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2021-10-05, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
- Location
- Disunited Kingdom
- Gender
Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
I mean the Durkon and Minrah managed to totally disappear from Team Evil's perspective as far as we know. I think maybe we can guess that Team Evil will have to retreat from their current cave exploration. Then they will have to think. That might be enough of a clue for clever boys like Redcloak and Xykon to investigate further and discover and bypass the traps.
There could also be upsides. Maybe Xykon will demand that Redcloak tell the story of the meeting with Durkon again to see if he can spot clues. That might cause strife between them.
I can't see them just going back to doing things the way they were.Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick
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2021-10-05, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Not Xykon, but Redcloak is already on their trail.
Last edited by Precure; 2021-10-05 at 12:47 PM.
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2021-10-05, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- massachusetts
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Team Evil lost the Order's trail and Xykon just picked a random door. They don't have a particular reason to think that the Order hid in the dungeon behind a teleport trap rather than some other way.
Of course Redcloak could figure that out just because this forces him to stop and restrategize. But he was already close to doing that anyways, since he was getting close to noticing the Mitd's sabotage.
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2021-10-05, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
And the worg has told them about the meld into stone trick as well. Enough plausible scenarios so that there is not necessarily a reason to really look for the actual traps that separate the real dungeon from the fake ones.
This space for rent.
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2021-10-05, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Monsters appeared in a dungeon they have very good reason to expect to be empty and no apparent explanation.
We know the answer to that particular puzzle is the MitD was painting extra X's, but Redcloak? He has absolutely no clue what the explanation is. This is going to prompt him to do investigate a lot of different things and stop accepting things at face value.
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2021-10-05, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Greyview: Smelling a rat I am. A very dead rat, here by the scorch mark on the floor. In a dungeon where the rats are not found. Wondering, I am, where the rat came from, and where it has gone?
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2021-10-05, 09:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
They were going to start rethinking their approach eventually (when they ran out of unmarked doors and realized what MitD was doing.) Maybe the Order's appearance sped that up slightly, but that's actually a good thing, given that they've been carting XP and treasure away from each sojourn quite literally by the armload.
As for the unknown defenses on the Gate - they've already foreshadowed that the teleport trap is bidirectional so it can keep something in, presumably something quite nasty. No doubt that entity, whatever it is, is this Gate's Final Boss Trump Card - similar to Soon's Ghost Martyr effect, Lirian's Guardian Virus, and Girard's Microcosm Runes.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-10-05, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
High level adventurers disappearing is also something that they can just do. Be it wind walk, teleport, rope trick, etc, high level parties have a plethora of disappearing acts they can pull off.
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2021-10-09, 01:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
And now I think of it, they don’t know that the Order can’t teleport. The only time they saw V was during the splices and they teleported away(albeit the MitD did that, but Xykon doesn’t know that). Plus even if they knew V can’t teleport, Durkon can still Plane Shift them out. Heck, if Minrah cast Thor’s Might on her own she might be able to help with that.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2021-10-09, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Doesn't the location itself put limitations on things like that?
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2021-10-09, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Beverly, MA, USA
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
We don't know. Many people have plausibly suggested that multidimensional stone prevents spells like Teleport and Plane Shift from working, but then again, Serini seems to have used Dimension Door or a similar spell to exit her lair and go after the Order, so unless she has a way to circumvent the multidimensional stone's properties, it doesn't seem to block all such travel.
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2021-10-09, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
- Location
- Disunited Kingdom
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
I suspect there are a few gaps intentionally placed and that Serini closely guards the details of these gaps. She probably has never written them down. I don't know whether this was an intentional lesson learnt because of her dealings with Xykon, or that she just never had any need.
Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick
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2021-10-09, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- massachusetts
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
It seems like the teleport trap itself disproves the idea of multidimensional stone blocking teleport.
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2021-10-09, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
- Location
- Disunited Kingdom
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick
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2021-10-09, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
I've been calling it teleport, but I'm not sure it's the right word. Can we pin down the effect more?
Visually, it seems more like rewiring space so that rather than the passageway going from point A to point B, it goes to point C instead. It's more like... a permanent gate that can be toggled on and off with the trap mechanism?Last edited by Hurkyl; 2021-10-09 at 12:26 PM.
