Nemesis (Evil): What to do with it?

[Doctor Despair]

I've been mulling over a build using the feat Nemesis for a while. The Nemesis feat, for those who aren't familiar, is an Exalted feat that grants:

Choose one of your favored enemies. You can sense the presence of creatures of this type within 60 feet, as well as pinpoint their exact location (distance and direction) relative to you. Normal barriers and obstructions do not block this supernatural ability, allowing you to sense the presence and location of creatures behind doors or walls, for example. This feat does not allow you to see an invisible or hidden creature (although you can still discern its location). In addition to sensing the presence of your favored enemy, you deal +1d6 points of damage on weapon attack rolls made against evil representatives of the favored enemy creature type.

I've been considering using it combined with one of the following two (identical) class features:

Favored Enemy—Evil (Ex): At 2nd level, a Stalker of Kharash gains evil creatures of all kinds as favored enemies. He gains a +1 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against evil creatures. He also gains a +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls against evil creatures. This bonus stacks with any other favored enemy bonus the stalker might have, such as from the ranger class.

Favored Enemy (Evil)(Ex): At 2nd level, a Harper Paragon gains evil creatures of all kinds as a favored enemy. She gains a +1 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against evil creatures. She also gains a +1 bonus on weapon damage rolls against evil creatures. If the Harper paragon has the favored enemy ability from another class (such as ranger) and a particular evil creature also qualifies as a favored enemy for that class, the bonuses stack.

This effectively allows you a line-of-effect-proof free-action detection mode for any evil enemy that, as far as I know, cannot be bypassed except for the Illithid Slayer level 6 ability "Cerebral Blind." While functioning as a detection mode, it is also a free-action detect evil that, as it isn't actually a detection spell, shouldn't be foiled by things like undetectable alignment, planar motes, or the like. I have been mulling over how to capitalize on the ability to always detect evil creatures around us, and I've been having a hard time settling on a concept.

Spoiler: Deep Diving Feats and Classes

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The following feats reference "favored enemy" or "favored enemies."

Spoiler: Favored Enemy Feats

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Ascetic Hunter: 1/2 favored enemy bonus on damage rolles to DC for monk stunning attack. Additionally, your levels in monk and ranger stack to determine unarmed damage.
Azure Enmity: Gain 1 point of essentia. 1/day, invest essentia to gain insight to normal favored enemy-related abilities.
Bane of Enemies: Epic feat that makes any weapon you field considered "bane" against favored enemies.
Bane of Infidels: Gain "worshippers of another deity" as a favored enemy (detailed in PGtF).
Death of Enemies: Epic feat that makes any crit on a favored enemy trigger a SoD fort save.
Edgewalker Sentinel: Gain +1 to preexisting outsider favored enemies, add some spells, and add a planar knowledge to class skills.
Extra Favored Enemy: Get a new favored enemy.
Favored Critical: As improved critical, but with any weapon, and only against a favored enemy you select. It does not stack with Improved Critical though.
Favored Magic Foe: Gain +1 to caster level checks to overcome SR, and effectively +1 to DCs of your spells and SLAs against a favored enemy you choose.
Favored Power Attack: Choose a favored enemy. Your power attack now is now x2/x3 for two-handed weapons instead of x1.5/x2 against that enemy.
Foe Hunter: Gain a new favored enemy depending on your home region.
Foe Specialist: Choose a type of creature from standard favored enemies. Deal 1d6 extra points of damage on a successful sneak attack against that enemy.
Hunter's Mark: +1 to your favored enemy bonus. This is the first ACTUAL increase to our favored enemy bonus instead of granting an identical bonus against favored enemies, and so might actually work with Ascetic Hunter.
Improved Favored Enemy: Deal an extra 3 points of untyped damage to favored enemies; it stacks with existing favored enemy bonuses, so it should also work with Aesthetic Hunter.
Murderous Intent: A vile feat that allows you to select a favored enemy, then use a full-round action to melee attack it. On dealing damage, you get a will save or restrict the creature to a single move or a single standard action that turn. Also, you automatically confirm crits. It's a great ability for a critfisher, but as it's vile, it's a nombo.
Supernatural Blow: If your favored enemy is normally immune to crits, you can use this to deal 1d6/damage die that your weapon would normally do on a critical hit when you would otherwise critically threaten. Also, your favored enemy damage bonus applies normally.
Swift Hunter: Your ranger and scout levels stack to determine skirmish bonuses, and with regard to favored enemy bonuses. Also, you can apply skirmish damage even if the creature is normally immune to extra damage from skirmishes or crits.
Vow of Vengeance: Another vile feat; this one grants a +2 profane bonus to damage against a given creature type from the normal list of favored enemies, as well as a +4 profane bonus to confirm crits against them.
Wise to your Ways: Gain our favored enemy bonus to saves against the ex, sp, and su abilities of the favored enemy. This doesn't include casting, sadly, but is fairly broad. It also is the favored enemy bonus, and not the favored enemy bonus on damage rolls, as of Ascetic Hunter, so we'd be restricted to +1 at the first level, +2 at the fifth level, and so on, making it less valuable, but not useless.

