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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Default Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    The Watcher's Mantle is very rare the correct rarity for this item?

    This item is being designed for a campaign where The Watcher is the patron of Hexblade warlocks. He is roughly a demigod and fulfills the role of The Grim Reaper. I want to make it portable to anyone's campaign by getting the rarity and powers as close to right as I can. Granted, raritity gives us a range, or zone, of power in 5e, but it's still one way to guess about right.

    I am using as bookends the Staff of Power (very rare, high end of the power level) and the Robe of Stars (a lower power level very rare item) to try and find the right power zone for this mantle.

    Watcher's Mantle
    Wondrous Item, very rare, requires attunement
    The mantle is made of deep black woven wool trimmed with black silk. When attuned, it grants the following benefits to its wearer:
    1. A +1 bonus to all saving throws.
    2. Dexterity (Stealth) checks are made with advantage.


    Additionally, the mantle has seven charges which refresh each day at sundown (or at dusk?). Spells using the mantle have a spell save DC of 17. When attuned, the wearer can cast the following spells (charges in parentheses): cause fear (1), misty step (2), darkness (2), enervation (5). When the wearer is targeted by a melee or ranged attack, the mantle can be used to cast darkness as a Reaction, at the wearer's location, if there are enough charges remaining.

    I am considering adding one more feature, but am not sure if this would make the cloak too powerful.

    Cause fear can be cast as high as level 5, using one charge for each spell level, if there are enough charges remaining.

    I am also not sure if the spell save ought to be DC 16 or DC 17.
    Bottom line: is adding the additional feature a case of adding too much power for a very rare item?


    Spoiler: Artistic and Thematic Notes
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    The deep black color is based on the cloak worn by the protagonist in Gene Wolfe's The Shadow of the Torturer/Book of the New Sun, but any 'midnight black' color is thematically appropriate.
    This could also be called Shadow's Mantle, since The Watcher in our game is the Lord of the Plane of Shadow. In any campaign it could be linked to Shadowfell, a death deity, or other similar power / spirit / demigod. The FR god Helm is called The Watcher, and this item is not intended to be one of his creations).


    @PhoenixPhyre:
    Spoiler: campaign context
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    this is an item that was inspired by Rune Al'Thor and his relationship with The Watcher as a Gleaner.


    What say ye, Playgrounders? Have I got this about right? Are there some tweaks you'd recommend?
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-09-24 at 02:42 PM.
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
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    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Rhocian Xothara's Avatar

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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    Very Rare strikes me as just slightly undervalued. This is skirting between V. Rare and Legendary, and I suspect you know that (hence your question).

    The Cloak of Protection and Cloak of Elvenkind are both Uncommon items and the combination of the two justifies a 'Rare' rating.

    If given this, I'd use Enervation when needed and save Darkness as a Reaction. The fact these 7 charges refresh each dawn, and the fact most adventures don't have multiple big fights in one day means this cloak can pretty much carry a character, if not a small party. It's not OP as such; it's just what puts it in Legendary tier for me.

    Minor fix: The cloak recharges 1D4 charges each dawn, and consider increasing Enervation to a cost of 6 charges. It's a 5th-level spell that gets to be cast free-of-charge every day, after all.

    Given it's linked to a Patron, 'Very Rare' kind of implies there are more than one of these kicking about in the world, whilst 'Legendary' tends to be given to one-off items. Worth considering if this is a one-off item in your setting.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    If anything, it seems closer to Robe of Stars than it does to Staff of Power, even with the added fear ability.

    The charge abilities are useful but not game-breaking (fear and darkness are minor challenges for more powerful creatures/villains), the "darkness as reaction" is fun and flavorful, and the defense & Stealth bonuses are fairly minimal for a very rare item. DC 17 feels about right.

    Overall, I think it's about the right power level, and certainly not overpowered!

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    J-H's Avatar

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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    Very rare is about right. It does too much to be Rare.

    Enervation is kind of Greater Witchbolt in effect, so I don't view that as adding value. At the level it's being acquired, Cause Fear is cheap also. The standout on the spell list for me is getting Misty Step 3 times per day. A bonus action 30' teleport is something every class benefits from. I'd give it to the clanky full plate-armor wearing dwarven fighter. His saves go up, he stops being a stealth liability, and he can teleport to get in front of the enemy faster.
    Last edited by J-H; 2021-09-24 at 05:26 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    Darkness as a reaction seems potentially OP. I'd suggest you drop that (and maybe make it DC 16). Anything thats "as a reaction" is going to be open to abuse.

