Venom 2 Post-Credits Scene + MCU Implications [major spoilers]

[Psyren]

Turn back now if you don't want major spoilers for Venom 2: Let There Be Carnage.

So apparently Venom 2's post-credits scene is a pretty big deal for us connected-multiverse-ologists, and I'm typing all of this preamble so as not to spoil anyone who inadvertently mouses over the thread on the details.

Ready? Okay - essentially:

Spoiler: MCU Connection

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In the scene, Eddie and Venom end up in the MCU, or at least the legally-gray part of it that Tom Holland's Spidey inhabits. We all knew it was going to happen - Tom Hardy and Tom Holland interacting at some point was almost guaranteed for Sony as their most lucrative Marvel properties - but I didn't expect it to happen quite so soon. In fact, the way things are shaping up, Venom may even make an appearance in NWH!

Low quality version:



Synopsis:

Post his big finale fight with Carnage, Eddie's flees San Francisco (did his secret identity get exposed?) to live on a remote island - presumably in Mexico, echoing a similar event from the comics. Eddie and Venom are watching and discussing a dramatic telenovela whose theme is about keeping secrets. Eddie asks if Venom is keeping secrets from him, to which Venom responds:

"Eighty billion light years of hive knowledge across universes would explode your tiny little brain."
(emphasis mine, though I think Venom might be emphasizing that word too.)

This is a pretty big deal obviously - if the symbiote hive mind can share knowledge from one universe to another, Tom Hardy's Venom may have a pre-existing connection with Spiderman, allowing us to skip all the "how do they know each other" stuff and get right to the action. This is further supported by what takes place later in the scene:

Venom offers Eddie a tiny glimpse into that hivemind - doing so causes a... glitch, represented on screen by the telenovela they're watching fading into static. Simultaneously, the cabin is zapped from outside by a beam of light - which may be "Dr. Strange's" spell. The static then fades back in - to show us the DailyBugle.Net tv show that JJ Jameson was on, decrying Spiderman to be a menace to society as we saw in FFH.

On screen, JJ is promising to "untangle Peter's web of lies" and showing the unmasked Peter appear on screen. The really interesting thing is Venom's reaction - Venom appears to recognize JJ and Spidey, taking over Eddie and approaching the screen. Peter appearing causes Venom to say "...that guy..." and slowly lick the screen.

---

What it all means:

This indicates that, not only is Venom now in Tom Holland's universe, Venom already knows who Spiderman (and possibly even JJ) are. Combined with the multiversal hive mind stuff earlier, this suggests that this Venom is connected in some way to the Raimiverse Venom, who would know (and hate?) both characters pretty intimately.

As for how they can share knowledge across the multiverse - the creator of the symbiotes is a dark god named Knull, who is a pretty big deal in Marvel and would definitely have the power to pull off something like that. One of Knull's aliases is The Void, which could indicate a connection to Loki, Doctor Strange, and possibly even Shang Chi.

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm pretty excited to see what this might mean for the MCU and the SPUMC going forward, in NWH and beyond.

Also... I guess there's like a movie of some kind that happens before this post-credits scene? Like maybe I'll watch that too, I dunno.

[Bartmanhomer]

I have something to say about this sequel:

Spoiler: My Thoughts on Venom 2

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This sequel was so funny. I never knew that Venom was such a comedian. A very rare personality for an anti-hero in the MCU. I like that Venom was cracking so many jokes and he even was flipping the bird. Also, there was a romantic relationship between Cassidy and the woman who can use supersonic screams which I also enjoy. There wasn't anything I dislike about the movie. This is a perfect anti-hero movie. I'll give this movie 10 out of 10 stars.

[M1982]

I liked the movie, but somehow a little less than the first one. I never thought I would say this, but after already fighting another symbiont opponenent in the first movie, it just felt repetitive.

Also minor

Spoiler

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Venom just killed at least 3 totally innocent people. Now he's prone to killing slightly-non-innocenent people, who are far from deserving death. But at least those give him a little reason.

I mean on the other hand he killed a bunch of SWAT officers just doing their jobs in the first movie. Eddies "don't kill them" was sweet, but the way he threw those humans around like ragdolls? Yeah, they're pretty much dead

[Tvtyrant]

Venom uses looney toons physics and logic through both movies, I would just assume if they aren't dying for narrative purposes they are just stunned. Like Old Batman stuff.

[Psyren]

Most of what I've heard about this one is that people enjoyed all the Venom and Eddie character beats (odd couple, breakup, the rave... wait, how the hell does a symbiote attend a rave? Don't those usually have loud noises?) but the actual plot stuff with Carnage and Shriek were subpar.