Out of these feats, nothing really caught my eye. Aesthetic Hunter was a little interesting, but stunning is pretty narrow so far as strategies go. Nemesis, at least, would help us to know who to use the stunning strikes on, and the bonus could get pretty high if we start stacking favored enemy bonuses from other classes. Swift Hunter seems potent enough if we focus on skirmish, although I haven't necessarily committed to that. Nemesis doesn't really synergize very well here, as we get the extra damage regardless of whether we know they're evil or not.

Offhand, I'm disappointed that Favored Critical doesn't have text letting it satisfy prerequisites in lieu of Improved Critical for the purposes of affecting favored enemies.

Spoiler: Feats Referencing "Evil Alignment" or "Evil Creature."

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Celestial Heritage: Gain some bonuses to saving throws against disease and evil creatures' spells or effects.
Celestial Sorcerer Lance: Use a standard action to expend a spell slot and shoot a 60-foot line of energy that damages evil creatures. This, at least, would benefit from us knowing whether the creatures in question were evil, although it seems... underwhelming as an ability, as it deals 1d8/spell slot (reflex half).
Fist of the Heavens: Adds +2 to our stunning fist DC when used against an evil creature, and staggers it the round after it's stunned. Aesthetic Hunter was already one of the more synergistic techniques to combine with Nemesis (Evil), but while this empowers it against those it was already strong against, it still leaves us with no easy answer against those immune to Stunning Fist.
Holy Ki Strike: Unarmed damage gains +2d6 holy damage against evil creatures, and counts as holy. It does not stack with Sanctify Ki Strike. This is a decent boost in damage, but doesn't benefit from knowing who is evil.
Holy Strike: This one's an epic feat. Any weapon we wield is treated as holy (+2d6 damage toe vil creatures), and blessed, but doesn't stack with other "holy" enhancements.
Improved Smiting: Smiting overcomes alignment-based DR and deals +1d6 damage. Smiting always benefits from knowing who is and is not evil, of course.
Infernal Bargainer: You are more effective with certain spells that interact with evil creatures. The specific spells don't benefit from Nemesis.
Knight of Tyr's Merciful Sword: This is a very flavorful feat that lets you essentially detect evil out to 10 miles away 1/day, giving the DM the ability to direct you where the plot needs you to be. It isn't synergistic with Nemesis, but the flavor matches it very well.
Open Soul Chakra:An epic feat that can grant +2 on damage rolls against evil creatures (and bind soulmelds or items to the soul chakra, but obviously we'd be here for the damage boost!)
Purify Spell:A +1 metamagic spell that causes evil creatures to take x2 damage from a spell. This is synergistic with Nemesis, as it helps us know when to use the metamagic'd spells versus normal spells.
Purify Spell-Like Ability:As Purify Spell, but for SLAs. It allows you to purify each of your SLAs 3x/day (up to your normal use limit).
Quell the Profane:On a melee crit, evil enemies must make a fort save or take 1d4+1 temporary strength damage. Neat, but doesn't benefit from knowing who is evil.
Sacred Radiance:Use a turn undead attempt to create light that buffs non-evil creatures and gives evil creatures -2 to fear effects. Works whether we know they're evil or not.
Sacred Strike:Sneak attacks against evil creatures use d8s instead of d6s, and count as good-aligned. Works whether we know they're evil or not.
Sanctify Ki Strike:Unarmed strikes do extra damage to evil creatures, and more extra damage against evil outsiders and undead, and count as good-aligned. Works whether we know they're evil or not.
Sanctify Martial Strike:Whenever we use our weapon-focus weapon, it deals extra damage against evil creatures, even more extra damage against evil outsiders and undead, and counts as good-aligned.
Sanctify Natural Attack:As the previous two, but for natural attacks.
Sanctify Weapon:When you cast align-weapon, the weapon becomes sanctified (extra damage against evil creatures, even more against evil outsiders and undead). It also prevents creatures with the corrupted template from recovering HP damage from this weapon by any means of normal healing.
Smiting Power:Use our smite to bull rush or overrun; the bonus to attack rolls goes into the strength check instead. If we win, we deal damage equal to the smite's bonus to damage. As smite benefits from knowing if they're evil or not, so does this power.
Touch of Golden Ice:This is probably the most interesting ability, as it triggers whether we know it or not, but we might not WANT it to trigger. There may be situations where we don't want to immediately kill or cripple an evil creature we shake hands with. Knowing if a creature is evil could be of merit here.
Note:This list was excluding a few effects that required or discussed you specifically being evil. These included Blessing of the Godless, Corrupt Spell-Like Ability, the Deformity (Face), Evil Brand, and Touch of Benevolence.

There is a LOT of support for unarmed strikes, and more support for Stunning Fist, but still no means to overcome the fact that undead, constructs, plants, oozes, incorporeal creatures, and other creatures immune to crits are immune to the effect, as well as anything or anyone just plain-old immune to stunning.

