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Thread: I have news.

  1. - Top - End - #121
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hytheter View Post
    Can confirm.
    Who said that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    Random generation of planes (which I guess fill an ever expanding multiverse that is at present mostly an ever expanding void) is an amusing idea that, once we peel back the onion, leads to absurdities like the demi plane of ranch dressing. One of the things about the abyss and its' 666 layers is that not each of them needs to be a plane. (Likewise with the layers of hell).
    It's a fine idea in its own right, but the relevant section of that book provides there are multiple Primes separated from one another by the Ethereal, which is inconsistent with earlier and later source material. I wouldn't give that section much credence.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendin, probably
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    A spelljammer still has to reach the inner surface of a crystal sphere before it can dive into the phlogiston.

    According to this wiki, "The crystal shell of Realmspace had a radius of 3.2 billion miles (5.15 billion km)". At 90 miles per hour, the Scavenger would need thousands of years to take the first step on its interspherical journey.

    Maybe it is just a ****ty spelljamming vessel. Others have to be more potent, and very distinct from astral ships, if we are to believe this part of the DotMM adventure, page 220:
    Spoiler: Stardock as a stronghold.
    Show
    The characters can secure Stardock as a base once the githyanki, dragons, and mind flayers are no longer threats. The asteroid is a quiet place most of the time, far removed from the perils and politics of Toril. The peace is interrupted every month or so by the arrival of a spelljamming vessel bearing provisions gathered from far-flung worlds. Such a vessel might be crewed by githyanki, gnomes, or some other spacefaring race.

    About once a year, a githyanki-crewed astral ship delivers young githyanki to the creche. A githyanki astral ship doesn't travel through space but rather shifts in and out of the Astral Plane, appearing literally out of nowhere next to the asteroid's dock and disappearing back into the silvery void once its delivery is complete. If the githyanki discover that Creche K'liir has fallen, they retreat to the Astral Plane and return in short order with an overwhelming force to recapture the asteroid.

    But really, shouldn't a spelljammer's movement through space, where there is no air to slow it down, be expressed in terms of acceleration instead of speed? And no, I don't think I am entering catgirl-smiting territory by asking that.

    "I am here live. I am not a mindwitness."
    As Insaid in anotjer post in this thread, the two most likely explabations are that either a) the Helm grants that speed when put on any random ship, but when paired with a spelljammer as it is supposed to be it goes much faster (and the writer didn't mention that becsuse they thought it was unlikely the PCs would salvage the actual spelljammer but still wanted the Helm to be a fun item to find) or b) the writer forgot that space big or messed up the speed (which isn't an indicator that all spelljammers for 5e will have that same mistake).

    The Scave ger managed to go from the edge of the Crystal Sphere to Toril's orbit without its orog crew members dying of old age, so it's clear the ship is supposed to move faster than a car through Realmspace.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    As Insaid in anotjer post in this thread, the two most likely explabations are that either a) the Helm grants that speed when put on any random ship, but when paired with a spelljammer as it is supposed to be it goes much faster (and the writer didn't mention that becsuse they thought it was unlikely the PCs would salvage the actual spelljammer but still wanted the Helm to be a fun item to find) or b) the writer forgot that space big or messed up the speed (which isn't an indicator that all spelljammers for 5e will have that same mistake).

    The Scave ger managed to go from the edge of the Crystal Sphere to Toril's orbit without its orog crew members dying of old age, so it's clear the ship is supposed to move faster than a car through Realmspace.
    I mean, I suppose it is *possible* that neither the writer nor the editor nor anyone on the dev team were familiar with spelljammer as it existed in 2nd edition at all, and were chosen to write rules for a spelljamming ship that completely disregard the existence of spelljamming speeds, and ignoring everything about the nature of wildspace, and that the rules they wrote coincidentally would work well with interplanar travel but not with actual spelljamming.

