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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by dafrca View Post
    Interesting, my mind now wants to know what makes them a mage then? I know maybe another thread but you do have me curious to see what they could do with it.
    I mean, I always wanted a low-magic system where the mage is mainly there as a scholar and that's viable. Haven't really found one so far. You know, the wilderness guy, the main fighter, the rogue and the smart guy are sneaking through the abandoned tunnels, when the smart guy holds up his hands and says "The runes on this door say there is a powerful curse on this place". And then he maybe knows how to get around that curse by sprinking salt and carry a hawthorn branch in your left hand.

    But then you still get the problem of one guy just sitting on the sidelines in combat. Kind of a reverse of the Shadowrun problem with hacking and astral projection.
    Resident Vancian Apologist

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Too many classes with access to magic. Restrict it to mages / sorcerers / warlocks / clerics. While we're at it, just do away with sorcerers, they don't add anything of value to the game.

    Warriors should get their level x2 added to their initiative. Champion fighters should do triple damage on crits.

    HP should cap out at 2x con, make combat dangerous again.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    High HP meaning superhuman durability is perfectly valid.

    5e gnolls are metal.

    Asmodeus is a projection of Ahriman.

    The “in between” alignment planes have valid reasons to exist.

    On a related note, Gatetowns should be more than just “towns”, but the capitals of nations within the Outland.

    Divine spells should be called charisms, because that word isn’t used nearly enough.

    Being “interesting and nuanced” doesn’t require libertarian free will.

    Lemures and manes need to actually be used more as low level enemies.

    Celestials should do things on occasion. The celestial pact warlock helps with this a little admittedly.

    Railroading is better than demanding the players railroad themselves.

    I like the Blood War.
    Last edited by NovenFromTheSun; 2021-10-07 at 05:29 AM.
    I imagine Elminster's standard day begins like "Wake up, exit my completely impenetrable, spell-proofed bedroom to go to the bathroom, kill the inevitable 3 balors waiting there, brush my teeth, have a wizard fight with the archlich hiding in the shower, use the toilet..."
    -Waterdeep Merch.

    Laphicet avatar by linklele.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    If you are going to remove fixed racial attribute bonuses, just remove racial attribute bonuses all together.

    In fact, just remove attributes (and bonuses) all together - we know all characters try to start with +4 on their attack stat, at least +2 hit points, and as much dex bonus to AC as they can get. After that, they only effect your skills. Just add those things to the character baseline, change how skills work, and move on with your day.

    And the big one...

    Make Wizards Fragile again. Lets dial back some of those edition on edition buffs and see some of those old second edition checks and balances returned. No, you can't wear armour and cast spells, even if you are multiclassed. D4 hit points for you. No Int bonus to spell hit rolls. Goodbye unlimited attack cantrips superior to weapon attacks. Take a hit before your turn came around, spell fizzle and lost slot. There is a reason Wizards are powerful, and it should be because Wizard life is not easy.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    I find 5e to be a relatively boring edition. I prefer it to 4e, and I tolerate playing it, but mechanically and for character creation I get very little satisfaction from it. (Don't get me wrong, it's well-designed mostly and works pretty well overall, but it's just... boring)

    Cantrips shouldn't be unlimited. In fact, casters shouldn't have unlimited magic.

    Spell DCs should scale with Character Level as well. (I like Pathfinder's DCs for class abilities, which is 10 + 1/2 class level + Ability modifier)

    Bards should have less spells and more unique class features that utilize performances (think Seeker of the Song prc from 3.5, in Complete Arcane). I don't want a slow-progressing Sorcerer who sings, I want someone who creates magical effects with their music.

    D&D should be, and can be, just as fun at high levels as low levels. 5e seems to wallow in this idea that gameplay stops at level 10 or so, as one can tell by how classes get less exciting around from there.

    Clerics should be held to the same standards as Paladins, as they are both chosen servants of their God. I hate how the Paladin gets a strict Code of Conduct (for some cool but not game-breaking abilities), whereas the Cleric just has to "remain within one step of their God's alignment" but are Tier 1 and clearly one of the best classes in the game (and gets 9th-level spells). They're the same, just serving two different purposes for their god, one a warrior and the other a spiritual leader.

