Does this work?

[jaappleton]

As a Chronurgist Wizard

Can I utilize Arcane Abeyance to create a mote of Sickening Radiance, and give it to a party member.
Then during battle, they cast it. The way I read it, THEY concentrate on Sickening Radiance, not me.
I then cast Wall of Force over much of the same area, trapping enemies inside and they essentially cook to death.

Does this work?

[Amnestic]

It does, yes.
Doesn't even need to be another party member - a familiar can do it for you as well.
It's a potent wombocombo for sure.

[jaappleton]

It does, yes.
Doesn't even need to be another party member - a familiar can do it for you as well.
It's a potent wombocombo for sure.

Wait, the familiar can utilize the mote from Arcane Abeyance?

Seriously?

This is... This is insane.

[Kuulvheysoon]

There are multiple reasons that I outright ban that book from my table. You have discovered one of them.

[jaappleton]

There are multiple reasons that I outright ban that book from my table. You have discovered one of them.

In fairness, this can be done with any pair of casters with these spells available. And there's numerous alternatives to Sickening Radiance.

[Unoriginal]

Wait, the familiar can utilize the mote from Arcane Abeyance?

Seriously?

This is... This is insane.

Matt Mercer has no concept of nor desire for balancing casters, and whoever finalized that subclass either shared that trait or didn't think things through.

Could be worse, though. One of the spells in Critical Role that didn't make it in the book is basically "you summon an echo of yourself, who is basically a Simulacrum but cheaper". The Wizard started using it at around lvl 12.

[Amnestic]

Wait, the familiar can utilize the mote from Arcane Abeyance?

Seriously?

This is... This is insane.

They can indeed. Using the mote requires no command word or special appendages (like "hands") to do, you simply need to "use your action", which familiars can do freely. A flying familiar is likely preferable of course - Owls are a classic - but reasonably any familiar would work for this.

Chronurgist is a very strong wizard subclass.

[PhoenixPhyre]

There's a reason why, when a player expressed an interest in it, I instead created my own "Time Mage" subclass. Because like many things CR, its sense of balance is...hilariously bad. Each and every significant feature has most of an entire wizard sub-class's power budget shoved in.

My impression of all CR content has been similar--it's like bad homebrew (which I know about, having written lots in my time). Way overstuffed with powerful features. Reminds me of the struggle KorvinStarmast and I went through trying to cut down a Dragon Knight class that a player really wanted to play into something that makes any kind of sense. "What if you took the BM ranger, except gave it a fully-functioning, independent, intelligent pet AND gave that pet extra abilities, while giving the ranger an entirely separate subclass that's as strong as a full class, plus a bunch of other base class abilities that are each the size of a subclass?"

[Pixel_Kitsune]

I think I'm with Jaapleton here. Not sure how it's that unbalanced.

A specific class, with advance set up, can maintain two concentrations once per rest.

Yeah that's super powerful in some vacuums and set ups. But lots of things are. And it's not THAT much higher in power than a Warlock by themselves throwing down Sickening Radiance and using Eldritch Blast push and pull to force things into it.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I think I'm with Jaapleton here. Not sure how it's that unbalanced.

A specific class, with advance set up, can maintain two concentrations once per rest.

Yeah that's super powerful in some vacuums and set ups. But lots of things are. And it's not THAT much higher in power than a Warlock by themselves throwing down Sickening Radiance and using Eldritch Blast push and pull to force things into it.

Adding it to the wizard, who is already pushing the power budget, plus the other features they get? And concentrating on two things is one of the specific cases that the DMG warns not to do.

You can't analyze features in a vacuum. And the Chronurgist is stapling a very out-of-band (compared to the other wizard sub-classes) subclass onto an already pushing-the-boundaries class.

[jaappleton]

Adding it to the wizard, who is already pushing the power budget, plus the other features they get? And concentrating on two things is one of the specific cases that the DMG warns not to do.

You can't analyze features in a vacuum. And the Chronurgist is stapling a very out-of-band (compared to the other wizard sub-classes) subclass onto an already pushing-the-boundaries class.

FWIW
I never said it wasn't unbalanced.

I was much more curious about the validity of the combo with Sickening Radiance with Wall of Force, and if WoF would in some way prevent SR from working.