On the note of dealing with those creatures, Touch of Golden Ice is a fascinating ability. It would affect any evil creature we couldn't affect with Stunning Fist, although Delay Poison would allow a CL check to delay the effects, and it wouldn't function in an AMF. The DC seems to be the subject of a lot of debate (is it 14, as of Golden Ice, or 10 + 1/2 HD + Cha, as of supernatural abilities?), but even assuming it's a flat 14, repeating the check seems trivial enough if you can stack up natural attacks with Warshaper or something similar. Iirc the consensus on Warshaper is that you get one of each type of natural weapon you don't have, then increase the size of any natural weapon you originally had, as the "same effect" stacking prevents growing multiples or increasing their size multiple times. Still, that's a handy amount of attacks. A necklace of natural attacks with the throwing/returning property would let us apply them at range, too, in which case our Nemesis feat would come in handy again, letting us know which targets to strike with our attacks.

While I was trying to find something more interesting than "know when to smite," maybe there will be something buried in smite support. Harper Paragon and Stalker of Kharesh both advance smite uses, so this is synergistic if we are looking to finish out those prestige classes:

Spoiler: Feats that Reference "Smite."

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Ascetic Knight Paladin and monk levels stack to determine unarmed strike damage and smite damage.
Awesome Smite: Enables tactical uses of power-attack'd smite. 1: use smite to ignore DR equal to 2x cha bonus. 2: use smite to attempt to trip 1/round. 3: the smite ignores any miss chance. This means we can ignore the miss chance of an enemy with total concealment, or with incorporeality, that we have pinpointed with Nemesis. This is incredibly synergistic.
Devoted Inquisitor: Smiting and sneak attacking in the same round causes a charisma-based will save to avoid being dazed for 1 round. Immunity to daze is somewhat rare, so this could actually be somewhat useful. However, the requirement to sneak attack makes it... problematic to trigger. Boomerang Daze might be strictly better? To be fair, Boomerang Daze would require EWP, Boomerang Daze, and then also Ranged Smite if you want to be able to smite with them, too. This is a one-feat investment. Add a flanking buddy like an animal companion or wild cohort to trigger it reliably, I suppose.
Devoted Performer: Levels in bard stack with levels in paladin to determine bonus smite damage.
Devoted Tracker: Levels in ranger stack with levels in paladin to determine smite evil damage.
Dragonmark Smite: When you smite someone, spend 1 action point to force a fortitude save that has some sort of debilitating effect. Sadly, action points are a variant system, as the effects are generally pretty good (dazed/prone and dazed/unconscious).
Exalted Smite: When you use smite evil, your weapon counts as good-aligned.
Extra Smiting: We get two extra smites each day.
Ghost Smiting: We can smite ghosts even if they aren't evil!
Great Smiting: An epic feat that lets treat our level as twice our appropriate level for determining smite damage.
Holy Subdual: When dealing nonlethal damage with our weapon, we can transform bonus damage from a holy weapon, smite evil, or our smite granted power into nonlethal damage, too.
Improved Smiting: Overcome DR as if it had an alignment, and deal +1d6 damage to your targeted alignment.
Initiate of Bahamut: Gain smite, using the sum of our cleric levels as paladin levels, stacking with other classes. Add some spells to our list.
Initiate of Nobanion: Gain smite! It uses +4 to attack, + the sum of cleric/druid/ranger/paladin levels for damage, and only works against followers of Malar. Also, gain some spells.
Initiate of Torm: Gain smite! It uses +4 to attack, + the sum of cleric/druid/ranger/paladin levels for damage, and only works against followers of Bane of Cyric. Also, gain some spells.
Paladin of the Noble Heart: We get an extra smite that can only be used on followers of Loviatar or its items.
Ranged Smite Evil: Smite with ranged attacks!
Sapphire Smite: Gain 1 essentia, and invest essentia 1/day to get extra smites and 1 points of damage per smite for each point
Serenity: Use wisdom instead of cha for smite (and other things)
Silver Smite: Do 1d6 sacred damage to your evil opponent on a smite

Some irrelevant feats that referenced it were Blessied of the Seven Sisters, Blessings of the Godless, Celestial Mount, Craft Crystal Weapon, Cuthbert's Smite, Divine Metamagic, From Smite to Song, Killoren Destroyer, Smite Fiery Foe, Smiting Power (already hit it), Strength of Conviction, Tainted Smite, Touch of Hate, Veil of Cyric, and Wandstrike.

Out of these, Awesome Smite and Devoted Inquisitor seem like the clear winners. Ranged Smiting and Serenity seem situationally useful depending on the build we use, and Improved Smiting/Silver Smite seem like decent sources of raw damage.

