Upick 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Fext]

Listen Fext, up until you flat up admitted to lying about your role nobody has had a solid idea of who to vote for. I was on Caps wagon, but there wasn't as much evidence as I would have liked. Just about everybody was going on hunches, and then you came out and said "oh by the way, that thing that we have debated about for pages, the main problem we were having with the SK being that their are at least 2 anti-SK abilities? Yeah I made it up."

So no, we aren't just killing people who are liars, but the fact that you came out about that when we don't have any better leads, and that you literally derailed multiple strands of investigation across a whole night and day with said lies, is the issue. You can't tell me that that doesn't look susupicious at all? Its' possible all of this was you trying exactly what you said you were trying, but it seems like your denying that you were suspicious at all, and seeming to imply anybody saying it is is being irrational. You have to agree that that absolutely seems suspicious doesn't it?

see I wasn't around for those pages so I neither know nor particularly care what they contain with regards to me

I'm here now, I'm telling you everything you need to know now

also several people have admitted I am unlikely to be mafia but then voted me anyways for being a "known liar" which is exactly that lmao

also what strands did I derail?

I may have drawn a kill

I clearly wasn't investigated or we wouldn't be having this conversation because I'd be proven

you're acting like it's this massive disruption when it really isn't lmao

so no, it's not suspicious at all, and you saying "it's suspicious" with no justification for why you find it suspicious isn't doing anything for anybody

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Awfully bold and brave to assume you can wait so long to try to sway town votes. Given most people aren't logged in at the same time or even necessarily at the end of day.

oh good heavens you're right! let me fix that:

Please someone take their vote off me! I’m innocent! See the mafia band wagon right now!

[gac3]

Well I was going to find a new candidate but I think killing Fext is more productive than not killing Fext right now. Maybe give cap a chance to use their power and revisit if they are suspicious tomorrow.

[Fext]

but do you think I'm mafia, gac?

[gac3]

but do you think I'm mafia, gac?

I feel like I've been spending all day trying to make a case that you were. Some of the evidence ended up not fitting as well but yeah. I'm still leaning Mafia.

[Rogan]

Well I was going to find a new candidate but I think killing Fext is more productive than not killing Fext right now. Maybe give cap a chance to use their power and revisit if they are suspicious tomorrow.

I want AvatarVecna to give us some input. If she thinks Fext is the killer, she can use her ability on her and we will learn something new.

Best case, we confirm a part of AVs powerset and kill a hostile AND still have a vote left to chase the wolves.

[AvatarVecna]

Since I'm probably going to die tonight, I'm going to spend the next AAAAAAA hours doing ISOs. However, while I'm doing that, I'd like to collect opinions: who do y'all think is the serial killer? Like, GTH if you had to pick one person right now to shoot over that specifically.

That's probably right, but it was the balanced option.

I start to suspect that AVs QT starts something like that:
"AV, you are The Serial Killer, a MURDERER and a member of the TOWN."

I feel this would end up getting rejected for the same reason that selecting another WW player would be rejected (as mentioned in the OP): "AvatarVecna, you are Xihirli" being the example of a role that would make things incredibly confusing to discuss. "you are SK, member of town" would be similar.

I don't trust either of you. Right now, I think you might be the killer.
As for AV, I've been trying to have them checked for some time, but to little avail.

I just wanna point out: just because nobody has stood up D2 and said "AV is town/scum, I know because I scried them" doesn't mean that nobody scried me. It could mean that I was scried, and that they don't feel like standing up quite yet - possibly because they don't want to out themselves as seer to save me from the chopping block when I'm in no actual danger of dying today.

Mind you, I don't have any reason to believe I was scried last night. But I also have no reason to believe I wasn't, and you're acting like you have reason to believe I wasn't. Care to share?

LOL

somebody tell me this is as funny to you as it is to me

lol

lmao

I'm with moonfly on that. We have at least one protection-type power on the board, maybe more.

On the one hand, I tried to bane bladescape last night. On the other hand, I got roleblocked. So that was wasted.

[gac3]

I want AvatarVecna to give us some input. If she thinks Fext is the killer, she can use her ability on her and we will learn something new.

Best case, we confirm a part of AVs powerset and kill a hostile AND still have a vote left to chase the wolves.

I'm more convinced Fext is a wolf than a serial killer but fair enough.