    it is also possible that their frequent references that suggest that their primary source was the spelljammer item entry in 4th edition are purely coincidental (stuff like your assumption about needing a special ship, for example, which is not even remotely how spelljamming helms work in 2nd edition but is *exactly* how 4th edition handled it... the ship was the item, not the helm)

    but that seems like a rather large stretch to me.

    it seems far more plausible that the fact that they are taking people who evidently don't know anything about 2nd edition spelljammer and write as if the 4th edition source was their main source of information is that they don't particularly plan to draw from the 2nd edition setting and are more inclined towards building something based on whatever they were thinking about when they did the 4th edition writeup.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    Who said that?
    I actually had an avatar long ago but I don't know what happened to it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EggKookoo View Post
    I just assume everyone here looks like their avatar.
    I can assure you I am not Jefferson Twilight from the criminally underrated Venture Bros cartoon.

    If you're on desktop, anyway. Mobile one is a bald red wizard guy. Which I'm also not.
    Last edited by jaappleton; 2021-10-14 at 12:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I can assure you I am not Jefferson Twilight from the criminally underrated Venture Bros cartoon.

    If you're on desktop, anyway. Mobile one is a bald red wizard guy. Which I'm also not.
    My entire perception is a lie!
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    For some reason this feels really fitting; I got a mental image of a bunch of psions setting up a LAN party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    I can assure you I am not Jefferson Twilight from the criminally underrated Venture Bros cartoon.
    Why must you crush my hopes and dreams so?
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendin, probably
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaappleton View Post
    News and leaks I get is ever evolving.

    We all saw the recent Unearthed Arcana.

    Dark Sun exists inside Spelljammer, though not necessarily how you might think.

    I can't say anything beyond that, because there's nothing else I've been told.

    Insert Charlie_Day_Conspiracy.gif
    Dark Sun is inside a product that contains Spelljammer and Planescape elements and the UA they released contains Star Frontiers races.... That's kind of interesting and points towards.... honestly, I'm not sure.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjordan View Post
    Dark Sun is inside a product that contains Spelljammer and Planescape elements and the UA they released contains Star Frontiers races.... That's kind of interesting and points towards.... honestly, I'm not sure.
    Sounds like a single all-encompassing 'multiverse' book to me. Which will probably not please fans of the individual portions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hytheter View Post
    Sounds like a single all-encompassing 'multiverse' book to me. Which will probably not please fans of the individual portions.
    no offense to the fans of those settings but I don't think they were going to be pleased regardless of what happened.

    Fortunately it is easy to port stuff over from older editions.
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  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjordan View Post
    Dark Sun is inside a product that contains Spelljammer and Planescape elements and the UA they released contains Star Frontiers races.... That's kind of interesting and points towards.... honestly, I'm not sure.
    oh, those aren't star frontiers races...

    they're shameless ripoffs (or to describe it more generously "tributes to") the star frontiers races that are also actual races in spelljammer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    oh, those aren't star frontiers races...

    they're shameless ripoffs (or to describe it more generously "tributes to") the star frontiers races that are also actual races in spelljammer.
    That would explain why the Giff feels like basically hippofolk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CNagy View Post
    For some reason this feels really fitting; I got a mental image of a bunch of psions setting up a LAN party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hytheter View Post
    Sounds like a single all-encompassing 'multiverse' book to me. Which will probably not please fans of the individual portions.
    What I demand from a Planescape book:
    • more lenghty descriptions of the Outer Planes, at least compared to those in the DMG.
    • special emphasis on the Outlands where celestials, fiends, modrons and slaadi interact.
    • a map of Sigil and guidelines for PCs opposing, helping, or joining each of the Factions.

    What I demand from a Spelljammer book:
    • a description of the Material Plane with wildspace, crystal spheres and the phlogiston.
    • general rules for spelljamming vessels, and maps for a few of the most memorable.
    • overviews of three famous crystal spheres: Greyspace, Krynnspace and Realmspace.

