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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    Why, afraid you'll say something negative?

    More to the point, it's less about "positive talk only" and more about being better able to convince someone to try something new by pointing out how the new thing can be fun, not by trying to convince them they're actually not having fun right now.
    Yeah, exactly. Yucking someone's yum usually just puts them in a defensive stance and isn't useful.

    Now, if it's a context where you're talking about various game systems and their pros and cons? Being purely positive isn't necessarily necessary. Though even then I find it more useful to discuss things from the frame of "it's good at X, but X isn't something I care about."
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  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by kyoryu View Post
    Yeah, exactly. Yucking someone's yum usually just puts them in a defensive stance and isn't useful.

    Now, if it's a context where you're talking about various game systems and their pros and cons? Being purely positive isn't necessarily necessary. Though even then I find it more useful to discuss things from the frame of "it's good at X, but X isn't something I care about."
    Or even "I don't like how it does X; I prefer when that's implemented as Z". Phrasing it as an opinion or matter of taste makes a lot of difference, especially since 99.9% (warning, internet number!) of cases are just matters of preference and subjective judgement.

    One thing I was taught about persuading people is to build on common ground. Start from where both sides agree and then build. Even if they have beliefs that you believe are wrong, it's more productive to try to show how they could benefit by accepting yours, rather than trying to break down those "false" beliefs.

    Do I always practice this? No. I try, but am vulnerable to taking very dogmatic stances even when the data doesn't really bear that out or where doing so is not effective. It's something I'm working on. Mainly by not responding when I can feel the need to go all bulldog on something that doesn't really matter.
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  3. - Top - End - #483
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    That is not clever or funny. I do not appreciate it.
    It was only meant as an aside on the paradox of being against (enforced) positivity being an inherently negative position; being against something is saying it's bad. No offense was intended, I apologize that it came across as an attack.

    Case in point, starting with what came across negatively had you disengage with my point, which was my point. It's not saying only say positive things or else, it's saying that as a practical matter, it's easier to persuade someone with the positives of what you're advocating for. Negatives can very easily come across as an attack, which tends to have the opposite effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text

  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Did we already see this unpopular opinion:

    Player agency in RPGs is amongst the most overrated elements.

    How about this one:

    Player focus on optimization in RPGs is ironic (at least in the most common incorrect usage of the word).

    I certainly believe the first, at least in the grand scope, and comedically believe the second.

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  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Might be a side effect of the video/crpg game era's expectations. Yeah, would like that to get more love.
    You have triggered a memory of something in the 90's, IIRC, can't remember if it was a Basic D&D book or AD&D 2e book. It had the words sword and coast in it (Or was it the Red Coast?) That whole "which fencing/sword fighting school you learned at" was included in it.
    I think it seemed to cater to that swashbuckling motif that you like.
    (FWIW, it seems to me that I saw it at about the time I began to pick up a few Birthright setting books, so they may be contemporary. Does that ring a bell?) (Might have been red steel, but that might not be what I am remembering. Savage Coast does ring a bell).

    I have not played Seventh Sea: it seems to fit your genre desire though. Does it have that kind of swordplay you are looking for?

    Hmm, after some poking around, looks like Savage Coast began as a Basic D&D setting, Savage Coast, in the 80's, Mystara, that got ported into AD&D sometime in the 90's.
    I also may have this mixed up in my memory with some Dragon Magazine articles that may have been in the same issue as an article about the Savage Coast.
    Was it Red Steel?
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  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Did we already see this unpopular opinion:

    Player agency in RPGs is amongst the most overrated elements.
    How do you rank it's importance? How does it seem overrated?
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    All Roads Lead to Gnome.

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  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Did we already see this unpopular opinion:

    Player agency in RPGs is amongst the most overrated elements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    How do you rank it's importance? How does it seem overrated?
    That one seems weird to me too, because IMX "player agency" correlates heavily with "fun".

    Also given that I define Roleplaying as making in character decisions in the fantasy environment, IMX also correlates heavily heavily with "roleplaying". But that may be more a case of chicken and egg.

  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    I play crunch heavy games because puzzles, gambling and simulation are fun.

    I engage in freeform RP because bouncing ideas off one another in a more formal arrangement is fun.

