World of Warcraft - Interbellum (OOC Thread)

[MrAbdiel]

Rah! There, I posted the results of the ritual!

Although a note on rituals - as I suspect in time that there will be more than one of you who is calling upon them in play! Strictly speaking, this ritual as a 6PP ritual requires 24 hours of careful research and paging through grimoires and the guys of fel-tainted seagulls to design; and another hour to execute the casting itself. I'm going to wave the casting time for this particular ritual because just like with the crafting abilities, I'm playing fast and loose with them in this Prologue adventure. In subsequent chapters, players will need to 'Jury-Rig' rituals, gadgets and artifact/potions with the spending of a Victory Point if they want to be able to create or cast them in a matter of turns instead of hours.

I took a while to parse through all the adders on the ritual to make sure I understood them, because this is my training to run the system like I know what I'm doing instead of fumbling around right now. But a couple of the negative modifiers I might object to, under normal circumstances. Unreliable (5 uses) isn't really much of a limitation on a ritual you're casting to track an enemy in one scene; it's more appropriate for something you might actually have to use five times in a short span. And Sense-Dependant, from what I read on the SRD, is not so much "it depends on me having this sense" but "it depends on the enemy perceiving the ability with this sense"; like a medusa petrifying stare. As it stands, the ritual requires the demon you are looking for to also be sensing the use of the power with its own demon sense... I think.

That said, I see what you were going for, and jiggling around the cost-mitigators wasn't going to radically change the outcome. But as I grasp the rules better and better I'm gonna become progressively more stingy! So as the lion says, be prepared.

For now, the ritual succeeded, and Marion has cast her gaze into the Twisting Nether to discover some critical information that might inform the party's decision making. :)

[Feathersnow]

To break it down-

1)Kal'dorei and Quel'Dorei are visibly different due to the fact all Elves are warped physically by the nature of magic they use to feed their metabolic need for mana. You are highly unlikely to pass as a member of a different kind of Elf, just as Mor'Lag can't easily pass as a member of a different clan without the right tattoos and accent.

2)Darnassus is a theocracy, not a monarchy. There is no king, so claiming you are he would reveal your ignorance, just as a bi-fold ogre would be expected to know lots about local politics Mor'Lag doesnt.

3)You are female, and thus can't be any sort of king, at least under Mor'Lag's understanding of gender as purely a matter of physiology. Equally, a bi-fold as old as Mor'Lag would be so rare that people would immediately notice them.

3)Kal'Dorei are famously matriarchal and live in trees. A harem in a palace is farcical for a hypothetical king of their capital. Likewise, you reveal your ignorance of Ogre culture.

In conclusion, Ogres are terse and often ignorant, not necessarily stupid. Each pronouncement might have layers of meaning.

[WindStruck]

Well unfortunately, in Mor'Lag's dull haste to be offended, she completely missed the point about what Isaera was asking of her, and turned it into the strawiest strawman ever.

First off, Isaera was not asking that Mor'Lag impersonate any royalty, or any position of power.

Second, and more important: Isaera was asking if she could just claim to be from another tribe. As in, not the one they were visiting. You'd think that it would be pretty tricky to pull that off. Obviously. Her idea was to just make up some distant clan that the one nearby would likely know very little, if anything, about.

Or lastly, it would have been simple to just.. you know.. not say you were disowned and clanless. It would be, for example, as if Isaera had committed some heinous crime and was a fugitive in Quel'thalas. Just keep quiet about it, and no one has to know.

But in any case, I don't want to debate it further IC and.. it's become a rather moot point now, regardless.

[Feathersnow]

I'm sorry. It's more... Mor'Lag is pretty sure they would know instantly something was seriously wrong with her, and her being a clanless outcast is probably the least horrible assumption they might come up with.

If nothing else- why doesn't she have the right tattoos and why is would a Bif-fold born before the Second War be going around without a passel of servants? Back when her kind were super rare, they were basically royalty, and one of them showing up as a mercenary working for humans is... suspicious.

