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    Default The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    This is clearly the most important thing for us to be discussing right now.

    Serini is shown growing crops in her lair at the North Pole. Fresh vegetables and grains are some of the highest sources of fiber available. Mark Watney grew potatoes on Mars -- why can't an Epic Level Rogue with presumed agricultural experience (and a sick badass lair that acts as the Final Dungeon) manage to grow some lentils, carrots, or oatmeal in her spare time?

    This is not a rhetorical question. 3.5e has a lot of rules I don't know about, so clearly there's a basis for this in RAW, we just have to find it. Serious answers only.
    Last edited by Ionathus; 2021-09-24 at 04:28 PM.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Farming is time intensive. If you don't have a minimum of12 hours a day to devote to it, your yield suffers.

    All over Europe there are little stone walls marking out tiny fields. These little patches were kitchen plots for the serfs who worked the master's cash crop fields. About an acre was what a man could effectively work using Medieval technology. That's a reliable source of greens and turnips at best.

    If Serini isn't spending all day working her crops, she's getting a smaller crop.

    The OotS could probably bribe her with a salad and some limes right about now.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Growing plants underground is not an easy task. Serini has to address the lack of sunlight and the lack of nutrient-rich soil. The latter can be addressed with use of hydroponics; the former with the magical fantasy equivalent of a grow lamp. However, grow lamps are energy-intensive - Serini would need to be casting Daylight every hour, or constantly running the magical fantasy equivalent of a big generator. That might not be the best use of her resources.

    Managing the cold temperatures would be an issue as well. Theoretically, she could heat her whole setup with geothermal energy, I suppose.

    But the cold also poses a different issue. Our bodies have to maintain an internal temperature of 97-98 degrees. In freezing environments, it really has to work to keep the body warm - which burns a huge amount of calories.

    The real-world comparison to Serini's situation is Antarctic research stations (Here's a great little video that talks about the food situation down there, via PBS). Food in the Antarctic is shipped from the mainland and stored for a year in advance. Keeping it frozen is obviously not an issue (they actually have heaters in their refrigerators, so the food can thaw). Fresh produce can be flown in during the summer months, and a limited amount can be grown in hothouses, but this is a rarity. Generally, you're eating defrosted or dried or canned or otherwise-preserved food.

    But because of the cold, people in Antarctic research stations are constantly burning calories just to stay warm. Which means they have to eat - a lot. The average person has to consume about 3,000 to 5,000 calories per day - possibly more, if the individual is doing a lot of heavy work outdoors. Imagine having to eat a minimum of 3 Big Mac combo meals - with medium Coke and fries - every day ... or you'll start losing weight. That's a reality for Antarctic residents.

    (I am surprised that "going to Antarctica, to toil" has not yet become a celebrity weight loss trend.)

    Serini has the benefit of not having to feed an entire research station, but she doesn't have the cellphone reception to be able to call in a Boeing C-17 to deliver fresh supplies. And she's gonna have to eat a lot in order to stay healthy. Her best source for calorie-dense food is going to be meat. She could supplement that with a small amount of vegetables harvested from her hydroponic garden - but that would merely be a garnish. She has to eat meat to survive. And she's got a dungeon full of monsters right there - it's basically a giant larder.

    (Of course, that brings up the question of what all those monsters are eating, but to address that would bring us dangerously close to undermining the very concept of the classic D&D monster dungeon, on the grounds of ecological sustainability.)

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    If she could get a half celestial monster of some sort as a gardener they get daylight as an at will spell-like ability. Could go one step further and make them a water genasi who get create water for free once per day to water the plants with. Slap a few druid, cleric, archivist or ranger levels on them and they could prepare and cast plant growth every day to boost yearly yields by 1/3rd as well, or more likely just have a once per day magic item of the spell crafted for them to use.
    Last edited by RatElemental; 2021-09-25 at 04:06 AM.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    She probably took a couple levels of Druid during the decades up there in her lair, and focused it all on plant-based spells and survival skills rather than attack or defense. After all, she knew she would have this issue coming up.

