?

[Anteros]

Eh, I gave up on the game eventually too after about 5 different times quitting and coming back. It's just not worth the stress.