Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse

[Warder]

I feel like this thread partially explains why I am never excited for new races (or new subclasses, etc etc) anymore. Whenever WotC does try something that breaks the mold in some fashion, it is going to be scrutinized by thousands of people, of course. Then when someone finds a way for that new thing to be stronger than the previous norm, what inevitably follows is a huge public outcry that makes WotC withdraw themselves back into their super comfortable safe bubble and replace the new feature with "You learn an additional language" or whatever. Thri-kreen wouldn't be thri-kreen without four arms. If having four arms allows for some very, very particular builds to be stronger than they are - I think that's fine. It's a very niche race already, will we see a flood of thri-kreen crossbow wielders across the D&D community? Will that be worse than the flood of warlock dips since day 1?

I mean I get it, being on the watch for power creep is a noble effort. I always think it needs to be tempered by reality, though.

[stoutstien]

I feel like this thread partially explains why I am never excited for new races (or new subclasses, etc etc) anymore. Whenever WotC does try something that breaks the mold in some fashion, it is going to be scrutinized by thousands of people, of course. Then when someone finds a way for that new thing to be stronger than the previous norm, what inevitably follows is a huge public outcry that makes WotC withdraw themselves back into their super comfortable safe bubble and replace the new feature with "You learn an additional language" or whatever. Thri-kreen wouldn't be thri-kreen without four arms. If having four arms allows for some very, very particular builds to be stronger than they are - I think that's fine. It's a very niche race already, will we see a flood of thri-kreen crossbow wielders across the D&D community? Will that be worse than the flood of warlock dips since day 1?

I mean I get it, being on the watch for power creep is a noble effort. I always think it needs to be tempered by reality, though.

The sim hybrid and loxodon are proof they can do it within the 5e framework. Ive actually seen some well balanced kreen homebrews as well.

They could simply drop DV, the built in AC/camouflage, and give them automatic exhaustion for not eating enough during a day. Nothing wrong with a build defining racial feature as long as there's some reason why someone might not want it other than taste.

[Kuu Lightwing]

I feel like this thread partially explains why I am never excited for new races (or new subclasses, etc etc) anymore. Whenever WotC does try something that breaks the mold in some fashion, it is going to be scrutinized by thousands of people, of course. Then when someone finds a way for that new thing to be stronger than the previous norm, what inevitably follows is a huge public outcry that makes WotC withdraw themselves back into their super comfortable safe bubble and replace the new feature with "You learn an additional language" or whatever. Thri-kreen wouldn't be thri-kreen without four arms. If having four arms allows for some very, very particular builds to be stronger than they are - I think that's fine. It's a very niche race already, will we see a flood of thri-kreen crossbow wielders across the D&D community? Will that be worse than the flood of warlock dips since day 1?

I mean I get it, being on the watch for power creep is a noble effort. I always think it needs to be tempered by reality, though.

I would say that there's also that races normally aren't really that big part of a mechanical budget of a character, so the main benefit of having races is lore and roleplay. But you only need so many species in a game, beyond that it becomes... too many?
Like Thri-kreen is a big part of Dark Sun from what I understand, it's one of the species and cultures there, so it's interesting to see them there where they are integrated in the setting, while just releasing them as "here's a race you can play, go ahead and play them if you want an insectoid character" is a little less exciting.

[jaappleton]

Thri Kreen isn't that big of a deal, with some small adjustments.

I believe its already inferred in the ability, but the smaller arms can't utilize a shield. Just make that clear.
The small arms aren't dextrous enough to reload something.

The whole thing about hands free for components? That's nothing. A greatsword using Paladin can remove a single hand off their weapon, cast, and place the hand back on their weapon. Its not a big deal.

[Millstone85]

I believe its already inferred in the ability, but the smaller arms can't utilize a shield. Just make that clear.

How much clearer than "You can’t wield a shield with a secondary arm" do you want them to be?

The small arms aren't dextrous enough to reload something.

The whole thing about hands free for components? That's nothing.

If the arms are dextrous enough for somatic and material components, they should be dextrous enough for reloading.

[jaappleton]

How much clearer than "You can’t wield a shield with a secondary arm" do you want them to be?

Full disclosure: I wasn't looking at the UA and I'm just now working on my first cup of coffee when I wrote that.

My bad, that's on me.

-----
EDIT:

You're all missing the biggest part of this UA. Seriously. Its borderline criminal that none of you have noticed it.

If you multiclass Wizard, then an Astral Elf while manifesting Astral Self can utilize the magic of Melf.

