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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    ok that makes sense- I've probably got it on point blank must happen

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    First major bug! Complete crash when I try to get into Chilly Creek.

    On a more mundane note- is spirited charge worth taking considering the game mechanics? I get a full attack if I ride up to someone and attack- so wouldn't that generally be better than spirited charge other than times when I can only do a partial charge?

    I love the Heroes of Might and Magic battle map. It's a fun change.

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloanzilla View Post
    First major bug! Complete crash when I try to get into Chilly Creek.

    On a more mundane note- is spirited charge worth taking considering the game mechanics? I get a full attack if I ride up to someone and attack- so wouldn't that generally be better than spirited charge other than times when I can only do a partial charge?

    I love the Heroes of Might and Magic battle map. It's a fun change.
    Doesn't Spirited Charge double all your attack damage?
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    I'm going to check that- not sure how the dynamics work in terms of mounted charging

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    It's a great game- well written- reasonable take on alignment issues- crusade mode is fun too

    As others have pointed out- the game's fatal flaw is the whole armor class auction thing- do I hear 65? 65 how about 70? yuck. but fun otherwise

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloanzilla View Post
    reasonable take on alignment issues
    Wrath has many good things, but alignment is NOT one of them.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Strongly disagree

    Kingmaker's Lawful Good- was "Attack anything that doesn't look like you"- and many of the alignment choice charts just didn't seem logical.

    I feel like there's a lot more subtle dialog on this one. Seelah is not a carbon copy of a straight laced paladin. Lann is a decent guy who can kind of see where the hellknights are coming from. Daeran is selfish, but also believable.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Kingmaker had it's problems, but at least it tried to distinguish between various shades of lawful, chaotic, good and evil; removing those removed a lot of nuance in the alignment options, especially since you usually only get 1 response per alignment. As a result, chaotic tends to be either "random" or "FREEDOOOOOM", good is either ridiculously forgiving or a zealot, evil is "kill everything for evulz", and lawful's Judge Dredd. Mythic quests seem to be the only ones with some nuance, as they're already tied to said mythic's alignment.

    Kingmaker also wasn't quite as extreme with lawful good as you seem to posit.

    And it's worsened by the alignment grid being a circle: if you roleplay a corner alignment, you have to pick about equal amounts of both alignments or become partially neutral, which is just ridiculous.


    I do agree that the characters seem deeper/more nuanced, that's certainly an improvement.
    Last edited by Taevyr; 2021-12-20 at 11:45 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    I think part of my Kingmaker alignment complaints were related to the whole "Monster Kingdom" Chapter 2 part. There were several lawful good options on that fragment that just didn't seem very lawful, or good. And don't get me started on that one quest that the contest winner submitted where you have to help the pirate demon guy vs. the hellknights. I also think navigating Nyrissa as anything other than close to chaotic good was almost impossible.

    I mean if the mythic quests have nuance and the characters have more nuance--that seems like a pretty good effort? But yeah, I guess my point is more specifically "I think the NPC's in Wrath play their alignment well" than anything else related to alignment.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Biggest problem with Wrath's alignment system is the circle thing. Your paladin should not be able to fall because he made a good choice and it pushed him over from lawful into neutral good. Especially since a lot of the lawful options in that game come across as kinda evil. I eventually used a mod to turn alignment restrictions (and a lot of other tedious nonsense) off and was happier for it.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sloanzilla View Post
    I think part of my Kingmaker alignment complaints were related to the whole "Monster Kingdom" Chapter 2 part. There were several lawful good options on that fragment that just didn't seem very lawful, or good. And don't get me started on that one quest that the contest winner submitted where you have to help the pirate demon guy vs. the hellknights. I also think navigating Nyrissa as anything other than close to chaotic good was almost impossible.

    I mean if the mythic quests have nuance and the characters have more nuance--that seems like a pretty good effort? But yeah, I guess my point is more specifically "I think the NPC's in Wrath play their alignment well" than anything else related to alignment.
    I can agree with that: I do remember the lawful good option to deal with the monsters being "I get you want to protect your home, but you attacked my citizens and have to die now" which.... isn't quite lawful good. And the less said about that god-awful hellknight "look how awesome this DMPC is" quest, the better.

