World of Warcraft - Interbellum (OOC Thread)

[MrAbdiel]

I have advanced the scene to Theramore! Feel free to react to any of the blips in time I commented on in my description, however; the world's your oyster, as always.

The most important scene, obviously, is the one in Evencane's office. Since it's Christmas now, I expect everyone to have a merry one; but if you want to post and RP it out, I'll be around. Otherwise, I look forward to reading your stuff when you get back!

[BananaPhone]

RL>RP errytime my friend! Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Likewise, Merry Christmas to yourself and everyone else here!

I'll resume posting in 2 days.

[Plaids]

Merry Christmas to everyone. I will be out for a few days with family and cooking a feast.

[MrAbdiel]

Merry Christmas indeed!

As concerns the present scene, FYI:

You're going into a period of downtime here in which, presuming your party takes up Lady Proudmoore's extremely generous offer and you do not willfully derail the plot train choo-choo, you'll be establishing yourselves as a neutral guild, with a guild house in Ratchet, some NPC staff, and an Argent Dawn agent joining your party. That means:

1. You're going to need to decide on a Guild Name, the hardest part of making a guild.
2. I'll present you with a selection of NPCs and give you options of hiring on some of them do fill out certain roles.
3. If you have some other role in mind and you wanted to search for an NPC to fill that, we can cheerfully negotiate and I'll probably go with it.
4. I'll give you a base, and some build points to customise that base using the M&M3 lair rules.
5. I want to keep Zachary on as an NPC for now both in case Hand Ax comes back, but also because he seems like the kind of guild member who it's good to have, even if most of the time he's loping off in the wilderness pursuing his own goals and bringing in guild income. Not to mention being available if you need Rifle-Aragorn to help out.
6. I'll be introducing a new character/player to the party! You remember JoyWonderLove, who posted interest early in the recruitment thread but surrendered the spot for Hand Ax? Well they're back! In Argent Dawn form! :) We'll do an introduction scene for the character once this scene is resolved, and we're all back on deck.
7. You can all have another 4PP for completing the quest and bringing the boys home. So far, I've dispensed 8PP since the games' beginning, if you're keeping track! When you've decided what to spend them on, please update your character sheets in their earliest post in this OOC thread, and mark them clearly, like "8 earned PP spent" or whatnot.

This is all, of course, proceeding under the assumption that you guys all want to stay on for another chapter, which I hope is the case but will always understand if it's not! :)

[WindStruck]

I'm not really sure... it does feel pretty railroady. What if we just wanted to play as having adventures but not like... you know, have a whole freaking base and a guild?

I do think Isaera's biggest complaint would be being so far away from "home" and family, in a town run by goblins no less.

Hard to say how she'd respond to it all at this moment.

But yes, Merry Christmas indeed! It's surprising to see a big update on the holiday.

[BananaPhone]

Indeed, Merry Chrissie all!

And double indeed, I don't think Marion would fancy living among a bunch of Goblins on the border of the Horde.

I think I mentioned an idea Marion had earlier, if we are to go the guild/little base thing. (which is just basically a name for an adventuring party and them having a HQ, which is pretty normal among D&D groups)

Marion had the idea of claiming land right outside of Theramore, within the protective ring of watch towers, and draining the swamp to develop agricultural land there and building her own tower and engineering school. That could be a closer-to-home alternative. Being a minor noble, of course, Marion wanted to be re-ennobled as the gentry of the land haha but still.

Perhaps if Marion drew up the plans and Isaera used her monstrious persuasion skill to sell it to Lady Proudmoore...

That would be a pretty cunning, warlocky move for Marion to get Isaera to propose this to Proudmoore, with Isaera not knowing about human political customs supporting the idea that Proudmore makes Marion a Baroness over the land as a consequence .

[WindStruck]

That does sound like a good idea, but you lost me at the part about human customs and becoming a Baroness.

[BananaPhone]

It's humor .

With a new area of land to the group getting drained and the embryo of a town, someone would have to administer it. Who would Proudmoore put in charge? The ogre? The troll? This is still an extension of human political/social customs, and in this medieval setting, that means aristocrats/lords/fiefs etc. So who would Jaina make the administrator of the new region? And what rank would she confer on them, the lowest one possible?

I'm saying it'd be a really Machiavellian move by Marion, it makes me chuckle picturing Isaera's response.

Know that scene in Pirates of the Caribean when William is like, to Jack, "You knew this? You planned this all along!"

And Jack just shrugging, "Yup!"

[JoyWonderLove]

Merry belated Christmas everyone. Hope it went exactly as wonderfully as you wanted this year.

