Upick 2: Electric Boogaloo

[AvatarVecna]

The list cannot contain all of the living wolves because if you are town, I know a wolf isn't on there.

I think I've missed something. So, since I'm stupid, can you walk me through the explanation for why me being town means Rogan is lying? Cuz I'm pretty convinced at this point that Rogan is town.

[Elenna]

They quotes their whole role text including name at the end of the last page. So unless it's a lie...

Oh I did miss that, yeah.

You know, I was gonna just like enter thread and be all "They're both town you numbnuts." but this is wrecking ball version.

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Cap and Gac contains 1+ wolf btw.

Would probably not be surprised if Elanna is howling too.

I'm confused. If you think Rogan is town then I can't be wolf. Unless you think he's wrong about/misunderstanding his power somehow.

And I'm saying it can't be bloody true I says. If AV is Town then Elena or Snow (I'm leaning Snow) is 100% a wolf. I was trying to narrow it down before I mentioned it.

More info please.

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Argh ninjas.

[AvatarVecna]

I wish I could confirm this, but I think it would not work. Investigative is slower than kill. So I will probably be too dead to gain a new power usage.

That being said, your suggestion is not something I would go for, sorry. It might work, but it would add yet another person into the mix who has to be trusted. I would prefer public statements.

---

Also, I am not sure if I should join another Mafia game anytime soon. Both the last game and this one had some major conflicts, which I hate. I don't mind getting fooled or losing, but I can't stand it when it stops to be a fun game and starts to get personal.

Again, AvatarVecna, I am sorry if you feel like I mistreated you. I didn't mean to attack you personally. I thought you were a wolf up until you actually did the forbidden move.

It's not your fault, you didn't do anything wrong. I've just got an awful temper and sometimes I'm too **** to contain it. Don't let me keep you away from things. >.<

[gac3]

I was given a quote from the wolf chat to signal that I could read what they were saying. Only four people could have reasonably came up with the quote. Me, you, xi, elenna, and snow.

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Is that what I said? I said if you aren't a wolf. Snow or Elenna are.

Did you skip this post?

[Elenna]

I was given a quote from the wolf chat to signal that I could read what they were saying. Only four people could have reasonably came up with the quote. Me, you, xi, elenna, and snow.

Maybe I'm just too tired but I don't understand what this means at all. You saw a quote that someone said in the wolf chat? How? Is that your power? Why do you think only the people you listed could say that quote? Maybe the last question depends on what the quote is. Can you tell us what it is?

Also, I am not sure if I should join another Mafia game anytime soon. Both the last game and this one had some major conflicts, which I hate. I don't mind getting fooled or losing, but I can't stand it when it stops to be a fun game and starts to get personal.

Honestly, same. I don't feel like major personal arguments happen all that often, for what that's worth. But given the last two games I understand if you want to leave.

Anyways, bed now.

[AvatarVecna]

I was given a quote from the wolf chat to signal that I could read what they were saying. Only four people could have reasonably came up with the quote. Me, you, xi, elenna, and snow.

Did you skip this post?

Ah, I didn't realize that was the full extent of your power claim, I thought it was referencing something previous that I'd missed. Since you've already publicly-claimed to have access to scumchat (at least in some capacity), they're going to be a lot more careful about what they say in there anyway (at least until you're dead), so could we get the full quote please? It would help us figure out if you or Rogan is lying/mistaken?

[gac3]

More info to come when I'm on break. But now that I feel confirmed in AV or Rogan, I can quit with the ruse.

Book is a wolf and either Snow or Elenna but I'm leaning towards Snow.

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Full honesty g coming in the next hour. Or at least as full as I can get with a 10 minute break.

[AvatarVecna]

Fakeclaim retracted, I guess. Not really anything useful I can do anyway but at least not breaking the rules out of spite.

[Rogan]

It's not your fault, you didn't do anything wrong. I've just got an awful temper and sometimes I'm too **** to contain it. Don't let me keep you away from things. >.<

Thanks for saying that. Still, it feels like I am a magnet for trouble when it comes to this game.