    Or she cut a deal with some selected, more intelligent monsters; they bring her an order of tomato and cuke plants now and then, and keep stumm about the dungeon, and in return they don't get stuck in it.
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Farming is time intensive. If you don't have a minimum of 12 hours a day to devote to it, your yield suffers.
    There are a variety of low level spells (unseen servant) that can probably be put into wands to help with that. Likewise plant growth.
    If Serini isn't spending all day working her crops, she's getting a smaller crop.
    One word: constructs. Also, her troll regeneration scheme either makes up for her lack of nutrition, or, it doubles her metabolic rate and requires more food. But remember: she's feeding a halfling, not a human. Cut the caloric intake down.
    The OotS could probably bribe her with a salad and some limes right about now.
    Yes. Maybe even a gin and tonic with a twist of lime, or a margerita.

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    Growing plants underground is not an easy task. Serini has to address the lack of sunlight and the lack of nutrient-rich soil.
    Daylight spell: on wands, no? But that might get expensive. 10-12 hours of sunlight a day starts to add up. (There is, however, a way to use mirrors to reflect sunlight down into basements (Sci Am had an article on that a few decades ago, interesting application of solar power) but I am not sure if she wants that potential security breach).
    See also "create food and water" spells on a wand for reserve calories.
    Managing the cold temperatures would be an issue as well. Theoretically, she could heat her whole setup with geothermal energy, I suppose.
    Or she lives underground, which puts her ambient temp at about 59 Degrees F. But I agree with the geothermal approach, if she can manage it. If she had folks digging things out of multidimensional stone, they could burrow down a hundred feet or so and dig her out her own cave.

    And she's gonna have to eat a lot in order to stay healthy. Her best source for calorie-dense food is going to be meat. She could supplement that with a small amount of vegetables harvested from her hydroponic garden - but that would merely be a garnish. She has to eat meat to survive. And she's got a dungeon full of monsters right there - it's basically a giant larder.
    She has a body mass of what, fifty to sixty pounds, maybe? Cut her caloric requirements by about a third from your model, and consider her environment to be a stable 59 degrees F unless she goes outside.

    See also a magic item: Ring of Warmth. (Lien has one of those, right? Or something like that; her ring of water breathing protects her against cold)
    See also a magic item:
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    This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

    (Of course, that brings up the question of what all those monsters are eating, but to address that would bring us dangerously close to undermining the very concept of the classic D&D monster dungeon, on the grounds of ecological sustainability.)
    Yes.

    FWIW, oats are a great source of fiber. All she needs is a teleportation circle and a once per quarter TP to a market and she gets a few bags of oats. A pound of oats (see gruel/oatmeal/porridge) (ten pounds of oats) lasts a long time if you have a bowl of oatmeal per day for breakfast - your dietary fiber. (Supplement with occasional bowls of beans. A fifty pound sack of beans (kidney, navy, pinto) isn't very expensive. When I make a pound of pinto beans I get a lot of servings out of it. Water she's not short of, salt can be had at the same market).
    Why a TP circle? Only she knows the runes/sequence that gets that circle to respond.
    Teleportation circle can be made permanent with a permanency spell. A permanent teleportation circle that is disabled becomes inactive for 10 minutes, then can be triggered again as normal.

    Note: Magic traps such as teleportation circle are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the circle and Disable Device to thwart it. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 34 in the case of teleportation circle.
    (And maybe that's related to her misdirection thing inside the caves).
    Who made it for her? Dorukan, back when he was still alive. (Or he knew a guy, as it were, in wizard circles who owed him a favor).

    If all you lack is fiber, you don't need fresh veggies (beans and oats have you covered) but, there are some vitamins like Magnesium and Potassium (mushrooms for the latter, in her caves) that you don't want to be without and that are often found in veggies.

    Lastly: a daylight spell, permanent, could have been cast in the underground chambers where she farms, but I am not sure if Dorukan would have agreed to the XP loss for that? (Plus, I don't see daylight on the list of spells one can perm in the SRD, but if the OoTS world has a bit of homebrew already, I think it's doable...) Arcane and Divine spell casters working together ... gee, is here an example of that already?
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-09-25 at 10:03 AM.
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    If anything, the caloric intake of a halfling is higher than a human at the pole because lower body mass and bare feet make heat retention harder.

    As for her garden:
    Lirian, honey, what do I need to grow fresh vegetables underground at the pole?

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Farming is time intensive. If you don't have a minimum of12 hours a day to devote to it, your yield suffers.

    All over Europe there are little stone walls marking out tiny fields. These little patches were kitchen plots for the serfs who worked the master's cash crop fields. About an acre was what a man could effectively work using Medieval technology. That's a reliable source of greens and turnips at best.

    If Serini isn't spending all day working her crops, she's getting a smaller crop.