    And I think it might actually be impossible to access some of the Nyrissa choices without being chaotic good. Or at the very least one of the two when the alignment-locked choice has to be made.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    On a different note- is the Shattered Defenses/Trickster- Persuasion 1- combination as good as it looks?

    Trickster looks SO fun! I want to try all of the different nifty uberskill options

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Biggest problem with Wrath's alignment system is the circle thing. Your paladin should not be able to fall because he made a good choice and it pushed him over from lawful into neutral good. Especially since a lot of the lawful options in that game come across as kinda evil. I eventually used a mod to turn alignment restrictions (and a lot of other tedious nonsense) off and was happier for it.
    That was a big problem I had with Kingmaker; I wasn't a Paladin, but I really wanted the Lawful option during the Bloom, so I was a LG bard, and staying lawful was sometimes a dance.

    More generally:

    Started Wrath of the Righteous. Decided to more or less mimic my Kingmaker build (I'm comfortable with it), and sort of stumbled into a perfect character for the beginning part... an Asimaar bard (archaeologist) who is going to into Dragon Disciple, who happens to be LG and follow Iomedae. I did gold last time, but between the opening scene carnage and my portrait being the girl with white hair and eyes, I'm probably going silver, now. An early magical glaive moved my selection of Martial Weapons forward, because I like being melee reach with my main. And I figured out the color puzzle in the Maze! On my own! By looking at clues! With no walkthrough! I am proud of myself.

    The game as a whole gives me some Planescape: Torment vibes. Maybe it's the "rejected people under the city" thing, or the explicitly planar plot going on, but it was my first impression. Kingmaker felt more Baldur's Gate... local and personal. These are not criticisms, BTW... I like the tone of each (so far, on WotR), but it was an impression.
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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    That was a big problem I had with Kingmaker; I wasn't a Paladin, but I really wanted the Lawful option during the Bloom, so I was a LG bard, and staying lawful was sometimes a dance.

    More generally:

    Started Wrath of the Righteous. Decided to more or less mimic my Kingmaker build (I'm comfortable with it), and sort of stumbled into a perfect character for the beginning part... an Asimaar bard (archaeologist) who is going to into Dragon Disciple, who happens to be LG and follow Iomedae. I did gold last time, but between the opening scene carnage and my portrait being the girl with white hair and eyes, I'm probably going silver, now. An early magical glaive moved my selection of Martial Weapons forward, because I like being melee reach with my main. And I figured out the color puzzle in the Maze! On my own! By looking at clues! With no walkthrough! I am proud of myself.

    The game as a whole gives me some Planescape: Torment vibes. Maybe it's the "rejected people under the city" thing, or the explicitly planar plot going on, but it was my first impression. Kingmaker felt more Baldur's Gate... local and personal. These are not criticisms, BTW... I like the tone of each (so far, on WotR), but it was an impression.
    If you're into glaives, you won't be lacking for choice in WotR unless you dislike killing cultists. And even then.

    I've really liked the act 4 location thus far: had to get used to how things move at first, but I really like the feel and general construction of the city. Really comes together well in my view.

    Reminds me a bit of exploring every nook and cranny of Neketaka in Deadfire, though that seemed more freeform in comparison. And a bit more exploratory/dungeon delvy.
    Last edited by Taevyr; 2021-12-22 at 09:55 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    I have played a little bit.
    Can i just say that the Azeta path is freaking awesome in its implementation?
    Battle the forces of chaotic evil with song and creativity? Get a Dragon Friend? Yes please!
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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Out of all the paths I've played, Azata is by far my favourite. It feels a bit lacking in content compared to some other paths, but the flavour is 100% on point.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    And you have the sweetest, most adorable dragon ever as your sidekick!

    Seriously, Aivu sometimes makes me wanna cry with how precious she is.
    "Reach down into your heart and you'll find many reasons to fight. Survival. Honor. Glory. But what about those who feel it's their duty to protect the innocent? There you'll find a warrior savage enough to match any dragon, and in the end, they'll retain what the others won't. Their humanity."