I took a look to see what prestige classes transformed or buffed our Favored Enemy in some useful way apart from Harper Paragon or Stalker of Kharash, and came up with these:

Spoiler: Favored Enemy Classes

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Avenging Executioner: After 2 levels, intimidate as a move action, and add favored enemy bonus to the check when relevant. There are faster ways to increase a skill check, but this is still neat.
Duraak'ash: After 4 levels, advance our favored enemy (evil) by +2. Do it again at 9th level.
Foe Hunter: Designates our Favored Enemy as a Hated Enemy, granting buffs throughout the class. Once attack per round deals 1d6 extra damage for each odd level of Foe Hunter, and these ignore immunity to crits. We get DR 3/- against evil enemies, +2 at level 4, 6, 8, and 10. We get SR 15+ foe hunter level against evil creatures' spells and SLAs. We also get a death attack that we can make when an enemy is denied their dex to AC, but it need only deal damage, not be a sneak attack, evading the only immunity to the effect (apart from immunity to damage). Death attack is still not great as a technique unless you're initiating combat with it, but to be fair, Nemesis might help with that, too.
Shadow Scout: After 1 level, advance our favored enemy (evil) by +1, then again at 4, 7, and 10.
Swanmay: After 2 levels, advance our favored enemy (evil) by +2.

I looked at prestige classes that transform our ability to interact with "evil creature"s and benefit from Nemesis's identification in some way...

Spoiler: Classes that reference "evil creature"

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Beloved of Valeran: After 10 levels, grants a mass AOE Baleful Polymorph SLA that only works on evil creatures within 30 feet. Functions 1/day.
Grayguard: Lets you use lay on hands to deal no-save damage to evil creatures.
Hellreaver: This class grants a number of abilities that are use-activated, one of which causes a single attack to get a bonus and deal extra d6s of damage. It's honestly a lot like smite, but replenishes 1/encounter.
Lurk: Lurks get use-limited augments, one of which can be used to deal bonus damage to evil creatures.
Shining Blade of Heironeous: Gains a use-limited ability to boost damage by 2d6 bonus against evil creatures.
Silver Pyromancer: Lets you use a "smiting spell" to increase spell penetration against evil creatures, deal 50% extra damage against evil creatures, and have +2 to the DCs -- and this stacks with empower epell and other metamagic. At 5th level, it blinds the creature, too.
Slayer of Domiel: The class gets a death effect that only works on evil creatures, and is use-limited. Nemesis could come in handy here. It natively has detect evil at will, though, so... less handy than you'd otherwise think.
Troubadour of Stars: Adds a usage of bardic music to prevent creatures within 30 feet of using spells or SLAs. Causes a ton of nonlethal damage, takes a standard action to use... Honestly, if it were "if they are able to hear it" and not "within 30 feet," it might be viable. As it, they'll just walk away and cast.
Vigilant Eye of the Helm: Not exactly a Prc, but a 4th level paladin substitution level lets you convert a smite into an Awesome Blow against an evil creature, treating you as if you were one size category larger for the strike. In exchange for -4 to the attack roll, it forces a reflex save or fall prone with DC equal to the damage dealt, and pushes them 10 feet in any direction we choose.

I also took a look for classes that modified Stunning Fist in some way -- and there was surprisingly little support for it.

Spoiler: Stunning Fist classes

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Argent Fist: When you smite and use Stunning Fist, raise the DC by your prc level.
Disciple of the Word: Adds a ton of ways to expend Stunning Fist, but none of which interact with Nemesis in a meaningful way.
Exotic Weapon Master: You can use stunning fist with an exotic weapon.
Fist of Dal Quor: You can use stunning with with any weapon. Also extra uses of stunning fist.

There was... a lot to sift through for "smite," so I didn't go down that rabbit hole yet.

Spoiler: Final Thoughts

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My general impression is that Foe Hunter seems ridiculously effective for making a big dumb beatstick to beeline for evil characters and smash their brains in. Ranger 5 / Stalker 2 / Foe Hunter 4 would give you 50/50 odds of evading enemy spells. The DR 3 at level 8 is underwhelming. The flat damage scales quite well, and unlike sneak attack, isn't situational against the things we'd care to fight. Most of these prcs offered flat boosts to damage though. The death attack is interesting, as it evades the sneak attack requirement, but it comes online so late and after so many boosts to damage that it's probably not worth even considering.

The paladin ACF to trade smite for Awesome Blow was interesting; it's a shame that it's a nombo with Devoted Inquisitor. The essentially guaranteed trip could be worth something. Being able to force enemies prone and drop them where we want is good. It also works on creatures our size or smaller; large size is fairly simple to acquire, and huge size isn't impossible with the right race.

Devoted Inquisitor was also interesting, but it only works on enemies we can sneak attack. Deathstrike Bracers can help with that 3 times/day, or getting access to Penetrating Strike with Rogue 3. Then we'd be forcing the save/daze as often as we can smite. Therein lies the problem; how many smites will we realistically have where this is the major synergy we're pursuing? We won't be wasting them due to hitting non-evil opponents, thankfully, but still. The same limitation applies to the Awesome Blow ACF.

We end up with a LOT more uses for Stunning Fist, so maybe that's the most effective route to take it in? We could optimize for our Stunning Fist DC, and toss on Touch of Golden Ice for bonus damage against those normally immune to our stuns. Maybe use Changeling or Hengeyokai or something to get the shapechanger subtype to get proficiency with our natural weapons (and therefore our unarmed strike...), and also to qualify for Warshaper.

I suppose, at the tail end of this, I'd like to ask the forum: how do you see Nemesis (evil) being used most effectively out of these tools? Or did I miss something obvious that would be a better direction to go in than what I'm considering?

