A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default What character works best in an antimagic field?

    What type of character works best when confined to an antimagic field? Presume that psionic/magic transparency exists.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Somebody with Ex DR x/magic
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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    A caster with Initiate of Mystra
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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by pabelfly View Post
    What type of character works best when confined to an antimagic field? Presume that psionic/magic transparency exists.
    A martial I suppose. Or an Initiate of Mystra. Or you could find the center point of the AMF and take cover from it. Could you give us more information on the scenario, or is this a theoretical scenario?
    Last edited by Asmotherion; 2021-09-25 at 09:15 AM.

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Despair View Post
    A caster with Initiate of Mystra
    That was my answer. Figured that this thread would be 1 reply long.

    Quote Originally Posted by loky1109 View Post
    Somebody with Ex DR x/magic
    … how does one get such?

    IIRC, Regeneration is (was in 3.0?) Ex, so that's a plus.

    Put Regeneration on an Undead, make the air poison, drop the temperature to unbearable levels, and not much will bother you. Also… you'll be immune to damage?

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    A martial I suppose. Or an Initiate of Mystra. Or you could find the center point of the AMF and take cover from it. Could you give us more information on the scenario, or is this a theoretical scenario?
    Theoretical scenario.

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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    A martial I suppose. Or an Initiate of Mystra. Or you could find the center point of the AMF and take cover from it. Could you give us more information on the scenario, or is this a theoretical scenario?
    No need to find the center. Just bring a handy-dandy tower shield!
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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Despair View Post
    No need to find the center. Just bring a handy-dandy tower shield!
    ...which still affects you, since it's your equipment (unless you can get someone else to use it on your behalf).
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2021-09-25 at 04:46 PM.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by loky1109 View Post
    Somebody with Ex DR x/magic
    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    … how does one get such?
    There's a number of PrCs that give it. Also Monk 20, if you really wanted. But the problem is that DR x/magic is Su, not Ex, so an antimagic field suppresses it.

    Or answering from the other direction, nothing gives Ex DR x/magic, because it doesn't exist.

    You can also get other forms of DR from various PrCs, but many that would otherwise be Ex are still granted or activated via Su, so they still wouldn't work.

    The ones that are natively Ex are usually physics professions and tend to be lower values, mostly 2-3 and some 5-6. The DR 10s are mostly (or all?) Su types like /magic or /evil.

    DR X/slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning should be (Ex)
    DR X/adamantine should be (Ex)
    DR X/— should be (Ex)
    DR X/silver or cold iron should be (Su)
    DR X/magic should be (Su)
    DR X/chaotic, lawful, holy, or unholy should be (Su)
    And yeah, tower shields are the stock method for breaking emanation effects. You're not using it as a shield, you're using it as a portable door, so shield proficiency requirements and equipment issues don't apply, but at the same time you wouldn't get the movement benefits of it being an equipped proficient item.

    It's fine though for situations where you need to break into an antimagic field or darkness spell or whatever and don't care about it taking a bit longer and being open to attacks of opportunity in the process.
    Last edited by Teth; 2021-09-25 at 04:54 PM.

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    A character with a belt full of ravenloft devices that replicate the effects of spells but are non-magical.

    A wizard who has reanimated a bunch of undead giants, because an undead giant with 40 str still has 40 str in an antimagic field.

    A wizard who has planar bound a bunch of outsiders, who are still outsiders in an antimagic field.

    A wizard with a shrink item on his conical hat that expands into a cylinder that blocks the antimagic fields line of effect, he then teleports away and uses rockburst to destroy the planet, since any world with antimagic doesn't deserve to exist.
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Put Regeneration on an Undead, make the air poison, drop the temperature to unbearable levels, and not much will bother you. Also… you'll be immune to damage?
    Regeneration doesn't work on creatures without a Con score.
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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Regeneration doesn't work on creatures without a Con score.
    Fast healing does, though. Use a fast-time, negative energy-dominant demiplane to add the evolved undead template to grab some.

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Regeneration doesn't work on creatures without a Con score.
    Source please? I've heard it before, but never read about it in a rulebook.

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Asmotherion View Post
    Source please? I've heard it before, but never read about it in a rulebook.
    As per the SRD:

    "A creature must have a Constitution score to have the regeneration ability."

    It's the very last line in the ability's entry.
    Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2021-09-25 at 07:18 PM.

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Not claiming it's the strongest, but my recent archer is almost entirely [Ex]. In an antimagic field it loses travel devo, invisible stalker, hunter's mercy, and abrubt jaunt (and some level 1 spell buffs). It keeps 16 bab, +44 att, and up to 95 dam against evil, before crit 20 x4. Firing 6 shots, with woodland archer adding +4 att, per miss, on all remaining shots in the round.

    Of course, it's not strong against neutral or good, living creatures with no arcane spells.

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    *I'm thinking that i should dump the last 2 levels for Stalker of Kharash 4: Hide in plain sight [Ex].
    Last edited by bean illus; 2021-09-25 at 11:42 PM.

