New Showrunner for Doctor Who

[comicshorse]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58682472

So this is..........good. Right ?

Speaking personally anythings better than the current guy

[Cygnia]

I don't want WANGST~! or RTD obsessing about Rose All. The. Time. AGAIN.

But I gotta digest this for a bit first. Chibnall is eh, but Moffatt's tenure had me swearing up a storm.

[Precure]

13 is leaving already?

[Fyraltari]

13 is leaving already?

3 seasons is about the standard duration of a given Doctor.

Edit: As for RTD coming back, this feels like a move to regain some lost good-will. Given that last season (especially in regards to Gallifrey and the Master) was basically "RTD but just the bad aspects" that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I'm not familiar with his other work, with luck he might have improved even.

[Androgeus]

13 is leaving already?

Yep in 2022. Series 13 will air some time this year (likely starting next month, but who knows) and then there’ll be 3 specials in 2022, New Years, a second one, and one for the BBC’s centenary which will be her last.


As for RTD returning, wouldn’t be surprised if it’s because the BBC couldn’t find anyone else to take the role.

[Eldan]

Wait, she had three seasons? I remember a little talk about some episodes I had, wasn't really interested anymore during the Moffat Era, so I just assumed she had like one season and then they stopped making the show. No one was talking about it anymore?

Edit: any of it any good? I'm gathering fans didn't like it much, but perhaps any good episodes to pick out?

[Fyraltari]

Wait, she had three seasons? I remember a little talk about some episodes I had, wasn't really interested anymore during the Moffat Era, so I just assumed she had like one season and then they stopped making the show. No one was talking about it anymore?

Edit: any of it any good? I'm gathering fans didn't like it much, but perhaps any good episodes to pick out?

She's had two seasons, with the one planned for 2022 that'd make three.
Her first season was overall mediocre. Her second season was mostly an improvement but the finale severely undermined it for me.

From series 11, I'd say "Kerblam!" is the best episode, although it fails to deliver the message it wants to.

The 2020 special episode "Resolution" is probably the best of her run so far.

From series 12, the first episode, "Spyfall (Part 1)" was excellent but Part 2 was a severe letdown (I am talking Monk trilogy level of letdown), "Praxeus" was a solid episode, "Fugitive of the Judoon" was great but it serves as build up to the finale of the season which I consider to be the worst of the series, so...

"The haunting of Villa Diodati" was pretty good and introduced an interesting spin on my favourite DW monsters, but it is also the first aprt of the finale who promptly shoves that aside.

[halfeye]

3 seasons is about the standard duration of a given Doctor.

Troughton started that, and he was wrong, he was already typecast and he rarely worked as a main character afterwards. As the character I preferred two to four, but four made seven seasons work for himself.

[Fyraltari]

Troughton started that, and he was wrong, he was already typecast and he rarely worked as a main character afterwards. As the character I preferred two to four, but four made seven seasons work for himself.

But not for Tom Baker, the role fed his mental issues (he's doing much better these days).

There's no actual "3 seasons" rule, but it's about the average :
One lasted slightly over three seasons.
Two lasted slightly under three seasons.
Three lasted five seasons.
Four lasted seven seasons.
Five lasted slightly under three seasons.
Six lasted slightly over two seasons.
Seven lasted three seasons.
Eight lasted a movie.
Nine lasted one season.
Ten lasted three seasons plus four specials.
Eleven lasted three seasons plus two specials.
Twelve lasted three seasons.

[halfeye]

But not for Tom Baker, the role fed his mental issues (he's doing much better these days).

I'm sorry to hear Tom Baker had issues.

There's no actual "3 seasons" rule, but it's about the average :
One lasted slightly over three seasons.

Left due to heath issues.

Two lasted slightly under three seasons.

Quit while at his peak.

Three lasted five seasons.

Turned out tolerable in the end, but never as good as two. Did other considerable work after Who.

Four lasted seven seasons.

Better than three.

Five lasted slightly under three seasons.

Quit while ahead due to the influence of Troughton, about even with three.

Six lasted slightly over two seasons.

Better than five. Fired for dodgy reasons.

Seven lasted three seasons.
Eight lasted a movie.

I never saw these.

Nine lasted one season.

May have actually evaded typecasting.

Ten lasted three seasons plus four specials.
Eleven lasted three seasons plus two specials.
Twelve lasted three seasons.

The Troughton myth strikes, or were they pushed?

I do not believe that the doctor regularly regenerating is or ever was good for the series.

[Androgeus]

May have actually evaded typecasting.

Probably worth noting that he left due to behind the scenes politics, not the to avoid type casting quote the BBC falsely attributed to him.

Also surely Capaldi is three series and a special.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by comicshorse
Speaking personally anythings better than the current guy….

I’ve never really watched this show, but I’m curious—what's wrong with the current guy?