Really interested to see what you help make of your (mysterious unnamed) guild! It should be fun with so many similar but different aims (Marion, Isaera and MorLag all seek arcane knowledge, but combined with very different complications between them; Jakkari might be the only unambiguously kind person out of us all?).

Let's see if I can play a highly flawed person with something resembling redeeming traits (hopefully I have enough exp from RL to pull it off... ). There's always a way to make it enjoyable but honest.

What types of NPCs were you all hoping to have join (if you're sticking around)? Also, is it worth Banana Phone waiting out the initial location and then being like "oh hey, you know what would be a GREAT place for our second location?! I'll even do the hard part to oversee it!" or am I being too naive about this?

[WindStruck]

Hello, and welcome!

If we are getting NPCs to help us out, I'm not sure who else we should be aiming for either.

People who are good couriers? Savvy merchants? More mercenaries? An old mage tutor as suggested? Or perhaps, a linguist?

[MrAbdiel]

I'm not really sure... it does feel pretty railroady. What if we just wanted to play as having adventures but not like... you know, have a whole freaking base and a guild? I do think Isaera's biggest complaint would be being so far away from "home" and family, in a town run by goblins no less...

...
And double indeed, I don't think Marion would fancy living among a bunch of Goblins on the border of the Horde...

Really interested to see what you help make of your (mysterious unnamed) guild! It should be fun with so many similar but different aims (Marion, Isaera and MorLag all seek arcane knowledge, but combined with very different complications between them; Jakkari might be the only unambiguously kind person out of us all?). What types of NPCs were you all hoping to have join (if you're sticking around)? Also, is it worth Banana Phone waiting out the initial location and then being like "oh hey, you know what would be a GREAT place for our second location?! I'll even do the hard part to oversee it!" or am I being too naive about this?

...If we are getting NPCs to help us out, I'm not sure who else we should be aiming for either... People who are good couriers? Savvy merchants? More mercenaries? An old mage tutor as suggested? Or perhaps, a linguist?

A little railroady, for sure! But I hope in the appropriate volume. I'm going to get a little game-philosophical here for a minute. If it reads like I'm talking down to everyone or spoonfeeding or anything else negative, it's only because I'm trying to be complete, as writing this is part of cleaning up my thought process on the whole thing. This is a good time to do it, both for me to purify my thoughts on it and to give you some insight into what I'm angling toward.

On GMing:

Railroading is, at least as it is popularly understood, a bad way to run games. You must cross the desert. You are on a train crossing the desert. You are free to rearrange the furniture on the train as much as you like in a way that expresses your character, but we are going to cross the desert because that's where the plot requires you to go. It's the bane of many published adventures which do not cultivate buy-in from players and characters and a few scenes in the characters are wondering can we just jump off the train? My character is more interested in exploring the dunes and looking at exotic lizards.

The obvious extreme flip is what I'll call dune buggying; the natural motorized selection for one who is enthusiastically exploring a non-linear path through a desert. You are in a desert. There are train tracks, and train filled with nerds winsomely recounting previous campaign highlights. You can follow them, or explore, or dig a hole, or build a sandcastle. Obviously there is more freedom for players and their characters here. It's more fun for many players though I hesitate to say most. New players, particularly, get decision paralysis when you stick them in a dune buggy and tell them to have adventures. Especially the newer generation of PnP players who are coming to the table not from reading about the Dragonriders of Pern or the Lord of the Rings, but from Skyrim, and Mass Effect, and World of Warcraft. They lean out of the dune buggy, squinting in the searing light of possibility, and wonder What am I doing here? How do I approach my victory conditions? How do I know I am winning? If I don't follow the train now, will I never know what the train was about? What are my cues I'm supposed to use to experience this space as completely as possible? But that part's not really an issue here. On a forum like this, it's reasonable to assume most players are either hardened grognards or at least reasonably familiar with how games tend to go.

And all of that is only the player side of the arrangement. You can sometimes find a GM/DM who is keen and delighted to run a dune buggy sandbox. They tend to be savvy, meticulous people with a shelf full of GURPS reference books and an amazing skillset that permits them to tell you that actually since you're playing in a kingdom that is essentially France in the eleven hundreds, the land situation is pretty locked up and the best chance you have to start a fief of your own is to take up the cross and go serve in the court of one of the crusader states, though to buy your way into influence there you'll want to have about eighteen or nineteen pounds of silver, and one of you should be an ordained priest. I love such GM/DMs. They are rare creatures, to be captured and respectfully studied like unbreeding pandas so that one day, God willing, there will enough of them that we need not fear their wholesale departure from the world.