As far as Venom's morality... I mean, he's kind of a jerk, this isn't anything new. "Lethal Protector" might be a step up from sheer supervillainy, but not very far.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I liked the movie, but somehow a little less than the first one.

Same boat, though I’m not sure for the same reasons.

Spoiler: Complaints

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• They humanized Kasady a little TOO much - having Cletus paired up with Shriek was fine but they should have dumped the ‘Oh I was abused as a child and that makes it okay for me to be a serial killer! Oh I just wanted to be friends with you Eddie!’ If they’d played it like Kasady was trying to manipulate Eddie it might have worked, but I’m really tired of these movies, shows etc. pretending that it’s okay to be an axe murderer if your backstory is tragic enough. It’s not.
• Anne’s makeup was sufficiently different I thought she was someone else at first. It’s better than in movie 1 (looking at you, Anne’s terrible wig!) but it was a bit jarring.
• I would have liked some explanation as to why Carnage being red was in any way relevant to his danger level. And it’s not a one-off comment either - pay attention earlier and you’ll note that Venom was avoiding eating the red M&Ms too. So there’s something about that color…that we are probably never going to find out.
• Carnage and his super powers that are never seen again - the silly tornado and the computer hacking.

Spoiler: On the other hand…

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• I was pleased to see the returns of both Mrs. Chen and Dr. Dan, and very pleased that Dr. Dan survived the movie. The supporting cast in these movies remains excellent - they really feel like decent but ordinary people.
• I liked the attention to detail and continuity between scenes - Venom breaks the TV, next scene there’s a new TV and the box that it came in. Dan and Anne took the time to grab their cat before fleeing for their lives. The mad scribbles in Cletus’ cell actually being plot relevant. Etc.
• Cletus breaking Shriek out of her box was adorable, all things considered.

Spoiler: And for the future

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• Part of me was disappointed they killed off Cletus/Carnage - but it was the logical, sensible thing to do so I’m not as bothered as I could be. And Knull resurrected him in the comics, so it’s not like a comeback is impossible…
• I’m reserving judgement on the mid credits scene until Spider-man NWH comes out. Taken by itself, it’s a deus ex, but if it ends up being a side effect from NWH I might forgive it.

[M1982]

and Shriek were subpar.

I am not even sure why the included her, as they clearly had no real idea what to do with her. Talk about a wasted character

[KillianHawkeye]

Spoiler: Complaints

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• They humanized Kasady a little TOO much - having Cletus paired up with Shriek was fine but they should have dumped the ‘Oh I was abused as a child and that makes it okay for me to be a serial killer! Oh I just wanted to be friends with you Eddie!’ If they’d played it like Kasady was trying to manipulate Eddie it might have worked, but I’m really tired of these movies, shows etc. pretending that it’s okay to be an axe murderer if your backstory is tragic enough. It’s not.
  

I really wouldn't say that this is the movie's message.

Spoiler

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Clearly Cletus himself believes it to be true, but he's an insane and delusional villain. In his warped and broken mind, that is a valid justification or at least a mitigating factor. But just because he says it doesn't mean the film is taking his side. And to quote Venom's response, "F*** this guy!"

Cletus keeps trying to bond with Eddie throughout the movie, and Eddie consistently rejects him because Cletus is a lunatic. This actually is a form of emotional manipulation on Cletus' part, which ultimately fails. And that failure is pretty indicative that the film isn't endorsing this behavior at all. Now if Venom had spared him at the end because they bought into his sob story, you might have a point. But that's not what happens.

I am not even sure why the included her, as they clearly had no real idea what to do with her. Talk about a wasted character

She seemed to mainly be there to

Spoiler

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insert conflict between Cletus Kasady and the Carnage symbiote.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I really wouldn't say that this is the movie's message.

Spoiler

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Clearly Cletus himself believes it to be true, but he's an insane and delusional villain. In his warped and broken mind, that is a valid justification or at least a mitigating factor. But just because he says it doesn't mean the film is taking his side. And to quote Venom's response, "F*** this guy!"

Cletus keeps trying to bond with Eddie throughout the movie, and Eddie consistently rejects him because Cletus is a lunatic. This actually is a form of emotional manipulation on Cletus' part, which ultimately fails. And that failure is pretty indicative that the film isn't endorsing this behavior at all. Now if Venom had spared him at the end because they bought into his sob story, you might have a point. But that's not what happens.

Venom doesn’t but Eddie’s last line to him (pulling from memory here):

Spoiler

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“I’m sorry, Cletus.” And he sounded remorseful to me.

I am not even sure why the included her, as they clearly had no real idea what to do with her. Talk about a wasted character

??? She had plenty to do.