    The OotS could probably bribe her with a salad and some limes right about now.
    Just a nitpick (but what else are we here for), but doesn't that mean an acre is how much land you can work in the (presumably extremely limited) free time afforded a medieval serf and that you could work lots more in a reasonable work day?

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    (I am surprised that "going to Antarctica, to toil" has not yet become a celebrity weight loss trend.)
    At the risk of sounding unoriginal... one does not simply walk into Antarctica.
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Paul View Post
    She probably took a couple levels of Druid during the decades up there in her lair, and focused it all on plant-based spells and survival skills rather than attack or defense. After all, she knew she would have this issue coming up.

    Or she cut a deal with some selected, more intelligent monsters; they bring her an order of tomato and cuke plants now and then, and keep stumm about the dungeon, and in return they don't get stuck in it.
    or she spent 2000 gp on a ring of susteinance, and now she doesn't have to eat anymore

    yes, i know. I'm ruining a party here
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowhere View Post
    or she spent 2000 gp on a ring of susteinance, and now she doesn't have to eat anymore

    yes, i know. I'm ruining a party here
    I get the sneaking suspicion that this is the real reason why Senri has toilet troubles. As an Epic character she could afford to eat a healthy diet if she wants to. It's just that as a busy working mom it's easier to use the ring so she very rarely eats actual food. This ends up with her having a slow digestive system that's often backed up.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemera View Post
    Just a nitpick (but what else are we here for), but doesn't that mean an acre is how much land you can work in the (presumably extremely limited) free time afforded a medieval serf and that you could work lots more in a reasonable work day?
    True enough. By the 1800s technology had progressed to the point that a family could thrive, or at least subsist, with 40 acres and a mule, (which is why almost all of North America is surveyed out in 40 acre squares.) But that includes a lot of assumptions, not the least of which is, how big is an acre?

    Essentially, an acre was what a man and mule could plough in a day, and that varied a lot depending on what kind of soil and mule you had. Even today a city acre and a country acre are different sizes.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    She has a body mass of what, fifty to sixty pounds, maybe? Cut her caloric requirements by about a third from your model, and consider her environment to be a stable 59 degrees F unless she goes outside.
    Typical living area temperatures in Antarctic research stations are kept around 70 F (21 C). I contend that this remains a fairly good comparison to Serini's situation - her living areas might be heated, but I'm sure her daily routine would involve having to go into unheated areas. I just can't imagine her spending all her time curled up next to a radiator.

    (Certainly, underground caves would be warmer than the surface, but that's relative. This study of underground temperatures at Japan's Syowa/Showa Station found mean temps around -8 C (17 F) at 6.8 meters below surface. This was warmer than mean surface temps of -10.8 C (13 F), but I think we can agree that's still pretty chilly.)

    Caloric intake doesn't decrease in direct proportion to weight. The average resting metabolic rate for individuals with achrondoplasia is about 1000 to 1800.

    The average height of achrondoplastics is about 4 ft-4 ft 4 (122-132 cm), which is technically higher than the official height for halflings, which is 3 ft (91 cm) in the sourcebooks and 3 ft 6 (106 cm) in Tolkien. However, I contend halflings in the Stickverse are much taller than that. Based on the comics, Belkar easily reaches Roy's nipples, which I will unscientifically guess are about 2/3 up the human body, and I peg Roy as about 6 ft (183 cm).

    In fact, in Origin of Species, Vaarsuvius writes down their height as 151 cm (4 ft 11.5), and Belkar at least reaches their mouth. Some very undignified self-measuring I just did right now by holding a piece of paper in my teeth indicates that the top of my head to my mouth is slightly less than the width of an A4 sheet of paper, or 21 cm. If I guess that Vaarsuvius has an especially large head (because they're an elf and elves are always winding on about being so much brainier than everyone else), then that slides Belkar into comfortably into about 125 cm or so. And, per Comic #125, Belkar was the "smallest and weakest" of the halflings. If we accept his words at face value (which now that I think about, we probably shouldn't because he was obviously making stuff up), then he might be at the bottom range of your standard halfling.

    So Serini, if we assume is an average halfling, could have a resting metabolic rate of about 1000-1800, similar to the average human with achrondoplasia. Since the average human at least doubles their daily caloric need upon going to the Antarctic, then Serini is gonna need to tuck away 2000-3600 calories up there.