    I'm fine with Alignment (this seems to be an unpopular opinion in the Playground).

    Caster/Martial Disparity has never been a problem for me in my almost 20 years of playing, has never been a problem in the various groups I've played in with the many different people I've played with, and I didn't know it was a problem until I started frequenting forums like the Playground.
    RHoD: Soah | SC: Green Sparrow | WotBS: Sheliya |RoW: Raani | SA: Ariste | IG: Hemali | RoA: Abelia | WftC: Elize | Zeitgeist: Rutile
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  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    The Forgotten Realms are a crazy place which has turned into a sheethole, all in all it's a bad setting in which everything feels overdone and stale...and yet we all love it, for a reason or the other, so it will never really go.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Fighter is an npc class, or at best 1/4 a class that’s missing the rest of its progression. Similar case for a smattering of constrained concept classes.

    The D20 is too swingy, and bounded accuracy makes this far worse.

    Keywords are your Allies, they shouldn’t Intimidate you.

    Good editiing are a rarerty,

    If the game has you build with point buy, you should progress by point buy.

    Racial ability score adjustments are not good or bad in a vacuum, it’s just a design tool to cater to a customer type. It’s not like apple catering to iDiots, it’s just I ordered a pizza and pineapple doesn’t go on pizzas!
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    3e was a bad system (worse than 4e) that broke far more than it fixed.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    5e does nothing special.

    it's not as quick to play, lethal or easy to make characters as 1e/2e, the character creation isn't nearly as deep or expressive as what 3e could get down to, 4e combat leaves 5e in the dust. 5e tries to be a "best of" but doesn't actually go so far to actually do what made those best bits "the best" and the end product is the most milquetoast version of D&D to date. While mechanically it's less flawed then previous editions, i can play around or even with those flaws (and the shenanigans that occur with doing so) without issue and would play any older ed over 5e given a choice.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    People fetishize story and narrative too much nowadays.

    EVERYTHING is about crafting a story is seems now. *pulls out rocking chair and puts on old man voice* Back in the day, the story is what you crafted AFTER the adventure was over, once you were at the tavern during downtime. The stories that we used to tell were those of stuff that happened organically due to the circumstances around the play, now every other group or player seems to be out to make the next great literary novel, but in RP form. And boy could I not care any less.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Get rid of stats

    Whole stats, like a con of 14, has been largely pointless since 3rd ed since only the derived mod is used.

    I could also go with cutting stats out entirely and having the game focus on the skills, but the 6 stats is a very "D&D" thing and largely part of the brand identity, imo.

  10. - Top - End - #40
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxybe View Post
    People fetishize story and narrative too much nowadays.

    EVERYTHING is about crafting a story is seems now. *pulls out rocking chair and puts on old man voice* Back in the day, the story is what you crafted AFTER the adventure was over, once you were at the tavern during downtime. The stories that we used to tell were those of stuff that happened organically due to the circumstances around the play, now every other group or player seems to be out to make the next great literary novel, but in RP form. And boy could I not care any less.
    Totally agreed there. Imo nothing wrong with both styles if the individual enjoys them but I'm very much a "i just want to rp my character" guy. I don't want to be thinking about my characters future story arcs or who he'll fall in love with. I just wanna act as my character in the moment and see where his decisions take him. Regardless of it's a novel worthy story or not.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Oh, and one more:

    NPC's should be built using the same rules as characters. Fight me.

  12. - Top - End - #42
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cicciograna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    It's impossible to make everybody happy, there will always be players unhappy with whatever evolution the game will go through.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Melee combat has bad design. It should be weapon skill vs weapon skill and armour acts as damage reduction.

    Character levels is a bad design. Skills should increase, not hitpoints.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    In other words actually give races drawbacks.
    Adding to my list:
    They need to reintroduce non-human level limits and class restrictions. Those were a feature, not a bug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Faily View Post
    D&D should be, and can be, just as fun at high levels as low levels. 5e seems to wallow in this idea that gameplay stops at level 10 or so, as one can tell by how classes get less exciting around from there.
    Add three to my list:
    Level advancement is too fast. Time to scale it back so it takes more than six months of weekly play to reach level 11 and a year to reach level 20. Slow it down by at least a factor to two, preferably as much as four.