[Cygnia]

Eccleston's now doing stuff for Big Finish, which is good -- but I want RTD to give him an apology too, given what CE went through.

[comicshorse]

I’ve never really watched this show, but I’m curious—what's wrong with the current guy?

Personally speaking he has done a lot I hate. All of this is IMHO, of course

The new Master is a giggling idiot who I couldn't see robbing a shop successfully let alone being a threat on a cosmic scale and I love the Master

The stories have been in general lack luster

The companions were OK I suppose but again lazy choices as there is nobody from another era or another planet but all 21th Century humans when he's got literally all of Space and Time to pick from

And the 'revelation' of the last season pretty much junked every bit of Who lore ever ( as changeable as that admittedly is ) and what is worse did it for, as far as I could tell, NO GOOD REASON BUT TO DO IT

[Cikomyr2]

Eccleston's now doing stuff for Big Finish, which is good -- but I want RTD to give him an apology too, given what CE went through.

Was it ever revealed what he went through, or he was just tired of the character in stories keep bringing up his accent "from the North"?

Ecclestone was my favorite Doctor. He had a manic energy to him

[Cygnia]

Severe depression and body image issues

[Anonymouswizard]

Eccleston was my favorite Doctor. He had a manic energy to him

While not my favourite Doctor (that's a competition between Two, audio Six, and Eight), he's probably my favourite revival series Doctor whites series avoided most of the issues with the Tennant era. Plus he probably has my favourite regeneration scene, he's not thrilled but he's made his decision and he's fine with that.

So yeah, if we get some more stories like the Ecclescake era I'm fine with this.

I will note that our of all Chibnall's characters, Ryan annoys me. I have issues with how Jodie's Doctor is written but that just means I want her to get more to work with*, Ryan annoys me because it feels like the writers forget he's ND when it benefits them.

* She's pretty much the revival's Six.

[Psyren]

I loved Eccleston's doctor and very happy he is doing the fandom circuit again. He was at DragonCon this year and he looked very healthy and happy! The line to get in looked like it went around three blocks.



(@Cikomyr2: He does talk about RTD and why he left the show in that panel as well for the curious, @ 12:30, plus some Big Finish stuff and even a tidbit on Thor 2.)

*snip*

I mean, you can quote-stream them all with a set of justifications if you really want to, but the bottom line is that Fryaltari is right, three seasons isn't out of the ordinary. In her case it feels thin because it looks like we're going to get just one major plot in all three of those seasons with her, but I squarely blame Chibnall for that (see below).

I’ve never really watched this show, but I’m curious—what's wrong with the current guy?

It's hard to put my finger on it. The main criticism I have for Chibnall is that he appears to have taken the primary criticism of Moffat - overly-convoluted and multi-season plotlines - and vastly overcorrected in the other direction, reducing Jodie's entire first season and much of her second to a scattered monster-of-the-week format that hasn't been building to much of anything. Now that they finally have a big plot going with the Timeless Child stuff, it hasn't had any room to breathe and barely any setup, and it's left the fans more confused than intrigued.

The other big issue I have with him relates to the companions. Graham is fine because let's face it, a cis white male is handy to have around for a lot of the past jumping stuff (see the Rosa Parks, Witchfinder, and Frankenstein episodes), plus he brings the truest emotional core to the "fam." But Ryan and Yaz, while individually fine, ended up spread much too thin having to split the remainder of companionly duties and screentime between them. Graham + one of the others would have been ideal, maybe adding the third one in S2, but starting things off with an ensemble cast felt like more than Chibnall could handle, particularly when you start also adding in the secondary characters who also need screentime like King James, Ruth Clayton, and whoever the villain(s) ended up being.

[Cygnia]

I liked Graham because it's rare we get old folks as Companions. (Jack doesn't count -- he's still young-looking and immortal)

[Cikomyr2]

Severe depression and body image issues

All of these are important issue and I am happy he managed to start addressing them.

But... is this RTD's or BBC's fault? Was he mistreated by the production?

[Psyren]

All of these are important issue and I am happy he managed to start addressing them.

But... is this RTD's or BBC's fault? Was he mistreated by the production?

I gave you a timestamp that speaks to this, I don't think it's likely he'll get any more specific than that in a public forum. He even talks about the quote the BBC higher-ups misattributed to him and subsequently sort-of-apologized for.

[Cikomyr2]

I gave you a timestamp that speaks to this, I don't think it's likely he'll get any more specific than that in a public forum. He even talks about the quote the BBC higher-ups misattributed to him and subsequently sort-of-apologized for.

I had completely missed you giving me that! So sorry! thanks!