But I am the other kind of DM, at heart. A Type-A, basic beachball, barefoot teller of tales. I am the archetype - someone who refuses to think of themself as a writer because they haven't actually cultivated the skilled patience to sit down and write something of a publishable length. One who loves stories, and narratives, and Joseph Campbells, and dark nights of the soul, and journeys that have a destination. I am, in short, someone who would desperately like to one day write a book or two; but for now I am someone who is just pleased to write, and pleased to write with and for you.

The with bit is the tricky part, because doing that badly means I am stuffing your characters in the train and implicitly demanding you play them as characters I would play, and that is not so fun for many and utterly extinguishing of the collaborative joy of PnP RPG to others. So if you'll indulge my distortion of the metaphor, my efforts in my games tend to be striving for a handcart variety of game.

I have a story that I want to tell but we only get there if you're invested enough to volunteer the labor of getting there. My job is not only to simulate the world and calculate and describe the impact your decisions have on the world, and not only to produce a script and successively seal off avenues until you are forced into my preferred protagonistic posture. My job is to understand your characters as you play them enough that I can braid them into a satisfying narrative without heavy handed coercion. That is what I am attempting to do.

This Game Specifically...

Like I mentioned at the start, part of my inspiration for this game was that I wanted to learn how to run the system (I think I have the hang of it now for the most part! :D). It's also a setting I love and have wanted to tell stories in for a while; and since many people have experienced Warcraft at various levels, there's a certain amount of affection for the setting and its messy sprawl of colliding tropes that I know I can expect players to also possess. When we were recruiting, I thought "If I'm lucky, everyone will choose Alliance folks, or Horde folks, and I can start them in Elwynn Forest or Durotar, and literally begin with quests like collecting wolf tails and skinning thunder lizards and jumping Hogger. And if they're a mix, I'll have to think of something else, which will be harder but more rewarding in its complexity." And you didn't disappoint! A High Elf who has good reasons to disdain the Horde, trying to hold together her family with the smoking ruins of Silvermoon behind her and the looming shadow of Horde integration infront. A human noble who despises the orcs as planetary invaders, but who is living in the impoverished reality brought upon her by human machinations, her countrymen and women and their neighbour kingdoms. An ogress with deep resentment for the Horde that led her people first into pressed service and then into defeat, not to mention personal loss and displacement; and whose minds are almost vibrating with the internal conflict of deeply rooted will-to-power individualism and the roots-and-wings legacy of ancient kingdoms, and honor, and shame, and generational interconnection. A Farraki sand troll whose people have been distant spectators at best for the three major wars that have defined the present world, who is staring down the barrel of, functionally, the age of colonialism and possible cultural annihilation if he, in his own elementally aided strength, cannot shield what is good and best about his people from the flensing sandstorm of indifferent, oncoming history. And, without being to spoilery about Hand Ax's character in hope of a return some day, a good soldier whose loyalty and skill were badly abused by the very forces of good that he raised his hand and stood up to protect.

This is an extremely diverse cast, even intimidatingly so; mainly because it ran into the first hurdle of any game that isn't a strict railroad: Why are these people hanging out at all?

The typical PnP conceit is that you all meet in a tavern taking the same job. And so I asked as you built your characters to integrate the fact that they'll need to be under enough financial pressure to take a dangerous mission with the promise of moderate pay. And that worked well enough! Traditionally, say in dungeons and dragons, when the level 2 characters return from their first mission together they conclude hey, we work pretty well together, let's keep doing this. I had a feeling that I wouldn't be able to rely on that here, though. The characters are so different, so differently incentivised, that it's just not realistic to imagine that once you got back to Theramore you'd all join hands and smile at each other, agreeing together that now we're family, and family sticks together.

Fortunately, one of the great things about a game like M&M3 is that it requires the players to produce a list of things that a canny GM can use to add incentives to the story. In this game, they're Complications. So then, if my task is to understand your characters as you play them enough that I can braid them into a satisfying narrative without heavy handed coercion, the next step was creating a more substantial reason for your characters to continue operating together, and to do that without drafting you, or arresting you, or asking you what you want to do next and then whack-a-moling your ideas until you choose the right one.

That's the origin of the Opal Collocation, from a plot standpoint. It makes sense to exist in the world (it's exactly the kind of thing people like Jaina and Cairne and the tree-huggers and rock-strokers of the world would set up), and the adventure you just completed was high enough profile that it's not confusing that you caught Jaina's eye or that she would try to invite you into such a project. It functionally allows you to go anywhere you want to go to pursue adventure in the name of global cooperation, and in doing so, bankrolls your characters sufficiently that gives them good reasons to consider it a financially strong move. On top of that, as I was putting this together, I went through your character's complications for the incentives you flagged and tried make sure the idea of joining the Opal Collocation made sense. It came out something like this.