    If I want a passive experience I’ll watch a movie or read a book. Watching game streams similarly ranks as a toilet activity. If I’m sitting down for tabletop it had better be more active and engaging than a #2.
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  9. - Top - End - #489
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Did we already see this unpopular opinion:

    Player agency in RPGs is amongst the most overrated elements.
    I am interested. Please tell me more.
    *This Space Available*

  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Lizardfolk

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    Big parties, like those in critical role or dimension 20 or any popular D&D cast, are boring and drag down the action. I can barely handle 4 players in my home game without getting confused, and I have to stay engaged or the game ends as I am the GM. I have no idea who 1/3 of the cast of critical role is, and I've watched a couple of episodes. Well, I sped through the fighting bits. Let Mercer describe how spooky the monsters are and watch some faces before the slog of too many people taking turns begins.

    Didn't even make it to combat in dimension 20.
    yo

  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Spriteless View Post
    Big parties, like those in critical role or dimension 20 or any popular D&D cast, are boring and drag down the action. I can barely handle 4 players in my home game without getting confused, and I have to stay engaged or the game ends as I am the GM. I have no idea who 1/3 of the cast of critical role is, and I've watched a couple of episodes. Well, I sped through the fighting bits. Let Mercer describe how spooky the monsters are and watch some faces before the slog of too many people taking turns begins.

    Didn't even make it to combat in dimension 20.
    Honestly my problem with Critical Role was less the size of the party (although that doesn't help) and more the lack of editing. I'm still incredibly annoyed at the fact that we aren't going to get more Titansgraave, as the editing (especially of combat) helped keep the flow. Only good RPG show in my opinion.

    Oh well, I still have my book. I can adapt it to Modern AGE and run it with some people who haven't seen it. Maybe we can come up with a decent conclusion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  12. - Top - End - #492
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Did we already see this unpopular opinion:

    Player agency in RPGs is amongst the most overrated elements.
    I'm curious about this... Because agency and freedom of choice is the one thing that tabletop RPGs do better than electronic ones. And what keeps bringing me back to the hobby in the first place.
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  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spriteless View Post
    Big parties, like those in critical role or dimension 20 or any popular D&D cast, are boring and drag down the action.
    That's unpopular? I thought it was more or less widely agreed on that gaming groups should be around 3~7 people (GM included).

    I downright refuse to play in any campaign with more than 6 players.
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  14. - Top - End - #494
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    BardGirl

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    5e is popular, ubiquitous and also a really good RPG in its own right.

    Hit points are a really good damage system, and there's a reason why they endure as RPG's with more "realistic" damage systems come and go.

  15. - Top - End - #495
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Spriteless View Post
    parties, like those in critical role or dimension 20 or any popular D&D cast, are boring and drag down the action.
    Okay, is the misquote an unpopular opinion now?
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  16. - Top - End - #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    Or even "I don't like how it does X; I prefer when that's implemented as Z". Phrasing it as an opinion or matter of taste makes a lot of difference, especially since 99.9% (warning, internet number!) of cases are just matters of preference and subjective judgement.

    One thing I was taught about persuading people is to build on common ground. Start from where both sides agree and then build. Even if they have beliefs that you believe are wrong, it's more productive to try to show how they could benefit by accepting yours, rather than trying to break down those "false" beliefs.

    Do I always practice this? No. I try, but am vulnerable to taking very dogmatic stances even when the data doesn't really bear that out or where doing so is not effective. It's something I'm working on. Mainly by not responding when I can feel the need to go all bulldog on something that doesn't really matter.
    While after thinking it over I can with great reluctance conclude your logically correct, I don't think I am capable of being that diplomatic. I admit do much the same by trying to not respond to things when it wouldn't benefit me. Though I think there is more people in this world than just me that needs to learn to find common ground. Its a surprisingly rare quality in my experience.

    However I can't take it to heart. I know the moment I try to actually follow and apply this elsewhere, somewhere else on the forum someone else will tell me the view you just told me is wrong for their reasons, I won't care enough to remember yours, and end up just feeling frustrated at the general muddled subjectivity of humanity again and just go back to believing what I currently believe to hold firm to something at all, so I might as well not even try, and save myself a lot of trouble by not attempting to please anyone whose interaction with mainly consist of debates on things we don't see eye to eye on.

    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    It was only meant as an aside on the paradox of being against (enforced) positivity being an inherently negative position; being against something is saying it's bad. No offense was intended, I apologize that it came across as an attack.