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Haven't played Azata yet, though lately I have been busy doing my second playthrough as an Aeon. And genuinely, this path feels like it could have carried a smaller game entirely on its own. There's something awe-inspiring about how my character has become powerful to the point they can just fix certain situations with the wave of a hand, but also was required to become increasingly and frighteningly inhuman on his way there.

    It's incredibly melancholic, though, and I get the feeling it will become even more so if its going to end the way it seems like its going to end. I definitely will need the Azata playthrough after this.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archpaladin Zousha View Post
    And you have the sweetest, most adorable dragon ever as your sidekick!

    Seriously, Aivu sometimes makes me wanna cry with how precious she is.
    Aivu also gets ridiculously strong later on. I think at Mythic rank 8 she casts as a level 30 Oracle or something like that in addition to thr ridiculously strong breath weapon.

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Chen View Post
    Aivu also gets ridiculously strong later on. I think at Mythic rank 8 she casts as a level 30 Oracle or something like that in addition to thr ridiculously strong breath weapon.
    But then what would Darien do? He's the only companion in the game I actually like.

    I haven't done Azata, but the angel path was pretty neat. At least, seeing all the angels running around your base. I was playing a martial class so I didn't get to enjoy the full brokeness of adding the angel's caster levels to mine. I remember it gave permanent haste along with a ton of other useful buffs though, so still strong. I didn't finish the game. Act 4 was such a slog that by the time I hit act 5 I just had no more motivation for it.

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    But then what would Darien do? He's the only companion in the game I actually like.

    I haven't done Azata, but the angel path was pretty neat. At least, seeing all the angels running around your base. I was playing a martial class so I didn't get to enjoy the full brokeness of adding the angel's caster levels to mine. I remember it gave permanent haste along with a ton of other useful buffs though, so still strong. I didn't finish the game. Act 4 was such a slog that by the time I hit act 5 I just had no more motivation for it.
    Huh, I found myself enjoying act 4, even if it felt like an odd segue for the game to take. Could be due to demon path meshing with it better.

    Act 5..... yeah. It's a bit of a mess.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    I found traversing the city to be a slog. Plus all the bugs and the hundreds of loading screens. It just wasn't enjoyable to me anymore. I'm glad you liked it though.

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    But then what would Darien do? He's the only companion in the game I actually like.
    While Aivu is strong and has Oracle 30 casting, you also can't customise her spell choices or give her any mythic abilities and feats.

    (She does have a selection of metamagics though.)
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  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    She also had weapon focus dagger, IIRC. Which, being a dragon. Not ideal.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Well, I finally finished my first run through the game. Started on release day, beat the final boss last night. Aasimar Nature/Battle Oracle on the merciful Angel mythic path.

    Spoiler: Super Secret Spoilers
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    I learned about halfway through the game that there was the secret ascension ending. Turned out I had already been doing most of the legwork for it already, so I decided to aim for it intentionally. Missed out on Areelu ascending with me but I got enough crystals for all my companions in the end.

    Unfortunately, I missed getting to keep Wenduag and chose to kill Camilla, but otherwise I finished all my companions' questlines. Also ended up not finishing off the whole crusade since Gozran 16 came in the middle of my stat grinding. But otherwise, I 100%ed as much as I could. Looking at the achievements, I missed the following:
    The Water elemental
    Unlocking the Trickster path
    Summoning and killing the nabasu in Kenabres
    Dealing with the demodands (no idea what to do with this one)
    Finding the Pathetic Quasit
    Missed one or maybe two Elven notes.

    All in all, I found it to be a really great game buried under some frustrating game design decisions. Oh, and I absolutely hated Enigma. I think that bogged me down for about a month as I slogged through it.


    Any recommendations for what I should do as run #2?
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  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by RayGallade View Post
    Oh, and I absolutely hated Enigma. I think that bogged me down for about a month as I slogged through it.