Isaera's Complications
Spellcasting: Not Applicable.
Peace: Isaera wants the world to calm down long enough for her family and her people can breathe and begin recovery. Correlates strongly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Manabread for the Family: Isaera wants to protect her family both from physical danger, and also the bitter poverty they have been thrust into. While the stable and solid income would assist that goal, the idea of either living away from that family to earn that money, or moving that family to a neutral goblin town, is likely to be unappealing. Correlates and conflicts with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Bad Blood: Without the ability to trust the alliance to protect the elven people long term, Isaera worries about the alternatives that exist. Since the Collocations goal is to breed cooperation between the factions, it may work on some small level to mitigate some of the bad blood between elves and humans; and it certainly helps to hedge the elven bets with their closest neighbour being Lady Sylvannas's Forsaken. Correlates moderately with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
A Lot To Live Up To: Isaera wants to fill out the legend of her family name as an arcanist; which is hard to do as a penniless adventurer. Having a benefactor finance a private library or even full blown mage tower over time would greatly project her towards this goal - much faster than earning the money from jobs alone. Correlates strongly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Mana Addiction: Not Applicable.

Mor'Lag's Complications
Hates the Horde: Mor'Lag sees the Horde as the reason her father died in shame, and the reason she has been robbed of a legacy of glory and given one of clanlessness and shame. They're unlikely to see much inherently appealing about boosting relations between the factions. Conflicts moderately with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Orphaned: Not Applicable.
Power-Hungry: Mor'Lag sees Arcane and Fel power as the gateway to real, genuine power and therefor as strongly morally good. By the end of the first adventure, the idea of learning such things is actually possible and being financed to do so, especially with access to knowledge and tutors on both sides of the faction conflict, is likely to be very appetizing. Correlates strongly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.

Jakk'ari's Complications
Diplomacy: Jakk'ari wants to elevate the position of the Farraki in the eyes of both factions. Correlates strongly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Home: Jakk'ari's family are back in Tanaris. Ratchet is not too far away - not on the other side of the world, at least - but it would be even more of a sacrifice of the time he could give to his wife, and children, and tribe. Conflicts mildly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Travelling Shaman: Jakk'ari is trying to cultivate a reputation, and the clout that comes with it, of an elemental troubleshooter who can be relied upon, in such a way that reflects well on his people. Correlates strongly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Eager to Please: Jakk'ari is very inclined to accept decisions, even burdensome ones, that come from potentially powerful allies. Correlates strongly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.

Marion's Complications
Thrills: Being a part of this effort is as good a way, or better, to attract opportunities that bring high risk and the rewards that come with them. Correlates mildly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Knowledge Accumulation: Much like Isaera's arcane ambitions, Marion's dark designs are much more easilly realized with a wealthy patron and carte blanche access to mystical contraband - the sort of things that are only tacitly illegal in a goblin town, rather than a burnable offense in many others. Correlates strongly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Restoration of the Family Name: The Mordis legacy cannot be to vanish into shame and obscurity in the ashes of Alterac. While the long term project of recovering her family home is a physical world a way, this direction at least leads to possibilites of being recognized as a legitimate political figure, to gain allies, and maybe carve out a local domain even if her name is on the deed with four others. Conflicts mildly and correlates moderately with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Alteraci Minor Noble: Not Applicable.
Warlock: Can't be run out of town if you have diplomatic immunity. Correlates mildly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.
Flirt: While Marion's preferences have not been stated in explicit and definitive detail, it seems likely that her prospects for flirtation are limited by a demographic preponderance of neighbours who are three and a half feet tall, and green as green beans. Conflicts mildly with the goals of the Opal Collocation.

That was roughly my calculus. There seemed to me to be enough incentive that it would be broadly appealing for most characters; and the ways in which it was not appealing would be rewarding IC. Isaera is a lot of fun to read about when she's rubbing her temples and reminding herself why she's knee deep in mud, and not immersed in a rose scented bubble bath somewhere. Marion is a lot of fun when she's smiling at orcs through her teeth, like ahahaYesWeAreFriendsYesOfCourseExcuseMeIMustGo. And Mor'Lag - well, Mor'Lag has some extremely complicated dimensions. But I reasoned that if you build a character who is caught up in ancestral shame and grievance, you want some chances as a player to revel in your character's negative circumstance, with the expectation there's some payoff down the line. It wasn't an accident that the first adventure was quite ogre-heavy. Mor'Lag is the character I felt I had the least grasp on, so I have her/them a lot of things to react to. And the explosion of catharsis in the final fight was fuelled by all the sullen woundedness that came before it, so... You know, more of that seems like a good story to me. Jakk'ari, on the other hand, just happens to be perfect for all this. Since his character is very much about diverse groups of people working together, almost anything that would make an interesting story inherently ticks some of his boxes. And being part of the Collocation pretty much ticks all of them, with heavy, enthusiastic underlines.