[AvatarVecna]

I want AvatarVecna to give us some input. If she thinks Fext is the killer, she can use her ability on her and we will learn something new.

Best case, we confirm a part of AVs powerset and kill a hostile AND still have a vote left to chase the wolves.

I've basically been skimming the game so far. I'm about to get a bit serious, since it's probably my last hurrah.

[Fext]

oh thank god somebody sensible is here

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anyways I'm curious how you view the fact that several people have commented on me probably not being mafia @gac

are they wrong and if so why do you believe they're wrong

[Rogan]

Vote Count
Captain Cap (3): Rogan, Batcathat, Supagoof
Fext (5): Gac3, Elenna, Metastachydium, Taffimai, Moonfly
Supagoof (1): Snowblaze
AvatarVecna (1): AvatarVecna
Gac3 (1): Captain Cap

Please double check this


AV, my vote for the killer would be Fext.
He said his role included the SK, but he has no tools to hunt. He refuses to share the details. At the same time, he gives us fluff and rules for his immunity.

[Fext]

what fluff lol

[Rogan]

what fluff lol

You fly, so they can't reach you night 1.

[Book Wombat]

I don't think it's you guys

the mobile version just like

really sucks

so I get super behind and then get to a PC and have to catch up on a ton of stuff all at once

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even now I still haven't caught up on today

You can "activate" the desktop version on mobile, works quite well. I think there's a button at the bottom of the site.

[Fext]

You fly, so they can't reach you night 1.

how is that fluff?

it's a direct claim of an ability

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You can "activate" the desktop version on mobile, works quite well. I think there's a button at the bottom of the site.

you might be a lifesaver

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does fluff have some kinda different definition here???

[Book Wombat]

you might be a lifesaver

*bows, but awkwardly due to body structure*

[Rogan]

how is that fluff?

it's a direct claim of an ability

The ability is "night 1 immunity". Flying to gain this immunity is the fluff regarding the ability.

[Book Wombat]

Spoiler: A table, please do not flip

Show

Player Name	Status?	Identity?/Alignment?	Powers?
AvatarVecna	Alive	???	??? Bane?? Kill (details unknown, weak)?? Dayvig (works only on Serial Killer)?? Feedback power??
Captain Cap	Alive	???	Roleblock, vote manipulation effect??
Snowblaze	Alive	???	???
Batcathat	Alive	???	???
Supagoof	Alive	???	Protection??
Taffimai	Alive	???	???
gac3	Alive	???	Weaker when others know of it??
Book Wombat	Alive	???/Survivor	Variable
fext	Alive	???	Night 1 Kill Immunity?? Mentions the Serial Killer?
moonfly7	Alive	???	???
Xihirli	Wanted: Dead or Alive	Blue Angel/Town	Roleblock Kill (only those previously roleblocked)
bladescape	Alive	(Game Show Host??)/Town	Kill?
Elenna	Alive	???	???
Metastachydium	Alive	???	???
CaoimhinTheCape	Dead	Cecil Palmer/Mafia	Mafia Kill Dawn broadcast
Rogan	Alive	???	Lie Detector (Night, other restrictions unknown)??

A Jack-of-all-Trades AV?

[Fext]

oh

to me "fluff" means "superfluous or irrelevant posts that add nothing to the discussion"

so maybe I should re-calibrate how I've been interpreting people saying I've been posting fluff because I was like "literally what are you talking about"

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presumably AV claimed something that lets them be immune to shots, no? @bookwombat

[Book Wombat]

presumably AV claimed something that lets them be immune to shots, no? @bookwombat

A limited/one-use kill protection could be one of the powers of a JoaT.

[Fext]

he was rb'd tho so wouldn't it have to be a passive

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come to think of it it would be incredibly slick of AV to claim they were attacked if they were RB'd and that caused their own kill to fail

I don't think it's likely but I'd be remiss not to mention the possibility

[Rogan]

he was rb'd tho so wouldn't it have to be a passive

She told us she used a bane (or tried to do so).
Bane = Wolvesbane = Protection from wolves.

I feel this would end up getting rejected for the same reason that selecting another WW player would be rejected (as mentioned in the OP): "AvatarVecna, you are Xihirli" being the example of a role that would make things incredibly confusing to discuss. "you are SK, member of town" would be similar.



On the one hand, I tried to bane bladescape last night. On the other hand, I got roleblocked. So that was wasted.