[Traab]

I honestly enjoyed 9-12. They all brought something different to the series for me. 9 to me showed he could be goofy, and enraged and everything in between. I thought he was.... wait for it.... fantastic. Each of the doctors had their good and bad parts, their good and bad storylines, so on and so forth. The speech matt smith delivered in the rings of akhaten was mesmerizing. When he starts going you can almost see the humanity melting away from his face as he talks about how he has seen things that can never be unseen and all that and its brilliant. But all of them are great fun. Some seemed to focus primarily with one type of personality over the others, but they could all display whimsy, rage, the pain of being the doctor, their age, their confidence, their ability to bluff entire armadas with no plan because they are the doctor and you step lightly when "I AM TALKING!!!!!" Sorry, just watched the pandorica.

[Psyren]

I enjoy them all, and 13 too. She is being hamstrung by the showrunner but when she has good material she's stone-cold brilliant.

[Cikomyr2]

I enjoy them all, and 13 too. She is being hamstrung by the showrunner but when she has good material she's stone-cold brilliant.

See, whatever the problems exists during 13's run... it wasn't Jodie Whittaker's fault. She delivered what she was given, and gave it her best.

Only the classic misogynists would correlate the show's having production issue with the fact that the doctor was a FEEE-MALE

Spoiler: FEEEE-MALE

Show

[Arutema]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58682472

So this is..........good. Right ?

Speaking personally anythings better than the current guy

My main concern is that bringing RTD back feels like a nice safe move from the BBC. Will that mean playing it safe with casting another white bloke as the 14th?

[Cen]

See, whatever the problems exists during 13's run... it wasn't Jodie Whittaker's fault. She delivered what she was given, and gave it her best.

Only the classic misogynists would correlate the show's having production issue with the fact that the doctor was a FEEE-MALE

I don't think anyone had a problem with Doctor being female but with Doctor being Jodie. And honestly her performance in her first season was weird.. like she was trying to be amalgamation of 10/11/12 all at once and not making something of her own. I guess she was directed this way, but when she finaly got some proper acting and characterisation in her second season Timeless children happened and.. well i'm not interested in the show anymore.


And about RTD returning:
I was there watching first airings of eccleston and tennants episodes. I remember all the hate RTD got when he was finishing his run. Don't you remember Fairy Jesus Gollum Doctor? Absorbalof? Fart Aliens invading London?
Granted, RTD might be better than Chinball in sense that he won't be making obvious morals in every story (corporated business is bad, being racist is baad, being sexist is baaad) like Chibnal makes, but he's on another level of garbage with his stories.

Also also:
I remember hearing a story about Moffat repeatedly asking RTD to come back for 50th anni, but he didn't want to? and now he's back? I wonder what happened.

[Dienekes]

I don't think anyone had a problem with Doctor being female but with Doctor being Jodie. And honestly her performance in her first season was weird.. like she was trying to be amalgamation of 10/11/12 all at once and not making something of her own. I guess she was directed this way, but when she finaly got some proper acting and characterisation in her second season Timeless children happened and.. well i'm not interested in the show anymore.


And about RTD returning:
I was there watching first airings of eccleston and tennants episodes. I remember all the hate RTD got when he was finishing his run. Don't you remember Fairy Jesus Gollum Doctor? Absorbalof? Fart Aliens invading London?
Granted, RTD might be better than Chinball in sense that he won't be making obvious morals in every story (corporated business is bad, being racist is baad, being sexist is baaad) like Chibnal makes, but he's on another level of garbage with his stories.

Also also:
I remember hearing a story about Moffat repeatedly asking RTD to come back for 50th anni, but he didn't want to? and now he's back? I wonder what happened.

RTD from my memory did terribly with creating satisfying conclusions, got weirdly obsessive with his characters, wrote awkward monologues way too much, and almost always went for cheap drama whenever he could, and his seasonal plotlines were often at the same time barely alluded to during the season and often resulted in nonsense.

But, he was able to get great performances from his main actors, and make the Doctor -mostly- likeable. Which I think when people think back on his tenure is what they remember. Tennant and Eccleston repeatedly get held up as great Doctors, despite Eccleston only having maybe 3 legitimately good episodes in his run. And Tennant being saddled with one of the most annoying character arcs with his obsession with Rose and his eyeroll worthy overlong goodbye. But their performances were great, and I think RTD rightfully gets some props for that.

[Rynjin]

So my 2 cents on Davies: at least his stint as showrunner had the series be consistently entertaining.

Was every episode good? Hell no. Was the tone overall a bit campy? Hell yes.

But the show was fun goddammit. That's something Moffat started to lose sight of pretty quick and Chibnall never had a grasp on.

I'm sure both are fine writers in a vacuum. Every standalone episode of Who that Moffat did was good, and I hear Broadchurch is pretty solid on Chibnall's end.

But being a good episode writer and being a good showrunner are two entirely different skillsets. I think Moffat and Chibnall are good at the former but suck as the latter.

Davies is kinda the opposite.

[comicshorse]

My main concern is that bringing RTD back feels like a nice safe move from the BBC. Will that mean playing it safe with casting another white bloke as the 14th?

I'd put money on it