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teth View Post
    Or answering from the other direction, nothing gives Ex DR x/magic, because it doesn't exist.
    FWIW, Dragonfire Adept gets (Ex) DR 2/magic at 6th level (increased to 5/magic at 16th)

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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by bean illus View Post
    Not claiming it's the strongest, but my recent archer is almost entirely [Ex]. In an antimagic field it loses travel devo, invisible stalker, hunter's mercy, and abrubt jaunt (and some level 1 spell buffs). It keeps 16 bab, +44 att, and up to 95 dam against evil, before crit 20 x4. Firing 6 shots, with woodland archer adding +4 att, per miss, on all remaining shots in the round.

    Of course, it's not strong against neutral or good, living creatures with no arcane spells.

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    Flaw Ancestral Relic
    Flaw Wild Cohort

    CC War = WF LB, Know, Know Devo, Darkstalker
    R FE Arcane Hunter, Track, WE,
    R RS, Collector of Stories, PS

    R Endurance, Slipping past [MOVEMENT]
    R Solitary Hunting
    Raptoran Exoticist-Hit and Run Tactics EWP: Bolas, Net, Kaorti arrows, Elvencraft bow, PBS, Imp FE

    S Skirmish (+1d6), trapfinding, Corner Perch [MOVEMENT]
    S Battle fortitude +1, uncanny dodge,
    9 S Fast movement +10 ft., trackless step, (+1d6, +1 AC), FotC

    S Alertness, Travel Devo
    SoK
    SoK FE Evil, Swift Hunter Skirmish (+2d6, +2 AC) FE 2 UNDEAD - +2 Evil

    Warblade Weapon Aptitude, Blood in the Water, Moment of Perfect Mind
    W Abrupt Jaunt, Combat, Woodland Archer
    MMo Crossbow Sniper, Nemesis - Evil

    WB Imp Uncanny Dodge, Iron Heart Surge
    MMo Invisible stalker, Ranged Weapon Mastery
    18 Ronin +1d6, Craven

    WB Battle Ardor, Dancing Mongoose
    OCh GLORY, open ff / IRS

    *I'm thinking that i should dump the last 2 levels for Stalker of Kharash 4: Hide in plain sight [Ex].
    This was a pretty interesting response. Thanks.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    FWIW, Dragonfire Adept gets (Ex) DR 2/magic at 6th level (increased to 5/magic at 16th)
    Author made a core rules error due to oversight, it happens, particularly with expansion material. Just treat the ability as (Su) like it should've been written in the first place and move on.

    From a game design standpoint, you almost certainly don't want physical defenses that can only be bypassed by magic to keep working when magic is unavailable. Either both work or neither works.

    DR being alternately Ex or Su is a pretty good design decision, albeit one that really should've been referenced in a great deal more locations. For example, monsters not having half their abilities given with a listed type is, well, what it is. It at least partly comes of lazy updates of older material between versions where those sort of system details didn't exist yet.

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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teth View Post
    Author made a core rules error due to oversight, it happens, particularly with expansion material. Just treat the ability as (Su) like it should've been written in the first place and move on.
    Specific trumps general.
    You can't know is this mistake or author's intent. And only proof of mistake can be changes in errata.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teth View Post
    Just treat the ability as (Su) like it should've been written in the first place and move on.
    It can be reasonable houserule, but only houserule. RAW is clear.
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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Wizard or Sorcerer with Invoke Magic spell, and enough 9th level slots to make it worthwhile? Although that only allows you to cast personal spells, from what I understand.

    Stupid question: if you had an innate Su or other ability being suppressed by AMF, could you use Iron Heart Surge to end the AMF?

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    The Blackfire Adept PrC can summon and call creatures even into antimagic and dead magic areas. That's the capstone, so you'd have to level to that point, but being able to use Gate or Planar Ally into a dead magic area would definitely give you a leg up on the competition even if the fiends you get wouldn't have access to their own magic. As written it lets summon spells work in those places too, even though the summoned creature should be suppressed.
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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Grafts from the Fiend folio can be fun too, throw them on any build you want.

    The graft weapon is fun since the item retains all of it's properties but no longer counts as being magical according to the graft rules.

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Y'all sleeping on the soulknife tho. They can still summon their mind blades and keep them with a successful Will save, which isn't difficult to make by the time AMF/NPF becomes a thing.

    Of course, they would have no abilities, which kinda sucks, but with it you can still bonk batman (take out its hat first) and your feats work just fine.
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Friend of mine built a Hadozee Swiftblade and at level 6 they get to use Haste as an Ex ability. He threw a AMF centered on himself and went to town of an academy of mages

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: What character works best in an antimagic field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teth View Post
    Author made a core rules error due to oversight, it happens, particularly with expansion material. Just treat the ability as (Su) like it should've been written in the first place and move on.

    From a game design standpoint, you almost certainly don't want physical defenses that can only be bypassed by magic to keep working when magic is unavailable. Either both work or neither works.

    DR being alternately Ex or Su is a pretty good design decision, albeit one that really should've been referenced in a great deal more locations. For example, monsters not having half their abilities given with a listed type is, well, what it is. It at least partly comes of lazy updates of older material between versions where those sort of system details didn't exist yet.
    Forsaker has scaling (Ex) DR/Magic. And it absolutely makes sense in their case. Not only because the focus of the class is to not use magic at all, but also because the point is "without your magic, you are nothing, while I, I am still a dragon powerful unbeatable fighter".
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