[Promethean]

Jesus, I think we found the answer to "how do I be a paladin without being a paladin?"

[Gruftzwerg]

Imho this would be a good compliment to a Mindbender.

As Mindbender you already have telepathy and will go for Mindsight. Nemesis (evil) could help to detect those who hide their thoughts magically. These are normally a big deal for a Mindbender. With nemesis you would at least notice them and thus work around your weaknesses as Mindbender.

Dip warlock and go for full Mindbender, since the prc abilities rely on prc lvl and not on caster lvl. This allows the build to work despite losing many caster lvls. Maybe go for a Mindbender gish and add a nice aura stance from ToB to support your charmed target and your teammates.

[Anthrowhale]

The standard use I've seen is via Swift Hunter. Between that, a method like Travel devotion to always move, and greater manyshot, you can make a pretty fierce archer. Alternatively of course, it could work well with an ubercharger.

[Zarvistic]

I always found blindsight or sense a lot easier to get and is only slightly worse than this.

I think you are overestimating it btw. This doesn't give line of effect or line of sight. Not more than you would have without it anyway.

[hamishspence]

I always found blindsight or sense a lot easier to get and is only slightly worse than this.

I think you are overestimating it btw. This doesn't give line of effect or line of sight. Not more than you would have without it anyway.

It goes through all walls though, unlike regular Detect Evil.

. Normal barriers and obstructions do not block this supernatural ability, allowing you to sense the presence and location of creatures behind doors or walls, for example.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

Each round, you can turn to detect evil in a new area. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.

[Promethean]

Imho this would be a good compliment to a Mindbender.

As Mindbender you already have telepathy and will go for Mindsight. Nemesis (evil) could help to detect those who hide their thoughts magically. These are normally a big deal for a Mindbender. With nemesis you would at least notice them and thus work around your weaknesses as Mindbender.

Dip warlock and go for full Mindbender, since the prc abilities rely on prc lvl and not on caster lvl. This allows the build to work despite losing many caster lvls. Maybe go for a Mindbender gish and add a nice aura stance from ToB to support your charmed target and your teammates.

It also works on things trying to hide their alignment like Lilitu.

[Zarvistic]

It goes through all walls though, unlike regular Detect Evil.



https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

That's true. I was thinking more of the ability not allowing for line of effect or sight, so you still couldn't target with spells and the target has total concealment, so no charging or precision damage as mentioned. Unless you could already do it without the feat.

Awesome Smite could be interesting though. Perhaps also with an ability like arcane archers phase arrow, but easier to acquire.

[ShurikVch]

For the Favored Enemy

Spoiler: Feats in Dragon #335

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Favored Dodge: adds your FE bonus as a dodge bonus to AC - against a single type of Favored Enemy
Intimidate the Enemy: adds your FE bonus to demoralize a single type of Favored Enemy in combat (as a move action)
No Threat To Me: your ranged attacks not provoking AoO from a single type of Favored Enemy
Tactical Advantage: adds your FE bonus to opposed checks for trip, disarm, and bull rush attacks - vs single type of Favored Enemy

Spoiler: Trophy Hunter (Dragon #332)

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Choose one of your favored enemies and one of the following trophies. You can use the chosen body part of a chosen favored enemy that you personally kill to temporarily increase your favored enemy abilities against other members of the chosen favored enemy's type. The benefits you gain depend on the part of the body you utilize. The body part to be used may be preserved with a gentle repose spell (extending its viability for as long as that spell's duration), but nonmagical attempts to preserve it ruin it for the purpose of using this feat. All benefits are supernatural mind-affecting effects.

Head: adds your FE bonus to Intimidate checks; extra heads give +1 bonus on checks (up to +4); head lasts for a week
Heart: eating a heart of the Favored Enemy gives +2 morale bonus on attacks vs creatures of the same type for 10 minutes - presuming you make a successful save (otherwise, you get no benefits, and may be sickened/nauseated/damaged - depending on FE); Undead hearts are unusable (ans many "more unusual" creatures have no heart in the first place); heart lasts for 10 minutes from the Favored Enemy's death
Token: crude jewelry from the bones, eyes, or teeth grants +2 morale on Fort saves vs SLA and SU of the Favored Enemy; necklace slot; token lasts for number of days equal to how much your Survival check exceeded DC 15 necessary to construct it (minimum - 1 day)
Pelt (scalp or hide): +2 morale on all attacks made against creatures of the same type; lasts for 24 hours, or - until the end of the next encounter with at least one creature of the same type

For "evil" creatures
Initiate of Heironeous (Dragon #342): longsword does +1d4 damage vs evil creatures (or +1d6 - if Outsider, or have aura of evil)
Smite Carrier (Dragon #337): allow to smite non-Good creature with poisonous or infectious natural attack
Fiendsign (Dragon #315): fiends got -2 penalty on saves vs your spells, and you got +2 to overcome their SR
Pureheart (Dragon #346): +4 bonus on saves vs any attacks/abilities of Evil Outsiders
Fiend Slayer PrC (Dragon #287): capstone - Neutralize Evil - prevent the Evil Outsider from using any magic (Su/SLA/Spells - even magic items!) for 24 hours; no save or SR, but required touch attack, and 1/day