    But there's a wrinkle. Halflings are not humans - their biology could be quite different. If we refer back to Tolkien, we see that they eat 6 to 7 meals per day - and halflings of the Stickverse share these gastronomic tendencies. Based on that, we can surmise that halfling daily calorie intake is actually more than it would be for a similar sized human.

    And such is confirmed by this scholarly journal article: "Modelling the BMR of Species in Middle Earth". This study created a model based on animals with similar diets to Middle Earth species, then calculated the scale factor, to ultimately arrive at a basal metabolic rate of of 1818.61 kilocalories per day. (The same authors also calculated just how many lembas bread the Fellowship would've needed to simply walk into Mordor.)

    However, their model was based on a hobbit which was 3 ft 6 tall. But as I argued above, Stick-verse halflings are significantly larger than that. So the BMR could be even higher.

    The conclusion is inescapable: Halflings must spend A LOT of time on the toilet, fiber or no.


    However .... I must admit - there is one thing that could bring this house of cards crashing down around me.

    And that's Comic #165, in which Belkar states he weighs about 30 pounds. Which means that halflings in the Stick-verse are substantially less dense than real-world humans. Perhaps halflings have hollow bones, like birds. Maybe their internal biology is just a series of gas-filled bladders. Perhaps their skeleton is just a wireframe made out of pure lithium (can lithium be made into wires?).

    However, I am willing to pull any or all of the following nonsensical excuses out of my posterior donkey to defend my ridiculous idiocy:

    1) Belkar is speaking in fantasy-world "pounds", which are not the same as our real-world pounds from the British Imperial system of weights and measures.
    2) Belkar is referring the UK currency "pounds" - he's saying that his personal net-worth is equivalent to 30 British pounds-sterling. (The conversion rate is murder)
    3) The planet on which the Order reside has a much ligher gravity than our Earth, and Belkar is indeed 30 pounds in weight, but under their gravity. His body mass is substantially more than that.
    4) Belkar, like all halflings, has a tiny singularity in his head which generates its own gravity well. Belkar only weighs 30 pounds, because he generates a gravity field that actually pulls him upwards. The singularity is in his skull - hence his rather large head - and is the reason why halflings are so good at acrobatics, as they have limited control over their local gravity. This also explains their voracious appetites - gotta feed that black hole he has instead of a brain.( This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and you should not ask any physicists about whether any of this holds up.)
    5) Belkar is speaking of pounds as a measure of velocity, rather than mass - as in "I can do the Kessel Run in 30 pounds".




    Quote Originally Posted by King of Nowhere View Post
    or she spent 2000 gp on a ring of susteinance, and now she doesn't have to eat anymore

    yes, i know. I'm ruining a party here
    Dammit.


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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    True enough. By the 1800s technology had progressed to the point that a family could thrive, or at least subsist, with 40 acres and a mule, (which is why almost all of North America is surveyed out in 40 acre squares.) But that includes a lot of assumptions, not the least of which is, how big is an acre?

    Essentially, an acre was what a man and mule could plough in a day, and that varied a lot depending on what kind of soil and mule you had. Even today a city acre and a country acre are different sizes.
    That doesn't sound right. In fact, I'm fairly positive most of it is not.

    "40 acres and a mule" is derived from a field order issued in 1865, which was simply 40 acres. The mule was added in much later.

    North America is surveyed out in square miles. 40 acres is a subset of this, but it is defined as a quarter-quarter section - that is, one sixteenth of the base unit, which is square miles.

    An acre was originally derived in what a pair of oxen (not one man and one mule) could plough in a day.

    Finally, the US defines an acre as 4,046.872 square meters. There is some variance in the exact size of an acre depending on whether one is using a survey foot or a survey yard (survey foot = 0.3048006 ft/m, or 0.9144018 yd/m, this is the American standard; while survey yard = 0.3048 ft/m, or 0.9144 yd/m, this is the international standard), but this is generally not an issue, and regardless, neither are referred to as "city acres" or "country acres".
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-09-25 at 10:20 PM.
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    I'm actually in the process of buying 17 acres and did a bit of research.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    I'm actually in the process of buying 17 acres and did a bit of research.
    By all means, feel free to share your research. I would love to know if I am wrong. Especially on:
    • "40 acres and a mule" is derived from a field order issued in 1865, which was simply 40 acres.
    • North America is surveyed out in square miles.
    • An acre was originally derived in what a pair of oxen could plough in a day.
    • The US defines an acre as 4,046.872 square meters.
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    By all means, feel free to share your research. I would love to know if I am wrong. Especially on:
    • "40 acres and a mule" is derived from a field order issued in 1865, which was simply 40 acres.
    • North America is surveyed out in square miles.
    • An acre was originally derived in what a pair of oxen could plough in a day.
    • The US defines an acre as 4,046.872 square meters.
    Yes, oxen, not mules. I remembered the quote and misapplied it, but the idea is the same. One man, one beast, one plough, one day.