    Thematically, I think it would be great to have all that inside a single "multiverse" book.
    But obviously, each part would likely be shorter for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SharkForce View Post
    they're shameless ripoffs (or to describe it more generously "tributes to") the star frontiers races that are also actual races in spelljammer.
    Can one rip oneself off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    What I demand from a Spelljammer book:
    • a description of the Material Plane with wildspace, crystal spheres and the phlogiston.
    • general rules for spelljamming vessels, and maps for a few of the most memorable.
    • overviews of three famous crystal spheres: Greyspace, Krynnspace and Realmspace.
    If we could remove Krynnspace from your list, I'd not mind signing up for this, but The Far Realms where the Great Old Ones are/were need more love, so maybe add that to your wish list?
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    I love the idea of D&D in space. Having looked into the Spelljammer material... it is bonkers. The aesthetic is not exactly hitting the right spots for me (not sure why every ship has to look like an animal or insect), but I'm excited to see Spelljammer stuff for 5E.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    I love the idea of D&D in space. Having looked into the Spelljammer material... it is bonkers. The aesthetic is not exactly hitting the right spots for me (not sure why every ship has to look like an animal or insect), but I'm excited to see Spelljammer stuff for 5E.
    I never played the original Spelljammer stuff, but from what I've read about it, I think the weird ships mostly belong to "alien" races. The stuff an adventuring party is supposed to get their hands on is meant to look more like classic sailing vessels. But I don't know how valid that assumption is without having played it. I'm curious how they'll present it for the modern game.

    I'm totally wanting Treasure Planet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    If we could remove Krynnspace from your list, I'd not mind signing up for this, ...
    Wouldn't want the tinker gnomes and kender getting loose, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Samurai View Post
    The aesthetic is not exactly hitting the right spots for me (not sure why every ship has to look like an animal or insect)
    That's not really the case, there's definitely an insect theming for some ships, but there are many others too. Gnomes use sidewheelers, dwarves have big citadel/forge/shrine things, the elves grow their ships like plants, many humans base their designs on sailing ships, etc. Liches tend to favor tomb ships ("flying pyramids"), and there's even more niche stuff out there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    Wouldn't want the tinker gnomes and kender getting loose, after all.
    Too late for that, Tinker's were were among the first to make it to the moon iirc.

    Edit, now there's an adventure idea. Tinker gnomes are about to descend upon your planet, only you can stop them.
    Last edited by Brookshw; 2021-10-15 at 10:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendin, probably
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookshw View Post
    Too late for that, Tinker's were were among the first to make it to the moon iirc.

    Edit, now there's an adventure idea. Tinker gnomes are about to descend upon your planet, only you can stop them.
    Take off and nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

    OR

    We had to destroy the planet to save it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millstone85 View Post
    [*]overviews of three famous crystal spheres: Greyspace, Krynnspace and Realmspace.
    The 'Radiant Triangle'. I'd also like a broader view of Lesser Arcane Space, Greater Arcane Space, and the Astromundi Cluster

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    If we could remove Krynnspace from your list, I'd not mind signing up for this, but The Far Realms where the Great Old Ones are/were need more love, so maybe add that to your wish list?
    Thematically the Far Realm isn't comprehensible enough to say much about... It doesn't have 'places', most inhabitants are random nonsense, no one survives going there for long, and there is no such thing as a 'typical' portal/blot/etc... A good Aberration monster list of common denizens is good, but not a lot of use really detailing it as a 'location'
    Last edited by Naanomi; 2021-10-15 at 10:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixPhyre View Post
    Take off and nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
    I wish we had a like button .
    Quote Originally Posted by jedipotter View Post
    Logic just does not fit in with the real world. And only the guilty throw fallacy's around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vendin, probably
    As always, the planes prove to be awesomer than I expected.
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  25. - Top - End - #145
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    it is fair to say that not *every* ship is shaped like an animal or insect in spelljammer


    but it is also absolutely fair to say that most of them are. including the human ships. oh, you can totally fly around in a regular galleon if you want, but... as spelljamming ships go, they're terrible. they have absolutely abysmal manoeuvrability, and they require a lot of crew just to maintain that.

