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Thread: Origin vs specialty
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2021-10-11, 11:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
Origin vs specialty
So I was taking a look at subclasses and I noticed that they fall into two distinct categories. First there are origin subclasses, those that describe how you got your powers or class. The sorcerer and warlock, in some ways the cleric fall into this. Next there is the specialty subclasses those that indicate a character specializing in sobering through training. Warlocks are in an odd place that the pact bon is almost intended to provide a specially on top of their training.
My thought was to take this even further. Give every class an origin they can choose at level one that gives abilities throughout. Then a signature class ability at level 2. Then their subclass specialty starting at level 3. What do you guys think of this?
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2021-10-11, 11:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2016
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Re: Origin vs specialty
Seems like what you want is more teeth to the background system.
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2021-10-11, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
Re: Origin vs specialty
Not quite. The background is what you were doing before your class. I'm thinking of the origin as what have you your class. For example with a sorcerer their draconic origin is what made them a sorcerer
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2021-10-12, 12:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2015
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Re: Origin vs specialty
I like the concept, but what would be, for example, a sorcerous specialty?
Best I can think of is having the sorcerer martial up, or staying a pure spellcaster.
Or gaining a familiar, to worsen the thematic conflict with the warlock.
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2021-10-12, 03:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
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2021-10-12, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Origin vs specialty
Not much, the whole first three levels structure is uneven, for what appear to be narrative reasons. By level 3 each class has added some things.
Here's my suggestion to you: start your games at level 3. problem goes away. The first two levels are "training wheels" levels to a great extent to get people new to the game easily inserted into it.
(With the notable exception IME of the prepared spell casters).Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-10-12, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
Re: Origin vs specialty
I mean it's not about just the first three levels though. Functionally both the origin and specialty should provide abilities as you level up. Kinda like with warlocks how there are additional invocations to enhance the pact boon as they level up. I see it as the origin providing thematic abilities and the specialty providing a mechanical play style. The two subclasses would allow you to better define your character.
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2021-10-12, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
Re: Origin vs specialty
I can see how this would work for some classes, but other's I'm a bit more confused on.
So, for example Barbarian. I actually think would be remarkably easy.
Origins: Pure Wrath, War Ritual, Drugs, Shaman Spirits, Demonic Possession, Lycanthropy could all be adequate ways of describing how a barbarian got their rage. While Big Numbers Brute, Whirling Dervish, Unstoppable Juggernaut could all be specialties.
But others like Paladin have far more emphasis placed on just their tenets. These oaths should by their nature reflect both their origin and their specialty, since taking up an oath is the origin of their power, while upholding those oaths should reflect what mechanical powers they have. It'd be really weird if the Oath of Devotion origin got attached to the Murder Everything and Intimidate them specialty set.
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2021-10-12, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: Origin vs specialty
If I were doing paladin, I would probably have origin be the nature of your powers. Some paladins bring holy light, some nature's wrath, some corrupt their surroundings. The specialties would be their oaths. Some combinations would be very weird, but it's up to the DM to require players to have an actual story to their character or not.
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2021-10-13, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Origin vs specialty
Should? Hardly, it works as is. Your opinion is noted, but your assertion is rejected.
Early on in this edition I was a little puzzled with how unevenly the PC progression comes on line for different classes. Until I embraced "We made this edition easy to learn for the first few levels" point, and it really sank in as I played with some new players, (I've been playing for a long time) I didn't see the "why" of their decisions.
I now understand it.
Personal preference: with experienced players, I prefer to start at level 2 or 3 due to the swinginess of a d20 at level 1 and they are capable of handling more tools.Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-10-13 at 07:30 AM.
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-10-15, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: Origin vs specialty
Warlocks. You are describing Warlock's Pact vs Boons. Not a surprise, though - outside of the headache of balance and ensuring you don't end up with a Hexblade/Blade Pact situation, it's a clever design. With three classes and three each of first and third level subclass, you get 3x3x3 possible combinations. Even Warrior/Mage/Thief suddenly has more options than the PHB came with with only three core classes.
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2021-10-15, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
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2021-10-15, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2016
Re: Origin vs specialty
The "should" part was clarifying my initial post, not adding an additional argument. If you would like to offer some counterpoints as to why this is a bad idea that would be useful. I was simply trying to dissuade you from arguing the structure of the first 3 levels further. I understand how they work now and frankly don't really care about them. It was just an example of how the proposed ideas of what amounts to 2 separate subclass choices per class could work based on the existing structure.
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2021-10-15, 07:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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- Burbank CA
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Re: Origin vs specialty
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude... seeming to be true within the context of the game world.
"D&D does not have SECRET rules that can only be revealed by meticulous deconstruction of words and grammar. There is only the unclear rules prose that makes people think there are secret rules to be revealed."
Consistency between games and tables is but the dream of a madman - Mastikator