    The U.S. is laid out in 160 acre sections which are divided into four 40 acre squares, which may be subdivided into four 10 acre squares. If you look at a plat map of almost anywhere in the U.S. and Western Canada, you will see 40 acre squares defining the map.

    As of 1959 that is true. Before then a mix of definitions existed. Southeast Louisiana was laid out in arpents!

    And what I called a city acre is technically known as a Builder's Acre. It is smaller than a surveyor's acre, and is in current use in the U.S.

    I apologise for the digression. My intent was to remark on the difficulty of small scale farming, not to debate weights and measures.

    Just for fun: the land I'm getting is 2 ten acre squares minus a previously sold 3 acre lot. There is a hill loaded with hicory trees, (pignut,) a few hundred muskedine grape vines, uncounted huckleberry bushes, and a stream that almost runs the short-side property llne. I don't have a mule, but I have a 4wd pickup and a friend with a skid steer.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    True enough. By the 1800s technology had progressed to the point that a family could thrive, or at least subsist, with 40 acres and a mule,
    I had a poke around because, and the average 1300s peasant in Sweden is estimated to have had 22 acres of farmland. 19th century technology would provide better yields on the same acreage. And the US has a nicer climate than Sweden, and a whole lot easier workable land.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by snowblizz View Post
    I had a poke around because, and the average 1300s peasant in Sweden is estimated to have had 22 acres of farmland. 19th century technology would provide better yields on the same acreage. And the US has a nicer climate than Sweden, and a whole lot easier workable land.
    Keep in mind that having 20 acres of land doesnít mean 20 acres of cultivated fields. You can have pastures, meadows, woods, and orchards to support your livestock, have something for your mule or ox or horse to eat in the winter, provide fuel for your stove, have some fruit, etc.

    If Serini is feeding herself from a garden, and if she isnít raising livestock, Iím guessing that garden needs less than a half acre to do so.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Keep in mind that having 20 acres of land doesnít mean 20 acres of cultivated fields. You can have pastures, meadows, woods, and orchards to support your livestock, have something for your mule or ox or horse to eat in the winter, provide fuel for your stove, have some fruit, etc.

    If Serini is feeding herself from a garden, and if she isnít raising livestock, Iím guessing that garden needs less than a half acre to do so.
    And if she has only a handful of planters, chances are good they are growing alchemy components and maybe some spices.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    Yes, oxen, not mules. I remembered the quote and misapplied it, but the idea is the same. One man, one beast, one plough, one day.
    Again, two. Two beasts. There is quite a bit of disparity between a pair of oxen and a lone mule.
    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    The U.S. is laid out in 160 acre sections
    Notably, 160 acres is not 40 acres. If you quarter that, then sure, you get 40 acre sections. But then 160 acre sections are simply quartered square miles, so either way, the claim that we're measured in 40 acre sections is incorrect.
    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    As of 1959 that is true. Before then a mix of definitions existed. Southeast Louisiana was laid out in arpents!
    And before 1776, a mix of different nations existed here. I assumed your claim was for current structure.
    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    And what I called a city acre is technically known as a Builder's Acre. It is smaller than a surveyor's acre, and is in current use in the U.S.
    Similarly, I assumed that when talking about survey measurements, we are not talking about construction measurements.
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Again, two. Two beasts. There is quite a bit of disparity between a pair of oxen and a lone mule.

    Notably, 160 acres is not 40 acres. If you quarter that, then sure, you get 40 acre sections. But then 160 acre sections are simply quartered square miles, so either way, the claim that we're measured in 40 acre sections is incorrect.

    And before 1776, a mix of different nations existed here. I assumed your claim was for current structure.

    Similarly, I assumed that when talking about survey measurements, we are not talking about construction measurements.
    I didn't set out to have a scholarly article on the usage of the word acre. I was making a point about the difficulty of farming underground in the arctic.