I don't think a singular PC doing this is that OP. Its very strong, for sure. It's absolutely borderline on thr OP scale. But I question if it's OMGSUPERBROKENLOL levels.

It's still two separate characters (or in this case, a familiar) utilizing Concentration. Concentration can still be broken. The familiar doesn't have Resilient: Con or anything.

Additionally, a combo like this utilizes solely the action of two creatures for the initial round. That's it.

While absolutely very unusual for a Familiar to be able to do something as powerful as cast a 4th level spell, this could also be done by the Thief Rogue, the Samurai Fighter, or anyone else that'd typically not utilize their Concentration. And they would likely have a much easier time maintaining Concentration than the Familiar.

[PhoenixPhyre]

FWIW
I never said it wasn't unbalanced.

I was much more curious about the validity of the combo with Sickening Radiance with Wall of Force, and if WoF would in some way prevent SR from working.

I don't think a singular PC doing this is that OP. Its very strong, for sure. It's absolutely borderline on thr OP scale. But I question if it's OMGSUPERBROKENLOL levels.

It's still two separate characters (or in this case, a familiar) utilizing Concentration. Concentration can still be broken. The familiar doesn't have Resilient: Con or anything.

Additionally, a combo like this utilizes solely the action of two creatures for the initial round. That's it.

While absolutely very unusual for a Familiar to be able to do something as powerful as cast a 4th level spell, this could also be done by the Thief Rogue, the Samurai Fighter, or anyone else that'd typically not utilize their Concentration. And they would likely have a much easier time maintaining Concentration than the Familiar.

I'm not even talking about that specific combo. Having two concentration spells up at once is huge. Especially when the concentration is maintained by someone else but uses your modifiers. Also, since you can pre-cast it, you've got twin spell...except way way better and way way cheaper. On a better chassis for such things.

[jaappleton]

I'm not even talking about that specific combo. Having two concentration spells up at once is huge. Especially when the concentration is maintained by someone else but uses your modifiers. Also, since you can pre-cast it, you've got twin spell...except way way better and way way cheaper. On a better chassis for such things.

Ah, you're referring more to the ability of having a Familiar utilize Concentration on a spell?

Yeah thats.... Questionable, to say the least.

[RSP]

Not to mention this ability can give the entire party their own familiars, so, just in case the Wizard’s owl gets nuked, there’s plenty more potential familiars around to use the mote.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Ah, you're referring more to the ability of having a Familiar utilize Concentration on a spell?

Yeah thats.... Questionable, to say the least.

Even passing off the concentration to a non-familiar party member. Lets the Barbarian (with his epic CON saves) concentrate on Haste or Wall of Force or something, while you concentrate on something else. And doesn't cap on spell levels, and the DC for those spells is your DC.

[jaappleton]

Even passing off the concentration to a non-familiar party member. Lets the Barbarian (with his epic CON saves) concentrate on Haste or Wall of Force or something, while you concentrate on something else. And doesn't cap on spell levels, and the DC for those spells is your DC.

Can't Concentrate while raging.

But I see your point.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Can't Concentrate while raging.

But I see your point.

Ok, yeah. Bad example.

[Corey]

Basically that feature is a limited-functionality, no-attunement-required Ring of Spell Storing for the party.

And of course, since it's no-attunement, it can be used by different party members at different times.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

I'll again say I'm not seeing the issue. I see a lot of statements that it is an issue. I see the statements that the DMG recommends against it. But I don't see any real examples of it being a major issue.

You mention everyone having a familiar? A Ring of Spell Storing allows this. Worse, Ring of Spell Storing and a Bard means everyone could get Greater Steeds AND Familiars.

I'm just not seeing what 2 concentrations really does. Agree that it's powerful, but don't understand the concern.

For the rest of the class features..

Rerolls are comparable to the Diviner.

Initiative boosts are good but not unique

1 Round Banish could be cool, or utterly useless, and feeds off a Con save...

Their cap is powerful, but also incredibly dangerous. Last I checked the Berserker was seen as weak for an ability that forces exhaustion levels.

What double concentration abilities are we seeing as so powerful that this becomes a major issue vs just a strong choice?

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'll again say I'm not seeing the issue. I see a lot of statements that it is an issue. I see the statements that the DMG recommends against it. But I don't see any real examples of it being a major issue.