But... I admit Lag may have over reacted. I am trying characterization and I regret if I offended you OoC.

[WindStruck]

Well, again, I think you could be making assumptions about one clan's culture and another's. If you, for example, made up a clan, you could cater its customs to whatever suited your needs. That said, having not heard about another clan would probably draw suspicion indeed...

Though I suppose it would be funny if everyone else posed as Mor'lag's servants!

[MrAbdiel]

Happily, I'm pretty sure no one is OOC annoyed as much as being careful to make sure their character isn't being mistaken for saying something outright stupid, since no one particularly wants that! :)

For ogres, well, the truth is just as weird as one might hope. The biggest thing is the ogre retcon: back in WC1, ogres were uniform big dumb dumbs the orcs used as herded shock troops. In WC2, they became elite infantry who were capable of a brutal shamanic magic, despite being dim witted. But in WC3 and then WOW, with the exponential expansion of the lore's depth, the writers had to do some backwards work about who the ogres are especially by the Warlords of Draenor expansion in which the deep history of the Orc/Ogre homeworld was revealed. By then, ogres became both the historical power empire over the orcs, and also their spiritual predecessors having thrown off the monstrous hegemony of the gronn before them.

So basically it was retroactively decided that it was more interesting for ogres to be a complete species with their own rituals and culture and history, but also there's a bunch of embedded situations and places where ogres are burping farting dumb dumbs and you infiltrate their camp and kill their leader with a paper mache mask and a bag full of ham hocks.

So there's a lot of negative space I am happy to work with as a GM here. Although Isaera isn't actually saying ogres are stupid and would be fooled by a dumb ruse, there's definitely a lot of dumb ogres who would be easily fooled by a dumb ruse (which I tend to explain by the way Gul'Dan's warlocks prematurely aged a bunch of orcs and ogres for the war effort [which is canon], creating the swathes of such creatures whose minds are underdeveloped like many ogres and orc peons [which is my extrapolation]). Even if one doesn't count on such things, because the nature of the setting is one that encourages farcical hijinks, you might get pretty far just on a Bavarian Fire Drill alone.

But all it would take is one more attentive and insightful ogre to see through an infiltration attempt, as is the case with all such plans, so you know. There's a tradeoff of dangers in such a scenario, and it makes sense that Marion and Isaera would see the risk as manageable while Jakk'ari and Mor'Lag fear it to be likely to fail. As in many cases, the dice would have the final word.

As your GM and candidate running for GM of the Year (one day I will have your crown, Matt Mercer), I'll interpret whatever plan you come up with in the most reasonable fashion to make it executable without lowballing your opponent's abilities.

If the group is reasonably agreeable concerning "Zachary's" plan and my transparent maneuverer to exit him from the immediate narrative, I can progress the scene to the approach of Brackenwall. Don't let me push you around, though; you are the heroes, and I, a barefoot teller of tales.

[MrAbdiel]

Also, since this is the prologue where no one knows each other, now is a great time for people to misunderstand each other, to make assumptions that are proved wrong, and to generally RP out the grinding gears that precedes a more hard-won cooperation. I dig it.

[WindStruck]

Honestly, Zachary's plan does sound really good, seeing as it seemed like a bad idea to go anywhere near that other clan of ogres...

[BananaPhone]

Maybe my social antennae is just dim, but I couldn't pick up any 'argument' IC between the elf and the ogre. I figured the ogre just offered an idea that wouldn't work and that was that lol.

In either case, Zachs idea seems fine, as we'll go negotiate with the Horde while he scouts the ogres who we will also 'negotiate' with later.

[Feathersnow]

More the Ogre didn't communicate effectively when trying to pre-emptively nix any plan based on appealing to commonality between Ogres.

Edit: I see the problem. Mor'Lag was talking about going to the Ogres. They will treat her no better than any of you.

The Horde is completely different and has totally different rules and expectations. That you even think of them as still related after decades and the Hirde shaming themselves so thoroughly wouldn't occur to Mor'Lag.