For Stunning Fist
Bane of the Clockwork - Monk 3rd-level ACF from Dragon #351 - you can use Stunning Fist on Constructs, and can crit Constructs with unarmed strike (thus, probably, SA them too?); lose Slow Fall and 6th-level bonus feat
Shadow Sun Ninja: Darkness within Light CF - blinded enemies get -2 on saves vs your Stunning Fist

Also, note: it's possible to get Nemesis as a bonus feat (thus, requirement-free) from the Sworn Slayer PrC (Dragon #324)

[Jervis]

Imho this would be a good compliment to a Mindbender.

As Mindbender you already have telepathy and will go for Mindsight. Nemesis (evil) could help to detect those who hide their thoughts magically. These are normally a big deal for a Mindbender. With nemesis you would at least notice them and thus work around your weaknesses as Mindbender.

Dip warlock and go for full Mindbender, since the prc abilities rely on prc lvl and not on caster lvl. This allows the build to work despite losing many caster lvls. Maybe go for a Mindbender gish and add a nice aura stance from ToB to support your charmed target and your teammates.

I think the people suggesting mindbender are missing something.

Mindbender Requirements: Any Nongood

Nemesis feat type: Exalted

Those two are kind of in contradiction. I’m usually in favor of waving alignment requirements because the 3.5 alignment system is dumb but exalted feats with a nongood PrC is like being a necromancer of pelor

[Gusmo]

If you're looking for infallible sensory perception, I recall the psionic power touchsight being pretty good. I recall discussions of finagling transparency rules to allow persisted and transdimensional touchsight, which seems like it would also be quite effective.

[Gruftzwerg]

I think the people suggesting mindbender are missing something.

Mindbender Requirements: Any Nongood

Nemesis feat type: Exalted

Those two are kind of in contradiction. I’m usually in favor of waving alignment requirements because the 3.5 alignment system is dumb but exalted feats with a nongood PrC is like being a necromancer of pelor

Oh yeah, missed that. Well, you could try to tart as evil and become good after the first lvl of Mindbender to get the exalted feat. But easier said than done.

[Jervis]

Oh yeah, missed that. Well, you could try to tart as evil and become good after the first lvl of Mindbender to get the exalted feat. But easier said than done.

Don’t you loose your level in mindbender then? I remember some rule about alignment requirements always needing to be met

[Doctor Despair]

I some more digging and, completely unrelated to being able to detect evil creatures, there are some interesting alternatives for our stunning fist attack.

You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). By expending one Stunning Fist use for the day, you force an opponent successfully struck by your unarmed attack, and all creatures adjacent to that opponent, to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifi er) or be stunned for 1 round. The opponent struck by the unarmed attack is dealt damage normally. This feat can be used only once per round.

Relatively low prerequisites, but doesn't carry exactly the same restrictions that Stunning Fist does. It still doesn't hit constructs, oozes, plants, or undead, but it does let us stun incorporeal creatures and creatures that are otherwise immune to crits.

When you make a stunning attack, you may choose to inflict 1d4 points of temporary Strength damage instead of stunning your target.

With excessively steep prereqs that make you MAD as hell, you get a way to affect oozes and plants.

You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). By expending one of your Stunning Fist uses for the day, you imbue your next unarmed attack with disruptive ki that mimics the effects of mild viper venom. If that attack hits, it deals normal damage and forces the target to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifi er). A creature that fails the saving throw takes 1d3 points of Constitution damage and must make a similar saving throw 1 minute later or take another 1d3 points of Constitution damage. This feat can be used only once per round.

With much less steep prereqs, you get a way to affect oozes and plants. It's explicitly ki, not poison, so this should work.

This feat's benefit depends on the patron deity of the monastery where you studied.

Lathander: You can channel your ki to turn an undead creature. Once per day you can choose to imbue a single unarmed strike with ki; this decision must be made before the attack roll is made. If you hit an undead creature with this attack, it is turned unless it succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Wis modifi er). If the undead creature has turn resistance, it can add this as a bonus on its save. If you have the Stunning Fist feat, you can also expend a daily use of your stunning fi st to use this feat. If you have the turn undead class feature, you can expend a turn undead attempt to use this feat.

Sel?ne: Your unarmed strikes deal an extra 1 point of cold damage and count as silvered weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. When in moonlight or starlight, treat your monk level as three levels higher for the purpose of determining your unarmored speed bonus.

Sune: Your combat style is fascinating to watch. Once per day as a standard action, you can perform a maneuver that fascinates a single creature within 30 feet that can see you (Will negates; save DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + Cha modifi er). Creatures of a type different from your gain a +4 bonus on the save. This supernatural effect lasts for 1 round. If you have the Stunning Fist feat, you can also expend a daily use of your stunning fi st to use this feat.

This gets us turn undead in a way, and scales better than actual turning checks.