    Levels 1-10 are all that's needed in a PHB. Levels 11+ should be in a Name-level expansion book.

    Levels 11+ should ne primarily about strongholds, domain management and army warfare, with occasional high level adventuring sprinkled in to support the costs. Context switching for the name-level game was a feature, not a bug.

  15. - Top - End - #45
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cicciograna's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    stuff I agree with
    The standard reaction to this is that "the game is played by human beings, it's only natural to standardize everything to human level".

    There is so much fear of the diverse and the implications of diversity that, rather than learning to accept and value what would be diverse, the default solution is to make every race a reskin of Humans.
    Last edited by Cicciograna; 2021-10-07 at 08:55 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Adding to my list:
    They need to reintroduce non-human level limits and class restrictions. Those were a feature, not a bug.
    Whether or not it would make sense from a mechanical standpoint, I feel like most of that would be difficult to explain in universe.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Miniatures are cool.
    “Rule is what lies between what is said and what is understood.”
    ~Raja Rudatha, the Spider Prince
    Golem Arcana

  18. - Top - End - #48
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cicciograna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbalance View Post
    Miniatures are cool.
    Is this really an unpopular opinion?

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cicciograna View Post
    Is this really an unpopular opinion?
    Very few on this forum ever talk about them except to say how expensive they are.
    “Rule is what lies between what is said and what is understood.”
    ~Raja Rudatha, the Spider Prince
    Golem Arcana

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Imbalance View Post
    Miniatures are cool.
    Clearly there are some people that think they’re hot, else why would they be spending thousands of dollars on miniatures of 500 year old dragons?
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by oxybe View Post
    5e does nothing special.

    it's not as quick to play, lethal or easy to make characters as 1e/2e, the character creation isn't nearly as deep or expressive as what 3e could get down to, 4e combat leaves 5e in the dust. 5e tries to be a "best of" but doesn't actually go so far to actually do what made those best bits "the best" and the end product is the most milquetoast version of D&D to date. While mechanically it's less flawed then previous editions, i can play around or even with those flaws (and the shenanigans that occur with doing so) without issue and would play any older ed over 5e given a choice.
    As an addition, anything new in 5e it's a poorly implemented version of something an indie game did better ten years back.

    Although to be fair the designers couldn't even copy 4e without removing the good bits (like Healing Surges, the attacker always rolling, and no multiclassing).




    People fetishize story and narrative too much nowadays.

    EVERYTHING is about crafting a story is seems now. *pulls out rocking chair and puts on old man voice* Back in the day, the story is what you crafted AFTER the adventure was over, once you were at the tavern during downtime. The stories that we used to tell were those of stuff that happened organically due to the circumstances around the play, now every other group or player seems to be out to make the next great literary novel, but in RP form. And boy could I not care any less.
    Eh, for many games 'collaborative storytelling experience' is code for 'we don't want to admit it's just about combat'. It's not always the case, but after some really good narrative games came out of now seems to be the default defence. Or maybe it was World of Darkness that started it, that came out before the actually good narrative games.

    The best stories from games are those that emerge from games that try to emulate narrative pacing. And they're still nowhere near amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Tanarii's Avatar

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Batcathat View Post
    Whether or not it would make sense from a mechanical standpoint, I feel like most of that would be difficult to explain in universe.
    The old explanation works fine.

    Demi humans (ie Team Good Guy non-humans) are old races fading from the limelight. They can't produce heroes of the caliber of humans any more. Demi-human level limits are just there to prevent new Demi-god strength non-humans. Which is why they're typically around of about name level. You can be a mover and shaker of (at least small) nations. Just not a level 17 superhuman. Admittedly AD&D had some pseudo-class restrictions with very low level limits of 4-8. That's fine too.

    Limiting humanoids (ie Team Bad Guy non-humans) is harder to justify. It's not that they have limitations, it's just that adventurers usually cut them down before they get too powerful. Which is why PCs have to face boss-level chieftains and the like as they get more powerful. But that doesn't matter because those races aren't intended to be playable.