Very disappointed in you all that I had to be the one who brought this up.

[EggKookoo]

I mean I get it, being on the watch for power creep is a noble effort. I always think it needs to be tempered by reality, though.

Something to keep in mind is that WotC releases these UA specifically to get feedback about them. They're not presenting them as the final product. So it's valuable to assess them in various ways, including the impact on power creep.

[Millstone85]

If you multiclass Wizard, then an Astral Elf while manifesting Astral Self can utilize the magic of Melf.

Now they only need to find a big enough shelf.

[Zevox]

Thri-kreen wouldn't be thri-kreen without four arms. If having four arms allows for some very, very particular builds to be stronger than they are - I think that's fine.

Agreed. They've already ruled out the most obvious potential issues by restricting them to light weapons and no shields in the extra arms. I think what's left is fine. It's mostly better two-weapon fighting stuff, which is great since two-weapon fighting is kind of underwhelming this edition anyway; and being able to keep a hand free for spellcasting more easily is completely fine as well as far as I'm concerned. Hell, short of outright ruling that their extra hands can't be used for somatic components of spellcasting for some reason (which would be very odd and hard to justify in my mind), I don't see how that's avoidable with a four-armed race.

[jaappleton]

Agreed. They've already ruled out the most obvious potential issues by restricting them to light weapons and no shields in the extra arms. I think what's left is fine. It's mostly better two-weapon fighting stuff, which is great since two-weapon fighting is kind of underwhelming this edition anyway; and being able to keep a hand free for spellcasting more easily is completely fine as well as far as I'm concerned. Hell, short of outright ruling that their extra hands can't be used for somatic components of spellcasting for some reason (which would be very odd and hard to justify in my mind), I don't see how that's avoidable with a four-armed race.

In theory, as its presented with all the current information?

This is all correct.

But when you factor in other things which may never actually come to fruition....

Like how I know for a fact that somewhere in the vaults of unreleased, internally playtested 5e material, there is a feat for Three Weapon Fighting

These are things to worry about.

[Zevox]

In theory, as its presented with all the current information?

This is all correct.

But when you factor in other things which may never actually come to fruition....

Like how I know for a fact that somewhere in the vaults of unreleased, internally playtested 5e material, there is a feat for Three Weapon Fighting

These are things to worry about.

Without seeing what that feat does, I can't say that I know what there would be to worry about. Also, that seems like an odd feat to exist for anything besides a race with extra arms like the Thri-Kreen, since nobody else has a way to use three weapons at once.

[Millstone85]

Without seeing what that feat does, I can't say that I know what there would be to worry about. Also, that seems like an odd feat to exist for anything besides a race with extra arms like the Thri-Kreen, since nobody else has a way to use three weapons at once.

Says you!

[jaappleton]

Says you!

This may or may not be the exact inspiration of the feat.

EDIT:

FWIW, I don't believe the Feat was more than a hypothetical internal playtest. What would it break, etc. It IS written down somewhere in the vaults, but I question if it were ever supposed to be legitimately released.

[EggKookoo]

Like how I know for a fact that somewhere in the vaults of unreleased, internally playtested 5e material, there is a feat for Three Weapon Fighting

[werescythe]

I will also say that I feel underwhelmed by the Hadozee. Maybe if they were given a skill proficiency or two, or a ribbon ability (not that the glide isn't one already) would make it better.

While I don't outright hate the True Life ability for the Autognome, I won't lie and say that it doesn't feel like a cop out (though to be fair there aren't too many spells/abilities that heal constructs... so... yeah).

I don't know much about Giff, but I'll go ahead and say that even if their abilities are fairly powerful, I still feel that like the Hadozee it could use another proficiency or ribbon ability to make it feel better. Now I have heard it mentioned that the Giff appear to be more ranged due to their firearm usage so maybe have Damage Dealer also work for ranged weapons.

And like I already said for the Plasmoid, I feel that they should be able to use their pseudopods from the Shape Self ability, for unarmed strikes and that it should deal acid damage.

[Sigreid]

Says you!

Clearly 3 weapon fighting is the province of jugglers!!

[Amnestic]

In addition to adding lots more elves they should also add lots more tieflings.

Right now we've got a lot of different hellish bloodlines for human tieflings, now we need different mortal stock: Orc tiefling, elf tiefling (duh, obviously), halfling tiefling, gnome tiefling, aasimar tiefling (and its counterpart, tiefling aasimar which are different)...the options are many.