So that's where we're at, presently. The offer from Jaina begins with property in Ratchet with all the frustration and possibility that comes with that, as well as a new backdrop for me to describe. It's Ratchet because that makes the most sense within the setting's neutral possibilities, in the part of the world where you are. The adventure ideas I have planned for your party will take you far and wide (do not lose track of keys, and tongues, that you pick up on your adventures, by the way ;) ), but that is the place I decided Jaina would establish for her sponsorship. I'm not exactly planning on running a kingdom-building game here - the Queendom of New Alterac is an awesome ambition for a character, but not one that permits me to expose all the characters to all the stuff that their backstories provoke me to expose them to. But that doesn't mean that, for example, your group couldn't use their starting location in Ratchet for a temporary measure and then actually stake a claim somewhere else to build a proper guild stronghold, complete with dual mage and warlock towers and family accommodation and so on, and so forth.

With all that said, this is a handcar, not a train; and if the party decides we talked about it and thanks but no, then I'll roll with it and rejigger some things I had percolating because that's my job and what, you don't think I can dance, I can dance, watch me dance! If some of your characters say 100% Mama Jaina, send guild invite when ready and the others say nah fam imma dip, then I'll have to dance really hard, but I'll do my best to figure something out.

Or, if you feel like this is the kind of thing your character wouldn't decide on the spot (for example, if they want to talk to their family first), then I can set up those scenes, and do a little flashback stuff with everyone else while we're in this space between missions. If there's any questions about anything, now's a good time for it - either about system stuff, or story things that you want clarified, or anything else, inbetween chapters here is a great place to field 'em, so lay 'em on me. :)

[BananaPhone]

Ah, splendid. I shall print this off for tonights bed-time reading .

[WindStruck]

Overall, I think the guild is a good idea, but the location is what is not appealing.

It's definitely something Isaera would discuss with her family and would want to negotiate with Jaina.. as she was really just questioning if she should have gone out on this mission which brought them fame in the first place.

Also, we still have some loose ends to tie up with the surviving ogres and the demonic cult and dragons at large.

[JoyWonderLove]

Hello, and welcome!

If we are getting NPCs to help us out, I'm not sure who else we should be aiming for either.

People who are good couriers? Savvy merchants? More mercenaries? An old mage tutor as suggested? Or perhaps, a linguist?

Sounds like a great excuse to balance character bias with the basic necessity of fulfilling obligations! Like, three people love learning the arcane already, so it's weird if someone doesn't suggest it and at least two aren't all OH WELL IF YOU INSIST. Plaids is into diplomacy, so maybe we shoot for a diverse cast of NPCs (one from every reasonable group?). What else...

Marion is into redeeming her name, so maybe the odd high status NPC to cozy up to for vouch material?

It almost seems like it writes itself. Everything else is basics for running the guild.

Ah, splendid. I shall print this off for tonights bed-time reading .

Hey! Don't pretend you don't love novels. I read it in one; I like MrA's shooting for open communication and teamwork ethic. It's aces.

Overall, I think the guild is a good idea, but the location is what is not appealing.

Also, we still have some loose ends to tie up with the surviving ogres and the demonic cult and dragons at large.

What would be a good location IYO that also works for the groups investing? I don't know even remotely enough about Warcraft to answer btw, so literally more power to anyone that does.

[BananaPhone]

Hey! Don't pretend you don't love novels. I read it in one; I like MrA's shooting for open communication and teamwork ethic. It's aces.

MrA knows I'm just gently teasing .

[MrAbdiel]

I am relentlessly bullied by those I serve. ;_;


EDIT: <3

EDIT ALSO:

It's definitely something Isaera would discuss with her family and would want to negotiate with Jaina.. as she was really just questioning if she should have gone out on this mission which brought them fame in the first place.

Awesome. I've been looking forward to doing more with Isaera's family. :)

[Feathersnow]

For what it's worth, Mor'Lag has no better offers at this time and no one else besides the party. She probably would have tried to stick around for that reason alone, given the only sane alternative was joining the Horde.