You mention everyone having a familiar? A Ring of Spell Storing allows this. Worse, Ring of Spell Storing and a Bard means everyone could get Greater Steeds AND Familiars.

I'm just not seeing what 2 concentrations really does. Agree that it's powerful, but don't understand the concern.

For the rest of the class features..

Rerolls are comparable to the Diviner.

Initiative boosts are good but not unique

1 Round Banish could be cool, or utterly useless, and feeds off a Con save...

Their cap is powerful, but also incredibly dangerous. Last I checked the Berserker was seen as weak for an ability that forces exhaustion levels.

What double concentration abilities are we seeing as so powerful that this becomes a major issue vs just a strong choice?

Let's just look at that--

You get better twin spell 1x/SR. Plus doubled concentration. That's a strong ability, as strong or stronger than any other wizard subclass feature. It's effectively most of a Rare item

You then also get the Diviner's best feature (or a close equivalent). At the same level.
You then also get initiative boosts. At the same level you got that previous feature. When everyone else's "other 2nd level feature" is a totally minor ribbon.
You then also get a fairly powerful (if not nearly as strong as the other boosts) resource-based (ie not spell-slot based) CC. And guaranteed concentration breaker against most of the "squishy casters" out there.
You then also get a powerful capstone.

Basically, every feature you get is either as strong as or stronger than most of the biggest other wizard subclass features. Where they get one good feature and the rest are pretty much ribbons or minor features. Plus, you get exclusive access to some relatively poorly-written (in a powerful way) spells.

[jaappleton]

Let's just look at that--

You get better twin spell 1x/SR. Plus doubled concentration. That's a strong ability, as strong or stronger than any other wizard subclass feature. It's effectively most of a Rare item

You then also get the Diviner's best feature (or a close equivalent). At the same level.
You then also get initiative boosts. At the same level you got that previous feature. When everyone else's "other 2nd level feature" is a totally minor ribbon.
You then also get a fairly powerful (if not nearly as strong as the other boosts) resource-based (ie not spell-slot based) CC. And guaranteed concentration breaker against most of the "squishy casters" out there.
You then also get a powerful capstone.

Basically, every feature you get is either as strong as or stronger than most of the biggest other wizard subclass features. Where they get one good feature and the rest are pretty much ribbons or minor features. Plus, you get exclusive access to some relatively poorly-written (in a powerful way) spells.

Have to agree with Phoenix here.

With all subclasses and classes, not just Wizard, you can give each feature a letter grade. A, B, C, D, F. Right?

Like the level 6 Paladin ability, the bonus to saving throws? I give that a pretty great rating. That's an A. Some other features, like the Vengeance Paladin level 7, where you move closer to a fleeing target? That's about a C.

So everything has a mix. Some A features which are spectacular, some B features, a few less than amazing features like Cs.... Hopefully no D features. Looking at you, PHB Ranger.

You usually get one A rating, then .aybe a C because the previous feature was so good, then a B as a reward for sticking with the class, then a capstone.

Chronurgy, IMO, doesn't have any single feature below a B grade. All of it, through and through, is quite good.

As a result, the sum of its parts is greater than pretty much any other Wizard subclass as a result.

[RSP]

Have to agree with Phoenix here.

Yeah the unique spells are a great benefit as well.

Though problems really arise with Simulacrum (surprise there), which can just use that capstone repeatedly with no real downside to the Chronurgist.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

Let's just look at that--

You get better twin spell 1x/SR. Plus doubled concentration. That's a strong ability, as strong or stronger than any other wizard subclass feature. It's effectively most of a Rare item

You then also get the Diviner's best feature (or a close equivalent). At the same level.
You then also get initiative boosts. At the same level you got that previous feature. When everyone else's "other 2nd level feature" is a totally minor ribbon.
You then also get a fairly powerful (if not nearly as strong as the other boosts) resource-based (ie not spell-slot based) CC. And guaranteed concentration breaker against most of the "squishy casters" out there.
You then also get a powerful capstone.

Basically, every feature you get is either as strong as or stronger than most of the biggest other wizard subclass features. Where they get one good feature and the rest are pretty much ribbons or minor features. Plus, you get exclusive access to some relatively poorly-written (in a powerful way) spells.