    Case in point, starting with what came across negatively had you disengage with my point, which was my point. It's not saying only say positive things or else, it's saying that as a practical matter, it's easier to persuade someone with the positives of what you're advocating for. Negatives can very easily come across as an attack, which tends to have the opposite effect.
    I accept your apology.
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  17. - Top - End - #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    5e is popular, ubiquitous and also a really good RPG in its own right.

    Hit points are a really good damage system, and there's a reason why they endure as RPG's with more "realistic" damage systems come and go.
    On the other hand, there is nothing inherently wrong with a death spiral. Issues generally come from not giving a big enough buffer, and forcing characters suffering significant penalties to continue on. If you're damaged enough to be taking penalties you should probably be avoiding battle.

    On other words, CofD did the death spiral much better than oWoD did (penalties only kick in if you're going your last few health boxes, and most supernaturals have at least a limited ability to get better once they leave combat).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  18. - Top - End - #498
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Talakeal View Post
    Was it Red Steel?
    I think so. That surely looks familiar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    Watching game streams similarly ranks as a toilet activity.
    I prefer the Economist for that version of quality time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    5e is popular, ubiquitous and also a really good RPG in its own right.
    Yes, it is a good RPG. And there are others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    On the other hand, there is nothing inherently wrong with a death spiral. Issues generally come from not giving a big enough buffer, and forcing characters suffering significant penalties to continue on. If you're damaged enough to be taking penalties you should probably be avoiding battle.
    Yes. Only do battle when you have set the conditions for success. (Sun Tzu, badly paraphrased).
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  19. - Top - End - #499
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    MonkGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Did we already see this unpopular opinion:

    Player agency in RPGs is amongst the most overrated elements.
    I’m also interested in this. Would like to hear more.

    On the whole I’d say I disagree, player agency is very important. That said, some recent discussion here in the playground made me think and conclude it’s not quite as important as I thought. Specifically, it’s not the core thing that’s at issue when we think about “railroading”.

    But if your point is that railroading is good actually, then I CERTAINLY disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    On the other hand, there is nothing inherently wrong with a death spiral. Issues generally come from not giving a big enough buffer, and forcing characters suffering significant penalties to continue on. If you're damaged enough to be taking penalties you should probably be avoiding battle.
    And that's great for grittier games than D&D. Hit points work perfectly for the heroic fantasy of D&D--they're very simple to keep track of, you have a rough idea of how long you can stay in the fight unless something unexpected happens, there's a lot of room to interpret what a hit actually means, and they give the thrill of being near defeat without also becoming worse at what you do, encouraging going on the attack to drop your opponent before they take you out.

  21. - Top - End - #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I think that was meant to be a 'in 3.X', where they scale with spell level. One of the things that makes multiclassing as a caster annoying.



    Barebones Fantasy does D&D better than D&D did, desire being a significantly smaller book (and therefore cheaper). This is due to both it's simplicity and 'profession as skill' system.
    Potentially they meant Spell Level, but they specifically called out Character and Class Level twice. So. I'm unsure.

  22. - Top - End - #502
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Player agency in RPGs is amongst the most overrated elements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Luccan View Post
    How do you rank it's importance? How does it seem overrated?
    Quote Originally Posted by Easy e View Post
    I am interested. Please tell me more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    That one seems weird to me too, because IMX "player agency" correlates heavily with "fun".

    Also given that I define Roleplaying as making in character decisions in the fantasy environment, IMX also correlates heavily heavily with "roleplaying". But that may be more a case of chicken and egg.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
    I'm curious about this... Because agency and freedom of choice is the one thing that tabletop RPGs do better than electronic ones. And what keeps bringing me back to the hobby in the first place.
    I admit this was a bit of a leading statement, but let me try to explain.

    Quick background: Began with AD&D in 1983, played a very wide range of games actively through probably 2010. Broad sampling - probably played 30 - 40 different systems- in an array of settings (home, store, convention, etc), but the vast majority has been in-person with a social component (not necessarily friends, but people that I was interested in spending time with). Have not played anything regularly in the last 5 years. That may have relevance.

    For the last few years (maybe more), I have seen loud statements about player agency, the terrible evils of "railroading", and the horrible Quantum Ogre. I believe these to be linked, and are all a matter of degree (of course), but I think perhaps it is the quantum ogre that is the biggest stimulus on this issue. My perspective is that there exists at least a loud-enough-for-me-to-hear group that feels no decision, situation or action should involve their character without expressed choice and permission, and that every action taken by their character should lead to a unique set of outcomes.