Also, the fact that I was (wrongful) getting wolf reads from multiple people seems to imply I simply suck at reading people AND presenting myself the right way.
Too much enthusiasm coupled with not enough experience, I guess...

And I should also mention I put too much energy into the game. I didn't sleep tonight and it's 9:00am now in my timezone. I don't need to work, so it's not a huge problem, but it's still bad

(It also feels like I am not very helpful for the game right now. I only have a vague idea of the things going on besides our conflict)

[bladescape]

Gac

Sheepable read.

[AvatarVecna]

Thanks for saying that. Still, it feels like I am a magnet for trouble when it comes to this game.

Also, the fact that I was (wrongful) getting wolf reads from multiple people seems to imply I simply suck at reading people AND presenting myself the right way.
Too much enthusiasm coupled with not enough experience, I guess...

And I should also mention I put too much energy into the game. I didn't sleep tonight and it's 9:00am now in my timezone. I don't need to work, so it's not a huge problem, but it's still bad

(It also feels like I am not very helpful for the game right now. I only have a vague idea of the things going on besides our conflict)

I'm kinda doing the same, as far as sleep goes. WW tends to just eat up my life.

Reading people is hard work. I'm still only vaguely okayish at it, and I've been doing this awhile. Enthusiasm is fine.

...yeah, I have basically no read on anybody except you, Elenna, and my two townclears. That doesn't mean work can't get done, though. The questions are powerful.

...so what do you think of if we got two of them? Or at least could guarantee one?

[Elenna]

And I should also mention I put too much energy into the game. I didn't sleep tonight and it's 9:00am now in my timezone. I don't need to work, so it's not a huge problem, but it's still bad

(It also feels like I am not very helpful for the game right now. I only have a vague idea of the things going on besides our conflict)

I mean, I just spent 3+ hours trying to ISO you, it's now 3 am, and I actually do have work tomorrow. So at least you're not alone in putting too much energy into this. And I'm not even certain of my conclusion anymore, if only because AV is town-reading you and I'm town-reading AV.

Anyways, actually bed now. Probably won't have time to take a detailed look at anything else before EOD, unfortunately. Looking forward to seeing gac's explanation when I wake up.

[gac3]

Gac

Sheepable read.

What does sheep able read mean?

[Rogan]

More info to come when I'm on break. But now that I feel confirmed in AV or Rogan, I can quit with the ruse.

Book is a wolf and either Snow or Elenna but I'm leaning towards Snow.

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Full honesty g coming in the next hour. Or at least as full as I can get with a 10 minute break.

Okay, so let's assume this is the truth... Either my power is unreliable on its own, or one of Elenna and Snow has a power that can fool it. Presumably, this power would work on every investigation power. (My guess, at least).

Also, is there any way to be sure gac is telling the truth?

Can someone collect the different action and result claims, to help getting an overview?

[Batcathat]

Wow. Lots of things happening. Between the serial killer discussion and the... well, everything else, I feel like I don't even know where to start. I should have time to ISO someone before EOD but right now I'm not sure who.

Good to see emotions seems to be calming down, at least. Lying and backstabbing is all well and good, but it's a shame if people actually get upset for real because of the game.

[Rogan]

I'm kinda doing the same, as far as sleep goes. WW tends to just eat up my life.

Reading people is hard work. I'm still only vaguely okayish at it, and I've been doing this awhile. Enthusiasm is fine.

...yeah, I have basically no read on anybody except you, Elenna, and my two townclears. That doesn't mean work can't get done, though. The questions are powerful.

...so what do you think of if we got two of them? Or at least could guarantee one?

This would certainly help. You need the exact power name, right?

[AvatarVecna]

This would certainly help. You need the exact power name, right?

I need to provide the correct name and the correct targeting information (and whatever else the power would need me to provide).

This also means we can ask whatever questions, since the other person can answer the question we would want to ask. Or...however we wanna do that, anyway.

