Upick 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Fext]

am I stupid or is bookwombat explicitly claiming non-town too

[Fext]

okay yeah he is

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so I'm calling that read a win even if he ends up being just a survivor and not specifically the sk

still we can find out for sure

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also Eidolon is a great pick for a Upick

[Elenna]

It's also kind of missing the point. My post wasn't about trying to steal credit for being the first person to mention the theory out loud, because that credit is worthless.

This.

(Also, if we are talking about credit, pretty sure I mentioned 'the sk was super powerful last game' mid D1, shortly after AV and Fext claimed. But also, yeah, it doesn't really matter who said it first.)

[Rogan]

am I stupid or is bookwombat explicitly claiming non-town too

Let me recap:

Fext, AV and Book claim neutral (goodish).
Cao was Wolf.
There probably are 2-3 wolves left.
There is 1 SK.

16 players at start
That's 12 non-neutral.
Worst case 8 Town.

[Metastachydium]

Also I'm liking the idea that one of them might be mafia, but not lying about anti-SK abilities/roles. Mafia wants them dead to right?

Okay, the idea that the easiest way to kill the serial killer is mafia and town working together as a big happy family is FUN.

Another interpretation would be that AV and Fext have the same power because one of them has a list of the powers of other players and can use each of them once. This would be really powerful, but it might be possible.

I think there was a role like that in Upick 1. They could assume the powers of any player indefinitely or something like that, found a dayvig/seer power combo at the first try and stuck with it all the way.

[Rogan]

Please check my recap for mistakes.

[Metastachydium]

This.

(Also, if we are talking about credit, pretty sure I mentioned 'the sk was super powerful last game' mid D1, shortly after AV and Fext claimed. But also, yeah, it doesn't really matter who said it first.)

If the phrase "before it was mainstream" doesn't serve as a skill prompt for Sense Bad Joke checks, I'll openly admit that I'm doing something wrong.

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Let me recap:

Fext, AV and Book claim neutral (goodish).
Cao was Wolf.
There probably are 2-3 wolves left.
There is 1 SK.

16 players at start
That's 12 non-neutral.
Worst case 8 Town.

Fext and AV never actually said they are neutrals, though.

[Snowblaze]

I don't think either AV or Fext are explicitly claiming neutral?

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Meta is a ninja.

[Rogan]

Fext and AV never actually said they are neutrals, though.

AV said she wasn't Anti SK, which I assumed to mean she can win even with a living SK. Which would make sense for a neutral.

I think Fext meant to say he was neutral when he said book also claims neutral.

Both interpretations could be wrong.

[Snowblaze]

Okay, let's do this the easy way.
@AvatarVecna
@Fext
Are you neutral, yes or no?

[Batcathat]

AV said she wasn't Anti SK, which I assumed to mean she can win even with a living SK. Which would make sense for a neutral.

I think AV meant that their role wasn't specifically anti-SK (as Fext is claiming), not saying anything about their wincon.

[moonfly7]

Let me recap:

Fext, AV and Book claim neutral (goodish).
Cao was Wolf.
There probably are 2-3 wolves left.
There is 1 SK.

16 players at start
That's 12 non-neutral.
Worst case 8 Town.

Still not liking the immediate "Only 1 SK" just because it's not traditional or never happened doesn't mean we couldn't be looking at another. Or worse, a third hostile role not working with the other 2. Not saying it's likely but I don't like ruling out any possibilities ever, especially since everyone whose played before seems to be using tradition and whats happened before as a guide, and that feels like a mistake.

[Captain Cap]

Captain Cap... Captain Cap is my confused read rn. My initial reaction to his vote for me was to hard wolfread it, and even having toned down the OMGUS and "but the thought process makes no sense!"

Well, you're not wrong. That's what happens when the vulgus (3 people at least) demand you to take a stance in a matter you don't have a stance. I mean, my justification was more a "I guess he looks a bit townier than her" (it didn't age well, I know) than a "She's a wolf".

[Snowblaze]

Still not liking the immediate "Only 2 SK" just because it's not traditional or never happened doesn't mean we couldn't be looking at another. Or worse, a third hostile role not working with the other 2. Not saying it's likely but I don't like ruling out any possibilities ever, especially since everyone whose played before seems to be using tradition and whats happened before as a guide, and that feels like a mistake.

Didn't AV say part of their role referred to the Serial Killer? As in, only one of them?

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I kind of get that, Captain Cap. But can you explain how you got from here:

To be fair I specified "good reasons". Despite your work to go lead after lead, you still don't make more compelling arguments than the ones Snowblaze has against you.

To here:

That's wise.