    In general, I believe part of the social contract of RPGs involves ceding some level of individual agency to the group, both GM and other players, to support the enjoyment of a shared experience. I believe that I should have agency for the major decisions, pivotal actions, mechanical development, etc., within the scope of limitations established for the specific group in the specific game. However, I also believe that the best games I have played involve a level of trust that some degree of agency can/should be ceded to further the experience of the group. To whit, I will advocate biting the adventure hook, or accepting the in media res of starting a story in the clutches of the evil bads/finding ourselves in a dark alleyway by the docks/waking on a ship about to make the jump through the wormhole to the Delta Quadrant...because I trust and believe that the GM is making that decision for the good of the experience.

    I will, of course, expect to be able to make the decision to slay the dragon or let her eat the kidnapped prince, to choose not to follow the dictates of the Hobbit evil overlord, or to abandon my Quest for the Holey Quail.

    If I know about the ogre outside of town, and that he's watching the western gate...and choose to go out the eastern gate hidden in a barrel of fish, I may well be displeased that the ogre is suddenly on the eastern road...but if we are none the wiser and the GM has planned a ogre/griffin/gibbering mouther encounter that will occur on the Old Towne Road while transiting from Nowhere Hamlet to Bigcityville, I have precisely zero issue with that encounter falling on us even if we chose New Towne Path instead of Old Towne Road.

    An extreme definition of player agency (I control every facet of everything regarding my character, and my actions must always carry consequences unique to those choices, regardless of the benefit to the game as a whole) has been put forth as vital/most important. It is that kind of "agency" I mean when I say player agency is overrated...there are times when that degree of expectation on the part of the players is, to me, perhaps selfish (? - need better word here) and lessens the value of the experience for the group.

    There are lines not to be crossed, there are lines that should only be crossed sometimes, and there are things that I will always cede to the experience, at least until I know that I cannot trust that GM to "play fair" with my agency...and that's not likely to lead to a continued experience. I think there's even a difference between player agency at the table and between sessions.

    tl;dr: Quantum ogres are fine. Starting the story on the path to King Blobb's Mines even if we didn't play out the mission acceptance is fine. Destroying everything my character worked for on a whim, not fine. Making my character take actions demonstrably and directly opposed to my paradigm, not fine. Agency is important, but it isn't the most important thing in the game.

    - M

    Saw this after:

    Quote Originally Posted by HidesHisEyes View Post
    I’m also interested in this. Would like to hear more.

    On the whole I’d say I disagree, player agency is very important. That said, some recent discussion here in the playground made me think and conclude it’s not quite as important as I thought. Specifically, it’s not the core thing that’s at issue when we think about “railroading”.

    But if your point is that railroading is good actually, then I CERTAINLY disagree.
    Some degree of what I believe many people think of as railroading may be acceptable, and potentially even good...but the classic perjorative use (to me: single solution to adventures, GM drives everything and players just roll dice, can never turn away from the scripted plot) is a loud no. I advocate for hopping on and off the train as the group wills, and that the train is only transport to the start of the new story.
    Last edited by Mordar; 2021-10-22 at 03:47 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #503
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    If I know about the ogre outside of town, and that he's watching the western gate...and choose to go out the eastern gate hidden in a barrel of fish, I may well be displeased that the ogre is suddenly on the eastern road...but if we are none the wiser and the GM has planned a ogre/griffin/gibbering mouther encounter that will occur on the Old Towne Road while transiting from Nowhere Hamlet to Bigcityville, I have precisely zero issue with that encounter falling on us even if we chose New Towne Path instead of Old Towne Road.
    Thats not really a quantum ogre.

    When it's a quantum ogre is if there are three roads to different destinations, and one is an ogre encounter and another a tougher giant encounter and the third you find the mcguffin, and regardless of which ones you choose the ogre encounter is first, the giant second encounter, then you find the mcguffin on the third.

    And that really does make informed player decision making pointless. I mean, if they chose them effectively at random, they already ceded player agency in the first place. But a quantum ogre assumes no way /precludes any way for them to get the information to make an informed player decision.

    Also usually when I've heard it discussed player agency is being discussed at the team level. Not at the level of "you don't get to tell me what my character says/does/feels/thinks" level. That's a whole other barrel of worms.