Spoiler: Shriek and the plot

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• She was a love interest for Cletus
• She had a revenge quest against Detective Mulligan
• And as KillianHawkeye noted, she was there to create conflict between Cletus and the Carnage symbiote.

Is your complaint that she didn’t get to fight Venom??? Because as-is she’s got more to do than Pepper in an Iron Man movie.

[Delicious Taffy]

Is your complaint that she didn’t get to fight Venom??? Because as-is she’s got more to do than Pepper in an Iron Man movie.

Hey, that's not fair! Pepper gets to frown at Tony, make out with Tony, get kidnapped by the villain who's pissed at Tony and subsequently rescued by Tony, and uh.... Well, she doesn't get to make out with a tentacle monster, so I guess you have a point. Forget I said anything.

[Psyren]

Pepper got to kick some ass in IM3, but yeah, Marvel has a definite "token love interest" problem.

I found it particularly hilarious when what amounted to the entirety of What If S1 hinged on this enduring romance between Stephen Strange and Christine that was nowhere to be seen in the movie.

[The Glyphstone]

I was so certain she was his girlfriend who broke up with him after he wouldn't stop obsessing over curing his hands, I went to the wiki plot summary to confirm. But I was wrong, she's just a close friend/colleague.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

I was so certain she was his girlfriend who broke up with him after he wouldn't stop obsessing over curing his hands, I went to the wiki plot summary to confirm. But I was wrong, she's just a close friend/colleague.

??? That is her. In the Sacred Timeline they broke up before the movie started. Them not breaking up was the divergence that led to the What If? Episode.

[The Glyphstone]

??? That is her. In the Sacred Timeline they broke up before the movie started. Them not breaking up was the divergence that led to the What If? Episode.

Okay, so she is his ex when the movie starts. My memory is still wrong though, because I thought they were a couple when it started.

[ben-zayb]

I found it particularly hilarious when what amounted to the entirety of What If S1 hinged on this enduring romance between Stephen Strange and Christine that was nowhere to be seen in the movie.

Clearly, Strange loving Christine to that extent is the What If?

[KillianHawkeye]

Yeah they definitely started the film with some history (both as colleagues and dating). It's why she tried to take care of him after his accident, but he pushed her away and she was sort of like "I'm not going through this again with you".

[togapika]

Same boat, though I’m not sure for the same reasons.

Spoiler: Complaints

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[*]I would have liked some explanation as to why Carnage being red was in any way relevant to his danger level. And it’s not a one-off comment either - pay attention earlier and you’ll note that Venom was avoiding eating the red M&Ms too. So there’s something about that color…that we are probably never going to find out.

Spoiler: And for the future

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[*]Part of me was disappointed they killed off Cletus/Carnage - but it was the logical, sensible thing to do so I’m not as bothered as I could be. And Knull resurrected him in the comics, so it’s not like a comeback is impossible…

Hard agree on the first point. As for the other thing, they can easily pull from the comics

Spoiler: In the Comics

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Carnage is in his blood or something and can regenerate any part of Cletus' body, even his head

[KillianHawkeye]

For me, the second part was worse than the first. The action was enough, but the plot is kind of sketchy. And I never understood why Venom was afraid of Red.

They don't really explain the red thing, but clearly red symbiotes have some kind of better powers than other kinds. Which at least follows the history of Carnage having more advanced abilities than Venom does, but also feels like it echoes the first film's villain a bit.

Honestly, I think this film might have benefited from having a non-symbiote villain film in between the first Venom and this one, but everyone wanted to see Carnage and the timelines of the movie production wouldn't have worked out for it anyway. Superhero movies with mirror villains are a boring tradition at this point, but who would Venom even fight if not for another symbiote (or Spider-Man)? I have no idea. I guess the filmmakers don't, either.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Superhero movies with mirror villains are a boring tradition at this point, but who would Venom even fight if not for another symbiote (or Spider-Man)? I have no idea. I guess the filmmakers don't, either.

Maybe…the comics had a Symbiote Task Force. So maybe a quirky miniboss squad of guys with sonic weapons and flamethrowers? They could re-purpose the Jury(? Not sure of the name) from Hybrid’s rogues gallery.

The Poisons (for the non-comic-savvy: bone monsters that can kill a bonded symbiote and host on contact) you’d need at least one other symbiote available to redshirt in order to establish the threat properly. And a completely different setup from the comics, which leaned heavily on Dr. Strange, the X-men and other owned-by-Disney heroes to introduce them.

Knull would just be an army of symbiotes until the final battle.

Anti-venom runs into the same issues as Carnage as far as mirror match, and has less history.

Tel-kar and the Kree in general I think might fall under Disney’s banner too, though I guess they could just switch Tel-kar’s species to something else.