But let's look at the comparison. Yes, an Initiative boost is generally more useful than the base PHB classes cheaper spell learning, but is it better than granting weapon and armor proficiency you don't have (Bladesinger), or the Quill which has an extremely high end open to use and usefulness? War Mage has it too. And yes, I'd argue portent/chronal shift are equal to bladesong/awakened tome/War Magic.

1 Round disruption is strong. So is taking a Cantrip and a Melee attack, so is your spellbook as a scout/sort of familiar.

The Capstone is nice. So is, again, Bladesong's and Scribes.

Honestly, I'd absolutely agree it's a strong class, and that it's stronger in many ways than the PHB, but I don't see it above what we see in Tasha's. If anything I find the Graviturgy path to be a bit scarier. Though according to most things I've read it's judged weaker than almost anything.

[PhoenixPhyre]

But let's look at the comparison. Yes, an Initiative boost is generally more useful than the base PHB classes cheaper spell learning, but is it better than granting weapon and armor proficiency you don't have (Bladesinger), or the Quill which has an extremely high end open to use and usefulness? War Mage has it too. And yes, I'd argue portent/chronal shift are equal to bladesong/awakened tome/War Magic.

1 Round disruption is strong. So is taking a Cantrip and a Melee attack, so is your spellbook as a scout/sort of familiar.

The Capstone is nice. So is, again, Bladesong's and Scribes.

Honestly, I'd absolutely agree it's a strong class, and that it's stronger in many ways than the PHB, but I don't see it above what we see in Tasha's. If anything I find the Graviturgy path to be a bit scarier. Though according to most things I've read it's judged weaker than almost anything.

Let's compare Bladesinger to Chronurgy level by level. And note that Bladesinger is one of the more power-creep, bounds-pushing subclasses already.

2: Bladesinger gets proficiencies and bladesinging. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access (one of several such), +INT to initiative (!) and Chronal Shift. Advantage: Chronurgy, not even close.
3: Bladesinger gets nothing. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access
5: Bladesinger gets nothing. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access
6: Bladesinger gets Extra Attack. Chronurgy gets the stun feature. Honestly, I'd call this a push in most cases.
7: Bladesinger gets nothing. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access
9: Bladesinger gets nothing. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access
10: Song of Defense vs Arcane Abeyance. Not even close--Chronurgy wins by a large measure.
11: Bladesinger gets nothing. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access
13: Bladesinger gets nothing. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access
14: Song of Victory (+INT to weapon damage) vs Convergent Future (auto-success/failure of your choice on anyone you can see). Chronurgy by a large measure. SoV is at most +10 damage if you attack twice and hit with both; Convergent Future is huge and flexible.
15: Bladesinger gets nothing. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access
17: Bladesinger gets nothing. Chronurgy gets exclusive spell access

So lets see--Chronurgy wins handily in 3 of 4 cases where both get features, the other being a tie. And then goes on to get features[1] at each of the wizards normal dead levels (the odd ones). And remember, Bladesinger is one of the stronger subclasses. And Chronurgy beats it handily.

[1] Bonus spells on the list, especially exclusive ones absolutely are a feature. That's why those levels aren't truly dead for any wizard--they get new levels of spells.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

Except they only get exclusive spell access if you choose to rule it that way. The Plot/Story of Exandria is that Dunamancy is something relatively unknown, but last I read the rules don't explicitly say no to other wizards. (In fact, the Wizard who most often uses those spells in the campaign that gave birth to them is a Transmuter).

So that can all get set aside.

Level 2 Proficiencies and multiple use increase to AC, Concentration Checks, Acrobatics vs Initiative and a few forced rerolls. Toss up depending on if you prefer steady reliable vs limited and really impactful.

Level 6: Blades Inger gets Extra Attack and can use Cantrip, something no other class gets, vs the Stun. Again, different but comparable. One will give a constant increase in effectiveness, the other is a limited really impactful ability.

Level 10: More readily useable defenses vs a one slot RoST 1/LR. I'd give it to Chronurgy for which I feel is stronger, but again, it's a singular impactful moment vs a constant ability.

Level 14: A Flat boost to damage vs a significant ability that very quickly depletes you (Exhaustion levels). Again, do you want steady or impact?

Honestly, They're equal in my eyes, that might just have to be an agree to disagree (Nothing wrong there. :) ) But I just don't see it as a major issue.