Yeah, that's possible. But it would be a funny thing to say (and reminds me of the game Snow mentioned, where the evil mastermind was town).

[Book Wombat]

he was rb'd tho so wouldn't it have to be a passive

Could be a one-use passive. Just a shot in the dark, not with a pistol though .

[Fext]

anyways until/unless gac speaks up it seems like everybody else is on the page of "Fext is likely SK but not likely to be Mafia" in which case the blindingly obvious course of action is just to have AV attempt to dayvig me

I don't think it should have to come to that but if y'all still living in this reality in 12 hours or so just have AV potshot me

if I'm serial killer I'll die and it'll confirm them, so that's a win/win from your point of view

[gac3]

oh thank god somebody sensible is here

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anyways I'm curious how you view the fact that several people have commented on me probably not being mafia @gac

are they wrong and if so why do you believe they're wrong

I've been making the case all day. Is there a reason I should care that other people read you differently?

[AvatarVecna]

he was rb'd tho so wouldn't it have to be a passive

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come to think of it it would be incredibly slick of AV to claim they were attacked if they were RB'd and that caused their own kill to fail

I don't think it's likely but I'd be remiss not to mention the possibility

I wanna clarify your statement: you think that a plausible scenario is

1) I attempted to use my kill power (fluffed as a gun shot), but got roleblocked.

2) I saw that I was roleblocked, and misunderstood and thought I got both NK'd and baned.

3) I do not know if a kill target is told they were unsuccessfully NK'd when the killer is roleblocked (including the fluff of that kill).

4) I do not know if the "bane" on me would protect from one kill or all kills.

5) I claim to have been targeted with two kill abilities, one of which is fluffed as a gun shot.

This seems like a very bad plan where two people could immediately call me a liar.

[Fext]

I've been making the case all day. Is there a reason I should care that other people read you differently?

I haven't been here all day and haven't seen that case

I would appreciate if you'd repeat yourself for me :)

[Elenna]

Okay, so here's a summary of what happened in case anyone is still confused.

AV claimed to have two killing powers, one of which only works on serial killers, as well as a bane and something that allowed them to survive a NK. This feels like a whole lotta powers even with the kill limits, although it might be reasonable if they're all one-shot powers. This is also probably unrelated to the Fext thing.

During the night, Xihirli roleblocked AV and was killed by blade. AV was also hit by a kill (which might be the serial killer, although I think that would be a bad decision on their part, since AV obviously wouldn't claim if they weren't immune to the SK).

This is what Fext is claiming:

• They have some sort of power that gives N1 immunity and also mentions the serial killer, for some reason. They've been reluctant to explain anything else about their abilities.
• On D1, they decided to claim to be an SK hunter, in an attempt to draw the SK kill while they were immune.
• They also decided to claim neutral for... some reason?
• They are now claiming town.

---

Personally I think that claiming to draw the SK kill makes sense and would be a good plan (if it's the truth). I don't understand what the reason for the neutral claim was, though.

Regardless, I don't think they're likely to be SK or wolf. Mostly because it would make no sense for an SK or wolf to draw attention to themselves by acting like they've done today. There was no reason for them to not stick to the original claim.

I do think they're (deliberately or not) misunderstanding many of people's comments and acting antagonistic, for example by stating that most of the playerbase isn't sensible. I'd like them to stop that, but it's unrelated to their role.

Anyways, moving my vote off Fext and onto Captain Cap, who was my top wolf read when I did a reread during the night. I promise to look at some stuff and give a post that's less IIOA soonish but I have to go make dinner now.

(Still need to take a closer look at Cap's plan but my instincts say it's not worth delaying their lynch.)

I didn't lie

I creatively stretched the truth

That doesn't matter. This isn't the kind of game where you get points for not *technically* lying. If you just imply false things, that has exactly the same effect on the game as lying, and therefore it can be put in the same bucket.

I don't think it's you guys

the mobile version just like

really sucks

so I get super behind and then get to a PC and have to catch up on a ton of stuff all at once

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even now I still haven't caught up on today

Lol yeah I just use the PC version on mobile.

I will refrain from joining those plenty of people

Why not? The narrator suggestion only implies that we should avoid sharing our role *name*. For example, if someone said "I'm Percy Jackson", that might be bad. But if they said "I can stop people from using their powers", the narrator suggestion doesn't imply anything about that. (Needless to say, neither of those is an actual claim from me.)