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    In general, I believe part of the social contract of RPGs involves ceding some level of individual agency to the group, both GM and other players, to support the enjoyment of a shared experience. d that the train is only transport to the start of the new story.
    Yeah, that's a matter of small group dynamics. The issue with railroad and sandbox being a spectrum, not an either or, is also a matter not well addressed by those loud voices who make all of the noise.
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    b. greenstone (paraphrased):
    Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct!
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    And that's great for grittier games than D&D. Hit points work perfectly for the heroic fantasy of D&D--they're very simple to keep track of, you have a rough idea of how long you can stay in the fight unless something unexpected happens, there's a lot of room to interpret what a hit actually means, and they give the thrill of being near defeat without also becoming worse at what you do, encouraging going on the attack to drop your opponent before they take you out.
    Oh I wasn't saying that one should be added to D&D, or any game in particular. While I think the can work in heroic fantasy games their main advantage is providing an incentive to retest before dying.

    To me, even in a heroic gateway, combat should be dangerous. It's something you do not because there's an orc in a 10ft by 10ft room. You initiate combat because you're hungry, the orc has pie, and not being hungry is more important to you then not dying (replace pie and hunger with any relevant MacGuffin and emotion). My favourite part of Unknown Armies is that it's combat chapter opens with six ways to avoid a fight because sometimes you don't want the shineys that badly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Azuresun View Post
    And that's great for grittier games than D&D. Hit points work perfectly for the heroic fantasy of D&D--they're very simple to keep track of, you have a rough idea of how long you can stay in the fight unless something unexpected happens, there's a lot of room to interpret what a hit actually means, and they give the thrill of being near defeat without also becoming worse at what you do, encouraging going on the attack to drop your opponent before they take you out.
    And allows for the very Fantasy Adventure archetypes of the meat wall and the "berserker" (ie charges into battle, laughs at his own wounds), as well as all the associated archetypes. Because if there's a death spiral, charging into battle like that and trying to draw the attention to yourself is, well, stupid and unlikely to give you a lifespan longer than a few battles. The archetype of the guy shrugging off attacks and face-tanking a dragon's attacks with armor or steely muscles is one with a deeply-embedded memetic complex in fantasy.

    Different "feels" need different mechanics, especially around things how and when battle should be engaged in.
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    Okay, is the misquote an unpopular opinion now?
    Probably, but only because Critters outnumber all other D&D fans combined. :)
    yo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    tl;dr: Quantum ogres are fine. Starting the story on the path to King Blobb's Mines even if we didn't play out the mission acceptance is fine. Destroying everything my character worked for on a whim, not fine. Making my character take actions demonstrably and directly opposed to my paradigm, not fine. Agency is important, but it isn't the most important thing in the game.

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    Saw this after:



    Some degree of what I believe many people think of as railroading may be acceptable, and potentially even good...but the classic perjorative use (to me: single solution to adventures, GM drives everything and players just roll dice, can never turn away from the scripted plot) is a loud no. I advocate for hopping on and off the train as the group wills, and that the train is only transport to the start of the new story.
    Ok we roughly agree. It occurred to me during the recent big thread about railroading on here that loss player agency is a core part of how most RPGs work - it happens every time you fail a dice roll, after all - and not really the problem with railroading (which I just define as a linear narrative structure that the GM enforces).

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    To be fair to large groups, they can work for rotational play. So you'll (almost) never have all nine players in the room, more often it'll just be the four who turned up.

    It's not how I like to play, but it's not for me to judge.

    Me, I prefer the standard model where you presume that everybody will make the session, although I'm also getting interested in having multiple characters per player. Mostly in the troupe play model where everybody can wear different hats but the GM had the most, but also in other ways (such as Wraith's Shadowguide idea, or having the players all be gentry and a different character's primary servant).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    To me, even in a heroic gateway, combat should be dangerous. It's something you do not because there's an orc in a 10ft by 10ft room. You initiate combat because you're hungry, the orc has pie, and not being hungry is more important to you then not dying (replace pie and hunger with any relevant MacGuffin and emotion). My favourite part of Unknown Armies is that it's combat chapter opens with six ways to avoid a fight because sometimes you don't want the shineys that badly.
    Important to note, "not dangerous" = "D&D Heroic" is a fairly new WotC interpretation of D&D Heroic.

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