    Or go nuts and call it an artifact.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Havlock View Post
    Darkness as a reaction seems potentially OP. I'd suggest you drop that (and maybe make it DC 16). Anything thats "as a reaction" is going to be open to abuse.

    Or go nuts and call it an artifact.
    Eh, it has a resource cost. Maybe the reaction cast could be more expensive (4 charges?), but I don't see it breaking anything even as-is. Especially if your entire party doesn't have Devil's Sight, since you'll likely be mucking up other people's plans until you can move on your turn.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2021-09-24 at 09:51 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    It let's you impose disadvantage on incomming attacks, and if its inconvenient to you or other party members you can just stop concentration. Seems pretty potent to me... but hey, its magic so its supposed to be cool. I just think adding all the capabilities of it together and giving this sweet sweet cherry on top is pretty powerful.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    I'd change it to 5 charges per day (regains 1d4+1 charges per day, if you take it to 0 charges, roll a d20, 1=destroyed) and then feel very comfortable with the VR valuation.
    Last edited by da newt; 2021-09-25 at 08:38 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    OK some good ideas here.

    1. Five charges per day, and 1d4+1 recharge? or 1d6-1 recharge? Not a bad idea if our DM thinks I gave it too many charges.

    2. Not a legendary. I already have dropped the DC to 16 (by consensus). I'll repost the new version.

    3. Darkness as a reaction costing more? Only if I keep the charges at 7.

    4. I have no time for the "most games don't have multiple encounters" critique.

    The basic design assumption is 6-8 med - hard encounters and two short rests. That translates into about 4 hard, or 3 or 4 hard to deadly, based on the XP Budget Per Day framework and working backwards. The latter is the 'adventure day I tend to use, with either 1 or 2 short rests based on that day's pacing, risks, and time pressures.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-09-27 at 10:25 AM.
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    Revised Version based on your feedback in case anyone thinks it's a bit overpowered.

    (@J-H: very much appreciate your insights, I've been reading your campaign log and I like the feel I get from your DM judgment).
    1. Very Rare Version
    Watcher's Mantle
    Wondrous Item, very rare, requires attunement
    The mantle is made of deep black woven wool trimmed with black silk. When attuned, it grants the following benefits to its wearer:
    A +1 bonus to all saving throws.
    Dexterity (Stealth) checks are made with advantage.

    Additionally, the mantle has seven charges; 1d4+1 refresh each day at sundown (or at dusk?). Spells using the mantle have a spell save DC of 16. When attuned, the wearer can cast the following spells (charges in parentheses): cause fear (1), misty step (2), darkness (2), enervation (5). When the wearer is targeted by a melee or ranged attack, the mantle can be used to cast darkness as a Reaction, at the wearer's location, if there are enough charges remaining.

    Cause fear can be cast as high as level 3, using one charge for each spell level, if there are enough charges remaining.

    2. Legendary Version

    Watcher's Mantle
    Wondrous Item, legendary, requires attunement
    The mantle is made of deep black woven wool trimmed with black silk. When attuned, it grants the following benefits to its wearer:
    A +1 bonus to AC and all saving throws.
    Dexterity (Stealth) checks are made with advantage.

    Additionally, the mantle has seven charges which refresh each day at sundown (or at dusk?). Spells using the mantle have a spell save DC of 17. When attuned, the wearer can cast the following spells (charges in parentheses): cause fear (1), misty step (2), darkness (2), enervation (5). When the wearer is targeted by a melee or ranged attack, the mantle can be used to cast darkness as a Reaction, at the wearer's location, if there are enough charges remaining.

    Cause fear can be cast as high as level 5, using one charge for each spell level, if there are enough charges remaining.

    If this needs a slight boost for Legendary, comments please. I added +1 AC and DC is 17, versus 16 for the very rare.

    Again, thanks to you all!
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-09-27 at 10:32 AM.
    Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Works
    a. Malifice (paraphrased):
    Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
    Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Very Rare Item: have I got the power level right?

    Tagging in here (as the DM in question) to say "I've read it and will consider it". More feedback later.
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