Between the last two feats (Sun Soul Monk [Lathander] and MWMII or Rattlesnake Strike), you can affect everything except constructs with some mode of stunning strike... Touch of Golden Ice is good for any evil creature, although most constructs are neutral iirc, so that doesn't really shore up things.

Don’t you loose your level in mindbender then? I remember some rule about alignment requirements always needing to be met

I'd be interested to know about that if you can find it.

That's true. I was thinking more of the ability not allowing for line of effect or sight, so you still couldn't target with spells and the target has total concealment, so no charging or precision damage as mentioned. Unless you could already do it without the feat.

Awesome Smite could be interesting though. Perhaps also with an ability like arcane archers phase arrow, but easier to acquire.

I just feel so bad about relying on Smite as a primary gimmick given how limited the uses are.

[Gruftzwerg]

Don’t you loose your level in mindbender then? I remember some rule about alignment requirements always needing to be met

That rule is sole found in two (early, almost 3.0) 3.5 books (complete warrior I guess was one of em) and their legality is to be questioned:

1. By RAW, the rule has no effect. Because the Primary Source for prestige classes is the DMG. This is explicitly called out in the Primary Source Rule (see Errata). So any other source has to follow those general rules or can make specific exceptions for its niche. Or you have to make a special call out that you are going to change rules, like Rule Compendium and the Errata does.

2. The wording implies a (wrong) reference. The text shows no intend to change any global rules nor creates a specific situation. It references assumed global rules that are not there.
wrong reference != new rule
Thus the text is dysfunctional and has no permission to do anything.

3. If you(r DM) should still decide to use this rule, several prc become dysfunctional, since their own abilities they gain later would disqualify them from the PRC. Best example here is Dragon Disciple. It requires you to be a nondragon and turns you into a dragon as capstone. If that rules would be in affect, the dragon disciple would disqualify himself as capstone.

From a rule standpoint imho it is clear. The rule has no permission and would cause dysfunction and therefore should be ignored.

No matter how you look at the rule, it doesn't work. It just makes wrong references and doesn't even pretend to change or add any new rules. Imho this is a 3.0 rule that carried over to the the first splatbooks, because they have been simultaneously designed while 3.5 was becoming a thing. They where released as 3.5 but as we see, some crap is still hiding within the rules.

edit: Everything above is sole for PRC and doesn't effect alignment requirements for base classes! These always require their alignment requirements to progress the base class.

[Maat Mons]

Regarding the Persistent Touchsight idea, the Crystal Master PrC has a class feature that continuously gives the benefits of Touchsight. Personally, I like combining it with that Telepath ACF that gives Telepathy, and the Mindsight feat.

Back on the topic of Nemesis, have you considered applying it to Favored Enemy (Arcanists)?

[Doctor Despair]

Back on the topic of Nemesis, have you considered applying it to Favored Enemy (Arcanists)?

It would be interesting to combine that with Sanctified Mind and Awesome Smite, assuming Cleansing Strike works on arcanists by psionic-magic transparency, and assuming it counts as a "smite attack."

Edit:

OK, so Ordained Champion actually gets a reasonable amount of smites to use each day. That's probably a must-include for a smite-based build. However, it also lets you smite creatures regardless of alignment. That's... not synergistic with Nemesis, although obviously it's a strict upgrade to standard Smite. I suppose if we enter with levels in paladin, it would help us maintain our code.

Additionally, it occurs to me that an invisible creature is considered to have total concealment. If they are evil, Nemesis should let us automatically pinpoint them. If we attack them with a smite, Awesome Smite should allow us to ignore any miss chance. That's a fairly synergistic technique. It occurs to me again that incorporeality would let us negate the miss chance of attacking from underground... Surely there's got to be something more tempting than that though.

[Zarvistic]

Was looking around a bit. What you think of a ballisteer with the phasing ability and a seeker enhancement on a bow? Only comes on at ecl 16 or so tho, so more like a gimmick.

Brilliant energy arrow could be interesting too, if getting into the stalker prc through mystic ranger for example. Thats just 1 arrow tho but still.

[Jervis]

Was looking around a bit. What you think of a ballisteer with the phasing ability and a seeker enhancement on a bow? Only comes on at ecl 16 or so tho, so more like a gimmick.

Brilliant energy arrow could be interesting too, if getting into the stalker prc through mystic ranger for example. Thats just 1 arrow tho but still.

Wait a minute

A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter... A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects.

You can just straight up shoot through walls with this can’t you?

[Doctor Despair]

Wait a minute



You can just straight up shoot through walls with this can’t you?

Yes, although you can't harm undead or constructs at all, as they aren't "living" matter. Probably means we can't apply Touch of Golden Ice to strikes made with one such weapon either (maybe with a Necklace of Natural Attacks), although arguably we don't have to do damage/"harm" them to make a touch attack...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Be careful when constructing and using brilliant energy weapons, since you can't store one in a nonliving sheath, nor can you expect to get one back if it falls through the floor. Gotta make sure there are non-brilliant portions for some (such as grips for a quarterstaff) and living components to storage spaces for all of them. Livewood is pretty much a necessity for both of these.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

<Snip>

You mentioned Mighty Works Mastery II. One thing to note is that, due to the wording, any attack that stuns a target can deal Str damage, instead, not just Stunning Fist.