[Ralanr]

In addition to adding lots more elves they should also add lots more tieflings.

Right now we've got a lot of different hellish bloodlines for human tieflings, now we need different mortal stock: Orc tiefling, elf tiefling (duh, obviously), halfling tiefling, gnome tiefling, aasimar tiefling (and its counterpart, tiefling aasimar which are different)...the options are many.

Yes because if anything tieflings need, it's more options.

[Millstone85]

we need different mortal stock

That or aasimar, tieflings, genasi and other planetouched could be given something like the Ancestral Legacy trait from Van Richsten's lineages, letting them borrow traits from other races. Or they could straight-up become templates.

aasimar tiefling (and its counterpart, tiefling aasimar which are different)

Or the aasiefling, which is the child of a mortal and a half-celestial/half-fiend.

I actually know of a half-celestial/half-fiend, the "concordant killer" from the 3.5 MM4.


Art by Nevitan

[sandmote]

I don't see it mentioned, but I think its is odd that the Plasmoids get Hold Breath but the Giff don't.

---

Other thoughts:

Spells that d&d beyond classifies as "healing" that can't heal the Autognome: Heal, Healing Spirit, Mass Cure Wounds, Mass Heal, Mass Healing Word, Power Word Heal, Prayer of Healing Reincarnate. Not an awful list, but it could maybe be expanded to include some of the higher level spells; otherwise the autognome scales very poorly.

While I like racial features to include the proficiency bonus in theory, Built For Success feels too flexible. I significantly prefer the focus that Tireless Precision has. I take issue with Trance Proficiencies for similar reasons.

For the Giff, I guess a "camaraderie" or "follow orders" effect would violate the rule against cultural features. Maybe they could get some sort of bonus healing that is technically biological but can easily be fluffed as drinking a cup of tea?

I'd have slapped Acrobatics proficiency on the Hadozee, at least as a placeholder. Possibly also the Giff, based on some of their lore; the anti-synergy with Hippo Build would keep it weak.

I don't mind non-humanoid races, but I'd rather use some of the weaker types. There's plenty of abjuration spells targeting celestials, elementals, fey, and fiends while these healing restrictions on constructs and undead. Oozes and Monstrosities are two of the more severe buffs. Although I suppose I've written other effects in the same vein (don't know if I've left any in though).

[Arkhios]

Probably brought up already, but I feel this might be a nod back to their previously hinted two classic settings returning: Spelljammer AND DARK SUN! (if I'm not mistaken, thri-kreen was originally indigenous to Athas)

[EggKookoo]

Probably brought up already, but I feel this might be a nod back to their previously hinted two classic settings returning: Spelljammer AND DARK SUN! (if I'm not mistaken, thri-kreen was originally indigenous to Athas)

As well as a couple direct nods to Star Frontiers. It would have been cool to see some vrusk in there, but I guess they're thematically (and somewhat physically) similar to the thri-kreen.

[Bobthewizard]

from my perspective, the proper way to abuse thri-kreens is not heavy weapons at all. it is a ranged build. heavy crossbow in a primary and secondary, shield in another primary, hand crossbow (which is a light weapon) in a secondary (with the same secondary that is used to reload the heavy crossbow being used to reload the hand crossbow; letting go of a two-handed weapon with one hand doesn't cost any actions). sharpshooter and crossbow expert are to be used with this, of course.

because after all, who *wasn't* thinking "we should make the most powerful ranged builds even better", right?

This doesn't work. You'd be wielding the weapon in both of those hands, and the secondary one can't wield non-light weapons.

On the one hand, it's good that they can't wield both a heavy crossbow and a hand crossbow at the same time. On the other hand, they can still wield two hand crossbows and a shield while maintaining a free primary hand.[/COLOR]

No I’m pretty sure they could wield both.

Heavy in the primary hands. Hand crossbow in one secondary hand. Free hand to reload.

By RAW...
Indeed. It's an increase from 1d6 to 1d10 for your main attacks, an increase of probably about 3 DPR—2 DPR if using Sharpshooter.

All told, the best case scenario is TWF or CBE. You essentially get +2 AC with few (if any) compromises. When trying to maximize damage, though, you can't really do a whole lot to increase DPR.

Heavy crossbow and hand crossbow can't be used at the same time. Edit: Heavy crossbow can't be used to trigger the bonus action attack, but can be used for other attacks. Thanks Diplomancer. A heavy crossbow is a two-handed, ranged weapon and so does not qualify to trigger the bonus action attack for two-weapon fighting, crossbow expert, or even dual wielding.