I also can't help but note that I did ask if there were some Dual Concentration tricks that show why that particular ability is so dangerous, but I haven't seen any brought up outside of the original question. Does anyone have any?

[PhoenixPhyre]

Except they only get exclusive spell access if you choose to rule it that way. The Plot/Story of Exandria is that Dunamancy is something relatively unknown, but last I read the rules don't explicitly say no to other wizards. (In fact, the Wizard who most often uses those spells in the campaign that gave birth to them is a Transmuter).

So that can all get set aside.

Level 2 Proficiencies and multiple use increase to AC, Concentration Checks, Acrobatics vs Initiative and a few forced rerolls. Toss up depending on if you prefer steady reliable vs limited and really impactful.

Level 6: Blades Inger gets Extra Attack and can use Cantrip, something no other class gets, vs the Stun. Again, different but comparable. One will give a constant increase in effectiveness, the other is a limited really impactful ability.

Level 10: More readily useable defenses vs a one slot RoST 1/LR. I'd give it to Chronurgy for which I feel is stronger, but again, it's a singular impactful moment vs a constant ability.

Level 14: A Flat boost to damage vs a significant ability that very quickly depletes you (Exhaustion levels). Again, do you want steady or impact?

Honestly, They're equal in my eyes, that might just have to be an agree to disagree (Nothing wrong there. :) ) But I just don't see it as a major issue.

I also can't help but note that I did ask if there were some Dual Concentration tricks that show why that particular ability is so dangerous, but I haven't seen any brought up outside of the original question. Does anyone have any?

Remember, Bladesinger is already near the top end of the wizard power list, along with scribes. Because Tasha's Cauldron of Powercreep. Compare it to a PHB subclass and it's not even a mildly reasonable comparison. And Bladesinger mostly improves to mediocre something that wizards struggle with (melee). So unless you're a gish, it's weak. Chronurgy increases their strengths significantly. One is much more an issue than the other.

They get spells added to their list. That no one else gets, by default. Those spells are not on the standard wizard list. And the text (remember, there is no fluff/crunch distinction) tells you that they're exclusive. That's a feature, and a mighty big one.

And any dual concentration is risky--that's why it's a Rare-level item. And in this case, the Chronurgy one stacks with those. Handing someone haste while the wizard concentrates on a control spell (something normally not possible). Concentration on two control spells. That feature alone is roughly equivalent to most of the PHB sub-classes in their entirety. And when you use simulacrum or even just a familiar, the cheese levels rise immensely.

Is it the most out of balance subclass ever? No. Is it out of balance? I'd say yes.

Oh, and to make use of that extra attack you have to invest rather heavily in DEX, making you DAD.

[Pixel_Kitsune]

Remember, Bladesinger is already near the top end of the wizard power list, along with scribes. Because Tasha's Cauldron of Powercreep. Compare it to a PHB subclass and it's not even a mildly reasonable comparison. And Bladesinger mostly improves to mediocre something that wizards struggle with (melee). So unless you're a gish, it's weak. Chronurgy increases their strengths significantly. One is much more an issue than the other.

They get spells added to their list. That no one else gets, by default. Those spells are not on the standard wizard list. And the text (remember, there is no fluff/crunch distinction) tells you that they're exclusive. That's a feature, and a mighty big one.

And any dual concentration is risky--that's why it's a Rare-level item. And in this case, the Chronurgy one stacks with those. Handing someone haste while the wizard concentrates on a control spell (something normally not possible). Concentration on two control spells. That feature alone is roughly equivalent to most of the PHB sub-classes in their entirety. And when you use simulacrum or even just a familiar, the cheese levels rise immensely.

Is it the most out of balance subclass ever? No. Is it out of balance? I'd say yes.

Oh, and to make use of that extra attack you have to invest rather heavily in DEX, making you DAD.

I tend to look at the balance of all material. So I suppose if you're argument is rather or not X is stronger than PHB only, sure, I can agree with that. Some PHB things are weaker, some are stronger, just kind of how it goes.

The text tells you that in Exandria only the specialty schools get them but that the DM makes the call for their games and worlds. Kind of similar to how the spells in Xanathar's and Tasha's aren't guarunteed on the spell lists either. I think we're just going to be at an impasse here but given the text doesn't read the way you interpret it IMO and the fact that the first PC to make use of Dunamancy was in fact not a Chronurgist at all, I'm thinking we're okay.