Now, if you don't want to share your power because it would be helpful to wolves, that's one thing. But you can't hide behind "the narrator said not to".

You've already mentioned that you were immune to night-kills (or maybe just to the serial killer?) on N1. So in any case you've already told us something about your abilities. Want to share more?

[Fext]

I wanna clarify your statement: you think that a plausible scenario is

1) I attempted to use my kill power (fluffed as a gun shot), but got roleblocked.

2) I saw that I was roleblocked, and misunderstood and thought I got both NK'd and baned.

3) I do not know if a kill target is told they were unsuccessfully NK'd when the killer is roleblocked (including the fluff of that kill).

4) I do not know if the "bane" on me would protect from one kill or all kills.

5) I claim to have been targeted with two kill abilities, one of which is fluffed as a gun shot.

This seems like a very bad plan where two people could immediately call me a liar.

I mean you could see you were RB'd and read the flip at the same time, so you'd have known you were RB'd but simply acted publicly as if you were shot twice when in fact you were shot zero times

also why would 3 ever be a thing

but I don't think it's preposterous at all to consider the possibility

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I do think they're (deliberately or not) misunderstanding many of people's comments and acting antagonistic, for example by stating that most of the playerbase isn't sensible. I'd like them to stop that

Most of the playerbase is sensible

and some level of scrutiny is certainly fair

but there's clearly a language barrier here (for example all of the "fluff" comments apparently mean nearly the opposite of what I thought they meant) and that has been leading me to believe a fair amount of the people I was talking with were, intentionally or otherwise, not thinking reasonably from a towny point of view - now that that's cleared up, I expect that will happen a lot less

feel free to call me out if it doesn't

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Why not? The narrator suggestion only implies that we should avoid sharing our role *name*. For example, if someone said "I'm Percy Jackson", that might be bad. But if they said "I can stop people from using their powers", the narrator suggestion doesn't imply anything about that. (Needless to say, neither of those is an actual claim from me.)

Now, if you don't want to share your power because it would be helpful to wolves, that's one thing. But you can't hide behind "the narrator said not to".

You've already mentioned that you were immune to night-kills (or maybe just to the serial killer?) on N1. So in any case you've already told us something about your abilities. Want to share more?

I will continue to refrain from saying more until it is relevant

[Taffimai]

T

Fext as killer or mafia?

Fext for flailing and because the main reason I didn't want to vote them is gone. Mafia and town both want to lynch the serial killer, so a potential wolf with the ability to find them out is worth keeping around, but that's not the case anymore. Going from "Woah, the day ended without me voting? How did that happen?" to firing off posts like a madman right after I explain why absentee players should get culled on principle could be funny coincidence, or a confused townie whose clever plan didn't pan out, or someone who really doesn't want to get culled.

Add to that going from gleefully calling out AV for maybe-possibly having lied over having an anti-anti-serial-killer power to being downright affronted that Meta would want to lynch him for lying. Add to that salty posts like these:

anyways if you guys wanna let the scum throw everything away and chase after a silly policy of "lynch all liars" be my guest, frankly not really a huge fan of the site format here anyways compared to where my first game was

Please someone take their vote off me! I’m innocent! See the mafia band wagon right now!

...and it no longer matters whether they're town, wolf or serial killer. They're in need of a nap.

[AvatarVecna]

I mean you could see you were RB'd and read the flip at the same time, so you'd have known you were RB'd but simply acted publicly as if you were shot twice when in fact you were shot zero times

also why would 3 ever be a thing

but I don't think it's preposterous at all to consider the possibility

I mean, the story I'm actually going with is that I'm staring at my QT, seeing that I received the fluff for a kill-power that failed to affect me. Sooooooo yeah it's kinda believable to me that if I tried to kill somebody and failed, they'd see "somebody tried to LEVER you but it failed" or whatever. And if I have reason to believe that somebody else saw "somebody tried to LEVER you but failed", it'd be stupid of me to publicly claim that somebody tried to LEVER me too. Today when I stood up and said "somebody tried to shoot me but it failed" and somebody else had stood up and said "that's weird because somebody else tried to shoot me", I'm screwed. I don't make that claim if I have even a small suspicion that somebody else got to see the fluff text for my failed kill.

And all of that is leaving aside the other person in this scenario who could call me out as a liar. It's just a very silly idea.