In the end I'll go with Snowblaze. Between Cao and her she's been the most aggressive one with the first real lynching push, at the same time without a strong case at her side. Moreover, the fact Cao resisted relatively well to the pressure and read Snowblaze as town, basically renouncing at the possibility of getting on Snow's wagon without raising suspicions and thus decreasing his survival chances, would make a decent case for towniness, better than the ones for Snowblaze in my opinion.

Of course, the fact Cao has the really good habit to keep track of the votes has absolutely no weight in my decision.

with only one post in between?

[Rogan]

I think AV meant that their role wasn't specifically anti-SK (as Fext is claiming), not saying anything about their wincon.

Possible, sure. But let's wait for the answer to Snows question:

Okay, let's do this the easy way.
@AvatarVecna
@Fext
Are you neutral, yes or no?

Still not liking the immediate "Only 2 SK" just because it's not traditional or never happened doesn't mean we couldn't be looking at another. Or worse, a third hostile role not working with the other 2. Not saying it's likely but I don't like ruling out any possibilities ever, especially since everyone whose played before seems to be using tradition and whats happened before as a guide, and that feels like a mistake.

I won't stop you from formulating your own guesses. They are as good as mine at this point.

[Metastachydium]

Didn't AV say part of their role referred to the Serial Killer? As in, only one of them?

Fext definitely did:

yeah I have no hints

I just know they exist since they're mentioned specifically as "the Serial Killer"

[Snowblaze]

Yeah, that's probably the quote I'm thinking of. Now I'm going to actually read this stuff so I know what I'm talking about.

[Captain Cap]

I kind of get that, Captain Cap. But can you explain how you got from here:

To here:

with only one post in between?

Through this:

But given there are already two players encouraging me to take a stance, before the day ends I'll read once again all the relevant posts and decide where to put my final vote.

[Snowblaze]

But that occurred before both of the posts I quoted.

[AvatarVecna]

Yes Rogan. I can win with the role who only wins if everybody else is dead. You got it in one.

debate about whether "the serial killer" implies there's only one.

This is the kinda persnickety arguing over wordplay that makes mechanical games unfun. I have no idea if there's zero SKs, one SK, fourteen SKs, or whatever. I just have a power that only works on SKs, and I think it would be a **** move on the narrator's part to give me a literally useless ability.

[Captain Cap]

But that occurred before both of the posts I quoted.

I thought you meant how I went from "no stance" to a stance. That specific message was only an answer to a criticism from CaohminTheCape I saw just after posting the message I quoted, it wasn't about you vs him.

[Snowblaze]

To clarify: I don't actually think Captain Cap is a wolf, I think I mentioned in my gac3 ISO that seeing Caoimhin's vote for him made me feel a lot better about him. I just want to try and get a bit more certainty on that read.

[AvatarVecna]

I'm town and I have no idea why people are insisting that I'm neutral. "Well one role that mentioned SK was neutral, so all of them must be". That's a crap argument and you know it.

During the DAY, you may type PULL THE LEVER: [ONE PLAYER’S NAME]. If the named player is the Serial Killer, they die.

Leaves out the fluff text, but that's the mechanical effect of the power in question.

[Book Wombat]

I just have a power that only works on SKs, and I think it would be a **** move on the narrator's part to give me a literally useless ability.

Takes notes.

[Snowblaze]

I thought you meant how I went from "no stance" to a stance. That specific message was only an answer to a criticism from CaohminTheCape I saw just after posting the message I quoted, it wasn't about you vs him.

I interpreted the first post as being kind of anti-Caoimhin.

I'm probably just nitpicking here, we have a fair bit of playstyle difference.

[Captain Cap]

I interpreted the first post as being kind of anti-Caoimhin.

Let's say it was anti-"Caoimhin's line of reasoning".

[Book Wombat]

During the DAY, you may type PULL THE LEVER: [ONE PLAYER’S NAME]. If the named player is the Serial Killer, they die.

Doesn't seem too bad honestly unless there's a hard limit on the number of uses. Also kind of funny in how it's similar to your DISINTEGRATE power last UPick.

[AvatarVecna]

Doesn't seem too bad honestly unless there's a hard limit on the number of uses. Also kind of funny in how it's similar to your DISINTEGRATE power last UPick.

Correct on both counts.

[Snowblaze]

Also I think the SK discussion isn't really that productive atp. About the only thing we know is "a Serial Killer exists" and however scarily powerful they may be, I'd still rather hunt wolves. They're easier to find.

[Captain Cap]

I'm still catching up with this matter about Neutrals/Serial Killers/Survivors, but I feel it has been missed my power also mentions them:

Also, from the way my power is worded there might be a Serial Killer and a Survivor among us.

More precisely the wordings are "a Serial Killer", "a Survivor".

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Although they're not really a key component of my role.