As for SAD vs MAD. Generic Wizard CAN just go Int, Con, Dump all, but most don't. Also, you could Multiclass with Battle Smith too. But either way, it's not a big deal if the character is being built that direction from the get go.

And lastly, again, you're stating dual concentration = bad. But no examples. I'm not saying I even disagree with you (Though obviously I do at present) I'm saying I can't really find any major issues in having two spells at once, not in experience, not in theory crafting. The closest to an example you've given is mentioning shenanigans with Simulacrum, but if a player wants to spend the expensive material components to pre-cast it early so it can go off fast? Cool. But not OP.

[RSP]

The text tells you that in Exandria only the specialty schools get them but that the DM makes the call for their games and worlds.

RAW, the only way to get them is through the Mercer subclasses:

“Chronurgy Magic lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a wizard spell.”

There is no corresponding RAW of “other subclasses get this as well.” Some DMs will decide to have anyone take the new spells, some won’t.

Case in point: my table’s currently running Dragon Heist in the Forgotten Realms. Another Player is running a Chronurgist. I asked if my sorcerer has access to the Dunamancy spells and was told no, that it’s part of the Chronurgist’s kit.

So, yes, a DM can change access to the spells, but assuming a DM will change the RAW isn’t a good way to look at how classes/subclasses are balanced.

RAW, they get the added spells, some of which are pretty powerful (off the top of my head, Gift of Alacrity and Temporal Shunt). Temporal Shunt is essentially Counterspell on steroids, and is poorly written enough that whether or not it breaks Concentration is up to the DM (personally, I’d say the description means it does break Conc, as I’d not see how a character can Concentrate on a spell from the past or in the future - I’d never allow a Player to cast a spell with the caveat that they’ll Conc on it after the adventure - however, for balance purposes, I’d probably say the target can maintain Conc, even though it doesn’t make any sense).

The fact that the target doesn’t remember anything about the spell being cast likewise can cause RP problems, if you care for those types of things, though I can’t believe a DM would actually fully RP that as it kind of doubles the effect of the spell.

[jaappleton]

RAW, the only way to get them is through the Mercer subclasses:

“Chronurgy Magic lets you choose from an expanded list of spells when you learn a wizard spell.”

There is no corresponding RAW of “other subclasses get this as well.” Some DMs will decide to have anyone take the new spells, some won’t.

Case in point: my table’s currently running Dragon Heist in the Forgotten Realms. Another Player is running a Chronurgist. I asked if my sorcerer has access to the Dunamancy spells and was told no, that it’s part of the Chronurgist’s kit.

So, yes, a DM can change access to the spells, but assuming a DM will change the RAW isn’t a good way to look at how classes/subclasses are balanced.

RAW, they get the added spells, some of which are pretty powerful (off the top of my head, Gift of Alacrity and Temporal Shunt). Temporal Shunt is essentially Counterspell on steroids, and is poorly written enough that whether or not it breaks Concentration is up to the DM (personally, I’d say the description means it does break Conc, as I’d not see how a character can Concentrate on a spell from the past or in the future - I’d never allow a Player to cast a spell with the caveat that they’ll Conc on it after the adventure - however, for balance purposes, I’d probably say the target can maintain Conc, even though it doesn’t make any sense).

The fact that the target doesn’t remember anything about the spell being cast likewise can cause RP problems, if you care for those types of things, though I can’t believe a DM would actually fully RP that as it kind of doubles the effect of the spell.

I got into an argument with some of the 5e designers on this.

"Can a Bard learn these via Magical Secrets?"
"No. Its secret magic."
"Its called MAGICAL SECRETS, and Bards specifically get forgotten knowledge and the like. Its in the class description!"
".....ask your DM."

[RSP]

I got into an argument with some of the 5e designers on this.

"Can a Bard learn these via Magical Secrets?"
"No. Its secret magic."
"Its called MAGICAL SECRETS, and Bards specifically get forgotten knowledge and the like. Its in the class description!"
".....ask your DM."

To an extent, it’s on the DM who allows the material anyway, so it is what it is. But certainly it’s ripe for issues.

I really can’t imagine playing a different Wizard subclass in a campaign with a Chronurgist: I just don’t know how other subclasses don’t get shown up by it at every turn.