    it is of course possible to homebrew your way out of that, but by default it is very reasonable to describe the setting such that "every ship has to look like an animal or insect" (with the understanding that there is a bit of hyperbole in that statement).

    if that bothers you, I can definitely see that being a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    If we could remove Krynnspace from your list, I'd not mind signing up for this, but The Far Realms where the Great Old Ones are/were need more love, so maybe add that to your wish list?
    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    Thematically the Far Realm isn't comprehensible enough to say much about... It doesn't have 'places', most inhabitants are random nonsense, no one survives going there for long, and there is no such thing as a 'typical' portal/blot/etc... A good Aberration monster list of common denizens is good, but not a lot of use really detailing it as a 'location'
    So instead, I would look for Far Realm adjacent locations.

    On the Spelljammer side, there is the neogi. They are the ones who build spidery ships, and their entry in VGtM claims that...
    Quote Originally Posted by VGtM p179, Neogi
    Some neogi use magic---the result of a pact between the neogi and aberrant entities they met during their journey from their home world. These entities look like stars and embody the essence of evil. They are known by such names as Acamar, Caiphon, Gibbeth, and Hadar.
    These names are from 4e, where the equivalent of the GOOlock was described in these terms...
    Quote Originally Posted by 4e PHB p131, Star Pact
    You have mastered the astrologer’s art, learning the secret names of the stars and gazing into the Far Realm beyond, gaining great power thereby. You can call upon powers that madden or terrify your enemies, manipulate chance and fate, or scour your foes with icy banes and curses drawn from beyond the night sky.
    I would love for 5e to more deeply revisit that concept, especially in a Spelljammer context. Living stars that are also living portals to the Far Realm, like oh wow! Obviously, you wouldn't be able to see them from one crystal sphere to another, except when you suddenly can because the star has moved itself to your firmament, like a virus on a cell membrane.

    On the Planescape side, there is the Hinterlands, the border of the Outlands beyond the gate-towns. No matter how far you walk into the Hinterlands, turning around quickly brings you back near a gate-town. But the farther you walk, the stranger your environment becomes, conjuring all sorts of alien locations. Now, if the Outlands is, as the DMG puts it, "a microcosm of the planes", with a circle of gate-towns standing for the Outer Planes, then wouldn't the Hinterlands reflect what lies outside the Great Wheel?

    There is also an interpretation of the Hinterlands as just a perilous walk from the Outlands to the Outer Planes, but I find that less interesting.

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    There is a location in Spelljammer called the... ?great wound? It is on some of the maps... That is basically a black hole + portal to the far realm; supposedly the first contact between the Great Wheel and that place, made when a Draeden refused to surrender with his brethren and chewed a hole in reality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naanomi View Post
    There is a location in Spelljammer called the... ?great wound? It is on some of the maps... That is basically a black hole + portal to the far realm; supposedly the first contact between the Great Wheel and that place, made when a Draeden refused to surrender with his brethren and chewed a hole in reality
    One of 4e's aberrant stars was also described as a black hole. Surprisingly, it wasn't Hadar, despite already having a spell named after its hunger. Instead, it was Acamar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Going through the Astral has been an alternative to spelljamming since a long time, though. That's always been how the Githyanki did it, unless I'm mistaken.
    Yes, gith use planar travel to reach worlds connected though the Astral plane, there is a lore blurb that the did a wide scale raid of Athas, they fled screaming and banned all travel to the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witty Username View Post
    Yes, gith use planar travel to reach worlds connected though the Astral plane, there is a lore blurb that the did a wide scale raid of Athas, they fled screaming and banned all travel to the world.
    There is an adventure path dealing with the degenerate mutant offspring of the survivors of that attempt

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