When you make a stunning attack, you may choose to inflict 1d4 points of temporary Strength damage instead of stunning your target.

Note that there is no mention of "Stunning Fist," but instead it's "stunning attack." Sure, it's likely bad editing -- which WotC is absolutely notorious for -- but all we have to go off of is the RAW, and here, they say "stunning attack."

And since the prereq (MWM I) is about as useful as hiding in a fridge in the middle of a nuclear explosion, if you have to take useless prereqs, you might as well get something nice out of it...

[Doctor Despair]

You mentioned Mighty Works Mastery II. One thing to note is that, due to the wording, any attack that stuns a target can deal Str damage, instead, not just Stunning Fist.

Note that there is no mention of "Stunning Fist," but instead it's "stunning attack." Sure, it's likely bad editing -- which WotC is absolutely notorious for -- but all we have to go off of is the RAW, and here, they say "stunning attack."

And since the prereq (MWM I) is about as useful as hiding in a fridge in the middle of a nuclear explosion, if you have to take useless prereqs, you might as well get something nice out of it...

I agree that it should apply to any stunning attack. I was hoping to combine it with Pharaoh's Fist to inflict the damage on multiple enemies, but I don't think the word "target" is that generous. :/

Something I DID find, though, is Mind-Shattering Strike. There is no immunity to it that would apply apart from getting incorporeality or some other way to prevent us from actually hitting the target.

Before making an unarmed strike, a Kuo-Toa monitor can choose to use this feat, consuming one of the monitor's daily uses of the Stunning Fist feat, if a Kuo-Toa monitor next unarmed strke hits, the struck opponent must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the Monitor's HD+it's Wis Modifier). On a Failed save that foe attacks the closest non-kuo-toa on its next turn. This feat also grants 1 additional use of the stunning fist feat

It prevents enemies from any spellcasting or abilities that require a standard or full-round action, as they must attack themselves, which is pretty notable as a debuff. We can also conserve our Stunning Fist charges by using Kuo-Toa Monastacism, which allows us to guarantee a subsequent hit if the first hit of our Flurry of Blows hits. It's not as valuable as inflicting stun, or nauseated, or staggered, but it is immunity-proof.

It does, however, require us to be Kuo-Toa, which is a non-started without level-buy-off rules. They're LA+3 with 2RHD. You can buy that off by late-game, but you'll likely never catch up in XP, it'll be painful all game, and you'll be missing two class levels. It's... not ideal. I wish there was a better option for stunning fist. MWMII and Rattlesnake Strike let you use it to do physical damage (still doesn't help with constructs or undead), but we already have Touch of Golden Ice for rider effects. It's the lack of CC support that's disappointing.

A crit-based build capitalizing on Favored Critical struggles because crit immunity is fairly common among creature types and abilities. Deathstrike Bracers let you crit those immune by creature type 3x/day, threatening a Resounding Blow, but that's just 3x/day. There are also as few items, I suppose, that let you ignore specific immunities; A Greater Truedeath Crystal or Greater Demolition Crystal let you crit undead and constructs respectively. I'm not sure how common evil constructs would be, so that really just requires the former, although that still leaves oozes and plants. The Staff of Rapture has a critical threat range of 17-20 against evil creatures, so Favored Critical would bring it to 13-20, but as it only deals nonlethal damage, I'm not sure it would work. A few melee weapons have 18-20 naturally though, so keen and favored critical on them would get you to a range of 12-20. Bloodstorm Blade 2 would let you throw weapons as if they were melee attacks to trigger all this. I'm not particularly a fan of this school of build though, as there are just so many ways enemies could be immune to crits, even if you can reliably hit them and force the save.

Smite-based builds seem to just be baiting me into doing ANOTHER incorporeal build, but I'm hopeful I can find some sort of way to establish cover/concealment relative to enemies consistently to capitalize on Awesome Smite. Shadow Sun Ninja can establish total concealment for everyone 50% of the time... The Paladin Awesome Blow ACF could be neat terrain-dependent, and it can force enemies prone fairly consistently, so there might be something there, but it'll mean we need a dip into cleric to get turn undead back.

I feel like these are the main strategies to consider for Nemesis (Evil), and none of them are super exciting. Even the Kuo-Toa thing, while super unique, is going to end up pretty bad because of the crippling LA and RHD. I feel like smite is the most viable technique, and even that's going to end up usable 2 + cha times/day, so maybe one fight? Two if you're very conservative? I can't help but feel like we're hitting a wall. Maybe Favored Enemy (Arcanists) is the best way to use it...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It does, however, require us to be Kuo-Toa

You can take it as a kuo-toa, but you can only use it if you're the kuo-toan monitor in the description, since the feat specifies that only the kuo-toan monitor can use it due to the wording. Dumb as a box of bricks, but what can you do?

[edit] As for the LA problem, it's easy enough to use polymorph any object etc for that, but only for a kuo-toa and not as a monitor, which, as mentioned above, makes it useless.