[MrAbdiel]

More the Ogre didn't communicate effectively when trying to pre-emptively nix any plan based on appealing to commonality between Ogres.

Mor'Lag's strength isn't self expression, sadly. And the depth of Mor'Lag's uniquely ogrish shame burden is something the other characters may have to gradually come to grasp, just as Mor'Lag herselves learns to overcome it, perhaps.

"Jakk'ari, please inform Isaera and I as to the decorum and hospitality ceremonies that would ingratiate us to our...hosts when we make contact with Brackenwall?"

Excellent. Though now we're ramping off into murky background, it should be fun. Plaids, feel free to fabricate whatever diplomatic strictures within reason you'll have Jakk'ari offer. You've already established the peacebloom offering; anything beyond that is up to you, and may be as accurate or not as you prefer.

Possibilities include:

Forsaken are used to being stared at, but try not to overdo it. - True
Orcs pride themselves on ferocity in battle but most of them, like you, want to get home at the end of the day to their families. - True enough
Tauren take avoiding eye contact as a sign of deception. - Made up by me but cool enough to be true
Even if you smell something weird cooking, it's not people - the Darkspear trolls gave up eating humanoids as part of their pact with the horde. - Big true
Orcs are as distrustful of horses as humans are of wolves. - Funnily enough, true
They're more scared of you than you are of them. - Probably false.

Also, as a little reminder:

Jakk'ari: Troll, Kalimag, Common.
Mor'Lag: Ogre, Common, Orcish.
Isaera: Common, Thalassian.
Marion: Common, Demonic.
Zachary: Common, Orcish.

Jakk'ari doesn't belong to the Horde so I didn't assume he'd have orcish, though it may be on his list of ambitions to learn for his diplomacy ongoing. Mor'Lag speaks orcish, but Jakk'ari gets by fine with Troll (plenty of Darkspear diplomats within the Horde) and Kalimag (plenty of shaman, too).

EDIT: Also Marion, I dig the new art. Denise Richards as warlock works good!

[BananaPhone]

Orcs pride themselves on ferocity in battle but most of them, like you, want to get home at the end of the day to their families. - True enough

I dunno about that one. Orcs seem to be pretty Klingon-ish in that they love the idea of dying in battle. There have been human cultures in our real world (eg. Spartans) who held this up as the pinnacle of achievement as well. They seem to be very much the Honor Culture type. (then again, in the 'medieval fantasy' setting, all races would be this to an extent)

EDIT: Also Marion, I dig the new art. Denise Richards as warlock works good!

I honestly didn't make that connection lol. I saw the art piece, it had the collar, nice features, different colored eyes (more greyish), looked younger (Marion is 19) etc

[MrAbdiel]

I dunno about that one. Orcs seem to be pretty Klingon-ish in that they love the idea of dying in battle. There have been human cultures in our real world (eg. Spartans) who held this up as the pinnacle of achievement as well. They seem to be very much the Honor Culture type. (then again, in the 'medieval fantasy' setting, all races would be this to an extent)

They're definately an honor/shame culture at their core. But the horde, and especially the orcs, have been struggling with the transition into a culture that honors valor but does not crave war and death. It's not easy, since they used to be part of a race-wide demon fueled death cult; but much of Thrall's story in making the new Horde after the orcish lethary can be summarized as "my people once were warriors, and we must be warriors still in some part, but not like that." And while orcs are huge powerful barbarian types, it's worth noting that most orcs aren't warriors, even if they have a more pugilistic culture. Like most races, the warrior class is a layer up on the totem pole above farmers, craftsmen, and your workaday Joe ZugZug. Not that anyone on Azeroth could be reasonably chided for not going out of their way to carefully nuance their vision of orcs, of course. Most humans primary experience of orcs is hearing that they just burned down the neighbouring village; but there's enough substance to Warcraft orcs that you can have very rewarding 'We're not so different' stories.