From two weapon fighting "When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon"

From crossbow expert "When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon"

From dual wielder feat "You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one handed melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light."

Thri-Kreen is still pretty powerful though, allowing a shield and free hand for components while two-weapon fighting or using a hand crossbow.

[diplomancer]

Heavy crossbow and hand crossbow can't be used at the same time. A heavy crossbow is a two-handed, ranged weapon and so does not qualify to trigger the bonus action attack for two-weapon fighting, crossbow expert, or even dual wielding.

From two weapon fighting "When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon"

From crossbow expert "When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon"

From dual wielder feat "You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one handed melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light."

Thri-Kreen is still pretty powerful though, allowing a shield and free hand for components while two-weapon fighting or using a hand crossbow.

This means that, to activate crossbow expert, at least one of the shots of the attack action would have to come from the hand crossbow (or from some hypothetical 3rd, one-handed, weapon, though this will pretty always be less optimal than just using the hand crossbow, except if magic items are involved)); but nothing stops an 11th level fighter shooting twice with the heavy crossbow, once with the hand crossbow (3 attacks of the Attack action) and then one more time with the hand crossbow as a bonus action.

[Bobthewizard]

This means that, to activate crossbow expert, at least one of the shots of the attack action would have to come from the hand crossbow (or from some hypothetical 3rd, one-handed, weapon, though this will pretty always be less optimal than just using the hand crossbow, except if magic items are involved)); but nothing stops an 11th level fighter shooting twice with the heavy crossbow, once with the hand crossbow (3 attacks of the Attack action) and then one more time with the hand crossbow as a bonus action.

That's correct. I don't get to level 11 much. But even at level 5, you could make one of the attacks with the heavy crossbow. I'm not sure that's worth giving up the shield, especially before level 11.

I'll edit my post above.

[Sigreid]

Thri Kreen isn't that big of a deal, with some small adjustments.

I believe its already inferred in the ability, but the smaller arms can't utilize a shield. Just make that clear.
The small arms aren't dextrous enough to reload something.

The whole thing about hands free for components? That's nothing. A greatsword using Paladin can remove a single hand off their weapon, cast, and place the hand back on their weapon. Its not a big deal.

I would assume that it's more they aren't strong enough for a shield. I mean, they can use only finess weapons which to me says they're the fine work arms but without a lot of strength.

[jaappleton]

Probably brought up already, but I feel this might be a nod back to their previously hinted two classic settings returning: Spelljammer AND DARK SUN! (if I'm not mistaken, thri-kreen was originally indigenous to Athas)

From what I have heard

Dark Sun isn't currently being worked on.

Don't confuse that for there not being any plans for it at all, however.

[Amnestic]

Yes because if anything tieflings need, it's more options.

Ah you see, that's the genius of it, we put the options under the other races so they're not "tiefling" options, they're "halfling," "gnome", "dwarf" options.

That just happen to all be hellish planetouched tieflings-in-everything-but-name.

They'll never figure out such a devilish trick.

[Arkhios]

From what I have heard

Dark Sun isn't currently being worked on.

Don't confuse that for there not being any plans for it at all, however.

I mean, sure, just because a race from a specific setting appears in this article doesn't have to mean that they're all going to be released right away.

IIRC, the first UA article had both genasi and warforged and they ended up being released several years apart.

And, FWIW, I believe thri-kreen have been included in several other settings since the Dark Sun, and they could certainly fit in any setting very well.

My guess, however, is that all these might appear in the new Mordenkainen's Masters of the Multiverse or whatever it was called, showcasing races from several different worlds.

[Tawmis]

I mean, sure, just because a race from a specific setting appears in this article doesn't have to mean that they're all going to be released right away.
IIRC, the first UA article had both genasi and warforged and they ended up being released several years apart.
And, FWIW, I believe thri-kreen have been included in several other settings since the Dark Sun, and they could certainly fit in any setting very well.
My guess, however, is that all these might appear in the new Mordenkainen's Masters of the Multiverse or whatever it was called, showcasing races from several different worlds.

Man, it'd be a DREAM if they went as far as including some races from STAR FRONTIERS - like the Drasalite, Vrusk and Yarzarians.

EDIT -

As well as a couple direct nods to Star Frontiers. It would have been cool to see some vrusk in there, but I guess they're thematically (and somewhat physically) similar to the thri-kreen.

Just saw your post. Glad to see others who haven't forgotten STAR FRONTIERS.