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2021-10-09, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Multidimensional stone was explained as existing on both the material and the ethereal planes to explain why Xykon couldn't ghostform through it to find the gate. Teleport doesn't leave the material plane and neither does dimension door.
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2021-10-09, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
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2021-10-09, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
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2021-10-09, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-10-09, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
One interesting thing about this whole situation though: If this were another edition then blocking ethereal travel would mean that the souls of the dead couldn't make their journey to the outer planes and would be trapped inside. That tomb would be haunted as all get out as a result. Until Pharasma showed up personally to smash it to bits for doing so, that is.
Last edited by RatElemental; 2021-10-09 at 12:49 PM.
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2021-10-10, 03:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Re: trapped souls - I dunno, maybe they could just leave the way Team Evil did? Actually not sure how the dungeon prevents the monsters inside from just doing that already.
Re: multidimensional stone - preventing teleportation on the way in seems like a useful defense, though the easiest way is to simply make sure someone can't use divinations to pinpoint the location of the Gate and then 'port in to there. Still, blocking the Ethereal isn't sufficient for blocking teleportation; it's why Lauren could Psionic Dimension Door out of V's Resilient Sphere and Forcecage. Still, we don't know precisely how Serini got from her hideout to the dungeon; perhaps there are other ways into it? Maybe we'll see later.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2021-10-10, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
- Location
- Curitiba, Brazil
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
I don't expect the seal to actually be in Kragoor's Gate. Or perhaps what we are seeing is not necessarily Kragoor's Gate anyway.
Serini is putting a lot of effort into making a good show that the Gate is a crucial location that she will defend at all costs.
But a careful reading of strips 276 and 277 reminds us that the rifts themselves were found in locations not of their choosing and which they all presumably agreed to hide to the best of their abilities.
277 also tells us that Serini built "a tomb for Kraagor (...) with the nastiest beasts in the world, to reflect his belief in the power of physical might" while the other four surviving members of the Order of the Scribble presumably built the gates named after themselves to protect individual sealed rifts of their choice. Technically only Dorukan's and Girard's gates are directly referenced; Lirian's and Soon's are implied.
From more recent strips such as 1227 and 1228 we also know that she changed her plans when Xykon attacked her and that she has been well informed of what happened to the other gates. Oh, and also that she remains fond of misdirection tactics - she is, after all, an epic-level Rogue. Also, she is fully aware of Xykon and even knows that he has her diary.
While Xykon and Redcloak seem to have met some formidable opposition in this dungeon, what we actually saw is much more misdirection-oriented. A Beholder is impressive on its own way, but I would hardly describe Mimics and Piercers as some of the most powerful monsters around.
Even Roy has been saying recently that there must be more to the defenses of this final rift than what we saw this far. There is also the apparent discrepance of function between the multiple dungeon entries. Strip 1237 implies that most of them are redundant, but it is odd that Redcloak and Xykon would not have noticed that.
I think that Serini is testing the Order's character and behavior instead of truly attempting to stop it. She failed to stop Xykon on her own and she values sincere, dedicated friendships. My money is that she has been using some form of magical effect to teleport Team Evil to random parts of Kragoor's beast-filled tomb all this time, while she is now taking the measure of the Order of the Stick in order to decide how much to trust them.
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2021-10-10, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
I honestly think the Gate is really here. I don't think Rich would have explicitly lampshaded the possibility of a fake-out if he were planning to actually do one.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-10-10, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- massachusetts
- Gender
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2021-10-10, 10:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-10-11, 03:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
I suppose Serini may not have literally had a page where she wrote down the (coded) locations with exact coordinates. Information about the general location might be enough to narrow it down. I do wonder how Serini specifically knew that Soon's Gate was literally in the throne room, though, or at least how Team Evil figured that out - perhaps the building itself was built before the Scribblers broke up, and Soon just founded the Guard?
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-10-11, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
Team Evil figured it out, not from the diary, but by overhearing Hinjo say so. So her diary probably didn't say "it's in the throne room" (especially since there wouldn't have been a throne room until after they broke up.)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2021-10-11, 11:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: Could the Order already have broken the gate's defences?
I see! So it didn’t literally have the precise coordinates for each specific Gate, and just the general area. That’s a bit less stupid, yeah.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.