[Plaids]

Glad to have you join JoyWonderLove. I am excited to see what you bring since M&M an WOW allow you to bring a WOW player character or a weird creature like a ghost dragon. As for npc helpers I think a translator for a language Jakk'ari knows he can't speak and a tailor for uniforms or flags would be suggested by Jakk'ari.

[JoyWonderLove]

Glad to have you join JoyWonderLove. I am excited to see what you bring since M&M an WOW allow you to bring a WOW player character or a weird creature like a ghost dragon. As for npc helpers I think a translator for a language Jakk'ari knows he can't speak and a tailor for uniforms or flags would be suggested by Jakk'ari.

Glad to be here and TY! I like diplomatic and "Light" approaches so you're two for two. Hopefully I can find a way to talk shop / start the odd unnecessary diplomatic incident that your skills are useful to even out!

But I made the most generic of generic ideas and kinda...dumped points into Abilities and called it a day. One of my excuses is that you seem to have healing as a thing, so I'm unsure if I should touch it overmuch. I'll probably poke the story teller for help eventually.

A translator and tailor are good practical calls, though! How do you all feel about maybe a garden or something to take advantage of the fact there's three herbalists? Or is no one really into flower picking on the side? I want to figure out use for my profession skill (enchanting). Also, on a completely unrelated note, we should totally get a bar / wine cellar going. For... reasons.

For what it's worth, Mor'Lag has no better offers at this time and no one else besides the party. She probably would have tried to stick around for that reason alone, given the only sane alternative was joining the Horde.

everyone I know how sympathic you feel but I have to insist please do NOT hug the Mor'Lag she is very sensitive to Light and unnecessary touch. if you want, you may throw these little nuggets of arcane knowledge nearby to encourage and sustain her. ty.

MrA knows I'm just gently teasing .

A likely story! Next you'll mention having a fun, enjoyable, intriguing name for our entire guild! One that helps unite and describe us not only immediately now, but also far into the future. But that's just crazy talk, isn't it, Banana Phone? (Please tell me you do that would be fantastic; no one else has suggested anything yet?)

If some of your characters say 100% Mama Jaina, send guild invite when ready

Oh haha it would be.....would be so silly if any of us were this obvious and on the nose, right? Especially if you join late after everyone has already shown how complex and multifaceted they are. That....that would just be embarrassing......

Spoiler

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why am I like this

If there's any questions about anything, now's a good time for it - either about system stuff, or story things that you want clarified, or anything else, inbetween chapters here is a great place to field 'em, so lay 'em on me. :)

I was on and off watching the story (I want to read it all, but the best way to never meta is simply not to know) and the last fight concerned me. I would have been a little less helpful than even Felix (at least he helped nudge others out of fear), soooo.....maybe the whole point was that magic is a thing? But still. What would even be the Damage score I would have needed to help in that fight? We have dragons flying around so it's worth thinking about for a frontliner.

Also, if I read the Opal Collo part right, it's roughly like those four (5 if you count Rifle Aragon) are the defacto leadership of the guild, whereas the random Argent Dawn agent is the checks-and-balance liaison that (if the intentions suggested appear kosher) goes between both the guild and Argent Dawn to unlock the necessary funds to get things done. So 'oh hey we want these funds to hire teachers for these adorable orphans right here' is probably spiffy and neat and let me go ask right away. But 'we want funds to make a puppy kicking machine - now with extra spikes!' is... probably not going beyond the Maybe pile, unless the agent can somehow be bribed off. But then the Argent Dawn organisation itself can turn around and go "why would you okay that ever". Is this mostly right, or am I way off?

How many base points do we start with, and how 'expensive' is an NPC?

Feeling vaguely jittery for not knowing the M&M system yet and lack of Warcraft knowledge and not wanting to completely overplay the flaws (it's more tempting than it should be...), so don't be shocked if I rely on a wiki and Well Informed to coast by.

[BananaPhone]

Mr A, I'm going to spend 2 of Marions 6 remaining pp's on Benefit (Wealth), making her "Independently Wealthy", and will provide an explanation for as such within the coming posts.

Is that alright?

(remember that medieval bugspray she made? She's going to mass produce it and use Ratchet's shipping connections to sell it through Theramore and Strangelthorn)

[MrAbdiel]

Haha, sure :) Spend the points now, but hold off on the explosive success of the product until we're progressed. If Marion's got anything to say to Lady Proudmoore, she can; otherwise, I can move the scene on towards any number of "intermission" scenes. Isaera and her family, for example; and any short scenes anyone else wants to do. Anyone without an idea gets a flashback :)

[BananaPhone]

Oh she does have things to say :).