    Any recommendations for what I should do as run #2?
    I entered Enigma, walked around for a while, got utterly frustrated, and realized that I've luckily got a protagonist who isn't about to charge into a demon's demesne without some personal benefit. Might come back after finishing the game for a better wrap-up, but for now I'm happily skipping it.

    Run two... I enjoyed demon path thus far, and demonic charge + longbow slayer= mythic kiter, so that's been fun. I doubt I'll immediately start a new run once I'm done though: too much bugs that need to be fixed and act 5 has been a bit of a slog this far. It'll be good to return after giving it a breather.

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by RayGallade View Post
    Well, I finally finished my first run through the game. Started on release day, beat the final boss last night. Aasimar Nature/Battle Oracle on the merciful Angel mythic path.

    Spoiler: Super Secret Spoilers
    Show
    I learned about halfway through the game that there was the secret ascension ending. Turned out I had already been doing most of the legwork for it already, so I decided to aim for it intentionally. Missed out on Areelu ascending with me but I got enough crystals for all my companions in the end.

    Unfortunately, I missed getting to keep Wenduag and chose to kill Camilla, but otherwise I finished all my companions' questlines. Also ended up not finishing off the whole crusade since Gozran 16 came in the middle of my stat grinding. But otherwise, I 100%ed as much as I could. Looking at the achievements, I missed the following:
    The Water elemental
    Unlocking the Trickster path
    Summoning and killing the nabasu in Kenabres
    Dealing with the demodands (no idea what to do with this one)
    Finding the Pathetic Quasit
    Missed one or maybe two Elven notes.

    All in all, I found it to be a really great game buried under some frustrating game design decisions. Oh, and I absolutely hated Enigma. I think that bogged me down for about a month as I slogged through it.


    Any recommendations for what I should do as run #2?
    Probably for the best. I can't imagine giving
    Spoiler
    Show
    Wendaug or Camilla divine power
    would end well for anyone involved. Honestly, I'm not sure I'd trust any of the companions with it if it comes down to it. Even the ones who are genuinely good people are more likely to do harm than good through sheer stupidity.

    If you're going to do a second run, maybe Lich for the different companions?
    Last edited by Anteros; 2021-12-25 at 06:22 PM.

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Apparently Wenduag's romance is very good, and changes her a lot? Haven't done it.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Quote Originally Posted by tonberrian View Post
    Apparently Wenduag's romance is very good, and changes her a lot? Haven't done it.
    Wait, you mean to tell me that the psycho half spider that repeatedly murders everyone around her wasn't your first romance choice?

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: Wrath of the Righteous: The Video Game

    Spoiler: Wenduag Romance Spoilers
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    So, I haven't done it myself, but I have read up on it. Apparently there are two possible ways for Wenduag's romance to progress. Normally, you get a pretty standard evil romance where Wenduag stays as she is and you continue to be a happy, but evil couple, albeit with a somewhat shallow relationship. However, by taking very specific choices, you can encourage Wenduag to open up more instead, teaching her how to trust people and believe in something more than just personal power again.

    This, as you can imagine, is extremely difficult to actually get. You already have to make the right choices in any conversation to prevent Wenduag from betraying you eventually by being a strict master, but now you also need to strike a balance with showing her tenderness and affection while giving her the space and time she needs to change. There's at least two guides out there that I've seen, and it's probably the one romance that rivals the hidden one from the first game in complexity.

    Now, as to what character would reasonably make the choices that would lead them onto this romance path, I cannot possibly tell you. The writers went way too hard on making Wenduag as awful a person as possible when you first meet her, and the only way to even get started on redeeming her is by having a character who wants to boink that horrible person that she is at first.

    Maybe a main character who starts out awful but slowly redeems themselves over the course of the game would make sense? You'd genuinely have to build and prepare for it, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezekielraiden View Post
    You don't win people over by beating them with facts until they surrender; at best all you've got is a conversion under duress, and at worst you've actively made an enemy of your position.

    You don't convince by proving someone wrong. You convince by showing them a better way to be right. The difference may seem subtle or semantic, but I assure you it matters a lot.

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