[gac3]

Sorry Rogan. I lied. I'm a necromancer. I can provide full quotes after work if desired but for now you get the quick version

I have one and only one power. Access to the dead chat.

I told Cape when he died that I was a neutral and that he should help me with my power. All I would need is a single name each night. I told him I was the person from iZombie and that each night I can pick one person and if they die that night, I get to eat their brain fresh and get a single use of one of their powers. This was all, utter rubbish.

I knew this would be a long con but I didn't see how else to effectively use my power, especially when the first death was a wolf. I wasn't even going to come forward yet but this whole mess with AV apparently being a townie and Rogans lie made me feel confident to come forward.

Cape fed me barely anything at first. He said it would be end of night before I got a name and I wasn't sure I could trust it even once I got it. The first name I was given for the wolf kill, Elenna. Then it changed to Avatar Vecna. Made them my purple votes in a plan to try to signal the wolves that they could message me and manipulate my vote. As the deal was I vote on a pro wolf wagon in exchange for these names.

They didn't catch on so I asked Cape if there was a "no incriminating quote" I could take word for word from their chat to draw their attention. He gave me the quote about how in Red Atlantic Cruise, we weren't wolves, just town with extra win condition. The quote was true and I checked Cape against the list to make sure he didn't just say it. Only five of us were spies in that game and in this game. Me, xi, aV, Snow, and Elena. So I assumed it was Xi, with Snow as my backup. Then Xi died. So it's snow unless wolves wanting to kill Elenna was a lie.

Then I was given the code word Absolutely because wolves finally figured it out. So I used it a bunch to make sure they didn't miss it. I was going to wait things out. I genuinely thought Fext was a wolf because I concluded that he would want AV dead. Then when AV announced their near death, I trusted that name.

Then it was quiet until this Rogan nonsense started. I asked the wolves publically through code and Cape privately if I should do anything about Rogan. That I had a plan for undermining him. If they said yes I should, I was going to put myself. If they said no, I was going to see what happened because why would Wolf!Rogan do that when I know AV isn't a wolf.

Then Cape even went as far as telling me to be like book and just grab some popcorn. So I assume book is also a wolf.

[Snowblaze]

I’ve read everything. Correct me if I’m wrong:

Rogan claims my night one POE of AV/Captain Cap/Supagoof/gac/Book Wombat/Taffimai (plus Xihirli/bladescape) contains all wolves.

gac3 claims they can see into wolfchat, and that based on what they saw they think Book Wombat is a wolf, and that either Elenna or me is a wolf, but probably me.

So, uh, these directly contradict each other. Plus Book Wombat is the uncounterclaimed Survivor and can only be a wolf with exactly Captain Cap as a partner. Which means that either gac is lying or the wolfteam is exactly Elenna/Captain Cap/Book Wombat.

Yeah, gac3 is just a liar. I can’t make any sense of their motivations but given I was hard wolfreading their posts on my catchup I’m guessing it’s nothing good.

[gac3]

Oh and Cape told me revealing role names was good for me and the wolves.

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Also Cape seemed utterly flabbergasted but unconcerned by Rogan v AV. Unsure what their later thoughts are. They went to bed. But I feel Rogan is more likely town than wolf. But why on earth would Town!Rogan have this bloody list.

[Snowblaze]

What. I just...

This makes...

No sense...

Error: Snowblaze.exe has ceased to function. Change to a universe in which logical reasoning is possible to reboot.

[gac3]

What. I just...

This makes...

No sense...

Error: Snowblaze.exe has ceased to function. Change to a universe in which logical reasoning is possible to reboot.

Please explain what makes no sense?

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Besides the fact that I'm a little manic right now and i was in a rush and therefore may have made less sense than I would like.

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But bloody Gac3. I'm the bloody necromancer and I approve this message.

[AvatarVecna]

Cape fed me barely anything at first. He said it would be end of night before I got a name and I wasn't sure I could trust it even once I got it. The first name I was given for the wolf kill, Elenna. Then it changed to Avatar Vecna. Made them my purple votes in a plan to try to signal the wolves that they could message me and manipulate my vote. As the deal was I vote on a pro wolf wagon in exchange for these names.