[Feathersnow]

everyone I know how sympathic you feel but I have to insist please do NOT hug the Mor'Lag she is very sensitive to Light and unnecessary touch. if you want, you may throw these little nuggets of arcane knowledge nearby to encourage and sustain her. ty.

Lol.


As for guild names:

I am amazingly bad at naming things. My character is literally named "More Lag" because she is multiboxing and it's affecting the latency on her connection. I also once had such memorable characters as "Guy" the Gunslinger.

[MrAbdiel]

Lol.


As for guild names:

I am amazingly bad at naming things. My character is literally named "More Lag" because she is multiboxing and it's affecting the latency on her connection. I also once had such memorable characters as "Guy" the Gunslinger.

You have been banned for Multiboxing. >_<

Oh she does have things to say :).

I look forward to it! :D

Glad to have you join JoyWonderLove. I am excited to see what you bring since M&M an WOW allow you to bring a WOW player character or a weird creature like a ghost dragon. As for npc helpers I think a translator for a language Jakk'ari knows he can't speak and a tailor for uniforms or flags would be suggested by Jakk'ari.

These might work - having a translator/cosmopolitan type on staff wouldn't go astray. Tailoring stuff you can probably just have made to order, though!

...But I made the most generic of generic ideas and kinda...dumped points into Abilities and called it a day. One of my excuses is that you seem to have healing as a thing, so I'm unsure if I should touch it overmuch. I'll probably poke the story teller for help eventually.

A translator and tailor are good practical calls, though! How do you all feel about maybe a garden or something to take advantage of the fact there's three herbalists? Or is no one really into flower picking on the side? I want to figure out use for my profession skill (enchanting). Also, on a completely unrelated note, we should totally get a bar / wine cellar going. For... reasons...

...I was on and off watching the story (I want to read it all, but the best way to never meta is simply not to know) and the last fight concerned me. I would have been a little less helpful than even Felix (at least he helped nudge others out of fear), soooo.....maybe the whole point was that magic is a thing? But still. What would even be the Damage score I would have needed to help in that fight? We have dragons flying around so it's worth thinking about for a frontliner.

Also, if I read the Opal Collo part right, it's roughly like those four (5 if you count Rifle Aragon) are the defacto leadership of the guild, whereas the random Argent Dawn agent is the checks-and-balance liaison that (if the intentions suggested appear kosher) goes between both the guild and Argent Dawn to unlock the necessary funds to get things done. So 'oh hey we want these funds to hire teachers for these adorable orphans right here' is probably spiffy and neat and let me go ask right away. But 'we want funds to make a puppy kicking machine - now with extra spikes!' is... probably not going beyond the Maybe pile, unless the agent can somehow be bribed off. But then the Argent Dawn organisation itself can turn around and go "why would you okay that ever". Is this mostly right, or am I way off?

How many base points do we start with, and how 'expensive' is an NPC?

Feeling vaguely jittery for not knowing the M&M system yet and lack of Warcraft knowledge and not wanting to completely overplay the flaws (it's more tempting than it should be...), so don't be shocked if I rely on a wiki and Well Informed to coast by.

1. Nothing wrong with a bruiser. Felix was suboptimal compared to the PCs because he was a mook! Your character is gonna do just fine; and if she underperforms to your expectations, I'm pretty loosey goosey about respeccing to try to capture your intention, as long as that's not done over and over! Happy to receive poking on the subject, though.

2. Actually, there's three Alchemists! Which, in Warcraft conceit, is an entirely separate discipline to Herbalism, as far from it as Cooking is from Farming. But Jakk'ari is a herbalist! And if there was a garden, Jakk'ari would have the skill to tend it, while Mor'Lag, Isaera and Zachary benefitted.

3. The best way to do Enchanting is to use the "Artificer" Advantage in conjunction with Expertise: Magic to make magical gizmos that we're just gonna say are enchantments! It's downtime investment turned into one-shot magic items, basically.

4. To peak behind the narrative curtain about the last fight, it was deliberately over levelled for the PC's because I had the secret knowledge that they didn't - namely, that Mor'Lag's latent magical talent was going to kick in and give her the right tool for the job. Windstruck made a comment at the time about how unbalanced it seemed like it was going to be and how long it was going to take, but I didn't want to telegraph Mor'Lag's moment of glory. Windstruck was right - even one of those goons, if dropped in the middle of the party, would probably splatter them, or atleast force casualties. But there's all kinds of counterbalancing facts, all the statuses and slows and things the party used, that make things more level. Anyway, my point is that a creature like those lesser infernals is a boss encounter. Three of them is too much for a party of PL4 heroes - unless they're held to reality by a highly breakable summon effect, and one of your party members can dispel it. Usually the numbers are not so crazy! See the Raptor fight, earlier in the story, for more reasonable fight numbers. And the dragons were basically a cutscene - if the party had decided "we're gonna fight 'em" then it would have got very badly very quickly, but I think I did a good job of signally "this is not a winnable fight!"