EDIT: Even as a lifelong alliance paladin, possibly by favorite thing about the setting is the Horde/Alliance contrasts. Alliance races are typically noble, inspiring cultures that are trying not to degenerate into something lesser; Horde races are typically primitive, even stone age cultures grabbing on to each other and trying to drag themselves into an authentically owned sense of civilization. Orcs from bloodthirsty savages to shamanic honor culture; trolls from head-shrinking cannibal isolationists into a state culturally openness even if it means sacrificing less palatable traditions; Tauren from nomadic herdsmen to having their first fixed city and worked crops. Everyone hated BfA but me, lol.

"The road to the dark portal was long, and wide, and paved with the bones of the innocent. We called it the Path of Glory."

[BananaPhone]

They're definately an honor/shame culture at their core. But the horde, and especially the orcs, have been struggling with the transition into a culture that honors valor but does not crave war and death. It's not easy, since they used to be part of a race-wide demon fueled death cult; but much of Thrall's story in making the new Horde after the orcish lethary can be summarized as "my people once were warriors, and we must be warriors still in some part, but not like that." And while orcs are huge powerful barbarian types, it's worth noting that most orcs aren't warriors, even if they have a more pugilistic culture. Like most races, the warrior class is a layer up on the totem pole above farmers, craftsmen, and your workaday Joe ZugZug. Not that anyone on Azeroth could be reasonably chided for not going out of their way to carefully nuance their vision of orcs, of course. Most humans primary experience of orcs is hearing that they just burned down the neighbouring village; but there's enough substance to Warcraft orcs that you can have very rewarding 'We're not so different' stories.

Sure, but I don't think we'll be dealing with Joe ZugZug tending his crops or Bobby the Baker at Brackenwall village. A frontier outpost like that will mostly be the "death before dishonour!" boggle-eyed lunatic types. Imo anyway, you're the GM so it's your call .

"The road to the dark portal was long, and wide, and paved with the bones of the innocent. We called it the Path of Glory."

Hmm, what's this?

*clicks*

Battle for Azeroth?!



Also:

Forever desperate to play WFRP2e, as a Bretonnian Knight.

I had a vampire knight I've wanted to play for a while too .

[MrAbdiel]

Hmm, what's this?

*clicks*

Battle for Azeroth?!

Don’t indulge the meme! BFA was great at its best parts and fine in its worst! Do not allow the Sylvannas stans inside your mind!

Also, hey, if you can find a GM to run 2 knights 1 tale, I’m in.

[BananaPhone]

Haha, as far as I'm concerned the end of World of Warcraft vanilla is the 'end' of the current Warcraft canon. I loved the setting as this dark, quasi-gothic fantasy setting. World of Warcraft was great fun, but TBC onwards just got sillier/crazier for me, personally, in a way that didn't sit well or fit with what I liked about the setting.

In general, for me though, this basically sums up my sentiment towards 90% of pop culture:

Spoiler

Show

Also, hey, if you can find a GM to run 2 knights 1 tale, I’m in.

Very coy name :P haha. It'd take a new advertisement thread and a larger starting exp pool (something like 3,500) and finding a GM to do such a thing would be a challenge, imo.

[Plaids]

I like the idea of going to Brackenwall first to get the lay of the land and then going to the ogre village. In character there is enough reason to believe someone affiliated with the horde is sympathetic to the party and giving information of a demonic presence would be appreciated given the ring the party has. We just need to be careful to not incriminate ourselves by revealing a fell wielder is in the party.

@Windstruck. Sorry if you felt like you got dogpiled by the party. The goal should be for everyone to have fun.
I hastily interpreted the conversation between Isaera and Mor'Lag as the following.

Isaera: "We need to infiltrate the ogre village. Mor'Lag you are an ogre they will trust you. Now all we need is a big conical for you to wear and everyone else to hide in to trick those idiots."
Mor'Lag: "Why do you assume that will work? Just because I'm an ogre. You have upset me."