  23. - Top - End - #53
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    D&D Combat is really boring. Traps are boring.

    Player agency is over-rated. Railroading is a valuable tool when used sparingly and appropriately.

    An RPG only needs rules to determine if characters' pass/fail a test. Everything else is window dressing.

    People value the strategic choices in D&D more than actually playing the game.
    *This Space Available*

  24. - Top - End - #54
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy e View Post
    People value the strategic choices in D&D more than actually playing the game.
    How does one narrowly define ‘playing the game’ for a system that’s marketing itself to all kinds of audiences?
    If all rules are suggestions what happens when I pass the save?

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Tanarii's Avatar

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by Easy e View Post
    People value the strategic choices in D&D more than actually playing the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xervous View Post
    How does one narrowly define ‘playing the game’ for a system that’s marketing itself to all kinds of audiences?
    Character Building or white room example discussion on forums vs running adventures at the table with a DM and multiple players.

    But I'm not sure that's what Easy e meant.

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    AD&D humans need actual mechanical advantages.

    In AD&D, it was not "Humans get to be paladins" but "Paladins have to be humans"; it was a restriction on the class's power, not a benefit to humans.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    D&D is not a good generic RPG. It is actually a very niche RPG. It's just so popular that it's niche is for some reason considered "standard". It's very good in its niche, but doesn't do a good job outside of it. (Evidence: For 95% of fictional settings, D&D is in the bottom 20% or so of systems for ease and fidelity of converting to that setting)
    Last edited by kyoryu; 2021-10-07 at 09:45 AM.
    "Gosh 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also good looking)"

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Exploration and Social are not under-represented in D&D 5e. They aren't played as much because most players don't want to play them. I'll be fair and admit that the mechanics make combat the default last resort for social encounters that go bad (you're one bad die roll away from fighting your grandmother), but most players prefer to solve their problems with violence. Exploration is a logistics game and most players can't even be bothered to track encumbrance let alone dealing with all the factors involved in exploration. Likewise, all the tools needed for social are there but players would rather fight a Tarrasque than walk into a social setting without a full set of armor and an array of weapons that would frighten a town dweller to death.

    I don't like the random swings of the d20 mechanic. Players who play to their strengths should have a very good chance of success and not be left staring in horror at a sub-5 die roll that destroys the plan they spent an hour crafting. The d20 mechanic pretty much pushes every contested encounter into combat and players can save a ton of stress by simply going straight to the violence.

    Players are over-powered. Yeah, I know the video-game/superhero mechanic is super popular and a large part of the reason D&D 5e is so successful and it makes all sorts of good sense. I just don't like it.

    The magic system. It ought to be skill based, highly adaptable, and if things go far wrong magic users' brains should decorate the walls like a gory abstract pointillist painting. But, again, d20 makes that artistic outcome far too likely so they've got to use something else. And the Vancian style does adhere to their simplicity of play mantra.

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    I answered a similar question a bit earlier.
    Yep, saw it only after I posted.

    And yes, an interesting idea.
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude... seeming to be true within the context of the game world.

    "D&D does not have SECRET rules that can only be revealed by meticulous deconstruction of words and grammar. There is only the unclear rules prose that makes people think there are secret rules to be revealed."

    Consistency between games and tables is but the dream of a madman - Mastikator

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Unpopular D&D Opinions

    5e is going down the hill not up the hill.

    D&D 3.5 was not as bad as some people would have us believe.

    If they end up changing everything (or a major number of things) it is just a new game with a D&D brand slapped on to it.

    I miss when I just played the game and didn't worry what people thought, I need to return to that "I do not care what you think" attitude.
    Last edited by dafrca; 2021-10-07 at 10:19 AM.
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude... seeming to be true within the context of the game world.

    "D&D does not have SECRET rules that can only be revealed by meticulous deconstruction of words and grammar. There is only the unclear rules prose that makes people think there are secret rules to be revealed."

    Consistency between games and tables is but the dream of a madman - Mastikator

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