    I have seen the one man and an ox, and I have seen a yoke of oxen both used to define an acre. The latter is a very old legal definition, the former a description. Neither is exact. Exact would be 66 chains by 660 chains, but then the size of an acre would depend on what size foot you use. Sigh. If only they had picked one standard and stuck with it. The size of an acre as we understand it was established in 1959. Before then there was a lot of variance.

    Look at a plat map of your home region. Your state university or county tax assessor should have one online. Away from cities and rivers that alter the shapes, you will see a grid pattern. Those are quarter-section squares that define road and infrastructure right of ways. 40 acre squares. Coincidence?

    Since I specifically cited 1800s, I don't see how that got confused with modern, post 1959 standards. I apologize for my lack of clarity.

    And when I cited city acre vs. country acre, (terms used by a property manager friend in describing the variety of meanings of the word acre,) I was pointing out that even now not all acres are the same. (Both terms are used by surveyors to describe properties in terms most useful to the customer.

    None of this has anything to do with what Serini is potentially growing in her arctic garden. It may potentially impact the size of her garden cave if halflings use acres instead of hectares for land measurement.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Keep in mind that having 20 acres of land doesnít mean 20 acres of cultivated fields. You can have pastures, meadows, woods, and orchards to support your livestock, have something for your mule or ox or horse to eat in the winter, provide fuel for your stove, have some fruit, etc.

    If Serini is feeding herself from a garden, and if she isnít raising livestock, Iím guessing that garden needs less than a half acre to do so.
    That was *specifically* cultivated fields actually. Forest resources and several types of meadows were largely commons at the time. And ofc the average will vary a lot, in the north the arable acreage would be significantly lower as the focus was more on livestock rearing due to much reduce farming yields from the northern climate. In the south fields would be larger as it would be more directed towards growing cereals.

    The point I was making is that 40 aces isn't a minimum subsistence farming in the 1800s. It's a sizeable farm, and produced a lot more than a mediaeval equivalent at that, so is even more prosperous than straight acreage would suggest.
    Last edited by snowblizz; 2021-09-27 at 05:54 AM.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by skim172 View Post
    However .... I must admit - there is one thing that could bring this house of cards crashing down around me.

    And that's Comic #165, in which Belkar states he weighs about 30 pounds.
    Sorry, I should have mentioned that Belkar's point on what he weighed, and my brain taking half troll and adding some weight, informed my guess as to her weight. While I didn't think that was necessary, I forgot how deep one can dig when one gets into fun discussions like this one.
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Sorry, I should have mentioned that Belkar's point on what he weighed, and my brain taking half troll and adding some weight, informed my guess as to her weight. While I didn't think that was necessary, I forgot how deep one can dig when one gets into fun discussions like this one.
    One might mention that there may be issues with teaching halfling children to walk. It's difficult enough with human children whose heads are proportionally large and mounted on slender, undeveloped necks. Although that may be why halfling necks are strong enough to mitigate the hazards of execution by hanging.

    And now I am stuck wondering about halfling hips and childbirth. Do they have a hinged pelvis?

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Get a deepspawn, feed it a shambling mount (or other plant monster), infinite fiber source.

    Alternatively in most Underdark civilizations in D&D across editions there are mentions of fibrous fungi that are staples of their cuisine (and many make wines or other forms of alcohol and even flour from fungi).
    Last edited by Nymrod; 2021-09-29 at 03:40 AM.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Are we sure she hasnít been teleporting to Cliffport to get her supplies?
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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Are we sure she hasnít been teleporting to Cliffport to get her supplies?
    I suppose that's possible. If I read the documentation aright, it would require either somebody who can cast 5th level spells and who knows both endpoints of the trip well, or consuming fairly expensive magic items.

    I think she'd rather not let anybody else know where she is living here. I don't have any idea what her budget can cover, nor whether she can cast such spells herself.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidSh View Post
    I suppose that's possible. If I read the documentation aright, it would require either somebody who can cast 5th level spells and who knows both endpoints of the trip well, or consuming fairly expensive magic items.

    I think she'd rather not let anybody else know where she is living here. I don't have any idea what her budget can cover, nor whether she can cast such spells herself.
    Or she could just have a permanent teleportation circle set up somewhere to go to Cliffport and a 1/day item of word of recall to return.

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    Default Re: The unavailability of fresh vegetables for Epic Characters in 3.5e

    Quote Originally Posted by RatElemental View Post
    Or she could just have a permanent teleportation circle set up somewhere to go to Cliffport and a 1/day item of word of recall to return.
    Tippyverse ahoy!
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