I was making assumptions based on the Warcraft lore trend I know off which is that generally the more stereotypically monstrous races like orcs and minotaurs are made more sympathetic. Given details such as orcs were enslaved by Gul'dan, the tauren are peaceful nature lovers, and Thrall has similarities with the biblical Moses at least in the Warcraft movie and Warcraft 3 by being washed down a river then presumably adopted and leading his people on a journey in the wild. respectively. So I was assuming the elf was being rude to the ogre in the situation.

[MrAbdiel]

But most importantly never call for a mak'gora only challenges from a leader respected by orcs will be given the privilege.

This is good advice, but now you’ve just planted the idea in their heads!

[WindStruck]

Isaera: "We need to infiltrate the ogre village. Mor'Lag you are an ogre they will trust you. Now all we need is a big conical for you to wear and everyone else to hide in to trick those idiots."
Mor'Lag: "Why do you assume that will work? Just because I'm an ogre. You have upset me."

Yeah, I'd say the interpretation was very simplified and inaccurate. And no, I wasn't really assuming it would work, either IC or OOC.

Anyway! I'm glad things are moving along to a different subject now? I don't really have any particular vision of orcs set in my mind that disagrees with MrAbdiel.

[MrAbdiel]

Indeedly we are! Tonight, I go to sleep. But tomorrow! Tomorrow, friends, you visit the Horde.

[BananaPhone]

I think the GM was posting next, yes?

[MrAbdiel]

Indeed, I have posted! Welcome to scenic Brackenwall village. You may with to communicate to the other characters what your plans are, but as the post will tell you, the place is reasonably open for you to explore despite some faction suspicions.

[WindStruck]

Don't think I'm entirely against the idea of spending the night there.

Though I'm sure Isaera herself would be.. a bit weary. Still an excellent point is brought up about how much camping does actually suck.

And it does seem like we should try and see the elders or whoever and get our mission done first, but I wouldn't mind exploring around a bit later.

Also regarding dream. I suppose if you want, I could continue with Isaera's dreams again, tonight.

[MrAbdiel]

I am 100% behind more dream stuff. How else will we flesh our your father’s designs to marry you off to Prince Kael’thas?

[Plaids]

(1d20+8)[13] Here is the roll for persuading the guards at the front gate. It should be good.

Regardless Jakk'ari will be heading to the town hall to talk to the village chief preferably with the demonic ring as evidence to his support his claims of demonic presence.

One day I'll make a M&M character who doesn't break the power limit.
Also an explanation for how the magic/special moves work and are budgeted would be appreciated. I just picked powers fitting my character concept according to the official M&M3E book.

[WindStruck]

Again, these are really good!

I'll have Isaera say a little something. But perhaps just a little introduction. Don't want to dominate the conversation (just yet).

[Feathersnow]

(1d20+6)[14] Perception
(1d20+6)[22] insight

[MrAbdiel]

Again, these are really good!

I'll have Isaera say a little something. But perhaps just a little introduction. Don't want to dominate the conversation (just yet).

:)

Also, don't worry; there will be ample opportunities to be conversational soon!

[MrAbdiel]

Jakk'ari is receiving our first VP temptation! I'm not doing it strictly by the book here, so to explain myself:

Victory Points are the meta resource in M&M3e that allow you to push past your normal limits. They're great, and you should want them; and you are awarded them in play both for accomplishing things that I deem particularly cool, and also for being inconvenienced in some way by one of your character's Complications.

I'm deviating from the standard rules by which I would activate your complication, explain how it inconveniences you, and give you the VP. I find it much more interesting (and less invasive somehow) to offer you the VP if you choose to indulge your Complication at the inconvenient time I offer the temptation. You're free to decline if you want; but in most cases, it's more fun and characterful to go with it and pocket the VP, the manifold uses for which are here if you'd like a reminder of how great they are. Unlisted there is the fact that you can use a VP to rapidly make a gadget or ritual in a matter of turns that would normally require many hours of research and craft.

Give in to your mortal weaknesses. Give iiiin~

[WindStruck]

And here I am, wondering what to put those CP in. Was considering more skills. Maybe treatment, picked up from the medics would be nice. Or.. perhaps Isaera could bother trying to learn some new languages? Maybe, maybe...