5. The six "real" members of the guild will be all the PC's. Yours is going to have the additional "privilege" of being sword to report to the Argent Dawn if they become crazy alliance partisans or stoners sitting around spending the grant money on peacebloom bongs. And the additional burden of being an 'outsider' to the group; but they're only one adventure acquainted with each other, so you're not so far behind there. The regular stipend (an abstract amount of "pretty good" that affords most moderate expenses and might afford a number of extravagant ones by request to me) will keep getting paid to the guild as long as you keep sending back reasonably positive reports. The AD doesn't intend to meticulously check expenses - they trust the guild to do that for themselves, and they trust you to make sure it's not all being blown on puppy kicking.

6. I haven't decided on base points yet! Not a huge amount. And the NPCs aren't part of that budget when it shows up, they're just offered to you by me, and you can take (X) number of them, where X = a number I haven't decided yet but probably around four.

7. Wiki is alright! But remember that this is "Vanilla WoW", which is to say the lore is contemporary with the original release of the game, and all the expansion stuff hasn't happened yet and may not happen at all! There's already been some little bits of lore thrown around that's technically anachronistic - there's been a few mentions of Vrykul (the jotun-esque race which is the progenitor species for humans), about whom at this time next to nothing is known; and their relationship to humans is certainly unknown. But it didn't disrupt anything, so it's all good!

Edit: Oh, and also

Overall, I think the guild is a good idea, but the location is what is not appealing.

It's definitely something Isaera would discuss with her family and would want to negotiate with Jaina.. as she was really just questioning if she should have gone out on this mission which brought them fame in the first place.

Also, we still have some loose ends to tie up with the surviving ogres and the demonic cult and dragons at large.

I've set up that family scene, taking my normal liberties with naming your family members and populating them with flaws and familiar strife. As always, let me know if that isn't working for you, and we can make it feel right; but I'm inclined to fill in those blank spaces with lore inspired by your character as I understand them!

The cult and dragons are somethings your crew could afford to talk about at a debrief and drink maybe after everyone's gotten a night's sleep!

[WindStruck]

Oh dear... do I need to make some rolls about her siblings' eyes?

[MrAbdiel]

No roll necessary! You immediately conclude it’s the result of mana-tapping fel crystals, just as Balandar explained to you - a practise that prince Kael’Thas’s magisters are spreading as a solution to the mana crisis in the short term, but which, despite no strong evidence of ill effect, is thought unwholesome by traditionalists.

[WindStruck]

Hm. Well it would seem it DOES have some side effects....

I think my/Isaera's hunch may have been right! And I didn't even peek at that last expertise spoiler, promise.

[BananaPhone]

I have spent Marions 8 CP. 1 point was spent on an Alt Power as proposed earlier in the thread, the rest are:

2 advantages (wealth) (2) (Yes....)
Technology +2 (1)
Expertise (Business) +6 (3)
Persuasion +2 (1)

While Marion's preferences have not been stated in explicit and definitive detail, it seems likely that her prospects for flirtation are limited by a demographic preponderance of neighbours who are three and a half feet tall, and green as green beans.

Yes, this is a medieval fantasy world where war and hardship are common place and all the major races took a big population hit that requires "replenishment". Marions preferences are male and human . Possibly elven. But as the scion of an aristocratic family, breeding and lineage are important to her. However, in the case of a particularly handsome/intelligent/brave suitor she is willing to overlook those if he is willing to accept not acquiring any of her titles and taking her last name.

[MrAbdiel]

Why do I like writing stressful elf refugee family scenes so much?

Is this a genre I can pioneer?

[BananaPhone]

The fantasy genre is ripe with it.

Honestly, a race with longevity into millennia, heightened senses and reflexes, average 100 IQ with centuries of garnered expertise in a variety of industries, arts and war, should be one of the most formidable civilisations out there. But for some reason 9/10 writers make them out to be time-wasting wimps that are usually on their way out.

Seriously, imagine Western civilisation today with 70% of its population being people from 500-50 years ago still being around and still being in their physical prime. Picture them still dominating and manning (no pun intended) the academic, political, educational, cultural and entertainment institutions.