So, you were told by Cao that he would give you a name, but that the name couldn't be trusted. And based on you trusting that name, Rogan must be lying. Your plan is dependent on trustworthy information coming from a dead wolf who knows that a town necromancer is a possibility. And that's assuming you're telling the truth.

[Snowblaze]

Please explain what makes no sense?

Your claim?

Like. I understand the individual words. But the implications are just.

Why would Caoimhin ever give you a message from wolfchat which could have only come from specific people?

How does the popcorn thing make BW a wolf, and how does the uncounterclaimed Survivor make any sense as a wolf?

Why does your claim directly contradict Rogan’s?

[gac3]

So, you were told by Cao that he would give you a name, but that the name couldn't be trusted. And based on you trusting that name, Rogan must be lying. Your plan is dependent on trustworthy information coming from a dead wolf who knows that a town necromancer is a possibility. And that's assuming you're telling the truth.

Cape said it could be trusted. I say it couldn't because he's a bloody wolf. They are all liars. It's in their nature. But between the fact you got hit with a kill and your rage quit, I have sense decided to trust your name and half trust Elenna. But if you aren't a wolf, snow or Elenna is.

[Snowblaze]

Cape said it could be trusted. I say it couldn't because he's a bloody wolf. They are all liars. It's in their nature. But between the fact you got hit with a kill and your rage quit, I have sense decided to trust your name and half trust Elenna. But if you aren't a wolf, snow or Elenna is.

And why couldn't Caoimhin have been telling the truth about the nightkills but lying about the quote?

[gac3]

So, you were told by Cao that he would give you a name, but that the name couldn't be trusted. And based on you trusting that name, Rogan must be lying. Your plan is dependent on trustworthy information coming from a dead wolf who knows that a town necromancer is a possibility. And that's assuming you're telling the truth.

Then bloody red name me and see for yourself.

Your claim?

Like. I understand the individual words. But the implications are just.

Why would Caoimhin ever give you a message from wolfchat which could have only come from specific people?

How does the popcorn thing make BW a wolf, and how does the uncounterclaimed Survivor make any sense as a wolf?

Why does your claim directly contradict Rogan’s?

Because nobody else on the list would have said that. And Cape wasn't in the game so he didn't realize. I pointed out that that meant you or xi had to be a wolf and they said

Yeah, I was worried that would give you some information on a Mafia teammate. As long as things go well, it won't matter and we'll keep working together.

Though, you also know Elenna is a safe lynch from our side. Hopefully we'll be able to get the SK soon and there won't be non-Wolf kills going around

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And why couldn't Caoimhin have been telling the truth about the nightkills but lying about the quote?

Why would Cape give me some pedantic quote about a game he wasn't a part of if it wasn't from the wolves? To try to convince me they were actually telling me who to vote for?

[Snowblaze]

To try and convince you that the wolves were in a certain group of players that didn't have wolves in.

[gac3]

The quote from the wolves:

"Also we weren’t groups of wolves in Red Atlantic Cruise, we were town with additional win conditions."

This is (I think) in relation to the game you were discussing. If you mention this it'll definitely draw the attention of the Mafia, I don't know if they'll suspect you for that (but why would you post what they're saying and that's it?)

[Rogan]

Error: Snowblaze.exe has ceased to function. Change to a universe in which logical reasoning is possible to reboot.

Yes please!

While my confidence in my own reads is at rock bottom right now, I think gac is lying here. His explanation includes enough things I have guessed to make me like it, but this feels so easy to fake. I think there have been enough situations this game to show how to manipulate me.
Gac also warns me about claiming, since this would help the wolves.
I think I should still take this warning serious enough to wait with the full reveal until the night starts. (Assuming both AV and I are alive to take advantage of the power)

Another thing I noticed but don't know how to parse:

Moonfly seemed very insisting that I die / get lynched.